A problem involving hundreds of players out of hundreds of thousands or millions will dominate online conversations, given what a small percentage of the player base actually posts. They banned accounts that duped, and it didn't impact a large fraction of accounts (on the boards they stated that the number of people banned in error was in the few hundred range; the thread for bank problems involved a few hundred people who posted their ticket numbers, etc.) There is just no evidence that this is having the sort of impact that is being claimed - and the lack of a global AH is actually a blessing in this case, as it makes it harder for stolen things to get spread in the general population. We've already seen aggressive action by them a couple of times and I expect to see more. It will become a problem if it's untreated - people have already documented similar or worse problems in numerous other MMO games and launches, and those games survived (e.g. WoW, GW2.)
So, yes, there are problems - no, there won't be a rollback or relaunch. Keep the dream alive, however, if the fantasy makes you happy!
I have to be very careful here as an entire thread was deleted after I posted this yesterday.
Bullshit. They banned accounts that connected to DUPED ITEMS after a small window prior to their "date of discovery"
The people who began duping on day 1 ad already changed methods once THAT dupe began to go 'mainstream' and thus they escaped the ban. The dupe that hit yesterday online (or sometime this weekend) with the mail is already not being used and a NEW dupe that isnt online is the method.
The bans effected more innocent people than dupers. know 2 caught in the ban who I elieve innocent (they claim they were and I totally believe them but you never 100% know...) and the person I know for a fact to be duping accounts and accounts full was never banned.
And you base this fantasy of more innocent that guilty parties on detailed inner knowledge of the numbers? As opposed to, say, projecting a small personal sample to the whole game on a discussion thread? Because they didn't provide *any* of the details that you assert so confidently, so I think that you're just doing the latter. They did, however, provide the numbers I gave you. Note also that "not banned yet" is not the same as "never banned."
There will not be a rollback because it would cripple and destroy the game. This is not a case where the entire player base got bad items flooded through a global auction house. The design that people rail against (no global auction house) has the very valuable side effect of minimizing the impact of this sort of thing - surely this, at least, is something that the detractors can acknowledge?
A problem involving hundreds of players out of hundreds of thousands or millions will dominate online conversations, given what a small percentage of the player base actually posts. They banned accounts that duped, and it didn't impact a large fraction of accounts (on the boards they stated that the number of people banned in error was in the few hundred range; the thread for bank problems involved a few hundred people who posted their ticket numbers, etc.) There is just no evidence that this is having the sort of impact that is being claimed - and the lack of a global AH is actually a blessing in this case, as it makes it harder for stolen things to get spread in the general population. We've already seen aggressive action by them a couple of times and I expect to see more. It will become a problem if it's untreated - people have already documented similar or worse problems in numerous other MMO games and launches, and those games survived (e.g. WoW, GW2.)
So, yes, there are problems - no, there won't be a rollback or relaunch. Keep the dream alive, however, if the fantasy makes you happy!
I have to be very careful here as an entire thread was deleted after I posted this yesterday.
Bullshit. They banned accounts that connected to DUPED ITEMS after a small window prior to their "date of discovery"
The people who began duping on day 1 ad already changed methods once THAT dupe began to go 'mainstream' and thus they escaped the ban. The dupe that hit yesterday online (or sometime this weekend) with the mail is already not being used and a NEW dupe that isnt online is the method.
The bans effected more innocent people than dupers. know 2 caught in the ban who I elieve innocent (they claim they were and I totally believe them but you never 100% know...) and the person I know for a fact to be duping accounts and accounts full was never banned.
And you base this fantasy of more innocent that guilty parties on detailed inner knowledge of the numbers? As opposed to, say, projecting a small personal sample to the whole game on a discussion thread? Because they didn't provide *any* of the details that you assert so confidently, so I think that you're just doing the latter. They did, however, provide the numbers I gave you. Note also that "not banned yet" is not the same as "never banned."
There will not be a rollback because it would cripple and destroy the game. This is not a case where the entire player base got bad items flooded through a global auction house. The design that people rail against (no global auction house) has the very valuable side effect of minimizing the impact of this sort of thing - surely this, at least, is something that the detractors can acknowledge?
If they had banned more guilty than innocent I would imagine most (if not all) of the bans would have been lifted- Eh?
But yes. I am basing this unscientificly on the fact that the 2 RL people I know who claim not to have duped were banned. Did they dupe? Only they know- However, they probably would have admitted it since this was during a discussion with RL friend #3 who does dupe while laughing and joking about it- Since none of us there would snitch or really cares (other than to find it pretty funny) I would tend to believe them. Couple that with numerous posts online from people claiming innocent (again- I dont know...I am not them) AND the fact that there was an appology- And yeah. My logical theory would be that more innocents were banned.
I dont need internal statistics to make a conclusion based on logic.
I'm sick of it all to be honest. Got my character to level 28 and am fed up with the frozen loading screen, bugs, gold-spammers and the fact that the game is just a quest fest; you wander around from zone to zone hearing npcs talk and clicking on all the options to move the quest on. It's got really tedious and not how an MMO should be in 2014.
I'm not coming back to this and I'm relieved that I won't be wasting any more time on it. Game is very flawed.
I'm sick of it all to be honest. Got my character to level 28 and am fed up with the frozen loading screen, bugs, gold-spammers and the fact that the game is just a quest fest; you wander around from zone to zone hearing npcs talk and clicking on all the options to move the quest on. It's got really tedious and not how an MMO should be in 2014.
I'm not coming back to this and I'm relieved that I won't be wasting any more time on it. Game is very flawed.
You did this to yourself, it wasn't the game. I have skipped a whole lot quests and leveled by exploring, PvP, dungeons, etc. You don't have to treat it like quest hub game. I wish you luck with your future games though, hope you find the home you are looking for out there
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
If they do a relaunch or whatever I will cancel straight away. A game which wipes my characters does not respect my time. I played for 24 hours total to get to where I am and I don't feel like starting again to redo everything.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Over phone support they ask for it the secret question answer but in the mail no that is dangerous it does open up to phishing how is an average player supposed to distinguish phishing from Zen. Zenimax are really n00bs at this MMORPG thing
2. Game issues (broken/bugged quests including main quest line which prevents progression, cheats/exploits, poor design - vamp/ww spawn griefing etc..)
3. Support issues - banning of innocent players, ignored tickets, understaffed GMs etc.
4. Billing issues - payment processing woes
I don't think ready is a valid statement, even companies with a lot of experience have issues like these, did you play ffxiv? Pretty much everything you stated happened there and still does, they even had players hacking others and stealing their gold in the game via bugs with the broker.
Zenimax made many mistakes, they will probably make the same mistakes with the fallout mmo they are seemingly planning but very few players that like the game will quit due to these issues, as shown on every other mmo ever. The ones that do were going to quit anyway, you either like the game or you don't. The game hasn't sold amazingly well on PC but since it's multi platform that will be the possible saving grace, we will see.
The failures are being blown massively out of proportion honestly, I see nothing on this game that matches the horrible hacks, dupes, bots and all the other issues that have and still plague FFXIV (they haven't even fixed most of the worst issues, they just improved detection to ban anyone doing it faster).
2. Game issues (broken/bugged quests including main quest line which prevents progression, cheats/exploits, poor design - vamp/ww spawn griefing etc..)
3. Support issues - banning of innocent players, ignored tickets, understaffed GMs etc.
4. Billing issues - payment processing woes
I don't think ready is a valid statement, even companies with a lot of experience have issues like these, did you play ffxiv? Pretty much everything you stated happened there and still does, they even had players hacking others and stealing their gold in the game via bugs with the broker.
Zenimax made many mistakes, they will probably make the same mistakes with the fallout mmo they are seemingly planning but very few players that like the game will quit due to these issues, as shown on every other mmo ever. The ones that do were going to quit anyway, you either like the game or you don't. The game hasn't sold amazingly well on PC but since it's multi platform that will be the possible saving grace, we will see.
The failures are being blown massively out of proportion honestly, I see nothing on this game that matches the horrible hacks, dupes, bots and all the other issues that have and still plague FFXIV (they haven't even fixed most of the worst issues, they just improved detection to ban anyone doing it faster).
It's the usual post launch hatred every game endures as this poster said. FFXIV had/has these issues still, RIFT had tons of bugs and problems at launch, even WoW was a nightmare at launch. All the down time and bugs at WoW launch ended up giving me over 30 days of free time because the game was down more than it was up.
It's all being blown out of proportion, the same as every launch has done.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Lol at this. I'm betting none of the above. It will have short term consequences on some guild economies but nothing very significant. The sky is not falling.
Any chance we can learn from this as a whole and stop overhyping every AAA release until we get the big picture? Some of you should be ashamed, many people wasted their money based on some of your obscenely exaggerated hype.
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112 Any chance we can learn from this as a whole and stop overhyping every AAA release until we get the big picture? Some of you should be ashamed, many people wasted their money based on some of your obscenely exaggerated hype.
Most of the hype came from players who played in beta and loved the game, and still do love the game. Whether or not someone believes hype is up to them. An informed consumer will form his own opinion rather than listening to someone they don't even know on a general MMO discussion forum.
For instance I still feel like ESO is the best new game on the market currently. Does everyone agree? Nope. But neither of us are right or wrong.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112 Any chance we can learn from this as a whole and stop overhyping every AAA release until we get the big picture? Some of you should be ashamed, many people wasted their money based on some of your obscenely exaggerated hype.
As long as you're complaining about "overhyping" new releases maybe you should add in the "overhyping" of every problem a new release has by making it sound like it is game breaking and a flaw the game will never recover from. These boards are nothing but thread after thread of "overhyping". Oh no! This game doesn't have x! It's going to fail! Oh no! This game doesn't have exactly everything I want in a game! It's done for!
If this were the latest F2P pile to hit the market (aka NW or something similar) these kind of problems would be more expected, and to a certain extent tolerated (and there was a HUGE amount of duping in NW for the first month).
But this is not that.
This was a game sold at a premium box price, with sub.
As long as you're complaining about "overhyping" new releases maybe you should add in the "overhyping" of every problem a new release has by making it sound like it is game breaking and a flaw the game will never recover from. These boards are nothing but thread after thread of "overhyping". Oh no! This game doesn't have x! It's going to fail! Oh no! This game doesn't have exactly everything I want in a game! It's done for!
The difference is saying "game doesn't have x" is honest if it really doesn't have x. A common and truthful criticism is that TESO strays very far from every other ES games that players know and love(class system, game on rails, built to be 3rd person, etc). On the other hand the hype around this game is completely ridiculas in comparison.
Things like "just like DAOC RvR but better" or "gives the Everquest classic feel" , "takes everything good from Skyrim and leaves out the bad" which are all absurd. That would be like saying WoW has the most amazing graphics ever. If you're excited about a game that's one thing but being obscenely dishonest in an attempt to get people to potentially waste their money is a scumbag move at best.
The game has a lot of issues and design flaws that's for sure but it's still a good game. Just a complete mess at the moment.
It has some of the most epic pvp fights I've ever seen, too bad its clunky and unresponsive combat plus combat bugs get in the way often.
Not to mention some of the pvp abilities are comical at best. Anyone seen Vampire Sorcerers spamming Bolt Escape and the Mist ability from vampire tree? They can troll entire legions of players without being killed lol. I laugh when I see it but at the same time I m disappointed to see such flaws.
Same goes for the lack of cooldowns people explore cancel animation tricks in order to spam their abilities and kill others in 2 seconds. Not a big deal since most of the people just die in 3-4 seconds anyway, but still.
I don't even talk about features, the game is lacking features badly as a MMO, no MMO should be all about questing that's ridiculous. Its a means to an end, not endgame itself! But if only they fixed what's broken, this would be a solid game with a lot of potential.
Right now we are BETA testing for the console release which will bring even more problems to Zenimax once it launches. I don't see this game being a buggy free and flawed experience any time soon. I ll be there when it is though
Originally posted by fantasyfreak112 Any chance we can learn from this as a whole and stop overhyping every AAA release until we get the big picture? Some of you should be ashamed, many people wasted their money based on some of your obscenely exaggerated hype.
As long as you're complaining about "overhyping" new releases maybe you should add in the "overhyping" of every problem a new release has by making it sound like it is game breaking and a flaw the game will never recover from. These boards are nothing but thread after thread of "overhyping". Oh no! This game doesn't have x! It's going to fail! Oh no! This game doesn't have exactly everything I want in a game! It's done for!
There are a lot of people who are heavily investing in ESO failing, and this absolutely colors the discussion in forums like this one.
If this were the latest F2P pile to hit the market (aka NW or something similar) these kind of problems would be more expected, and to a certain extent tolerated (and there was a HUGE about of duping in NW for the first month).
But this is not that.
This was a game sold at a premium box price, with sub.
game has been out a little over 2 weeks and you expect it to be perfect..i can recall MANY launches that had WORSE issues...hell WoWs launch wasa train wreck..most people could not even long on. Everquest 2..lets not even go there. my point is every game is CRAP at launch, sure ZO has no mmo experience and it is showing but they are attempting to fix it. the ones who are really ruining the launch are the haters/exploiters and over all people who should have their computers riped from the wall and taken away. But it wont happen due to this being the internet. I read a lot of reviews and have played mmos for years, i see a lot of potential in this game but its only been out for less then 3 weeks..really people just wait at least two months before cutting it down.
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I think a lot depends on the amount you play. For the average more casual player I'm having a great experience. Even when I was off four days at headstart and played like 40 hours total in those days I had very few moments of grief. It's sad to say I am used to hiccups in MMOs but I am. I think it amounts to the scale of design and no MMO will likely ever release flawless. Heck many single player games launch with really bad bugs these days. Games are getting more and more complex expect them to have more problems.
The game only gets a 3 star rating from users at amazon. Should have stuck with the single player games. Everyone seems to say the same thing.Its a very generic game with a famous ip. And it gets boring pretty quick unless your into pvp but that won't hold the game up at all. I feel sorry for players that blew pre order money on this furture f2p game. Never buy a new mmo out the gate. Wait a few months and don't by into the hype.
So it's becoming more and more apparent that the developers were out of their depth on this one, like a bunch of kids saying "hey, lets make an MMO!" and implementing ideas with no real synergy and no real foresight into their implications in a fully operational game.
The question is, as the bugs, functional flaws, and design miscalculations pile up do you think we'll see a roll-back, a relaunch or, worse yet, the dreaded white flag of the NGE with such things as an AH, single guild system, instanced dungeons, etc.
Thoughts and speculations on where you think this this runaway train is headed are appreciated.
Serious OP are you serious if you think ESO is bug you should try beta of WildStar which bug like hell and you get out memory message and WildStar32.6637.FatalError and you info message text stuck on screen you have reload UI and lag when you are in combat so when lag is over you are other dead or you have pull more mobs and movie in the game is broken and so is music and sound and if unlucky the npc get stuck in ground so have relog the whole game.
And best part in 2 month WildStar is go live and that still those problem ESO did not have those problem in there Beta and the dont have those problem now when there are live sure the do have bug but hey who mmo dont have few bug in start and if you dont ESO new feature like there guild system and AH and instanced dungeons maybe ESO is not game for you.
Serious i dont get why you whine like you do if dont like dont play it is that simple no one is force you play a game you dont like it up you if want to play or not.
I beta tested Rift & SWTOR and played them both for awhile after, never came across any bugs. DDO EU had plenty of bugs in beta, some of which were still in the release version despite them being told by almost everyone ingame and on their forum.
I've never beta'd or played any of the FF mmo's bar one that i had on console for a month but that was ages ago.
ESO has been the buggiest beta and release i've played (well, we stress tested apparently which it seems was a mistake, they should have had us as the beta testers lol) but it's still one of the more enjoyable mmo's of late
Comments
And you base this fantasy of more innocent that guilty parties on detailed inner knowledge of the numbers? As opposed to, say, projecting a small personal sample to the whole game on a discussion thread? Because they didn't provide *any* of the details that you assert so confidently, so I think that you're just doing the latter. They did, however, provide the numbers I gave you. Note also that "not banned yet" is not the same as "never banned."
There will not be a rollback because it would cripple and destroy the game. This is not a case where the entire player base got bad items flooded through a global auction house. The design that people rail against (no global auction house) has the very valuable side effect of minimizing the impact of this sort of thing - surely this, at least, is something that the detractors can acknowledge?
If they had banned more guilty than innocent I would imagine most (if not all) of the bans would have been lifted- Eh?
But yes. I am basing this unscientificly on the fact that the 2 RL people I know who claim not to have duped were banned. Did they dupe? Only they know- However, they probably would have admitted it since this was during a discussion with RL friend #3 who does dupe while laughing and joking about it- Since none of us there would snitch or really cares (other than to find it pretty funny) I would tend to believe them. Couple that with numerous posts online from people claiming innocent (again- I dont know...I am not them) AND the fact that there was an appology- And yeah. My logical theory would be that more innocents were banned.
I dont need internal statistics to make a conclusion based on logic.
I'm sick of it all to be honest. Got my character to level 28 and am fed up with the frozen loading screen, bugs, gold-spammers and the fact that the game is just a quest fest; you wander around from zone to zone hearing npcs talk and clicking on all the options to move the quest on. It's got really tedious and not how an MMO should be in 2014.
I'm not coming back to this and I'm relieved that I won't be wasting any more time on it. Game is very flawed.
You did this to yourself, it wasn't the game. I have skipped a whole lot quests and leveled by exploring, PvP, dungeons, etc. You don't have to treat it like quest hub game. I wish you luck with your future games though, hope you find the home you are looking for out there
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
They really are a bunch of amateurs! Unbelievable!!
They never heard of phishing?? Holy crap! /HUGE FACEPALM!
Criminals will have a feast day on this one!
Next to all the duping going on. Next dissaster on their hands will be tons of people getting their accounts hacked!!
I am speechless. I have seen quite a bit of idiocy lately... but Zenimax is definitely reaching New heights of Amateurism! /shrug
I don't think ready is a valid statement, even companies with a lot of experience have issues like these, did you play ffxiv? Pretty much everything you stated happened there and still does, they even had players hacking others and stealing their gold in the game via bugs with the broker.
Zenimax made many mistakes, they will probably make the same mistakes with the fallout mmo they are seemingly planning but very few players that like the game will quit due to these issues, as shown on every other mmo ever. The ones that do were going to quit anyway, you either like the game or you don't. The game hasn't sold amazingly well on PC but since it's multi platform that will be the possible saving grace, we will see.
The failures are being blown massively out of proportion honestly, I see nothing on this game that matches the horrible hacks, dupes, bots and all the other issues that have and still plague FFXIV (they haven't even fixed most of the worst issues, they just improved detection to ban anyone doing it faster).
It's the usual post launch hatred every game endures as this poster said. FFXIV had/has these issues still, RIFT had tons of bugs and problems at launch, even WoW was a nightmare at launch. All the down time and bugs at WoW launch ended up giving me over 30 days of free time because the game was down more than it was up.
It's all being blown out of proportion, the same as every launch has done.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
"Roll back, Relauch, or Worse?"
Lol at this. I'm betting none of the above. It will have short term consequences on some guild economies but nothing very significant. The sky is not falling.
Most of the hype came from players who played in beta and loved the game, and still do love the game. Whether or not someone believes hype is up to them. An informed consumer will form his own opinion rather than listening to someone they don't even know on a general MMO discussion forum.
For instance I still feel like ESO is the best new game on the market currently. Does everyone agree? Nope. But neither of us are right or wrong.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
As long as you're complaining about "overhyping" new releases maybe you should add in the "overhyping" of every problem a new release has by making it sound like it is game breaking and a flaw the game will never recover from. These boards are nothing but thread after thread of "overhyping". Oh no! This game doesn't have x! It's going to fail! Oh no! This game doesn't have exactly everything I want in a game! It's done for!
If this were the latest F2P pile to hit the market (aka NW or something similar) these kind of problems would be more expected, and to a certain extent tolerated (and there was a HUGE amount of duping in NW for the first month).
But this is not that.
This was a game sold at a premium box price, with sub.
People paid for "better" so they expect better.
And they are not getting it.
The difference is saying "game doesn't have x" is honest if it really doesn't have x. A common and truthful criticism is that TESO strays very far from every other ES games that players know and love(class system, game on rails, built to be 3rd person, etc). On the other hand the hype around this game is completely ridiculas in comparison.
Things like "just like DAOC RvR but better" or "gives the Everquest classic feel" , "takes everything good from Skyrim and leaves out the bad" which are all absurd. That would be like saying WoW has the most amazing graphics ever. If you're excited about a game that's one thing but being obscenely dishonest in an attempt to get people to potentially waste their money is a scumbag move at best.
The game has a lot of issues and design flaws that's for sure but it's still a good game. Just a complete mess at the moment.
It has some of the most epic pvp fights I've ever seen, too bad its clunky and unresponsive combat plus combat bugs get in the way often.
Not to mention some of the pvp abilities are comical at best. Anyone seen Vampire Sorcerers spamming Bolt Escape and the Mist ability from vampire tree? They can troll entire legions of players without being killed lol. I laugh when I see it but at the same time I m disappointed to see such flaws.
Same goes for the lack of cooldowns people explore cancel animation tricks in order to spam their abilities and kill others in 2 seconds. Not a big deal since most of the people just die in 3-4 seconds anyway, but still.
I don't even talk about features, the game is lacking features badly as a MMO, no MMO should be all about questing that's ridiculous. Its a means to an end, not endgame itself! But if only they fixed what's broken, this would be a solid game with a lot of potential.
Right now we are BETA testing for the console release which will bring even more problems to Zenimax once it launches. I don't see this game being a buggy free and flawed experience any time soon. I ll be there when it is though
There are a lot of people who are heavily investing in ESO failing, and this absolutely colors the discussion in forums like this one.
True
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Serious OP are you serious if you think ESO is bug you should try beta of WildStar which bug like hell and you get out memory message and WildStar32.6637.FatalError and you info message text stuck on screen you have reload UI and lag when you are in combat so when lag is over you are other dead or you have pull more mobs and movie in the game is broken and so is music and sound and if unlucky the npc get stuck in ground so have relog the whole game.
And best part in 2 month WildStar is go live and that still those problem ESO did not have those problem in there Beta and the dont have those problem now when there are live sure the do have bug but hey who mmo dont have few bug in start and if you dont ESO new feature like there guild system and AH and instanced dungeons maybe ESO is not game for you.
Serious i dont get why you whine like you do if dont like dont play it is that simple no one is force you play a game you dont like it up you if want to play or not.
I beta tested Rift & SWTOR and played them both for awhile after, never came across any bugs. DDO EU had plenty of bugs in beta, some of which were still in the release version despite them being told by almost everyone ingame and on their forum.
I've never beta'd or played any of the FF mmo's bar one that i had on console for a month but that was ages ago.
ESO has been the buggiest beta and release i've played (well, we stress tested apparently which it seems was a mistake, they should have had us as the beta testers lol) but it's still one of the more enjoyable mmo's of late