Originally posted by ohioastro There is a contingent that simply wants to see the game go the microtransaction route. These issues aren't problems to them, they're weapons to use to argue for what they want.
My view is a variation on that theme. In its current state I just don't think the game is worth 15 bucks a month. Whilst it's not as bad as Dark and Light (for example) this is easily in as bad a state as say Vanguard at launch. The game is great fun and infuriates in equal measure.
Good thing that all these dupes and exploits are coming to light this early. It means fewer surprises and problems later on.
It will serve as a fine wake-up call for the devs, just in case they were wearing rose tinted glasses and didn't realise what their playerbase was capable of. The amicable relationship between the devs and the beta testers ends the moment the game goes live. From that moment on, it's open war.
I don't think this game will go F2P this year, but it's hard not to notice the effects the bugs have had. People aren't talking about this stuff in chat? What game are you playing. Between the spam I've seen a ton of people expressing their worry over the state of the game in light of the numerous dupe bugs. It's just calmer and more civil than it is in other games. Most of the time at least.
I have already cancelled my 3 month sub. Not because of the dupe bugs, but because of the way Zenimax is addressing, or isn't addressing these issues. They have over the last few weeks and the last few betas shown that they are not a good developer, that they do not care about bug fixing, or players in general. ESO is a game 7 years in the making that still feels rushed. The whole recommending a third party site to do you auctioning is simply pathetic for example.
I don't blame you for dropping your sub, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place after what we saw the last week of beta with no push backs. That's why I"m still sitting on the fence.
Yet, I can't agree that "they do not care about bug fixing..or players in general". No company thinks like that, not those that want to make money and be successful anyway. They're either A: under equipped to deal with the level of issues they have right now or B have not found a working long term solution as of yet for them.
They have multiple known Dupes, they have many broken quests, they have a new issue with load screens of death (server time outs). They have an issue with terrain and navmeshes (falling through the ground/teleports), They have multiple ban cases to go through, etc.. etc.. etc..
There's no miracle patch coming, there never was, just like any other case, issues will be dealt with as they're solved and resolved. There's no time table on that they can give. This is essentially mmo-playing 101.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
It's a decent game.. I know they'd never do it at this point but what really needs to be done is for the game to be shut down completely and relaunched when they fix all the exploits and griefing opportunities. It's getting worse and worse... they need the give in, accept they've fucked up and do the right thing but they obviously won't.
I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.
Whats strange about this mmo is you get like great stuff for doing nothing yet that boss and the like you get maybe a white or nothing. I just did one with someone. They were waiting so we killed the things that make the boss spawn and those were really hard. The boss spawns and just a few hits its dead. Hmm the BOSS should be really hard.. lol how they miss this kind of stuff I dont know.
Still having fun.
He would have been hard solo. Or with a few people.
Yesterday i wiped 10x in a 43 lvl dungeon as a healer in a PUG group because people think they can stand still or not contribute or even move.. You know that red circle under your feet? Dont stand in it..
World bosses are hard to balance because you never know how many people that will turn up, but they dont gove much xp or loot for the same reason.
I don't think this game will go F2P this year, but it's hard not to notice the effects the bugs have had. People aren't talking about this stuff in chat? What game are you playing. Between the spam I've seen a ton of people expressing their worry over the state of the game in light of the numerous dupe bugs. It's just calmer and more civil than it is in other games. Most of the time at least.
I have already cancelled my 3 month sub. Not because of the dupe bugs, but because of the way Zenimax is addressing, or isn't addressing these issues. They have over the last few weeks and the last few betas shown that they are not a good developer, that they do not care about bug fixing, or players in general. ESO is a game 7 years in the making that still feels rushed. The whole recommending a third party site to do you auctioning is simply pathetic for example.
I don't blame you for dropping your sub, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place after what we saw the last week of beta with no push backs. That's why I"m still sitting on the fence.
Yet, I can't agree that "they do not care about bug fixing..or players in general". No company thinks like that, not those that want to make money and be successful anyway. They're either A: under equipped to deal with the level of issues they have right now or B have not found a working long term solution as of yet for them.
They have multiple known Dupes, they have many broken quests, they have a new issue with load screens of death (server time outs). They have an issue with terrain and navmeshes (falling through the ground/teleports), They have multiple ban cases to go through, etc.. etc.. etc..
There's no miracle patch coming, there never was, just like any other case, issues will be dealt with as they're solved and resolved. There's no time table on that they can give. This is essentially mmo-playing 101.
Well, it is true that I am speaking through bitter disapointment when I say that they do not care, thus there is some exageration. On the other hand I simply believe that to be true. It could be Zenimax the publisher being cheap and not giving enough people to Zenimax the studio. So the devs could be trying to do well by the customers, but are incapable because of the limitations from up top. The thing is, I do not care. A harsh thing to say, but what goes on within a company is not my problem. I simply expect a product that meets expectations.
I would be more inclined to believe in the good intentions of Zenimax if the bugs have not been around since a few betas ago. There are of course new ones popping up, that is the nature of things, but at least two dupe bugs were known and wildly reported during the betas.
All that being said I still hope that ESO becomes a game worthy of the Elder Scrolls title, but for now I write it off as yet another disapointing mmo. Think I have to stop and just go back to shooters.
I don't think this game will go F2P this year, but it's hard not to notice the effects the bugs have had. People aren't talking about this stuff in chat? What game are you playing. Between the spam I've seen a ton of people expressing their worry over the state of the game in light of the numerous dupe bugs. It's just calmer and more civil than it is in other games. Most of the time at least.
I have already cancelled my 3 month sub. Not because of the dupe bugs, but because of the way Zenimax is addressing, or isn't addressing these issues. They have over the last few weeks and the last few betas shown that they are not a good developer, that they do not care about bug fixing, or players in general. ESO is a game 7 years in the making that still feels rushed. The whole recommending a third party site to do you auctioning is simply pathetic for example.
I don't blame you for dropping your sub, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place after what we saw the last week of beta with no push backs. That's why I"m still sitting on the fence.
Yet, I can't agree that "they do not care about bug fixing..or players in general". No company thinks like that, not those that want to make money and be successful anyway. They're either A: under equipped to deal with the level of issues they have right now or B have not found a working long term solution as of yet for them.
They have multiple known Dupes, they have many broken quests, they have a new issue with load screens of death (server time outs). They have an issue with terrain and navmeshes (falling through the ground/teleports), They have multiple ban cases to go through, etc.. etc.. etc..
There's no miracle patch coming, there never was, just like any other case, issues will be dealt with as they're solved and resolved. There's no time table on that they can give. This is essentially mmo-playing 101.
Well, it is true that I am speaking through bitter disapointment when I say that they do not care, thus there is some exageration. On the other hand I simply believe that to be true. It could be Zenimax the publisher being cheap and not giving enough people to Zenimax the studio. So the devs could be trying to do well by the customers, but are incapable because of the limitations from up top. The thing is, I do not care. A harsh thing to say, but what goes on within a company is not my problem. I simply expect a product that meets expectations.
I would be more inclined to believe in the good intentions of Zenimax if the bugs have not been around since a few betas ago. There are of course new ones popping up, that is the nature of things, but at least two dupe bugs were known and wildly reported during the betas.
All that being said I still hope that ESO becomes a game worthy of the Elder Scrolls title, but for now I write it off as yet another disapointing mmo. Think I have to stop and just go back to shooters.
Like I said I don't think you made a bad decision, and you're right you have every right to believe what you want when you're spending your money/time on a product. I didn't mean to imply otherwise I hope I didn't..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
As if some bugged quests and some duping are reasons enough to quit? If you really like the game you play anyway...no?
Poeople really have a short memory when it comes to releases.
Yes it has gold sellers, dupers, spammers and some quests thats not working at realese. The question you need to ask yourself is still if you enjoy the game?
If you think ranting on MMORPG.com about how unfair things are and ragequitting will help these things get fixed faster you are WRONG.
As if some bugged quests and some duping are reasons enough to quit? If you really like the game you play anyway...no?
Poeople really have a short memory when it comes to releases.
Yes it has gold sellers, dupers, spammers and some quests thats not working at realese. The question you need to ask yourself is still if you enjoy the game?
If you think ranting on MMORPG.com about how unfair things are and ragequitting will help these things get fixed faster you are WRONG.
You say "some duping" but when those "some duping" turn into wrecked economy? Cause, since this is an mmo, the economy matters. As in, it is an integral part of the game. I can deal with buggy quests. It's harder with a mess of an economy and the looming prospect of rollbacks. Frankly I have not experianced a rollback in years. That was a thing 10 years ago, but in recent times I think only Neverwinter resorted to it.
As if some bugged quests and some duping are reasons enough to quit? If you really like the game you play anyway...no?
Poeople really have a short memory when it comes to releases.
Yes it has gold sellers, dupers, spammers and some quests thats not working at realese. The question you need to ask yourself is still if you enjoy the game?
If you think ranting on MMORPG.com about how unfair things are and ragequitting will help these things get fixed faster you are WRONG.
You say "some duping" but when those "some duping" turn into wrecked economy? Cause, since this is an mmo, the economy matters. As in, it is an integral part of the game. I can deal with buggy quests. It's harder with a mess of an economy and the looming prospect of rollbacks. Frankly I have not experianced a rollback in years. That was a thing 10 years ago, but in recent times I think only Neverwinter resorted to it.
What does the community really know besides somebody has been duping?
If they ban the accounts with obscene ammounts of money and rare items it will be minimal fallout on the economy IMO.
Rare items will turn into bad items as gear progression goes on, so i cant see an issue there?
Will some get away and profit on this? Yes im sure they will...but its still just pixels and it wont help them much in the long run. So why let it bother you? I cant see myself dying more in PvP because of this...... PvE?...does it matter?
All i see is a company struggling at realease because their beta crowd has held back info on dupes until release. Gamebreaking?...i dont think so, its more annoying that i cant play today because they have taken the servers down to fix it.
When it comes to rollbacks its annoying as hell, but if you ragequit because of that ill just laugh. Sorry
As if some bugged quests and some duping are reasons enough to quit? If you really like the game you play anyway...no?
Poeople really have a short memory when it comes to releases.
Yes it has gold sellers, dupers, spammers and some quests thats not working at realese. The question you need to ask yourself is still if you enjoy the game?
If you think ranting on MMORPG.com about how unfair things are and ragequitting will help these things get fixed faster you are WRONG.
You say "some duping" but when those "some duping" turn into wrecked economy? Cause, since this is an mmo, the economy matters. As in, it is an integral part of the game. I can deal with buggy quests. It's harder with a mess of an economy and the looming prospect of rollbacks. Frankly I have not experianced a rollback in years. That was a thing 10 years ago, but in recent times I think only Neverwinter resorted to it.
What does the community really know besides somebody has been duping?
If they ban the accounts with obscene ammounts of money and rare items it will be minimal fallout on the economy IMO.
Rare items will turn into bad items as gear progression goes on, so i cant see an issue there?
Will some get away and profit on this? Yes im sure they will...but its still just pixels and it wont help them much in the long run. So why let it bother you? I cant see myself dying more in PvP because of this...... PvE?...does it matter?
All i see is a company struggling at realease because their beta crowd has held back info on dupes until release. Gamebreaking?...i dont think so, its more annoying that i cant play today because they have taken the servers down to fix it.
When it comes to rollbacks its annoying as hell, but if you ragequit because of that ill just laugh. Sorry
"their beta crowd has held back info on dupes until release" Really now...So it is the fault of the players that these dupes exist? It's the fault of the customer that the product does not work as intended? Even though the dupe bugs were reported. Often. Everywhere. Prior to release.
As if some bugged quests and some duping are reasons enough to quit? If you really like the game you play anyway...no?
Poeople really have a short memory when it comes to releases.
Yes it has gold sellers, dupers, spammers and some quests thats not working at realese. The question you need to ask yourself is still if you enjoy the game?
If you think ranting on MMORPG.com about how unfair things are and ragequitting will help these things get fixed faster you are WRONG.
You say "some duping" but when those "some duping" turn into wrecked economy? Cause, since this is an mmo, the economy matters. As in, it is an integral part of the game. I can deal with buggy quests. It's harder with a mess of an economy and the looming prospect of rollbacks. Frankly I have not experianced a rollback in years. That was a thing 10 years ago, but in recent times I think only Neverwinter resorted to it.
What does the community really know besides somebody has been duping?
If they ban the accounts with obscene ammounts of money and rare items it will be minimal fallout on the economy IMO.
Rare items will turn into bad items as gear progression goes on, so i cant see an issue there?
Will some get away and profit on this? Yes im sure they will...but its still just pixels and it wont help them much in the long run. So why let it bother you? I cant see myself dying more in PvP because of this...... PvE?...does it matter?
All i see is a company struggling at realease because their beta crowd has held back info on dupes until release. Gamebreaking?...i dont think so, its more annoying that i cant play today because they have taken the servers down to fix it.
When it comes to rollbacks its annoying as hell, but if you ragequit because of that ill just laugh. Sorry
"their beta crowd has held back info on dupes until release" Really now...So it is the fault of the players that these dupes exist? It's the fault of the customer that the product does not work as intended? Even though the dupe bugs were reported. Often. Everywhere. Prior to release.
What is your point exactly? Do you want all of us to stop playing to teach them a lesson?
Yes they released the game without it beeing completly finished. Wich developer hasnt done that to start earning money? Every day the game is in production they loose money. Its simple math IMO. I wish things were differently, but they arent.
I do enjoy the game besides the flaws, so ill keep playing.
You however are free to ragequit if you want, but it wont help you or the developer...
As if some bugged quests and some duping are reasons enough to quit? If you really like the game you play anyway...no?
Poeople really have a short memory when it comes to releases.
Yes it has gold sellers, dupers, spammers and some quests thats not working at realese. The question you need to ask yourself is still if you enjoy the game?
If you think ranting on MMORPG.com about how unfair things are and ragequitting will help these things get fixed faster you are WRONG.
You say "some duping" but when those "some duping" turn into wrecked economy? Cause, since this is an mmo, the economy matters. As in, it is an integral part of the game. I can deal with buggy quests. It's harder with a mess of an economy and the looming prospect of rollbacks. Frankly I have not experianced a rollback in years. That was a thing 10 years ago, but in recent times I think only Neverwinter resorted to it.
What does the community really know besides somebody has been duping?
If they ban the accounts with obscene ammounts of money and rare items it will be minimal fallout on the economy IMO.
Rare items will turn into bad items as gear progression goes on, so i cant see an issue there?
Will some get away and profit on this? Yes im sure they will...but its still just pixels and it wont help them much in the long run. So why let it bother you? I cant see myself dying more in PvP because of this...... PvE?...does it matter?
All i see is a company struggling at realease because their beta crowd has held back info on dupes until release. Gamebreaking?...i dont think so, its more annoying that i cant play today because they have taken the servers down to fix it.
When it comes to rollbacks its annoying as hell, but if you ragequit because of that ill just laugh. Sorry
"their beta crowd has held back info on dupes until release" Really now...So it is the fault of the players that these dupes exist? It's the fault of the customer that the product does not work as intended? Even though the dupe bugs were reported. Often. Everywhere. Prior to release.
Every software product comes with bugs... and its up to the testing crowd to chase these bugs, as its almost impossible for developers to find their own bugs a lot of the time... because people are mostly blind to their own flaws..
Basically the difference between MMO bug hunting and general game bughunting is the fact that in MMO´s finding bugs in beta and not reporting them can be very very benificial when the game releases.
This is a problem for all developers... find truely trustworthy testers...
Personally i dont see a sollution for this development problem any time soon...... Almost all future games will face the same problem, and the more popular the game is, the more valluable a benificial bug will be, when selling to goldfarmers and such ...
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The only thing i can see that would work for detecting these unfair players, is an open ranking of wealthiest players in game.... not only counting gold, but also vallue of items and bankstuff and gear...
With a system like this that logs everything, it will be quite easy to find out cheeters and goldsellers... and kill them off...
Because in the end, its allways the players that are cheeting, and sadly they will allways out trick the developers..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
So, if a small portion of idiots choose to item dupe, and risk their accounts, let them get their asses banned. It doesn't affect my gameplay at all. Even if they get away with item duping, it still does not affect me in the least. I do not base my gaming on the value of items in a game. Personally, it is way more fun trying to find loot on my own, throughout the game world.
I am starting to see this kind of "i don't care it has exploits / cheats in the game, so what, i will keep playing" posts.
Interesting approach. There is one other game out there with a player base exactly like this too, it is called.. Knight Online.
Please don't do this. This kind of approach is.. childish. Basically you are closing your eyes and pretend there is nothing wrong. Why? This won't make your favourite game better. It will make it worse. So keep subbing, keep posting positive comments about the game, but please, please do not act like exploits are not a problem. It serves nothing.
You can criticize this exploit and still play the game, love the game, support the developer, it is completely normal. But don't be a blind defender, you are ruining your own game.
Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)
As if some bugged quests and some duping are reasons enough to quit? If you really like the game you play anyway...no?
Poeople really have a short memory when it comes to releases.
Yes it has gold sellers, dupers, spammers and some quests thats not working at realese. The question you need to ask yourself is still if you enjoy the game?
If you think ranting on MMORPG.com about how unfair things are and ragequitting will help these things get fixed faster you are WRONG.
Nope.
Not all of us are weak willed hopeless addicts. I understand bugs and all but all these dupes and exploits left a bad taste in my mouth. So i cancelled my sub and it was quite a relief.
By the way if more players grow a back bone and cancel their subs then yes there is a chance that Zenimax would consider permanent bans instead of just slapping a warning on wrist of exploiters. Reading players bragging about getting away with exploits in guild chat made me sick to my stomach and i refuse to support such a company who can not even act firmly with such people.
So, if a small portion of idiots choose to item dupe, and risk their accounts, let them get their asses banned. It doesn't affect my gameplay at all. Even if they get away with item duping, it still does not affect me in the least. I do not base my gaming on the value of items in a game. Personally, it is way more fun trying to find loot on my own, throughout the game world.
I am starting to see this kind of "i don't care it has exploits / cheats in the game, so what, i will keep playing" posts.
Interesting approach. There is one other game out there with a player base exactly like this too, it is called.. Knight Online.
Please don't do this. This kind of approach is.. childish. Basically you are closing your eyes and pretend there is nothing wrong. Why? This won't make your favourite game better. It will make it worse. So keep subbing, keep posting positive comments about the game, but please, please do not act like exploits are not a problem. It serves nothing.
You can criticize this exploit and still play the game, love the game, support the developer, it is completely normal. But don't be a blind defender, you are ruining your own game.
How about the " i care, but i keep playing because its still fun" attitude, it think thats what these players really mean to say...
Everyone cares, but most people will not let it ruin the fun..
As said many many times before, this PC release currently is only the extended beta before the more important console release....
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I cancelled my sub due to the poor pvp balance, clunky combat that gets stuck animations all the time and the unresponsiveness of it. Despite all the bugs, which I found a LOT, gameplay-wise the game was too frustrating to play.
Taking these all these bugs into consideration, adding to the weak ESO vision Zenimax launched with, its really hard to find a way to feel your money's worth.
Unfortunately without people's support the game will be forced to act in order to remain profitable, this could mean 2 things:
_ They change the business model and the game suffers for it, just like SWTOR did. They ll spend months if not an entire year adapting the game to the new business model and everything else the game needs at the moment gets pushed back for who knows how long.
_They actually take all the heat, confident on their upcoming work for the game, stick to their vision and fix the game hoping players will resub.
I'll probably resub and give them a chance to make things right. Even with all the clunkiness and bugs, its hard not to see the potential the game has. It's beautiful, full of story that gives immersion ( too much story though a MMO can't focus on this ) , and it runs smoothly great even with a sh%#load of players on screen.
If people cut their support now, the game will most likely just go downhill from here onwards.
The worst thing is, there is nothing Zenimax can do at this point. Not with the current megaservers anyway, they are FUBAR. The duping is alive and well, beside the well known hierling dupes there are even more ways to duplicate items in this game. I guess until another YT video Zenimax will do nothing.
But at this point - it does not matter anyway.
Banning does not even touch the problem - they will not ban all people who bought the duped materials from guildstores, used them to powerlevel their crafting and made their own legenderies, there is too many of them. Some of them did not even know about the duping, they just felt lucky finding a stack of some legendary runes for modes 10k gold etc. Even if they can track them somehow, what reason will you give them all to ban them: you bought something from a guildstore too cheaply? The accounts that were duping were just patsies, made solely for that purpose. You think ppl are so stupid to do this on their main accounts? LoL, the guys that were doing this in my guild were even using VPN and separated Paypal account for the duping account so the logs could not trace and connect it's IP adress with their mains that actually profited form all the duping.
Right now the F2P is out of the question - realize folks that the entry fee and subscription model is the only thing that keeps more botters, exploiters, goldsellers etc. to some point at bay. Make it F2P and they will just flood the game. There already are more botts than players in public dungeons .
The worst thing is, there is nothing Zenimax can do at this point. Not with the current megaservers anyway, they are FUBAR. The duping is alive and well, beside the well known hierling dupes there are even more ways to duplicate items in this game. I guess until another YT video Zenimax will do nothing.
But at this point - it does not matter anyway.
Banning does not even touch the problem - they will not ban all people who bought the duped materials from guildstores, used them to powerlevel their crafting and made their own legenderies, there is too many of them. Some of them did not even know about the duping, they just felt lucky finding a stack of some legendary runes for modes 10k gold etc. Even if they can track them somehow, what reason will you give them all to ban them: you bought something from a guildstore too cheaply? The accounts that were duping were just patsies, made solely for that purpose. You think ppl are so stupid to do this on their main accounts? LoL, the guys that were doing this in my guild were even using VPN and separated Paypal account for the duping account so the logs could not trace and connect it's IP adress with their mains that actually profited form all the duping.
Right now the F2P is out of the question - realize folks that the entry fee and subscription model is the only thing that keeps more botters, exploiters, goldsellers etc. to some point at bay. Make it F2P and they will just flood the game. There already are more botts than players in public dungeons .
a/ VPN used to hide IP but connects to second paypal account which identifies user (ie 2nd bank acc) duh...
b/ VPN used to hide IP and connects to paypal account using false details, definitely illegal.
None of the above. They just used a legal verifeid paypal account of some friends that do not even play mmos. You can use your mom's or uncle's account to pay for the game anyway. The person who owns the account does not have to be the same one that pays for the subscription.
And I like being in this guild - have more insight to what is really going on than Zenimax.
Dupes have an impact. And Zenimax seem to be struggling to contain the issue. Should they adopt a different approach and focus on other things?
The impact??
As far as PvE goes it means that players can get "better gear" thus making PvE easier for them. People who like to "win" at PvE - be the first to clear the raid boss etc. - might be upset at this but most "casual" PvE players probably couldn't care.
PvP: potential big impact here. Better gear may give players only a small bonus but when everything else is balanced this will make a difference.
Current approach
fix bugs, find any other bugs, fix those
track down all dupe items, remove items, decide whether deliberate or not, take action - return money if accidental
Options?
Rollbacks - being talked about; very hard to just roll-back the economy though
Make items freely available to everyone if they want them.
This will level the PvP field for sure;
PvE - as is - those who want get, those who want the personal achievement don't
Makes bots pointless!
Destroys trade - but with no global AH and no guild AHs atm ....
Duping is bad but it's not the major concern for me, as long as the economy is not permanent destroyed. I've been on vacation for a week so I don't know what's going on ingame, but if non dupeable items like rare motifs are now worth millions for example that might be a concern, or not depending if I'm selling or buying.
I'm more concerned with bugged quests, broken dungeons, players who ninja chests in dungeons, as that affect my gameplay more dirrectly.
There are a lot of methods for duping in this game, but the ones you know are the ones people let you know... but there are at least 2 more that I have never seen anyone mention.
Needless to say these dupes will go to the grave with the people who found them.
Oh and not to mention the teleport hack for farming under the nodes...
As if some bugged quests and some duping are reasons enough to quit? If you really like the game you play anyway...no?
Poeople really have a short memory when it comes to releases.
Yes it has gold sellers, dupers, spammers and some quests thats not working at realese. The question you need to ask yourself is still if you enjoy the game?
If you think ranting on MMORPG.com about how unfair things are and ragequitting will help these things get fixed faster you are WRONG.
You say "some duping" but when those "some duping" turn into wrecked economy? Cause, since this is an mmo, the economy matters. As in, it is an integral part of the game. I can deal with buggy quests. It's harder with a mess of an economy and the looming prospect of rollbacks. Frankly I have not experianced a rollback in years. That was a thing 10 years ago, but in recent times I think only Neverwinter resorted to it.
What does the community really know besides somebody has been duping?
If they ban the accounts with obscene ammounts of money and rare items it will be minimal fallout on the economy IMO.
Rare items will turn into bad items as gear progression goes on, so i cant see an issue there?
Will some get away and profit on this? Yes im sure they will...but its still just pixels and it wont help them much in the long run. So why let it bother you? I cant see myself dying more in PvP because of this...... PvE?...does it matter?
All i see is a company struggling at realease because their beta crowd has held back info on dupes until release. Gamebreaking?...i dont think so, its more annoying that i cant play today because they have taken the servers down to fix it.
When it comes to rollbacks its annoying as hell, but if you ragequit because of that ill just laugh. Sorry
"their beta crowd has held back info on dupes until release" Really now...So it is the fault of the players that these dupes exist? It's the fault of the customer that the product does not work as intended? Even though the dupe bugs were reported. Often. Everywhere. Prior to release.
Yep...that's what he is suggesting as far as I can tell
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My view is a variation on that theme. In its current state I just don't think the game is worth 15 bucks a month. Whilst it's not as bad as Dark and Light (for example) this is easily in as bad a state as say Vanguard at launch. The game is great fun and infuriates in equal measure.
Good thing that all these dupes and exploits are coming to light this early. It means fewer surprises and problems later on.
It will serve as a fine wake-up call for the devs, just in case they were wearing rose tinted glasses and didn't realise what their playerbase was capable of. The amicable relationship between the devs and the beta testers ends the moment the game goes live. From that moment on, it's open war.
I don't blame you for dropping your sub, I wouldn't have bought it in the first place after what we saw the last week of beta with no push backs. That's why I"m still sitting on the fence.
Yet, I can't agree that "they do not care about bug fixing..or players in general". No company thinks like that, not those that want to make money and be successful anyway. They're either A: under equipped to deal with the level of issues they have right now or B have not found a working long term solution as of yet for them.
They have multiple known Dupes, they have many broken quests, they have a new issue with load screens of death (server time outs). They have an issue with terrain and navmeshes (falling through the ground/teleports), They have multiple ban cases to go through, etc.. etc.. etc..
There's no miracle patch coming, there never was, just like any other case, issues will be dealt with as they're solved and resolved. There's no time table on that they can give. This is essentially mmo-playing 101.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
He would have been hard solo. Or with a few people.
Yesterday i wiped 10x in a 43 lvl dungeon as a healer in a PUG group because people think they can stand still or not contribute or even move.. You know that red circle under your feet? Dont stand in it..
World bosses are hard to balance because you never know how many people that will turn up, but they dont gove much xp or loot for the same reason.
Well, it is true that I am speaking through bitter disapointment when I say that they do not care, thus there is some exageration. On the other hand I simply believe that to be true. It could be Zenimax the publisher being cheap and not giving enough people to Zenimax the studio. So the devs could be trying to do well by the customers, but are incapable because of the limitations from up top. The thing is, I do not care. A harsh thing to say, but what goes on within a company is not my problem. I simply expect a product that meets expectations.
I would be more inclined to believe in the good intentions of Zenimax if the bugs have not been around since a few betas ago. There are of course new ones popping up, that is the nature of things, but at least two dupe bugs were known and wildly reported during the betas.
All that being said I still hope that ESO becomes a game worthy of the Elder Scrolls title, but for now I write it off as yet another disapointing mmo. Think I have to stop and just go back to shooters.
Like I said I don't think you made a bad decision, and you're right you have every right to believe what you want when you're spending your money/time on a product. I didn't mean to imply otherwise I hope I didn't..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This makes me laugh.
As if some bugged quests and some duping are reasons enough to quit? If you really like the game you play anyway...no?
Poeople really have a short memory when it comes to releases.
Yes it has gold sellers, dupers, spammers and some quests thats not working at realese. The question you need to ask yourself is still if you enjoy the game?
If you think ranting on MMORPG.com about how unfair things are and ragequitting will help these things get fixed faster you are WRONG.
You say "some duping" but when those "some duping" turn into wrecked economy? Cause, since this is an mmo, the economy matters. As in, it is an integral part of the game. I can deal with buggy quests. It's harder with a mess of an economy and the looming prospect of rollbacks. Frankly I have not experianced a rollback in years. That was a thing 10 years ago, but in recent times I think only Neverwinter resorted to it.
What does the community really know besides somebody has been duping?
If they ban the accounts with obscene ammounts of money and rare items it will be minimal fallout on the economy IMO.
Rare items will turn into bad items as gear progression goes on, so i cant see an issue there?
Will some get away and profit on this? Yes im sure they will...but its still just pixels and it wont help them much in the long run. So why let it bother you? I cant see myself dying more in PvP because of this...... PvE?...does it matter?
All i see is a company struggling at realease because their beta crowd has held back info on dupes until release. Gamebreaking?...i dont think so, its more annoying that i cant play today because they have taken the servers down to fix it.
When it comes to rollbacks its annoying as hell, but if you ragequit because of that ill just laugh. Sorry
"their beta crowd has held back info on dupes until release" Really now...So it is the fault of the players that these dupes exist? It's the fault of the customer that the product does not work as intended? Even though the dupe bugs were reported. Often. Everywhere. Prior to release.
What is your point exactly? Do you want all of us to stop playing to teach them a lesson?
Yes they released the game without it beeing completly finished. Wich developer hasnt done that to start earning money? Every day the game is in production they loose money. Its simple math IMO. I wish things were differently, but they arent.
I do enjoy the game besides the flaws, so ill keep playing.
You however are free to ragequit if you want, but it wont help you or the developer...
Every software product comes with bugs... and its up to the testing crowd to chase these bugs, as its almost impossible for developers to find their own bugs a lot of the time... because people are mostly blind to their own flaws..
Basically the difference between MMO bug hunting and general game bughunting is the fact that in MMO´s finding bugs in beta and not reporting them can be very very benificial when the game releases.
This is a problem for all developers... find truely trustworthy testers...
Personally i dont see a sollution for this development problem any time soon...... Almost all future games will face the same problem, and the more popular the game is, the more valluable a benificial bug will be, when selling to goldfarmers and such ...
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The only thing i can see that would work for detecting these unfair players, is an open ranking of wealthiest players in game.... not only counting gold, but also vallue of items and bankstuff and gear...
With a system like this that logs everything, it will be quite easy to find out cheeters and goldsellers... and kill them off...
Because in the end, its allways the players that are cheeting, and sadly they will allways out trick the developers..
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I am starting to see this kind of "i don't care it has exploits / cheats in the game, so what, i will keep playing" posts.
Interesting approach. There is one other game out there with a player base exactly like this too, it is called.. Knight Online.
Please don't do this. This kind of approach is.. childish. Basically you are closing your eyes and pretend there is nothing wrong. Why? This won't make your favourite game better. It will make it worse. So keep subbing, keep posting positive comments about the game, but please, please do not act like exploits are not a problem. It serves nothing.
You can criticize this exploit and still play the game, love the game, support the developer, it is completely normal. But don't be a blind defender, you are ruining your own game.
Stages of a new mmo: 1) It's just beta. It still has plenty of time before release. 2) It just launched. Give it time. WoW wasn't built in a day. 3) We don't need you anyway. 4) F2P announced. 5)Huge influx of players. 6) Look how much has changed. 7) Cash shop is the only thing developed lately. 8) It has been a long journey and we thank everyone who was part of it. Shutting down in 3 months. (Courtesy of Robokapp.)
Nope.
Not all of us are weak willed hopeless addicts. I understand bugs and all but all these dupes and exploits left a bad taste in my mouth. So i cancelled my sub and it was quite a relief.
By the way if more players grow a back bone and cancel their subs then yes there is a chance that Zenimax would consider permanent bans instead of just slapping a warning on wrist of exploiters. Reading players bragging about getting away with exploits in guild chat made me sick to my stomach and i refuse to support such a company who can not even act firmly with such people.
How about the " i care, but i keep playing because its still fun" attitude, it think thats what these players really mean to say...
Everyone cares, but most people will not let it ruin the fun..
As said many many times before, this PC release currently is only the extended beta before the more important console release....
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I cancelled my sub due to the poor pvp balance, clunky combat that gets stuck animations all the time and the unresponsiveness of it. Despite all the bugs, which I found a LOT, gameplay-wise the game was too frustrating to play.
Taking these all these bugs into consideration, adding to the weak ESO vision Zenimax launched with, its really hard to find a way to feel your money's worth.
Unfortunately without people's support the game will be forced to act in order to remain profitable, this could mean 2 things:
_ They change the business model and the game suffers for it, just like SWTOR did. They ll spend months if not an entire year adapting the game to the new business model and everything else the game needs at the moment gets pushed back for who knows how long.
_They actually take all the heat, confident on their upcoming work for the game, stick to their vision and fix the game hoping players will resub.
I'll probably resub and give them a chance to make things right. Even with all the clunkiness and bugs, its hard not to see the potential the game has. It's beautiful, full of story that gives immersion ( too much story though a MMO can't focus on this ) , and it runs smoothly great even with a sh%#load of players on screen.
If people cut their support now, the game will most likely just go downhill from here onwards.
The worst thing is, there is nothing Zenimax can do at this point. Not with the current megaservers anyway, they are FUBAR. The duping is alive and well, beside the well known hierling dupes there are even more ways to duplicate items in this game. I guess until another YT video Zenimax will do nothing.
But at this point - it does not matter anyway.
Banning does not even touch the problem - they will not ban all people who bought the duped materials from guildstores, used them to powerlevel their crafting and made their own legenderies, there is too many of them. Some of them did not even know about the duping, they just felt lucky finding a stack of some legendary runes for modes 10k gold etc. Even if they can track them somehow, what reason will you give them all to ban them: you bought something from a guildstore too cheaply? The accounts that were duping were just patsies, made solely for that purpose. You think ppl are so stupid to do this on their main accounts? LoL, the guys that were doing this in my guild were even using VPN and separated Paypal account for the duping account so the logs could not trace and connect it's IP adress with their mains that actually profited form all the duping.
Right now the F2P is out of the question - realize folks that the entry fee and subscription model is the only thing that keeps more botters, exploiters, goldsellers etc. to some point at bay. Make it F2P and they will just flood the game. There already are more botts than players in public dungeons .
a/ VPN used to hide IP but connects to second paypal account which identifies user (ie 2nd bank acc) duh...
b/ VPN used to hide IP and connects to paypal account using false details, definitely illegal.
Probably not the best guild to be part of.
None of the above. They just used a legal verifeid paypal account of some friends that do not even play mmos. You can use your mom's or uncle's account to pay for the game anyway. The person who owns the account does not have to be the same one that pays for the subscription.
And I like being in this guild - have more insight to what is really going on than Zenimax.
Dupes have an impact. And Zenimax seem to be struggling to contain the issue. Should they adopt a different approach and focus on other things?
The impact??
Duping is bad but it's not the major concern for me, as long as the economy is not permanent destroyed. I've been on vacation for a week so I don't know what's going on ingame, but if non dupeable items like rare motifs are now worth millions for example that might be a concern, or not depending if I'm selling or buying.
I'm more concerned with bugged quests, broken dungeons, players who ninja chests in dungeons, as that affect my gameplay more dirrectly.
There are a lot of methods for duping in this game, but the ones you know are the ones people let you know... but there are at least 2 more that I have never seen anyone mention.
Needless to say these dupes will go to the grave with the people who found them.
Oh and not to mention the teleport hack for farming under the nodes...
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Yep...that's what he is suggesting as far as I can tell