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HERO Engine, should I be worried?

doodphacedoodphace Member UncommonPosts: 1,858
in Elder Scrolls Online

So I caved in and bought ESO. While running the installer, I was presented with a fullscreen "Powered by Hero Engine", with the "hero engine" cleverly written to invoke images of a lightsaber. The game is still downloading atm, so I havent yet been able to try it out.

As a veteran SWTOR player, that worries me to all hell considering the only reason I bought it, is for the large scale PVP...something SWTOR was lacking in regarding the "performance department" to say the least.. I imagine this has been covered here, but I havent been able to find any recent posts.

Should I be worried??

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Comments

  • prowesssprowesss Member Posts: 69

    There's a few things to consider...

     

    One, Bioware licensed HeroEngine when it was not yet productized and was in beta form.  HeroEngine of today is so much cleaner, more evolved, robust with features...  A great, solid framework with tremendous flexibility and portability.

     

    Two, ZOS has heavily modified the HeroEngine to meet their needs..  They've implemented tech from the Havok engine, like the water, trees, materials, AI, post-processing, etc...  

     

    Three, HeroEngine was selected for its suitability for their needs and comes with many features and functions they needed standard..  Things they only changed in superficial ways are functioning perfectly while things they've replaced or heavily modified, like the inventory/SQL backend, is the stuff that's falling apart.

     

    Edit: I'd also like to add that they changed the positional data tracking solution that came standard with HeroEngine..  This was probably necessary to make the large-scale PvP battles possible but also removed some essential security features..  The current position-tracking solution allows bots to teleport or run at insane speeds without using stamina.

    image
    I chose the Xfinity speed test because it does not reveal my ISP.

  • doodphacedoodphace Member UncommonPosts: 1,858
    Originally posted by prowesss

    There's a few things to consider...

     

    One, Bioware licensed HeroEngine when it was not yet productized and was in beta form.  HeroEngine of today is so much cleaner, more evolved, robust with features...  A great, solid framework with tremendous flexibility and portability.

     

    Two, ZOS has heavily modified the HeroEngine to meet their needs..  They've implemented tech from the Havok engine, like the water, trees, materials, AI, post-processing, etc...  

     

    Three, HeroEngine was selected for its suitability for their needs and comes with many features and functions they needed standard..  Things they only changed in superficial ways are functioning perfectly while things they've replaced or heavily modified, like the inventory/SQL backend, is the stuff that's falling apart.

    So you are saying the performance stays solid in large scale PVP, and doesn't lay a turd with more than 15 people on screen like SWTOR?

  • WarjinWarjin Member UncommonPosts: 1,216
    Originally posted by doodphace

    So I caved in and bought ESO. While running the installer, I was presented with a fullscreen "Powered by Hero Engine", with the "hero engine" cleverly written to invoke images of a lightsaber. The game is still downloading atm, so I havent yet been able to try it out.

    As a veteran SWTOR player, that worries me to all hell considering the only reason I bought it, is for the large scale PVP...something SWTOR was lacking in regarding the "performance department" to say the least.. I imagine this has been covered here, but I havent been able to find any recent posts.

    Should I be worried??

    the game runs great, i run it on med settings using a 550ti and get 60+ fps no lag, I can run it on high and ill get 50 fps, but im anal when it comes to fps i need a min of 60 fps to feel comfortable.

    the engine seems to be a mostly havoc not hero, I think they just used some parts of hero but mainly havoc, no worries trust me the game runs smooth from my end.

  • prowesssprowesss Member Posts: 69
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by prowesss

    There's a few things to consider...

     

    One, Bioware licensed HeroEngine when it was not yet productized and was in beta form.  HeroEngine of today is so much cleaner, more evolved, robust with features...  A great, solid framework with tremendous flexibility and portability.

     

    Two, ZOS has heavily modified the HeroEngine to meet their needs..  They've implemented tech from the Havok engine, like the water, trees, materials, AI, post-processing, etc...  

     

    Three, HeroEngine was selected for its suitability for their needs and comes with many features and functions they needed standard..  Things they only changed in superficial ways are functioning perfectly while things they've replaced or heavily modified, like the inventory/SQL backend, is the stuff that's falling apart.

    So you are saying the performance stays solid in large scale PVP, and doesn't lay a turd with more than 15 people on screen like SWTOR?

     

    Performance is definitely solid.  There are occasions where I'll see some frameskips, but these seem to have nothing to do with my immediate environment..  I've also heard of some people crashing like crazy but I've experienced nothing of the sort.

     

    Addendum:  I've seen hundreds on the screen without seeing any performance degradation.

    image
    I chose the Xfinity speed test because it does not reveal my ISP.

  • doodphacedoodphace Member UncommonPosts: 1,858
    Originally posted by Warjin
    Originally posted by doodphace

    So I caved in and bought ESO. While running the installer, I was presented with a fullscreen "Powered by Hero Engine", with the "hero engine" cleverly written to invoke images of a lightsaber. The game is still downloading atm, so I havent yet been able to try it out.

    As a veteran SWTOR player, that worries me to all hell considering the only reason I bought it, is for the large scale PVP...something SWTOR was lacking in regarding the "performance department" to say the least.. I imagine this has been covered here, but I havent been able to find any recent posts.

    Should I be worried??

    the game runs great, i run it on med settings using a 550ti and get 60+ fps no lag, I can run it on high and ill get 50 fps, but im anal when it comes to fps i need a min of 60 fps to feel comfortable.

    the engine seems to be a mostly havoc not hero, I think they just used some parts of hero but mainly havoc, no worries trust me the game runs smooth from my end.

    I guess thats a huge relief, that it runs fine with many players on screen.

    BTW, havoc  was used for physics and such, not as a game engine.

  • doodphacedoodphace Member UncommonPosts: 1,858
    Originally posted by prowesss
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by prowesss

    There's a few things to consider...

     

    One, Bioware licensed HeroEngine when it was not yet productized and was in beta form.  HeroEngine of today is so much cleaner, more evolved, robust with features...  A great, solid framework with tremendous flexibility and portability.

     

    Two, ZOS has heavily modified the HeroEngine to meet their needs..  They've implemented tech from the Havok engine, like the water, trees, materials, AI, post-processing, etc...  

     

    Three, HeroEngine was selected for its suitability for their needs and comes with many features and functions they needed standard..  Things they only changed in superficial ways are functioning perfectly while things they've replaced or heavily modified, like the inventory/SQL backend, is the stuff that's falling apart.

    So you are saying the performance stays solid in large scale PVP, and doesn't lay a turd with more than 15 people on screen like SWTOR?

     

    Performance is definitely solid.  There are occasions where I'll see some frameskips, but these seem to have nothing to do with my immediate environment..  I've also heard of some people crashing like crazy but I've experienced nothing of the sort.

     

    Addendum:  I've seen hundreds on the screen without seeing any performance degradation.

    Sweet, thanks for easing my fears!

    I get the shakes thinking of Ilum in SWTOR and the HERO engine :P

  • prowesssprowesss Member Posts: 69
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Warjin
    Originally posted by doodphace

    So I caved in and bought ESO. While running the installer, I was presented with a fullscreen "Powered by Hero Engine", with the "hero engine" cleverly written to invoke images of a lightsaber. The game is still downloading atm, so I havent yet been able to try it out.

    As a veteran SWTOR player, that worries me to all hell considering the only reason I bought it, is for the large scale PVP...something SWTOR was lacking in regarding the "performance department" to say the least.. I imagine this has been covered here, but I havent been able to find any recent posts.

    Should I be worried??

    the game runs great, i run it on med settings using a 550ti and get 60+ fps no lag, I can run it on high and ill get 50 fps, but im anal when it comes to fps i need a min of 60 fps to feel comfortable.

    the engine seems to be a mostly havoc not hero, I think they just used some parts of hero but mainly havoc, no worries trust me the game runs smooth from my end.

    I guess thats a huge relief, that it runs fine with many players on screen.

    BTW, havoc  was used for physics and such, not as a game engine.

    the Havoc product line has a lot of features...  to create their client software, it seems that they went through Havoc Vision and HeroEngine and picked the features that were best from each...  For instance, they're definitely using the water from Havoc Vision, and they're definitely using the grass (billboards) from HeroEngine...

     

    The SQL backend and a lot of the netcode was rewritten in-house and they, frankly, did a piss-poor job with a lot of it...

    image
    I chose the Xfinity speed test because it does not reveal my ISP.

  • WarjinWarjin Member UncommonPosts: 1,216
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Warjin
    Originally posted by doodphace

    So I caved in and bought ESO. While running the installer, I was presented with a fullscreen "Powered by Hero Engine", with the "hero engine" cleverly written to invoke images of a lightsaber. The game is still downloading atm, so I havent yet been able to try it out.

    As a veteran SWTOR player, that worries me to all hell considering the only reason I bought it, is for the large scale PVP...something SWTOR was lacking in regarding the "performance department" to say the least.. I imagine this has been covered here, but I havent been able to find any recent posts.

    Should I be worried??

    the game runs great, i run it on med settings using a 550ti and get 60+ fps no lag, I can run it on high and ill get 50 fps, but im anal when it comes to fps i need a min of 60 fps to feel comfortable.

    the engine seems to be a mostly havoc not hero, I think they just used some parts of hero but mainly havoc, no worries trust me the game runs smooth from my end.

    I guess thats a huge relief, that it runs fine with many players on screen.

    BTW, havoc  was used for physics and such, not as a game engine.

    O if thats the case then the Hero engine has been redeemed because what ever ESO has done with the Hero just proves to me that the Hero is not a bad engine at all then, I think Swtor just butchered the engine and gave it a bad name.

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx Member UncommonPosts: 2,039
    Originally posted by doodphace

    So I caved in and bought ESO. While running the installer, I was presented with a fullscreen "Powered by Hero Engine", with the "hero engine" cleverly written to invoke images of a lightsaber. The game is still downloading atm, so I havent yet been able to try it out.

    As a veteran SWTOR player, that worries me to all hell considering the only reason I bought it, is for the large scale PVP...something SWTOR was lacking in regarding the "performance department" to say the least.. I imagine this has been covered here, but I havent been able to find any recent posts.

    Should I be worried??

    You should have really waited. After reading all the current information about hacks, dupes, botters, bugs etc i seriously don't know how any new customer wouldn't want to wait.

  • NyghthowlerNyghthowler Member UncommonPosts: 392
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by doodphace

    So I caved in and bought ESO. While running the installer, I was presented with a fullscreen "Powered by Hero Engine", with the "hero engine" cleverly written to invoke images of a lightsaber. The game is still downloading atm, so I havent yet been able to try it out.

    As a veteran SWTOR player, that worries me to all hell considering the only reason I bought it, is for the large scale PVP...something SWTOR was lacking in regarding the "performance department" to say the least.. I imagine this has been covered here, but I havent been able to find any recent posts.

    Should I be worried??

    You should have really waited. After reading all the current information about hacks, dupes, botters, bugs etc i seriously don't know how any new customer wouldn't want to wait.

    And this contributed to the OP's question about the graphics engine's performance in PvP in what way?

     

  • BigdaddyxBigdaddyx Member UncommonPosts: 2,039
    Originally posted by Nyghthowler
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by doodphace

    So I caved in and bought ESO. While running the installer, I was presented with a fullscreen "Powered by Hero Engine", with the "hero engine" cleverly written to invoke images of a lightsaber. The game is still downloading atm, so I havent yet been able to try it out.

    As a veteran SWTOR player, that worries me to all hell considering the only reason I bought it, is for the large scale PVP...something SWTOR was lacking in regarding the "performance department" to say the least.. I imagine this has been covered here, but I havent been able to find any recent posts.

    Should I be worried??

    You should have really waited. After reading all the current information about hacks, dupes, botters, bugs etc i seriously don't know how any new customer wouldn't want to wait.

    And this contributed to the OP's question about the graphics engine's performance in PvP in what way?

     

    That his worries about hero engine should be the last thing on his mind while entering the game. Not like he can jump in PVP from level 1. He will still have to level through PVE till 50 before he joins the PVP.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Member Posts: 1,788
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Nyghthowler
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by doodphace

    So I caved in and bought ESO. While running the installer, I was presented with a fullscreen "Powered by Hero Engine", with the "hero engine" cleverly written to invoke images of a lightsaber. The game is still downloading atm, so I havent yet been able to try it out.

    As a veteran SWTOR player, that worries me to all hell considering the only reason I bought it, is for the large scale PVP...something SWTOR was lacking in regarding the "performance department" to say the least.. I imagine this has been covered here, but I havent been able to find any recent posts.

    Should I be worried??

    You should have really waited. After reading all the current information about hacks, dupes, botters, bugs etc i seriously don't know how any new customer wouldn't want to wait.

    And this contributed to the OP's question about the graphics engine's performance in PvP in what way?

     

    That his worries about hero engine should be the last thing on his mind while entering the game. Not like he can jump in PVP from level 1. He will still have to level through PVE till 50 before he joins the PVP.

    You can start PVP at level 10.

    You make me like charity

  • prowesssprowesss Member Posts: 69
    Originally posted by Warjin
    Originally posted by doodphace
    Originally posted by Warjin
    Originally posted by doodphace

    So I caved in and bought ESO. While running the installer, I was presented with a fullscreen "Powered by Hero Engine", with the "hero engine" cleverly written to invoke images of a lightsaber. The game is still downloading atm, so I havent yet been able to try it out.

    As a veteran SWTOR player, that worries me to all hell considering the only reason I bought it, is for the large scale PVP...something SWTOR was lacking in regarding the "performance department" to say the least.. I imagine this has been covered here, but I havent been able to find any recent posts.

    Should I be worried??

    the game runs great, i run it on med settings using a 550ti and get 60+ fps no lag, I can run it on high and ill get 50 fps, but im anal when it comes to fps i need a min of 60 fps to feel comfortable.

    the engine seems to be a mostly havoc not hero, I think they just used some parts of hero but mainly havoc, no worries trust me the game runs smooth from my end.

    I guess thats a huge relief, that it runs fine with many players on screen.

    BTW, havoc  was used for physics and such, not as a game engine.

    O if thats the case then the Hero engine has been redeemed because what ever ESO has done with the Hero just proves to me that the Hero is not a bad engine at all then, I think Swtor just butchered the engine and gave it a bad name.

    SWTOR was developed using an alpha or beta version of HeroEngine...  It was totally incomplete and the EA/Bioware team took over development to finish it for themselves...  They did not finish it properly.

     

    I have a HeroCloud..  It's pretty damned amazing.  A seriously awesome engine and I was more disappointed that ZOS attempted to lie and cover-up the fact that they're using it than anything else...  They should have defended their decision because it is the RIGHT decision...  HeroEngine is fantastic..  SWTOR is not a good example of what the engine is capable of.

    image
    I chose the Xfinity speed test because it does not reveal my ISP.

  • prowesssprowesss Member Posts: 69
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by Nyghthowler
    Originally posted by Bigdaddyx
    Originally posted by doodphace

    So I caved in and bought ESO. While running the installer, I was presented with a fullscreen "Powered by Hero Engine", with the "hero engine" cleverly written to invoke images of a lightsaber. The game is still downloading atm, so I havent yet been able to try it out.

    As a veteran SWTOR player, that worries me to all hell considering the only reason I bought it, is for the large scale PVP...something SWTOR was lacking in regarding the "performance department" to say the least.. I imagine this has been covered here, but I havent been able to find any recent posts.

    Should I be worried??

    You should have really waited. After reading all the current information about hacks, dupes, botters, bugs etc i seriously don't know how any new customer wouldn't want to wait.

    And this contributed to the OP's question about the graphics engine's performance in PvP in what way?

     

    That his worries about hero engine should be the last thing on his mind while entering the game. Not like he can jump in PVP from level 1. He will still have to level through PVE till 50 before he joins the PVP.

    You can start PVP at level 10.

    In fact, at level 14, a V2 sorc got the drop on me..  Blasted me down to 1/3rd HP..  I healed up and started smacking him and actually won the fight.

     

    There are a LOT of problems with ESO...  and PvP has A LOT of room for improvement...  but AvA is pretty epic.

    image
    I chose the Xfinity speed test because it does not reveal my ISP.

  • MagikarpsGhostMagikarpsGhost Member RarePosts: 689
    Honestly i ru nthe game on high and have not hit any lag even in AvA. and i joined at lvl 10 at a nightblade..managed to actually kill some higher levels because i got the stealth bonus in on my first strike and then tore them down fro mthere. i am not one for PVP but i found this one quite fun.

    free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!

    Click here for trove referral, bonuses to both!

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Yes that they lied about using it to begin with but no that it is being used (it is quite a potent engine if used well, check out the Repopulation for an example of it being used ostensibly to its limits).

    image
  • skeaserskeaser Member RarePosts: 4,216

    The game doesn't run on the HeroEngine, they just used it for prototyping/testing. The game runs on their own engine.

    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx

    http://elderscrollsonline.info/news/about-game-engine

    Sig so that badges don't eat my posts.


  • PAL-18PAL-18 Member UncommonPosts: 844

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm?thread=410484&page=2&val=1&uh=A1D8CBCA9B3E0F9419962693D28D5F74

     

    I can confirm this,i played in beta and ability lags were huge but i played from EU so that might be the cause of it.Also there was far more fatal problems in the beta and  this was not the main issue back  then.No idea have they fixed it but the ability lag sure was there.

     

    So, did ESO have a successful launch? Yes, yes it did.By Ryan Getchell on April 02, 2014.
    **On the radar: http://www.cyberpunk.net/ **

  • prowesssprowesss Member Posts: 69
    Originally posted by skeaser

    The game doesn't run on the HeroEngine, they just used it for prototyping/testing. The game runs on their own engine.

    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx

    http://elderscrollsonline.info/news/about-game-engine

    We've already seen this junk...  I can't believe you linked that .info site...

     

    The game DOES run HeroEngine.

    Quote from the article posted in 2012:

    "There are no compromises with the technology that we’re using – everything in the game’s engine was written for this game, with no extraneous code, features, or tools."

    Then why do they display the Havok splash screen?  This article was just a poor/silly attempt to deflect some of the bad press associated with SWTOR.

    image
    I chose the Xfinity speed test because it does not reveal my ISP.

  • JeroKaneJeroKane Member EpicPosts: 7,099
    Originally posted by prowesss
    Originally posted by skeaser

    The game doesn't run on the HeroEngine, they just used it for prototyping/testing. The game runs on their own engine.

    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx

    http://elderscrollsonline.info/news/about-game-engine

    We've already seen this junk...  I can't believe you linked that .info site...

     

    The game DOES run HeroEngine.

    Quote from the article posted in 2012:

    "There are no compromises with the technology that we’re using – everything in the game’s engine was written for this game, with no extraneous code, features, or tools."

    Then why do they display the Havok splash screen?  This article was just a poor/silly attempt to deflect some of the bad press associated with SWTOR.

    The HeroEngine splashscreen has dissapeared over a week ago with a patch.

    Go figure!  If they really used the HeroEngine, I don't think they are allowed to remove the splashscreen! CopyRights and all.

  • DihoruDihoru Member Posts: 2,731
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by prowesss
    Originally posted by skeaser

    The game doesn't run on the HeroEngine, they just used it for prototyping/testing. The game runs on their own engine.

    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx

    http://elderscrollsonline.info/news/about-game-engine

    We've already seen this junk...  I can't believe you linked that .info site...

     

    The game DOES run HeroEngine.

    Quote from the article posted in 2012:

    "There are no compromises with the technology that we’re using – everything in the game’s engine was written for this game, with no extraneous code, features, or tools."

    Then why do they display the Havok splash screen?  This article was just a poor/silly attempt to deflect some of the bad press associated with SWTOR.

    The HeroEngine splashscreen has dissapeared over a week ago with a patch.

    Go figure!  If they really used the HeroEngine, I don't think they are allowed to remove the splashscreen! CopyRights and all.

    Then the question is why was it in there to begin with? Not saying they are breaching copyright right now but why was the launch build still displaying something that was used in the pre-alpha stage of the game just for prototyping? (hint: no reasonable answer will be a good thing for the game)

    image
  • prowesssprowesss Member Posts: 69
    As someone who owns a license for hero engine,i can tell you that they license you to be able to gut the engine, splice it any way you want, and never give credit anywhere in your game. Does swtor have a hero engine splash screen?

    Havok's license requires you to display a splash screen.

    image
    I chose the Xfinity speed test because it does not reveal my ISP.

  • ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495
    Originally posted by doodphace

    So I caved in and bought ESO. While running the installer, I was presented with a fullscreen "Powered by Hero Engine", with the "hero engine" cleverly written to invoke images of a lightsaber. The game is still downloading atm, so I havent yet been able to try it out.

    As a veteran SWTOR player, that worries me to all hell considering the only reason I bought it, is for the large scale PVP...something SWTOR was lacking in regarding the "performance department" to say the least.. I imagine this has been covered here, but I havent been able to find any recent posts.

    Should I be worried??

     

    ESO large scale PVP battle

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Originally posted by Dihoru
    Originally posted by JeroKane
    Originally posted by prowesss
    Originally posted by skeaser

    The game doesn't run on the HeroEngine, they just used it for prototyping/testing. The game runs on their own engine.

    http://www.gameinformer.com/b/features/archive/2012/05/25/why-the-elder-scrolls-online-isn-39-t-using-heroengine.aspx

    http://elderscrollsonline.info/news/about-game-engine

    We've already seen this junk...  I can't believe you linked that .info site...

     

    The game DOES run HeroEngine.

    Quote from the article posted in 2012:

    "There are no compromises with the technology that we’re using – everything in the game’s engine was written for this game, with no extraneous code, features, or tools."

    Then why do they display the Havok splash screen?  This article was just a poor/silly attempt to deflect some of the bad press associated with SWTOR.

    The HeroEngine splashscreen has dissapeared over a week ago with a patch.

    Go figure!  If they really used the HeroEngine, I don't think they are allowed to remove the splashscreen! CopyRights and all.

    Then the question is why was it in there to begin with? Not saying they are breaching copyright right now but why was the launch build still displaying something that was used in the pre-alpha stage of the game just for prototyping? (hint: no reasonable answer will be a good thing for the game)

    with all the bugs etc, it might just be it was one that slipped through, on the other hand, it is reassuring that their not using the Hero Engine, all things considered. All they have to do now is fix all the bugs, there are way too many of them really.image

  • AjukrajziAjukrajzi Member UncommonPosts: 13

    My rig isnt the best, pretty outdated. 

    AMD 3.4 Quad

    Radeon 6950HD

    8gb ddr3 ram

    sata 500gb hdd

    And i run the game very well on high-settings and with shadows off. I played swtor aswell, and my rig had much more problems in that game. 

This discussion has been closed.