The combat in this game looks to be similar to Vindictus, actually. My only comment on it was that due to the pacing and over shoulder camera things might get crazy with melee focused characters. Also, they better have a good lore reason for how the Archer has infinite arrows. Like, even saying they can magically conjure arrows as part of the class would be good enough. Otherwise the game creators should probably write "Archers come with a quiver of holding that contains billions of arrows!"
Originally posted by FlyByKnight Is this an MMO or a 1-4 player action RPG? Wake me up when there are 10-20 players doing all that chop saki fighting and it doesn't feel/look like you got sprayed directly in the eyes with mace.
That did actually wake me up. All I've seen up to this point is 1 person questing with maybe 1 or 2 people. I want to know how the game handles on regular people rigs with a bunch of stuff going on. So was all that fps drop (towards the end) from the capture card or the game?
Forgive me for being a skeptic, but Asian MMORPGs feel like an after thought when they are "ported" to US. We're always 1-2 years behind on the updates, there's never any optimization on things that are "wrong", the translations are bad, and they usually stay that way. That's what I've experienced.
The PVP looks fundamentally skill based which is good.
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Looks really nice. Looks as fun as RaiderZ was, but as long as it isn't as limited or small as that game or as instanced as Vindictus then this could be a real winner.
Originally posted by Braindome Looks really nice. Looks as fun as RaiderZ was, but as long as it isn't as limited or small as that game or as instanced as Vindictus then this could be a real winner.
Wanna hear something even cooler?
The entire game is seamless, even dungeons are noninstanced (there probably are some instanced parts but only few)
Except for that new housing which they will probably change back or make a compromises due to terrible feedback
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
As long as i can turn off all that camera shake and flash then it'll be fine.
At the same time, i'm really tired of seeing solo combat in trailers and previews. I'd like to hear and see how group content works in this game and how classes interact with each other. There is a video showing off class class buffing but i'd like to see that expanded on.
Couldn't be turned off in CBT1.
I seriously doubt that you'll be able to turn it off - as that is the "style" of combat they went for - more of an arcade fighter style.
As a fighting game fan, I understand the combo - flash and pause system that fighting games utilize (especially when it comes to frame counting) - but I am still not convinced that this is necessary in a MMORPG.
I sort of doubt that there is ANY reason to do this (as frame counting in Black Desert is pointless, it's not a fighting game) - so yes I can see it as a huge turnoff.
The facebook team for BD has stated that a camera shake slider WILL be implemented. So we will see.
As long as i can turn off all that camera shake and flash then it'll be fine.
At the same time, i'm really tired of seeing solo combat in trailers and previews. I'd like to hear and see how group content works in this game and how classes interact with each other. There is a video showing off class class buffing but i'd like to see that expanded on.
Couldn't be turned off in CBT1.
I seriously doubt that you'll be able to turn it off - as that is the "style" of combat they went for - more of an arcade fighter style.
As a fighting game fan, I understand the combo - flash and pause system that fighting games utilize (especially when it comes to frame counting) - but I am still not convinced that this is necessary in a MMORPG.
I sort of doubt that there is ANY reason to do this (as frame counting in Black Desert is pointless, it's not a fighting game) - so yes I can see it as a huge turnoff.
The facebook team for BD has stated that a camera shake slider WILL be implemented. So we will see.
I srsly need to hype up the thread called videos from cbt2 so people watch them instead of this - YES YOU CAN TURN IT OFF
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
After watching combat videos involving PvP on both a massive level and small team level this game looks like it will devolve into a giant chaotic mess when dealing with the sieges. The fights appear a lot more enjoyable when the size of the opposing teams is a bit more limited, such as in 1v1 to small skirmish matches between four to six players. This seems especially to be the case for the ranged characters who are having to use a reticle lock on system. There's going to be no way that person can focus fire anyone if there's a ton of people running to and fro, with the games auto lock constantly bouncing between the different targets.
The key to good massive pvp is to make sure that a player still feels as if his choice matters as to what target he/she is picking to attack, whether the game is an MMORPG or a FPS like Unreal Tournament / Counter Strike. The combat in this game appears as if that kind of sensation is easily lost when a great number of people are involved. A good example can be seen in the siege video someone had posted above, where the Archer player just dies while a Giant is AOE spamming in a strait line across the field. That giant player isn't making any kind of tactical decision: He's given UP on making tactical decisions and is just AOEing because at least it guarantees he is killing something or someone.
As long as i can turn off all that camera shake and flash then it'll be fine.
At the same time, i'm really tired of seeing solo combat in trailers and previews. I'd like to hear and see how group content works in this game and how classes interact with each other. There is a video showing off class class buffing but i'd like to see that expanded on.
I concur the camera was fubar.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
After watching combat videos involving PvP on both a massive level and small team level this game looks like it will devolve into a giant chaotic mess when dealing with the sieges. The fights appear a lot more enjoyable when the size of the opposing teams is a bit more limited, such as in 1v1 to small skirmish matches between four to six players. This seems especially to be the case for the ranged characters who are having to use a reticle lock on system. There's going to be no way that person can focus fire anyone if there's a ton of people running to and fro, with the games auto lock constantly bouncing between the different targets.
The key to good massive pvp is to make sure that a player still feels as if his choice matters as to what target he/she is picking to attack, whether the game is an MMORPG or a FPS like Unreal Tournament / Counter Strike. The combat in this game appears as if that kind of sensation is easily lost when a great number of people are involved. A good example can be seen in the siege video someone had posted above, where the Archer player just dies while a Giant is AOE spamming in a strait line across the field. That giant player isn't making any kind of tactical decision: He's given UP on making tactical decisions and is just AOEing because at least it guarantees he is killing something or someone.
I'm not agree with you. In fact you are right if we talk about FPS. But in mass melee combat, no matter you are mage, ranger or fighter you play not just to kill enemies but to support your side in siege, and it is a total chaos. In Lineage 2 and here it is total fun too.
Let's hope so. It would be a shame if the entire thing turns into a guild wars 2 zerg fest every time a castle siege takes place.
10 slots on the toolbar. not bad. But as I watched this I realized it's just Street Fighter stuff in an MMORPG. There was an earlier video that showed a guy with a sword doing attack moves and I thought it had more frames per animation and not so much of the HIFuckinYah! of this. They made the game look realistic and then add this stuff. I agree with earlier poster, doesn't mesh
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
It's very twitchy, and my carpel tunnel already hurts from watching it.
However, I have to say my first thought in watching the start of the video was a *sigh*. Here's this guy jumping around like a monkey with a sword, slicing up a couple of orcs... and another orc is just calmly walking along paying no attention. Even after the character attacks him, there's another one further down the road calmly walking towards the battle, having no reaction at all.
I'm just tired of stupid AI.
If you were walking along, and a couple of people started a fight near you, would you not either run for cover or join in the fight? Is it too much to ask that aggro is based on LOS, and that if an NPC sees one of their friends fighting something, maybe they would join in the help, or run off to get reinforcements? Is that *REALLY* so complex?
If i want action based combat, id hook up my PS2 and load up some Devil May Cry. Taking a huge pass on this title. Dont want this type of combat in my MMORPGs.
Originally posted by Archlyte 10 slots on the toolbar. not bad. But as I watched this I realized it's just Street Fighter stuff in an MMORPG. There was an earlier video that showed a guy with a sword doing attack moves and I thought it had more frames per animation and not so much of the HIFuckinYah! of this. They made the game look realistic and then add this stuff. I agree with earlier poster, doesn't mesh
You see some slots, but in fact you can use all the skills your character knows, and they can be many, skill tree here is enormous. You can use the other skills with hotkeys and key combinations. So slots are only for skills that is hard to make with key combination. Devil May Cry combat is poor compared to that here. And we are talking only for combat skills.
And if you want, you may not use skills at all, but to fight only with hits like combat in Mount & Blade. If you hit your enemy sideward you make more damage, if you hit him from behind you make even more damage, and if he is wounded, he starts to move slowly.
Initially the idea of skills here was to use them to finish the enemy, but most players use them like they do in every other game, so dev removed the skill latency that was implemented in first beta to make the combat faster.
I will say it again, it is not a skill based combat, just most people still have no idea how to play the game. For example if your warrior use a shield, I can hit him aside or from behind and kill him, even if I don't use a skill, so the combat is dimension oriented.
The movements are ridiculously fast and lack realism in the animations. Cartoony motion in a realistic figure looks fake and jarring to me. The rest of the game looks amazing from what I have seen (even the fishing), but this combat is unappealing to me in the format.
May be deep and strategic, but looks like Street Fighter, with P2 (orcs) having no one at the controls.
MMORPG players are often like Hobbits: They don't like Adventures
A great game ruined by it's combat system. I'm not fan of locked animations. I like having the freedom to cancel at any time. Some MMOs do this, but not for every skill. As this video shows, it seems to be for every skill, making it an arcade Tekken-style combat.
I for one is liking this combat. The more control i have over my character the better imo.
A.I. does look a bit poor though.
While I've been trying to avoid it, I keep drawing parallels to the AI in Guild Wars 2. Also I've been saying for a while now that AI in MMORPGs is practically non-existent. Most of the time it's a super simple behavior algorithm that makes the enemy approach a target until in range and then just engage a repeatable attack pattern, which works in games like EverQuest and World of Warcraft, but it doesn't work too well in action oriented games.
Originally posted by Archlyte 10 slots on the toolbar. not bad. But as I watched this I realized it's just Street Fighter stuff in an MMORPG. There was an earlier video that showed a guy with a sword doing attack moves and I thought it had more frames per animation and not so much of the HIFuckinYah! of this. They made the game look realistic and then add this stuff. I agree with earlier poster, doesn't mesh
You see some slots, but in fact you can use all the skills your character knows, and they can be many, skill tree here is enormous. You can use the other skills with hotkeys and key combinations. So slots are only for skills that is hard to make with key combination. Devil May Cry combat is poor compared to that here. And we are talking only for combat skills.
And if you want, you may not use skills at all, but to fight only with hits like combat in Mount & Blade. If you hit your enemy sideward you make more damage, if you hit him from behind you make even more damage, and if he is wounded, he starts to move slowly.
Initially the idea of skills here was to use them to finish the enemy, but most players use them like they do in every other game, so dev removed the skill latency that was implemented in first beta to make the combat faster.
I will say it again, it is not a skill based combat, just most people still have no idea how to play the game. For example if your warrior use a shield, I can hit him aside or from behind and kill him, even if I don't use a skill, so the combat is dimension oriented.
Hotkeys, slots and skill trees aside wouldn't you want your "combat" skilled based? And if for some reason they did take the skill out of combat for godsakes don't do it just to speed it up. Ill have to stick with my opinion that the combat looks detached from the world and comes across as very streetfighter like complete with the annoying flashes and sound effects.The world and the GFX in this game call for a more mature, realistic style of combat at least IMO. Im not going to comment on the AI of the mobs which was nonexistent im hoping its just because game isn't finished yet and they will add it later.
So... am I the only one wanting to see a Valkyrie combat video? We've only seen the warrior, giant, archer, and that crazy spell caster that is like a miniature smog monster.
Pearl Abyss knows the A.I. is bad, they are about to change it to next beta, they werent really testing AI in this session - the company is actually trying stuff one at a time as can be seen and is really keen on players feedback
About people disliking the combat is srsly something I dont get - this is much more action oriented and harder than every other tab target skill based combat, I really dont know how to please you guys - seems like you hate pretty much every kind of combat Sure it may look easy because of the bad AI and the fact that dmg was increased while mobs health remained the same from last beta - another thing which WILL be changed making the game much harder as before
Someone already said it, there is tons of skills which all you can use, slotting only the hard ones: citing from steparu review lvl 30 or so:
Q = Restore Mana Depending on Dark Spirit Stacks Q + Spacebar = Defense Buff LMB = Normal Attack RMB = Pew Pew Dark Orbs Attack Shift+LMB = Dash Attack Shift+RMB = Chain Attack Shift+WASD = Blink Shift+WASD 2x = Blink followed by tumble explosion. LMBxRMB alternate then Q = Fast way to recover Mana Shift+Spacebar = Convert Mana into HP Shift+LMB to RMB = Dash Attack Followed by Kick F = Kick W+F = Power Knock Back D+F = Instant Knock Back D+RMB = Large Dark Orbs AorD+LMB = Side Slash W+RMB = Blink Strike LMB+RMB = Kamehameha (Obviously not the real name) LMB+RMB Hold = Power Kamehameha LMB+RMB to Spacebar = Absorb Kamehameha D+E = Small Group Fear W+E = AoE Group Fear (Forgot if this was quick key) Plus the other random combos that I forgot.
Honestly I cant wait to try this combo system - its much much better than what AoC does (or ESO..or WildStar, or ArcheAge..beat it)
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Comments
That did actually wake me up. All I've seen up to this point is 1 person questing with maybe 1 or 2 people. I want to know how the game handles on regular people rigs with a bunch of stuff going on. So was all that fps drop (towards the end) from the capture card or the game?
Forgive me for being a skeptic, but Asian MMORPGs feel like an after thought when they are "ported" to US. We're always 1-2 years behind on the updates, there's never any optimization on things that are "wrong", the translations are bad, and they usually stay that way. That's what I've experienced.
The PVP looks fundamentally skill based which is good.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Wanna hear something even cooler?
The entire game is seamless, even dungeons are noninstanced (there probably are some instanced parts but only few)
Except for that new housing which they will probably change back or make a compromises due to terrible feedback
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
The facebook team for BD has stated that a camera shake slider WILL be implemented. So we will see.
I srsly need to hype up the thread called videos from cbt2 so people watch them instead of this - YES YOU CAN TURN IT OFF
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
After watching combat videos involving PvP on both a massive level and small team level this game looks like it will devolve into a giant chaotic mess when dealing with the sieges. The fights appear a lot more enjoyable when the size of the opposing teams is a bit more limited, such as in 1v1 to small skirmish matches between four to six players. This seems especially to be the case for the ranged characters who are having to use a reticle lock on system. There's going to be no way that person can focus fire anyone if there's a ton of people running to and fro, with the games auto lock constantly bouncing between the different targets.
The key to good massive pvp is to make sure that a player still feels as if his choice matters as to what target he/she is picking to attack, whether the game is an MMORPG or a FPS like Unreal Tournament / Counter Strike. The combat in this game appears as if that kind of sensation is easily lost when a great number of people are involved. A good example can be seen in the siege video someone had posted above, where the Archer player just dies while a Giant is AOE spamming in a strait line across the field. That giant player isn't making any kind of tactical decision: He's given UP on making tactical decisions and is just AOEing because at least it guarantees he is killing something or someone.
I concur the camera was fubar.
Let's hope so. It would be a shame if the entire thing turns into a guild wars 2 zerg fest every time a castle siege takes place.
It look pretty.
It's very twitchy, and my carpel tunnel already hurts from watching it.
However, I have to say my first thought in watching the start of the video was a *sigh*. Here's this guy jumping around like a monkey with a sword, slicing up a couple of orcs... and another orc is just calmly walking along paying no attention. Even after the character attacks him, there's another one further down the road calmly walking towards the battle, having no reaction at all.
I'm just tired of stupid AI.
If you were walking along, and a couple of people started a fight near you, would you not either run for cover or join in the fight? Is it too much to ask that aggro is based on LOS, and that if an NPC sees one of their friends fighting something, maybe they would join in the help, or run off to get reinforcements? Is that *REALLY* so complex?
The movements are ridiculously fast and lack realism in the animations. Cartoony motion in a realistic figure looks fake and jarring to me. The rest of the game looks amazing from what I have seen (even the fishing), but this combat is unappealing to me in the format.
May be deep and strategic, but looks like Street Fighter, with P2 (orcs) having no one at the controls.
I for one is liking this combat. The more control i have over my character the better imo.
A.I. does look a bit poor though.
While I've been trying to avoid it, I keep drawing parallels to the AI in Guild Wars 2. Also I've been saying for a while now that AI in MMORPGs is practically non-existent. Most of the time it's a super simple behavior algorithm that makes the enemy approach a target until in range and then just engage a repeatable attack pattern, which works in games like EverQuest and World of Warcraft, but it doesn't work too well in action oriented games.
Hotkeys, slots and skill trees aside wouldn't you want your "combat" skilled based? And if for some reason they did take the skill out of combat for godsakes don't do it just to speed it up. Ill have to stick with my opinion that the combat looks detached from the world and comes across as very streetfighter like complete with the annoying flashes and sound effects.The world and the GFX in this game call for a more mature, realistic style of combat at least IMO. Im not going to comment on the AI of the mobs which was nonexistent im hoping its just because game isn't finished yet and they will add it later.
Pearl Abyss knows the A.I. is bad, they are about to change it to next beta, they werent really testing AI in this session - the company is actually trying stuff one at a time as can be seen and is really keen on players feedback
About people disliking the combat is srsly something I dont get - this is much more action oriented and harder than every other tab target skill based combat, I really dont know how to please you guys - seems like you hate pretty much every kind of combat
Sure it may look easy because of the bad AI and the fact that dmg was increased while mobs health remained the same from last beta - another thing which WILL be changed making the game much harder as before
Someone already said it, there is tons of skills which all you can use, slotting only the hard ones: citing from steparu review lvl 30 or so:
Q = Restore Mana Depending on Dark Spirit Stacks
Q + Spacebar = Defense Buff
LMB = Normal Attack
RMB = Pew Pew Dark Orbs Attack
Shift+LMB = Dash Attack
Shift+RMB = Chain Attack
Shift+WASD = Blink
Shift+WASD 2x = Blink followed by tumble explosion.
LMBxRMB alternate then Q = Fast way to recover Mana
Shift+Spacebar = Convert Mana into HP
Shift+LMB to RMB = Dash Attack Followed by Kick
F = Kick
W+F = Power Knock Back
D+F = Instant Knock Back
D+RMB = Large Dark Orbs
AorD+LMB = Side Slash
W+RMB = Blink Strike
LMB+RMB = Kamehameha (Obviously not the real name)
LMB+RMB Hold = Power Kamehameha
LMB+RMB to Spacebar = Absorb Kamehameha
D+E = Small Group Fear
W+E = AoE Group Fear (Forgot if this was quick key)
Plus the other random combos that I forgot.
Honestly I cant wait to try this combo system - its much much better than what AoC does (or ESO..or WildStar, or ArcheAge..beat it)
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Personally think it looks like a japanese console game that never gets released in the west. Was interested in this game until i saw that vid.
And seriously, what is with those slot machine sound effects?
You should see other videos of ACTUAL gameplay, itl blow your mind off
I agree that the official combat gameplay is completely off - over the top effects, weird sound and graphics
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them