Please people let them finish the game !

apanz3r

Please people let them finish the game  and stop spending on fancy 3d models which you can anyway aquire in game.

As long as you spend money for promises they have 0 incentive  to deliver the game. It may be even counter productive for them to change the existing  status-quo.

I spent also a lot of money to support them before the 20 mil mark to see the game but now they are becoming like EA.

grndzro

It is a bit premature to be criticizing SC for delaying production in order to milk the money as much as they can. The timetable for the game's release remains next year.

They dont just split up all the teams to tackle each goal as the funding comes in.

The game is set to be released in a year. By then they will have enough funding to start another project. With the level of quality and detail they are putting into everything I just cant see greed being a factor here.

You cant really blame them for grabbing all the funding they can. It is being given freely by people because they really want this game to be a reality. The more bells and whistles the better. The better the GFX the better. The more hype the better. The more funding the better.

This game will revoltionize the entire industry. Everyone should see that.

grndzro

Have fun with those ideas.

With your logic a game that cost 20 million to make should give the game away for free once they recoup their investment.

Since you seem to know how much Star citizen will cost why dont you break it down for me.

Keep in mind both Star wars the old republic, and Elder scrolls online both cost 200 million to produce.

 

Hell there is no game out there that you could compare star citizen to.

What game has the graphics of SC? The complexity?

The circumstances behind SC are different from any game out there.

Brenelael

Hundreds of people played the DFM at PAX-East and no one walked away dissatisfied. Yeah they are just raking in money and not doing a thing.

 

Bren

Cabbagehead664

Originally posted by Manzes

Originally posted by Brenelael

Hundreds of people played the DFM at PAX-East and no one walked away dissatisfied. Yeah they are just raking in money and not doing a thing.

 

Bren

I heard differently. I heard from the testimony of a big fanboy that when trying to say good things after the fiasco that was their presentation, he said "...while most of the people leaved as soon as the presentation ended, I went to the stage to try to talk with CR and..."

Anyway, that has nothing to do with people liking it or not. Giving more money to them is counter-productive, make them too comfortable and you are too confortable what you do, is sleep, instead working, if you know what I mean.

Source or your talking out of your ass? There was no fiasco, you are blowing things out of proportion.

Because it is known that people left after the presentation and all of those people had a good time an enjoyed themselves. An people that stayed got to play the DFM afterwards. Online , after they got it back up. Then a day after that and the next day at PAX EAST, there was another playable DFM build on the show room floor.  That more people liked and enjoyed and that's all that matters.

 

(People that were early got to play it as well. With the Occulus rift.)

Also

Giving more money to them is not counter productive. An they are far from comfortable, they are developers they are working on a game and trying to make sure it does not suck . So they barely freaking sleep (comes with the profession). So for you  to say or even imply that because of all the money they are getting.  That they are f'ing around and not working. In which case that's what they are paid to do and that's their lively hoods.  Then you can literally stuff it. Because that's rude as hell.

These are 200+ developers cut down the middle Core team and Contractor's/freelancer. They don't got the time to dick around and they have a hungry fan base to please with a stable game even at this stage. An themselves to feed and their families to take care of. 

 

This is not Zynga....with their backhanded practices. CIG knows they need to improve on the presentation front, but you can't control software and especially not new software live.

 

Here is some FACTS and information:

 

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/comment/2318410/#Comment_2318410

" Hi Cabbage,

It was great to be a part of the mocap shoot. I'm really fascinated by that process, so it was exciting to watch the Bryan, Daniel and Jay do their thing. Hear dialogue spoken aloud is always a little weird at first, but it's invaluable in figuring out what dialogue works when voiced as compared to on the page. I also got to mess around with the virtual camera too.

The buildup to the DFM was also really interesting. While it's always a thrill to watch really talented people do what they do, there was a really great energy as the team would cluster around each others' desks when they had something cool to show. I don't know how everyone maintained the pace over that stretch.

Dave"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eWHEmAZ_Xk (Gamer Nexus , Interview with Chris Roberts after the Reveal.)

 

You know what? here's more! this is where they are spending all that extra money. That you think is making them all lazy for some weird bozo reason.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13610-Monthly-Report-February-2014

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13785-Monthly-Report-March-2014

No speculation or guessing needed.

 

 

So next time, you guys (You and your banned buddy -yeah he was banned on the forums, for good reason-)  want to continue to put forward your opinions as fact. Just understand that you are throwing around blanket statements . Though at the same time if you ignore facts and continue to post your fallacy based milk dropping's as facts. Then you are trolling . An your spreading mis information to suit your need to paint this game in a certain light.  Without evidence.

 

 

Unknown

I hope they make a great game eventually. Because if it's anything but great, there'll be Hell to pay, lol. Chris must be feeling a lot of pressure.

Cabbagehead664

Originally posted by Axxar

I hope they make a great game eventually. Because if it's anything but great, there'll be Hell to pay, lol. Chris must be feeling a lot of pressure.

 

The pressure is both good and bad. But he has to deal with it and manage. But at least it keeps him in check

 

This video greatly explains his mind set:

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQV5DKmYFCc (Interview with LinusTechTips)

 

grndzro

Originally posted by Cabbagehead664

So next time, you guys (You and your banned buddy -yeah he was banned on the forums, for good reason-)  want to continue to put forward your opinions as fact. Just understand that you are throwing around blanket statements . Though at the same time if you ignore facts and continue to post your fallacy based milk dropping's as facts. Then you are trolling . An your spreading mis information to suit your need to paint this game in a certain light.  Without evidence.

Am I this banned buddy? I'm not his buddy.

And if so when was I spouting misinformation?

I did get carried away but I don't think what I said was wrong.

kabitoshin

This should be posted in the official forums on the website I really doubt that a large percent of them come to this site. You can not control peoples impulse to spend more money on something they really want. It's not fair that they do flash sales on certain ships either, but then there would be alot of uproar of not putting it on sale. People want this game really bad but I don't see a finished product till 2017 with the persistent universe.

Cabbagehead664

Originally posted by grndzro

Originally posted by Cabbagehead664

So next time, you guys (You and your banned buddy -yeah he was banned on the forums, for good reason-)  want to continue to put forward your opinions as fact. Just understand that you are throwing around blanket statements . Though at the same time if you ignore facts and continue to post your fallacy based milk dropping's as facts. Then you are trolling . An your spreading mis information to suit your need to paint this game in a certain light.  Without evidence.

Am I this banned buddy? I'm not his buddy.

And if so when was I spouting misinformation?

I did get carried away but I don't think what I said was wrong.

Dude, i was not talking about you...how would or could it be about you?  i never said you or your name. lol

 

Talking about apan..

grndzro

Originally posted by Cabbagehead664

Originally posted by grndzro

Originally posted by Cabbagehead664

So next time, you guys (You and your banned buddy -yeah he was banned on the forums, for good reason-)  want to continue to put forward your opinions as fact. Just understand that you are throwing around blanket statements . Though at the same time if you ignore facts and continue to post your fallacy based milk dropping's as facts. Then you are trolling . An your spreading mis information to suit your need to paint this game in a certain light.  Without evidence.

Am I this banned buddy? I'm not his buddy.

And if so when was I spouting misinformation?

I did get carried away but I don't think what I said was wrong.

Dude, i was not talking about you...how would or could it be about you?  i never said you or your name. lol

 

Talking about apan..

Nope we're good. Had some beef lately. Wasn't sure.

Cabbagehead664

Originally posted by Manzes

What they are doing is reflecting not just outside in the views of generic people when looking to this project or trying to understand that... but actually is reflecting also inside, between many of their biggest supporters:

https://forums.robertsspaceindustries.com/discussion/122165/losing-my-religion-and-faith-in-cig

That's a valuable, honest and truth feedback. The money obsession of the CIG team went too far and the colateral damage is felt more than in any other projects. That's why you heard about people asking refunds for CIG, something that simply does not happen in the others. 

That's the price to pay when you dare too much, and show less than others that did not dare and kept the feet on the ground and humility. But all that the CIG seems to care, is on the creation of new forms of grabbing more and more money. And that becomes more and more funny to compare their actions with the speech that they raise about how different they are, "message to the publishers", "saving PC and Space Sim", "CR just wants to create the game that he wants to play, and money or appeal to the masses is not important" and other totally contradictory sentences.

That was the truth point of the earlier releases in modules of something of FREE ACCESS, that is not free at all, but limited to the ship that you bought by real money, just to make you thirsty to buy all their ships by real money before release. That is also the truth point of the continuity of the sales of alpha slots, removing promised exclusivity that people was promised to have at the beginning. And that is also the truth point of making a rank, where as more you paid or if you are a subscriber, you will get your hands in the Arena Commander earlier than others (and they promised that never they would give advantage to subscribers, except "behind the scenes" material), and that is the reason of opening again the LTI sales when it was promised in the past that "was the last chance"... that's why they never put the promised wall in their website...and that was why... well the list continues on and on... but everything ends with the only objective of MONEY (and many of that was brought after they already passed from 40 millions, again, 2x times the needed budget to create the game by themselves, per their own words).

 

So that's your evidence to prove your argument?  you win i guess.

You know what?  the game will fail hard, because of money obsession and money damage. Got it.  I will keep that in mind for the future. But i dislike speculation other wise.

 

Also that thread is already getting the forum attack seems and the OP is flame baiting at best. Though his points are only valid if they are have any truth in them within the context of the games development.  Which they don't. But whatever.  Continue on with the baseless speculation.

 

This paints my outlook on this project since 2012:

http://oi61.tinypic.com/2hdwuvt.jpg

 

Edit: The op of that thread was trolling. An that thread is now dead.

 

 

Brenelael

Originally posted by Manzes

Originally posted by Brenelael

Hundreds of people played the DFM at PAX-East and no one walked away dissatisfied. Yeah they are just raking in money and not doing a thing.

 

Bren

I heard differently. I heard from the testimony of a big fanboy that when trying to say good things after the fiasco that was their presentation, he said "...while most of the people leaved as soon as the presentation ended, I went to the stage to try to talk with CR and..."

Anyway, that has nothing to do with people liking it or not. Giving more money to them is counter-productive, make them too comfortable and you are too confortable what you do, is sleep, instead working, if you know what I mean.

I said at PAX-East... not at the reveal. Learn to read. They had several DFM computers set up on the PAX-East floor in the Logitech area. Hundreds of people tried it and I have yet to read any negative feedback from any of them. All who have written anything about it have been overwhelmingly positive. Most describe it as a full game in itself.

 

... But nothing I say will make you change your mind as you've built a wall of ignorance around you. Several have already proved you wrong in this thread already but you refuse to even acknowledge the facts that they have presented to you. If ignorance is truly bliss then you must be a very happy person indeed.

 

Bren

DarLorkar

it is not really hate. 

 

Just foolish thought that if a game needs 2 years and 5 mill to make..once it gets 40 mill should be fully ready to play in 6 months:P

Yes made up numbers.. but the point is the same. Money can not  magically cut all the time needed to produce a game.

Some..sure, not anywhere close to all. 

Me? i do not believe in these pay and hope games,  Kick starter or Early access.  I will wait till i have a complete game to purchase before i hand over my hard earned cash:P  

I have high hopes for this game.. loved privateer game way back..still have it on my system and play it from time to time. 

grndzro

Originally posted by Manzes

You proved nothing Jon Snow.

They have obligation to deliver something stable. They are releasing the full game for a traditional alpha phase. After 2 and a half years, and using an Engine (not creating from scratch), and starting from an "advanced" prototype, according the CR speech (or that was just a lie to grab money?), they are just releasing a very tiny part of the whole, with a very limited number of assets and "gameplay" situations, compared with a full game.

So 3 people can make an advanced next gen MMORPG prototype on Cryengine 3 in a year! HOLY CRAP!

And, they are using an Agile Methodology that is meant exactly to you have little parts released and these little parts stable for client experimentation. If they released at the same level of instability that a traditional alpha that has almost all the code for the full game, they would show themselves as really incompetent, when coding and mainly in its management, since a good PM knows what and how to release things under Agile development to take advantage of that, instead not taking advantage of that and taking the same ridiculous results that you got when releasing something under the Waterfall methodology.

Yes. We should get many problems related to different levels of compatibility, different hardware, problems of hardware, but getting a freeze that happens for everyone in every case is simply ridiculous, because again, its Agile Methodology, it is just a tiny part of the whole, and it should be already tested and assumed as ok. They already demonstrated some lack of competence in using the methodology with all they shown in the PAX reveal. Hopefully, they won't show on the actual release.

What position at CRI gives you such insight into the making of SC?

In any case, stable or not, that has nothing to do with the simple fact tha they would release exactly the same thing if they had 5.5 million, 20 million, 40 or 1 billion. They are demonstrating that very clearly. They definitely do not need more money that they already have, and adding more, when they are showing crap or just what is supposed to show (with a big delay), people should answer witih less money, not more money. This attitude only motivates some ridiculous things that they are doing from now and beyond, like the expansion of alpha slots with ticket price (contradicting their previous advertising), and the worst thing, limiting people to play with only one ship during an year or two, while this Arena Commander be the only thing playable). They act as they did not have one single cent, but look... they already have 42 millions, but still needs more.

Source?

So to recap

3 people can make an advanced next gen MMORPG prototype on Cryengine 3 in a year.

You seem to have inside information into the making of SC.

All the money gained past 5.5 million will never be used in the making of Star Citizen.

grndzro

Originally posted by Manzes

Limit Theory has been done by 1 person. But for the sake of source to answer your first sentence, what about CR words:

“You’re one of those doubters, but hey, I’m going to be happy to be proving you wrong,” “We’ve already spent around a year in development, and remember that most of these crowdfunding campaigns, when you look at it, no one has shown anything. I actually showed a pretty advanced prototype, and that prototype has most of the functionality I need to build a Wing-Commander style game,” he explained.

Source> http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/star-citizen

He said that needed 20-22 million to develop the game fully without need of any investor. He told that his FULL vision would be achieved just with 5.5, since he already had investors. Do you really need a source for that? Just look into their own comm-links.

I did not say that all the money won't be used for the game. But if you believe that all the money will be used for the game, man... I don't know what to say to you... You are much more than naive. I would need a new word for that.

No. I don't have inside information into the making of SC, since all that I am saying is based in the actual information that they release. What exactly do you think, about what I am saying, that "is inside information"? It seems that you are just bad informed about the game. Yes. I know a lot about Agile development, game, software development and management in general. You do not need to be an insider to take conclusions of what we should expect that is coming (or should come if they are really competent).

In any case, you do not need the budget of 2 movies, games, shirts, whatever to make 1 pal. That does not make any sense. Saying that it is just "to add more content" in a generic tone and you just accept that, even when they are talking about of twice or more of the budget needed, well... any similarity with a church speech asking for money is just coincidence?

I agreed with you, what more do you want.

It's incredible that 3 people were able to make a next gen space MMORPG prototype in a year.

 

Yea yea sure all they really needed was 5.5 million with the help of investors. I guess you missed the part where SC already paid back their investors.

 

So what exactly is your Agile programming experience working with Cryengine next and all it's bells and whistles?

 

Are you saying the scope of Star Citizen has never changed from day one?

That they always planned on switching to Cryengine next from CE3?

That working with Crytek on revamping CE3 was always in the cards?

That ground combat was in the initial plans?

That the game was from day 1 was going to have a real time economy and persistant universe?

Cabbagehead664

Originally posted by Manzes

Originally posted by grndzro

Originally posted by Manzes

You proved nothing Jon Snow.

They have obligation to deliver something stable. They are releasing the full game for a traditional alpha phase. After 2 and a half years, and using an Engine (not creating from scratch), and starting from an "advanced" prototype, according the CR speech (or that was just a lie to grab money?), they are just releasing a very tiny part of the whole, with a very limited number of assets and "gameplay" situations, compared with a full game.

So 3 people can make an advanced next gen MMORPG prototype on Cryengine 3 in a year! HOLY CRAP!

And, they are using an Agile Methodology that is meant exactly to you have little parts released and these little parts stable for client experimentation. If they released at the same level of instability that a traditional alpha that has almost all the code for the full game, they would show themselves as really incompetent, when coding and mainly in its management, since a good PM knows what and how to release things under Agile development to take advantage of that, instead not taking advantage of that and taking the same ridiculous results that you got when releasing something under the Waterfall methodology.

Yes. We should get many problems related to different levels of compatibility, different hardware, problems of hardware, but getting a freeze that happens for everyone in every case is simply ridiculous, because again, its Agile Methodology, it is just a tiny part of the whole, and it should be already tested and assumed as ok. They already demonstrated some lack of competence in using the methodology with all they shown in the PAX reveal. Hopefully, they won't show on the actual release.

What position at CRI gives you such insight into the making of SC?

In any case, stable or not, that has nothing to do with the simple fact tha they would release exactly the same thing if they had 5.5 million, 20 million, 40 or 1 billion. They are demonstrating that very clearly. They definitely do not need more money that they already have, and adding more, when they are showing crap or just what is supposed to show (with a big delay), people should answer witih less money, not more money. This attitude only motivates some ridiculous things that they are doing from now and beyond, like the expansion of alpha slots with ticket price (contradicting their previous advertising), and the worst thing, limiting people to play with only one ship during an year or two, while this Arena Commander be the only thing playable). They act as they did not have one single cent, but look... they already have 42 millions, but still needs more.

Source?

So to recap

3 people can make an advanced next gen MMORPG prototype on Cryengine 3 in a year.

You seem to have inside information into the making of SC.

All the money gained past 5.5 million will never be used in the making of Star Citizen.

Limit Theory has been done by 1 person. But for the sake of source to answer your first sentence, what about CR words:

“You’re one of those doubters, but hey, I’m going to be happy to be proving you wrong,” “We’ve already spent around a year in development, and remember that most of these crowdfunding campaigns, when you look at it, no one has shown anything. I actually showed a pretty advanced prototype, and that prototype has most of the functionality I need to build a Wing-Commander style game,” he explained.

Source> http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/star-citizen

He said that needed 20-22 million to develop the game fully without need of any investor. He told that his FULL vision would be achieved just with 5.5, since he already had investors. Do you really need a source for that? Just look into their own comm-links.

I did not say that all the money won't be used for the game. But if you believe that all the money will be used for the game, man... I don't know what to say to you... You are much more than naive. I would need a new word for that.

No. I don't have inside information into the making of SC, since all that I am saying is based in the actual information that they release. What exactly do you think, about what I am saying, that "is inside information"? It seems that you are just bad informed about the game. Yes. I know a lot about Agile development, game, software development and management in general. You do not need to be an insider to take conclusions of what we should expect that is coming (or should come if they are really competent).

In any case, you do not need the budget of 2 movies, games, shirts, whatever to make 1 pal. That does not make any sense. Saying that it is just "to add more content" in a generic tone and you just accept that, even when they are talking about of twice or more of the budget needed, well... any similarity with a church speech asking for money is just coincidence?

 

 

 

Then be quiet then. Because you might be drooling out information to fit your argument. That holds no water. Given you go on to speculate and the put a bunch of false conclusions and such. Though all your doing is invalidating your self. Over and OVER again.

Don't compare Limit Theory to StarCitizen/SQ42. To different games. With very different scopes. 

 

One is a true indie game and the other is a AAA indie game. Even Josh the Creator behind the game understands whats going on more then you do:  http://forums.ltheory.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1093&start=60

 

Just stop and disappearing. Because you are talking nonsense.  Also why in the hell are you posting a Article from 11/2/2012? how about something more recent? that actually carries the swift in mindset.  From those early beginnings...

http://gamingbolt.com/star-citizen-interview-chris-roberts-on-building-a-space-simulator-for-the-ages

Dreams change, perspective changes and scope changed over time. That called progression and also CIG/CR asked the COMMUNITY themselves if they wanted to continue given money or not. It was not a decision made half heartedly and those people said yes.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12760-Poll-Additional-Stretch-Goals

 

(RIGHT AFTER THAT INTERVIEW...IN 2012. You posted things changed.)

 

Cabbagehead664

Star Citizen is not one game and CIG is not working on ONE game. They are working on TWO games. SC and SQ42.  Both are connected. Other then that. Its hard to understand what you are TRYING to say. Because it's in broken English....also they have to and are currently revamping the engine. That they started modifying 2 years ago. Roughly. Much or a big part of that was putting down the foundation and most recently.  A lot more has gone into reworking the engine. Alongside Crytek and with the help of former Crytek developers that joined CIG to move that along much quicker.

 

Anyways....MORE INFORMATION.

 

More interview:

 

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/11/08/chris-roberts-details-squadron-42-takes-on-doubters/ (Doubters)

 

http://www.tentonhammer.com/features/interviews/chris-roberts-responds-to-cult-of-star-citizen

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/09/26/roberts-on-star-citizens-exploration-gameplay-publisher-free-d/

 

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2013-04-22-chris-roberts-how-incredible-community-transforms-development (Another good one)

 

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/200998/chris_roberts_on_star_citizen_.php?print=1 (Puts everything in perspective)

 

Please read them all, when you can and if you can.  Don't post back to me until you do....otherwise you will be missing on one fatal information. Being provided in these interviews.

 

Though if you don't want to read them, and dismissing them. Then thats you ignoring information.  Very good information to your concerns and problems and or assumed  problems.  Never the less, don't insult mines , yours and others intelligences by not HAVING all the facts and not speculating. 

 

What, when and How

grndzro

Originally posted by Manzes

Sorry pal. You are claiming that "I am saying this or that", but in fact, who said was Chris Roberts.

Do you have basic math issues? Let me help you...

Star citizen is one game. It costs $20 to create everything. If you have $40, how many Star Citizen you can create?

So, you are saying that 20 additional millions (or maybe 100, 200 million until release?) is the cost to develop a ground battle in one or two planets (that was what they really promised), that is nothing more than the same thing that will be allowed when boarding ships, in the same map that actually will be made in those planets, anyway, and the only thing is that they will allow pew pew there?

Well... Clearly you are very far to understand how games are build (no offense). It's a simple mechanic that they are not willing to allow (due the reason to keep safe areas) and now they will allow some places to be not safe. Nothing more than that. Or you are thinking that it is something different? I would not be surprised. I remember that it was one more of their traps, when they announce, making it appear something more than it will be for real.

By the way. Many of the things that you quoted as "additional stuff" was already promised in the Original Stretch Goals that are below the 6 million mark.

What you said about, "need on revamping CE3" are just excuses. You cannot work for 2.5 years in a game and then, in the last year you change everything, and then you say "Ok, the previous years did not exist".

No man... You just sucked, because shit happens. But still, you are accountable for that. You cant promise something for people and later just come with excuses for failures, mainly when you play the role of "The Master of the Universe". That is not how you create a reliable company.  Worst, that for the sake of grabbing more money, they almost all the time contradict all their original and constant speech.

By the way, that's their biggest issue of CIG. What they say x What they do, if you haven't notice yet.

You have quite the tinfoil hat there.

Cabbagehead664

Originally posted by grndzro

Originally posted by Manzes

Sorry pal. You are claiming that "I am saying this or that", but in fact, who said was Chris Roberts.

Do you have basic math issues? Let me help you...

Star citizen is one game. It costs $20 to create everything. If you have $40, how many Star Citizen you can create?

So, you are saying that 20 additional millions (or maybe 100, 200 million until release?) is the cost to develop a ground battle in one or two planets (that was what they really promised), that is nothing more than the same thing that will be allowed when boarding ships, in the same map that actually will be made in those planets, anyway, and the only thing is that they will allow pew pew there?

Well... Clearly you are very far to understand how games are build (no offense). It's a simple mechanic that they are not willing to allow (due the reason to keep safe areas) and now they will allow some places to be not safe. Nothing more than that. Or you are thinking that it is something different? I would not be surprised. I remember that it was one more of their traps, when they announce, making it appear something more than it will be for real.

By the way. Many of the things that you quoted as "additional stuff" was already promised in the Original Stretch Goals that are below the 6 million mark.

What you said about, "need on revamping CE3" are just excuses. You cannot work for 2.5 years in a game and then, in the last year you change everything, and then you say "Ok, the previous years did not exist".

No man... You just sucked, because shit happens. But still, you are accountable for that. You cant promise something for people and later just come with excuses for failures, mainly when you play the role of "The Master of the Universe". That is not how you create a reliable company.  Worst, that for the sake of grabbing more money, they almost all the time contradict all their original and constant speech.

By the way, that's their biggest issue of CIG. What they say x What they do, if you haven't notice yet.

You have quite the tinfoil hat there.

He sure does, for the past four pages. I have seen slender, insults, assumings, baseless business predictions, blanket statements, false or mis-understood information, a crap ton of idiocies, illogically fallacies,  the list goes on and straight up stubbornness or just plain trolling.

Which he needs to stop. If he wants to be taken seriously in a debate or argument. About a game he is mindful of because has not clue about. Because the  inter-workings of CIG are all there to see. In plain sight. No mirrors or smoke screens or shadow work.

 

So if he does not, inform himself with ALL the links, information, videos and such. Then hes a lost cause.  An will continue to talk out of his ass. An make a fool of himself. Unfortunately.

 

I mean they make it quite clear, how many things they are working on. At each studio.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13610-Monthly-Report-February-2014

 

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13785-Monthly-Report-March-2014

 

But i wonder if he will know the difference between someone. Posting valid information and a Fanboy.

Cabbagehead664

Originally posted by Manzes

Originally posted by Cabbagehead664

Originally posted by Manzes

Originally posted by grndzro

Originally posted by Manzes

You proved nothing Jon Snow.

They have obligation to deliver something stable. They are releasing the full game for a traditional alpha phase. After 2 and a half years, and using an Engine (not creating from scratch), and starting from an "advanced" prototype, according the CR speech (or that was just a lie to grab money?), they are just releasing a very tiny part of the whole, with a very limited number of assets and "gameplay" situations, compared with a full game.

So 3 people can make an advanced next gen MMORPG prototype on Cryengine 3 in a year! HOLY CRAP!

And, they are using an Agile Methodology that is meant exactly to you have little parts released and these little parts stable for client experimentation. If they released at the same level of instability that a traditional alpha that has almost all the code for the full game, they would show themselves as really incompetent, when coding and mainly in its management, since a good PM knows what and how to release things under Agile development to take advantage of that, instead not taking advantage of that and taking the same ridiculous results that you got when releasing something under the Waterfall methodology.

Yes. We should get many problems related to different levels of compatibility, different hardware, problems of hardware, but getting a freeze that happens for everyone in every case is simply ridiculous, because again, its Agile Methodology, it is just a tiny part of the whole, and it should be already tested and assumed as ok. They already demonstrated some lack of competence in using the methodology with all they shown in the PAX reveal. Hopefully, they won't show on the actual release.

What position at CRI gives you such insight into the making of SC?

In any case, stable or not, that has nothing to do with the simple fact tha they would release exactly the same thing if they had 5.5 million, 20 million, 40 or 1 billion. They are demonstrating that very clearly. They definitely do not need more money that they already have, and adding more, when they are showing crap or just what is supposed to show (with a big delay), people should answer witih less money, not more money. This attitude only motivates some ridiculous things that they are doing from now and beyond, like the expansion of alpha slots with ticket price (contradicting their previous advertising), and the worst thing, limiting people to play with only one ship during an year or two, while this Arena Commander be the only thing playable). They act as they did not have one single cent, but look... they already have 42 millions, but still needs more.

Source?

So to recap

3 people can make an advanced next gen MMORPG prototype on Cryengine 3 in a year.

You seem to have inside information into the making of SC.

All the money gained past 5.5 million will never be used in the making of Star Citizen.

Limit Theory has been done by 1 person. But for the sake of source to answer your first sentence, what about CR words:

“You’re one of those doubters, but hey, I’m going to be happy to be proving you wrong,” “We’ve already spent around a year in development, and remember that most of these crowdfunding campaigns, when you look at it, no one has shown anything. I actually showed a pretty advanced prototype, and that prototype has most of the functionality I need to build a Wing-Commander style game,” he explained.

Source> http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/star-citizen

He said that needed 20-22 million to develop the game fully without need of any investor. He told that his FULL vision would be achieved just with 5.5, since he already had investors. Do you really need a source for that? Just look into their own comm-links.

I did not say that all the money won't be used for the game. But if you believe that all the money will be used for the game, man... I don't know what to say to you... You are much more than naive. I would need a new word for that.

No. I don't have inside information into the making of SC, since all that I am saying is based in the actual information that they release. What exactly do you think, about what I am saying, that "is inside information"? It seems that you are just bad informed about the game. Yes. I know a lot about Agile development, game, software development and management in general. You do not need to be an insider to take conclusions of what we should expect that is coming (or should come if they are really competent).

In any case, you do not need the budget of 2 movies, games, shirts, whatever to make 1 pal. That does not make any sense. Saying that it is just "to add more content" in a generic tone and you just accept that, even when they are talking about of twice or more of the budget needed, well... any similarity with a church speech asking for money is just coincidence?

 

 

 

Then be quiet then. Because you might be drooling out information to fit your argument. That holds no water. Given you go on to speculate and the put a bunch of false conclusions and such. Though all your doing is invalidating your self. Over and OVER again.

Don't compare Limit Theory to StarCitizen/SQ42. To different games. With very different scopes. 

 

One is a true indie game and the other is a AAA indie game. Even Josh the Creator behind the game understands whats going on more then you do:  http://forums.ltheory.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1093&start=60

 

Just stop and disappearing. Because you are talking nonsense.  Also why in the hell are you posting a Article from 11/2/2012? how about something more recent? that actually carries the swift in mindset.  From those early beginnings...

http://gamingbolt.com/star-citizen-interview-chris-roberts-on-building-a-space-simulator-for-the-ages

Dreams change, perspective changes and scope changed over time. That called progression and also CIG/CR asked the COMMUNITY themselves if they wanted to continue given money or not. It was not a decision made half heartedly and those people said yes.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12760-Poll-Additional-Stretch-Goals

 

(RIGHT AFTER THAT INTERVIEW...IN 2012. You posted things changed.)

 

I brought that article because CR said something about their prototype, with the obviously objective to grab money, that later was proven a lie. And has nothing to do with "things change". Only under naive minds. After all, he is Chris Roberts, not a newbie that is not knowing what to do, right? It is impressive how, depending of the situation, people claims that CR is a master, and for excuses, they say that he acts just like a newbie.

And you really believe that in that website totally controlled by the CIG team, where the info is totally manipulated, where the counters are fake to make appear something that is not exactly what it is, they would not manipulate a poll? 

By the way, they made that poll with what you call "community" but in fact, who answered that was mainly the fanboys, that in their amateur, blind and naive thinking (that any passionate person have), assume that more money really means more stuff for the game. So, they would not need to manipulate that, since they are asking for someone addicted by cocaine if they want more cocaine.

They just did that to try to convince people that "was not their wish to grab more money from people". That was really ridiculous, but I am not impressed that many of you fell in such trick, because you know... fanboys are just fanboys, they believe in whatever fairy tale.

CR is not so newbie to let a business decision in the hands of a community, for real. If you really believed on that poll, you are definitely naive and probably a man that cannot see your own contradictions, since I don't doubt that you said and spread many times (as well as the own CIG marketing team) that Chris Roberts is an experienced developer and business man that would not be irresponsible to let a big business decision, with tons of bad possible colateral damage and consequences related to pressure, higher expectation, press view, in the hands of a bunch of fanatics, that probably have no idea, in its majority, how the game business works.

 

 

 

So your not going to read any of the links? READ THE LINKS! gain some perspective.  That other interview was from 2012.

 

What ? are you just babbling now and assuming things.(more like taking a dump on your arguments)  You SEEM like an  ignorant person that will never understand.

Also your the only one that does not understand what or how game development works and you don't know how this one is being run or how this game is being developed. Because you are ignoring all the fact. To draw your own false conclusions.  Because nothing i provide or say. Will amount to nothing because you think.  Its all this fairly tale nonsense.

"Fanboy Talk" and that people are being Tricked? lol got evidence to back up that claim....because you are making an accusation with nothing to back up that statement.

 

The only person that is being Naive here. Is you.  Thinking you know what your talking about. Also what in the fucking hell are  you talking about. That CIG is doing shady things and manipulating things on the site and with the polls. FUCKING STOP and Take off the Tin foil hat. This is not a conspiracy.

Otherwise. PROVIDE FACTUAL EVIDENCE! to PROVE YOUR CLAIMS!

grndzro

Originally posted by Manzes

The Limit Theory example was more to show that yes, 3 people would be capable to build that prototype in ONE year of development with an ENGINE in its hands. Not saying that Limit Theory will be the same future scope that SC plans to have. Just replying the argument that the other guy brought to show how he is wrong on this argument (I am not saying that he is wrong in everything else).

I agreed with you. Yes it is incredible that 3 people were able to make a next gen space and combat MMORPG prototype in a year.

I brought that article because CR said something about their prototype, with the obviously objective to grab money, that later was proven a lie. And has nothing to do with "things change". Only under naive minds. After all, he is Chris Roberts, not a newbie that is not knowing what to do, right? It is impressive how, depending of the situation, people claims that CR is a master, and for excuses, they say that he acts just like a newbie.

Yea the greedy Chris Roberts used his own money to produce a prototype space next gen real time hybrid AAA space MMORPG with only 3 people.

And you really believe that in that website totally controlled by the CIG team, where the info is totally manipulated, where the counters are fake to make appear something that is not exactly what it is, they would not manipulate a poll? 

By the way, they made that poll with what you call "community" but in fact, who answered that was mainly the fanboys, that in their amateur, blind and naive thinking (that any passionate person have), assume that more money really means more stuff for the game. So, they would not need to manipulate that, since they are asking for someone addicted by cocaine if they want more cocaine.

And you care why? What is your obsession with the morals of a company that people support?

They just did that to try to convince people that "was not their wish to grab more money from people". That was really ridiculous, but I am not impressed that many of you fell in such trick, because you know... fanboys are just fanboys, they believe in whatever fairy tale.

Great you are not impressed. Why are you trying so hard to discredit SC?

CR is not so newbie to let a business decision in the hands of a community, for real. If you really believed on that poll, you are definitely naive and probably a man that cannot see your own contradictions, since I don't doubt that you said and spread many times (as well as the own CIG marketing team) that Chris Roberts is an experienced developer and business man that would not be irresponsible to let a big business decision, with tons of bad possible colateral damage and consequences related to pressure, higher expectation, press view, in the hands of a bunch of fanatics, that probably have no idea, in its majority, how the game business works.

We get it...you have no respect for the people that support SC, and have no faith in Chris Roberts.

I really am dying to know what your problem with Chris Roberts is.

 

Cabbagehead664

Originally posted by Manzes

Originally posted by Cabbagehead664

Originally posted by Manzes

Originally posted by Cabbagehead664

Originally posted by Manzes

Originally posted by grndzro

Originally posted by Manzes

You proved nothing Jon Snow.

They have obligation to deliver something stable. They are releasing the full game for a traditional alpha phase. After 2 and a half years, and using an Engine (not creating from scratch), and starting from an "advanced" prototype, according the CR speech (or that was just a lie to grab money?), they are just releasing a very tiny part of the whole, with a very limited number of assets and "gameplay" situations, compared with a full game.

So 3 people can make an advanced next gen MMORPG prototype on Cryengine 3 in a year! HOLY CRAP!

And, they are using an Agile Methodology that is meant exactly to you have little parts released and these little parts stable for client experimentation. If they released at the same level of instability that a traditional alpha that has almost all the code for the full game, they would show themselves as really incompetent, when coding and mainly in its management, since a good PM knows what and how to release things under Agile development to take advantage of that, instead not taking advantage of that and taking the same ridiculous results that you got when releasing something under the Waterfall methodology.

Yes. We should get many problems related to different levels of compatibility, different hardware, problems of hardware, but getting a freeze that happens for everyone in every case is simply ridiculous, because again, its Agile Methodology, it is just a tiny part of the whole, and it should be already tested and assumed as ok. They already demonstrated some lack of competence in using the methodology with all they shown in the PAX reveal. Hopefully, they won't show on the actual release.

What position at CRI gives you such insight into the making of SC?

In any case, stable or not, that has nothing to do with the simple fact tha they would release exactly the same thing if they had 5.5 million, 20 million, 40 or 1 billion. They are demonstrating that very clearly. They definitely do not need more money that they already have, and adding more, when they are showing crap or just what is supposed to show (with a big delay), people should answer witih less money, not more money. This attitude only motivates some ridiculous things that they are doing from now and beyond, like the expansion of alpha slots with ticket price (contradicting their previous advertising), and the worst thing, limiting people to play with only one ship during an year or two, while this Arena Commander be the only thing playable). They act as they did not have one single cent, but look... they already have 42 millions, but still needs more.

Source?

So to recap

3 people can make an advanced next gen MMORPG prototype on Cryengine 3 in a year.

You seem to have inside information into the making of SC.

All the money gained past 5.5 million will never be used in the making of Star Citizen.

Limit Theory has been done by 1 person. But for the sake of source to answer your first sentence, what about CR words:

“You’re one of those doubters, but hey, I’m going to be happy to be proving you wrong,” “We’ve already spent around a year in development, and remember that most of these crowdfunding campaigns, when you look at it, no one has shown anything. I actually showed a pretty advanced prototype, and that prototype has most of the functionality I need to build a Wing-Commander style game,” he explained.

Source> http://www.penny-arcade.com/report/article/star-citizen

He said that needed 20-22 million to develop the game fully without need of any investor. He told that his FULL vision would be achieved just with 5.5, since he already had investors. Do you really need a source for that? Just look into their own comm-links.

I did not say that all the money won't be used for the game. But if you believe that all the money will be used for the game, man... I don't know what to say to you... You are much more than naive. I would need a new word for that.

No. I don't have inside information into the making of SC, since all that I am saying is based in the actual information that they release. What exactly do you think, about what I am saying, that "is inside information"? It seems that you are just bad informed about the game. Yes. I know a lot about Agile development, game, software development and management in general. You do not need to be an insider to take conclusions of what we should expect that is coming (or should come if they are really competent).

In any case, you do not need the budget of 2 movies, games, shirts, whatever to make 1 pal. That does not make any sense. Saying that it is just "to add more content" in a generic tone and you just accept that, even when they are talking about of twice or more of the budget needed, well... any similarity with a church speech asking for money is just coincidence?

 

 

 

Then be quiet then. Because you might be drooling out information to fit your argument. That holds no water. Given you go on to speculate and the put a bunch of false conclusions and such. Though all your doing is invalidating your self. Over and OVER again.

Don't compare Limit Theory to StarCitizen/SQ42. To different games. With very different scopes. 

 

One is a true indie game and the other is a AAA indie game. Even Josh the Creator behind the game understands whats going on more then you do:  http://forums.ltheory.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=1093&start=60

 

Just stop and disappearing. Because you are talking nonsense.  Also why in the hell are you posting a Article from 11/2/2012? how about something more recent? that actually carries the swift in mindset.  From those early beginnings...

http://gamingbolt.com/star-citizen-interview-chris-roberts-on-building-a-space-simulator-for-the-ages

Dreams change, perspective changes and scope changed over time. That called progression and also CIG/CR asked the COMMUNITY themselves if they wanted to continue given money or not. It was not a decision made half heartedly and those people said yes.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12760-Poll-Additional-Stretch-Goals

 

(RIGHT AFTER THAT INTERVIEW...IN 2012. You posted things changed.)

 

I brought that article because CR said something about their prototype, with the obviously objective to grab money, that later was proven a lie. And has nothing to do with "things change". Only under naive minds. After all, he is Chris Roberts, not a newbie that is not knowing what to do, right? It is impressive how, depending of the situation, people claims that CR is a master, and for excuses, they say that he acts just like a newbie.

And you really believe that in that website totally controlled by the CIG team, where the info is totally manipulated, where the counters are fake to make appear something that is not exactly what it is, they would not manipulate a poll? 

By the way, they made that poll with what you call "community" but in fact, who answered that was mainly the fanboys, that in their amateur, blind and naive thinking (that any passionate person have), assume that more money really means more stuff for the game. So, they would not need to manipulate that, since they are asking for someone addicted by cocaine if they want more cocaine.

They just did that to try to convince people that "was not their wish to grab more money from people". That was really ridiculous, but I am not impressed that many of you fell in such trick, because you know... fanboys are just fanboys, they believe in whatever fairy tale.

CR is not so newbie to let a business decision in the hands of a community, for real. If you really believed on that poll, you are definitely naive and probably a man that cannot see your own contradictions, since I don't doubt that you said and spread many times (as well as the own CIG marketing team) that Chris Roberts is an experienced developer and business man that would not be irresponsible to let a big business decision, with tons of bad possible colateral damage and consequences related to pressure, higher expectation, press view, in the hands of a bunch of fanatics, that probably have no idea, in its majority, how the game business works.

 

 

 

So your not going to read any of the links? READ THE LINKS! gain some perspective.  That other interview was from 2012.

 

What ? are you just babbling now and assuming things.(more like taking a dump on your arguments)  You SEEM like an  ignorant person that will never understand.

Also your the only one that does not understand what or how game development works and you don't know how this one is being run or how this game is being developed. Because you are ignoring all the fact. To draw your own false conclusions.  Because nothing i provide or say. Will amount to nothing because you think.  Its all this fairly tale nonsense.

"Fanboy Talk" and that people are being Tricked? lol got evidence to back up that claim....because you are making an accusation with nothing to back up that statement.

 

The only person that is being Naive here. Is you.  Thinking you know what your talking about. Also what in the fucking hell are  you talking about. That CIG is doing shady things and manipulating things on the site and with the polls. FUCKING STOP and Take off the Tin foil hat. This is not a conspiracy.

Otherwise. PROVIDE FACTUAL EVIDENCE! to PROVE YOUR CLAIMS!

Earlier you said that I am insulting all the time... Are you really paying attention in what I write and MAINLY, in what YOU write? If still cannot see... probably insult is a notion very different that you have, different from the whole world.

Yes. I read that pages... actually I read them in the day that they were published, more than 1 time for sure. And I know that what is described there is a report for what they have been doing. Something that people that you fought against, in the forums, actually asked and you fought agains, as any other fanboy like you. So, it is kind of funny having you now trying to use that to defend some point. But that is nothing different that they actually would make if having only 20-22 millions, that is actually the point of this discussion. Or are you really trying to convince that because they have 20-22 additional millions, that's why they are creating such report, or only because that, they hired those studios? No. It's not. All their studios were hired already while SC had yet not much more than 6 million (there are many talking about that in the earlier Wingman's Hangar, with Eric saying that CR was traveling to bring those people to the job).

And of course, those "reports" are more meant as an additional marketing tool, than actual information about the development itself. Really... Many bad jokes there and some pathetic try to show "how cool they are". 

Yes. I brought evidences from what I said. Evidence about the subject and about what I said... I've been much more specific than you. You seem just lost, dropping whatever you see in front of you that has nothing to do with the matter.

 

Yeah , were done until. You provide information or evidence for your other claims and also i have no idea. What you are talking about in regards to my arguments on the forums. (a crap ton of them are sound)  But that has nothing to do with anything. So i have no idea why your bring them up.

 

Provide Evidence. Or Stop posting.

 

You the one that seems lost and your blabbing away about nonsense. Because your dismissing everything as. Meaningless. Also its not an insult if its the truth.  An i'm more annoyed then anything.  Given how stubborn you are and all your blanket statements. Also that insult comment was in regards to you questioning CIG's integrity without bases in the real world of hard facts.

Because your assuming that you know what your talking about.

One more thing is English your first spoken? its hard to read what your posting.

 

Provide Evidence Or Stop posting.

grndzro

Originally posted by Manzes

Earlier you said that I am insulting all the time... Are you really paying attention in what I write and MAINLY, in what YOU write? If still cannot see... probably insult is a notion very different that you have, different from the whole world.

Yes. I read that pages... actually I read them in the day that they were published, more than 1 time for sure. And I know that what is described there is a report for what they have been doing. Something that people that you fought against, in the forums, actually asked and you fought agains, as any other fanboy like you. So, it is kind of funny having you now trying to use that to defend some point. But that is nothing different that they actually would make if having only 20-22 millions, that is actually the point of this discussion. Or are you really trying to convince that because they have 20-22 additional millions, that's why they are creating such report, or only because that, they hired those studios? No. It's not. All their studios were hired already while SC had yet not much more than 6 million (there are many talking about that in the earlier Wingman's Hangar, with Eric saying that CR was traveling to bring those people to the job).

And of course, those "reports" are more meant as an additional marketing tool, than actual information about the development itself. Really... Many bad jokes there and some pathetic try to show "how cool they are". 

Yes. I brought evidences from what I said. Evidence about the subject and about what I said... I've been much more specific than you. You seem just lost, dropping whatever you see in front of you that has nothing to do with the matter.

 

So. Are you going to tell us why you are trying so hard to discredit Star Citizen and Chris Roberts?

Brenelael

Does anyone else think it's very odd that apanz3r hasn't replied to his own thread given his past history here? I suspect he will now after Manzes realizes his mistake and switches accounts....

 

Bren

grndzro

Originally posted by Manzes

The answers were already given. You two are just asking the same questions again and again, and not answering my own properly, with obvious tactics to derail the thread to make people more confuse.

I will answer as soon as I see something really relevant or new that you guys brought, otherwise, in respect of the readers comprehension, so they form their own opinion, I am not doing that again, after all, you clearly are trying to derail the thread with a full set of irrelevant questions.

People already had enough information to research if what I am saying is true or not, if they are not convinced yet by the evidences that I brought.

Don't be afraid fanboy. If what I am saying is totally ignorant and idiot as you said, people will see that.

Except that everything you post is complete BS.