Originally posted by BeansnBread Meh, I feel kind of bad – for the guy. He sounds – overworked and almost – desperate. The really tough part – is next. People are going to hit 50 en masse – as this month winds down – and anyone that prefers PvE will expect some PvE content. Craglorn will be nice for some – but will it be enough to keep people interested?
They'll have pve content, two whole factions worth. On top of Craglorn.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I know I'll just sound like a fanboy and my post will be read by few, but I feel it has to be stated.
I honestly believe that Zenimax is doing a great job considering the fact that they are in virgin territory (first MMO), in addition to the huge amount of players that dropped on them at once - which incidentally is why there is a HUGE presence of Gold Spam/Bots.. That's a sign of a heavily played game. They have done a great job so far in reducing the spam. Occasionally some of the spammers will find a new loophole in the chat system and I'll get bombarded for a while, but eventually it's gone again.
One thing I wish they would do is allow us to quickly report gold spammers and bots. Still have it take a screenshot in addition to your report, but when there are 10 spammers in the zone all at once it's very time consuming to report each one using their current system. Other games did this well. Written tickets for CS are for other issues.. Bottom line - We should be able to right-click and report the spammers as easily as it is to right-click and ignore them.
All that said, the important thing is that they are openly aware of the issues and are doing what they can to combat them. We'll just have to see how well they do over time. So far I, personally, give them good marks.
I agree , I'm enjoying the game very much despite the problems , sadly there is a mob mentality on the internet that is getting worse with every new game release ... I sometimes think these people wont be happy until they get what ever game they are hating on closed down and the hard working people that make these great games out of work. The game isn't perfect by any means but it deserves better than this , and funny enough Mmorpg.com's coverage of the game seems to the most fair and balanced at the moment.
But still , there will always be that group of people that will whip up hysteria and hatred on just about anything ...
Originally posted by flizzer I'm not playing the game and doubt I will but , come on, lets face it, as gamers we understand most launches are rocky, perhaps this one more than others. Regardless, I am sure they are trying to get a handle on these issues and players need to start panicking and acting as if the world is ending.
You are 100% right but one can still wonder why they didn't wait a month with the launch, kept the beta running and fixed these things instead, they would have earned money on that in the long run.
I can understand why FunCom released AoC far too early, it was that or close down the company but I have a feeling that this company could have afforded it. If nothing else do they get bad reviews which badly affect potential players...
Of course, I say this a lot since it seems that most MMO companies think the same way here.
All kinds of things are linked to launch dates.
Contractual agreements with printers, distributors, retailers, datacenters, ISP's, etc. to name just a few. There comes a "point-of-no-return" where the game simply HAS to launch because too many external things are tied to the launch date.
That's why companies generally wait as long as possible before committing to that date. If moving the date was trivial, there wouldn't be such a huge fuss about announcing the date in the first place...
Originally posted by BeansnBread Meh, I feel kind of bad – for the guy. He sounds – overworked and almost – desperate. The really tough part – is next. People are going to hit 50 en masse – as this month winds down – and anyone that prefers PvE will expect some PvE content. Craglorn will be nice for some – but will it be enough to keep people interested?
They'll have pve content, two whole factions worth. On top of Craglorn.
Its a good thing they have all that content, only problem is how it works when you team. Quests are so phased its hard to find people to team with. Wife and I played together and we had the same problem Angry Joe had. We killed a boss and it counted for me (guess because I hit the boss first) and not for my wife. I could no longer see my wife and when the boss respawned I could not see the boss and I could not help her so she died. I could not even heal her. This kinda of thing happened to us a few times and is one of the reasons we passed on this game.
With the other 50+ and 50++ areas being so hard people are gona wana team to get content done and thats going to be its own problem. I hope they fix this, if they do, who knows maybe my wife and I will play ESO.
Originally posted by BeansnBread Meh, I feel kind of bad – for the guy. He sounds – overworked and almost – desperate. The really tough part – is next. People are going to hit 50 en masse – as this month winds down – and anyone that prefers PvE will expect some PvE content. Craglorn will be nice for some – but will it be enough to keep people interested?
They'll have pve content, two whole factions worth. On top of Craglorn.
Its a good thing they have all that content, only problem is how it works when you team. Quests are so phased item hard to find teams with people. Wife and I played together and we had the same problem Angry Joe had. We killed a boss and it counted for me (guess because I hit the boss first) and not for my wife. I could no longer see my wife and when the boss respawned I could not help her so she died. I could not even heal her. This kinda of thing happened to us a few times and is one of the reasons we passed on this game.
With the other 50+ and 50++ areas being so hard people are gona wana team to get content done and thats going to be its own problem. I hope they fix this, if they do, who knows maybe my wife and I will play ESO.
Good thing the solo instances that you're describing and tried to group for, are a tiny portion of the PVE content. They are few and far between and usually a part of the mage's or fighter's guild or main story quest lines.
Most of those solo instances are you + one NPC and are pretty obvious that they are meant as solo content. Other than that, everything else is group friendly: public dungeons, non-instanced dungeons, overworld elite boss camps, dark anchors or even the vast majority of quests.
Many of those are even done with impromptu groups of whoever happens to be around. And everyone who participates gets credit for the boss kill or whatever it is.
Not trying to change your mind or anything but you don't have your facts about phasing straight. 95% of the time I'm playing right next to other players, grouped or not. The other 5%? It's supposed to be slightly more challenging solo content.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
In summary, Matt Firor is saying that they're working hard to fix all these bugs and design shortcomings...
Okay, so what? We paid for a quality product; are we supposed to be impressed that ZOS is fixing stuff that shouldn't have been broken to begin with?
WHY WEREN'T ALL THESE BUGS AND DESIGN OVERSIGHTS CAUGHT BEFORE RELEASE?
That's a simple question and ZOS has been avoiding it.
Irrespective of the good points of the game, there is no excuse for the state of the game at release. The fanboi mantra that "All games have bugs" is unacceptable; any of us who developed software commercially know that. Unfortunately, a whole lot of people have been indoctrinated with the "sheep" mentality.
The game was inadequately tested and, in many cases, the problems and bugs were identified and management decisions were made not to fix them. It was more important to spend money on voice-overs and marketing than fielding a good product.
Should have learned their lesson from the SW-TOR debacle...
regarding the red line above: it is literally impossible to launch a perfect program, that is why every program has patches. When a program is being written it is impossible to think of every possible scenario, the game was not inadequately tested at all, they did just fine. This is especially difficult when you have millions of people using your program at the exact same time.
I think its a little more then that. The duping bug alone was reported in beta. How can something that big be ignored?
Probably not..... Actually, there was a statement that they were NOT told about the launch duping bug. The REAL problem is that instead of people these days participating in betas in a productive way, they don't report exploits and simply leverage them for themselves upon release. It's just how it's trending now. Beta is less effective than ever!
Could be a lie but many have said they seen it posted on the beta forums. I have beta tested a lot over the past 15 years and I would not be shocked if it was reported as I cant count how many times players have made detailed bug reports on beta forums only to see it passed by for what ever reason. Even big bugs like this duping thing.
Originally posted by BeansnBread Meh, I feel kind of bad – for the guy. He sounds – overworked and almost – desperate. The really tough part – is next. People are going to hit 50 en masse – as this month winds down – and anyone that prefers PvE will expect some PvE content. Craglorn will be nice for some – but will it be enough to keep people interested?
They'll have pve content, two whole factions worth. On top of Craglorn.
Its a good thing they have all that content, only problem is how it works when you team. Quests are so phased item hard to find teams with people. Wife and I played together and we had the same problem Angry Joe had. We killed a boss and it counted for me (guess because I hit the boss first) and not for my wife. I could no longer see my wife and when the boss respawned I could not help her so she died. I could not even heal her. This kinda of thing happened to us a few times and is one of the reasons we passed on this game.
With the other 50+ and 50++ areas being so hard people are gona wana team to get content done and thats going to be its own problem. I hope they fix this, if they do, who knows maybe my wife and I will play ESO.
Good thing the solo instances that you're describing and tried to group for, are a tiny portion of the PVE content. They are few and far between and usually a part of the mage's or fighter's guild or main story quest lines.
Most of those solo instances are you + one NPC and are pretty obvious that they are meant as solo content. Other than that, everything else is group friendly: public dungeons, non-instanced dungeons, overworld elite boss camps, dark anchors or even the vast majority of quests.
Many of those are even done with impromptu groups of whoever happens to be around. And everyone who participates gets credit for the boss kill or whatever it is.
Not trying to change your mind or anything but you don't have your facts about phasing straight. 95% of the time I'm playing right next to other players, grouped or not. The other 5%? It's supposed to be slightly more challenging solo content.
I have had it happen to us in a regular quest in the open world.
EDIT: Find any Married couple that plays together that has played ESO and they can tell you a whole list of why it was a pain to do so. Pick up help from people you can see around you for x,y,z quest is not bad. But if you are teamed side by side for a few hours it becomes clear where this game needs work. Still liked the game and would love to see this fixed as I am a TES fan. But unless I can play with my wife, Im not interested.
1. You can't possibly work in an engineering environment and make this statement. I write parsing tools for a semiconductor company for auditing RTL (register-transistor-logic) designs. For brand new systems it usually takes me 1-2 weeks to get the system functionally running. It then takes me usually another 6+ months to support it and bug fix as appropriate...until its at a state of "completion". The smallest bugs take the longest to fix.
This is a terrible comparison, they have known about the duping bugs for months but didn't act on them until they became widespread. The "fix" was disabling the problem code. This is not a month long task and it didn't take them a month, it took them an hour, this is a "don't launch code you know is broken". If you did that in a development environment you'd be fired because you are inept.
They. Did. Not. Give. A. Shit.
Then they lied about it.
2. Everything in the engineering world functions on deadlines. Here's the grave mistake you made in your argument. As someone who writes code or designs systems, you don't get to make the decision of what you work on. Your manager makes that decision. Are you saying that you're a manager at ZOS that knows what the gannt charts for the whole development cycle look like?
I don't develop for game studios. We develop code that HAS TO WORK or it does not get deployed. You cannot run a multimillion dollar test on "it might work", and you don't do it when someone has already identified a massive flaw in the code for you.
3. You have utterly no clue if you think "downtime" means "bad server architecture". Here are the signs of good server architecture: minimal packet loss/stable latency (no ping spikes), stable performance under heavy load, and no crashing. Let's see...nobody has complained about packet loss or lag spikes as far as I've heard or read. The latency to the game is extremely stable for all players, including those overseas. I get 60 FPS and no lag what-so-ever in Cyrodiil with 500+ people on my screen. And the servers have yet to crash since early access.
Their servers literally crap themselves underload or after operating for long enough. Either their servers are bad or their code is plagued with memory leaks that cripple their systems after enough time. Pick your poison.
Their servers are so great that they regularly don't even acknowledge actions and lead to irresponsive, buggy combat.
In summary, Matt Firor is saying that they're working hard to fix all these bugs and design shortcomings...
Okay, so what? We paid for a quality product; are we supposed to be impressed that ZOS is fixing stuff that shouldn't have been broken to begin with?
WHY WEREN'T ALL THESE BUGS AND DESIGN OVERSIGHTS CAUGHT BEFORE RELEASE?
That's a simple question and ZOS has been avoiding it.
Irrespective of the good points of the game, there is no excuse for the state of the game at release. The fanboi mantra that "All games have bugs" is unacceptable; any of us who developed software commercially know that. Unfortunately, a whole lot of people have been indoctrinated with the "sheep" mentality.
The game was inadequately tested and, in many cases, the problems and bugs were identified and management decisions were made not to fix them. It was more important to spend money on voice-overs and marketing than fielding a good product.
Should have learned their lesson from the SW-TOR debacle...
regarding the red line above: it is literally impossible to launch a perfect program, that is why every program has patches. When a program is being written it is impossible to think of every possible scenario, the game was not inadequately tested at all, they did just fine. This is especially difficult when you have millions of people using your program at the exact same time.
I think its a little more then that. The duping bug alone was reported in beta. How can something that big be ignored?
Probably not..... Actually, there was a statement that they were NOT told about the launch duping bug. The REAL problem is that instead of people these days participating in betas in a productive way, they don't report exploits and simply leverage them for themselves upon release. It's just how it's trending now. Beta is less effective than ever!
Could be a lie but many have said they seen it posted on the beta forums. I have beta tested a lot over the past 15 years and I would not be shocked if it was reported as I cant count how many times players have made detailed bug reports on beta forums only to see it passed by for what ever reason. Even big bugs like this duping thing.
You guys do know that there are sites with forums, not even very hidden, with people dedicated to finding and sometimes selling exploits to others right? A quick google with the right keywords will get you to them. As a matter of fact in one of those sites recently there was an edit to the original bank dupe exploit thread congratulating Zmax for how quickly they responded lol.
As we speak, they are selling bot programs, speed hacks,. If you really have no idea how widespread this is, just send me a PM and I'll be happy to send you a link to one of the biggest... once you're there take a look at the list of MMOs they are actively hacking.
Some of you guys talk as if hacking was a new thing and developers are idiots for not stamping them out 100%. You have heard of anonymous and at least have some awareness of where they have hacked don't you?
It's idiotic to expect 100% exploit proofing from any fortune 500 company much less an MMO.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
1. You can't possibly work in an engineering environment and make this statement. I write parsing tools for a semiconductor company for auditing RTL (register-transistor-logic) designs. For brand new systems it usually takes me 1-2 weeks to get the system functionally running. It then takes me usually another 6+ months to support it and bug fix as appropriate...until its at a state of "completion". The smallest bugs take the longest to fix.
This is a terrible comparison, they have known about the duping bugs for months but didn't act on them until they became widespread. The "fix" was disabling the problem code. This is not a month long task and it didn't take them a month, it took them an hour, this is a "don't launch code you know is broken". If you did that in a development environment you'd be fired because you are inept.
They. Did. Not. Give. A. Shit.
Then they lied about it.
2. Everything in the engineering world functions on deadlines. Here's the grave mistake you made in your argument. As someone who writes code or designs systems, you don't get to make the decision of what you work on. Your manager makes that decision. Are you saying that you're a manager at ZOS that knows what the gannt charts for the whole development cycle look like?
I don't develop for game studios. We develop code that HAS TO WORK or it does not get deployed. You cannot run a multimillion dollar test on "it might work", and you don't do it when someone has already identified a massive flaw in the code for you.
3. You have utterly no clue if you think "downtime" means "bad server architecture". Here are the signs of good server architecture: minimal packet loss/stable latency (no ping spikes), stable performance under heavy load, and no crashing. Let's see...nobody has complained about packet loss or lag spikes as far as I've heard or read. The latency to the game is extremely stable for all players, including those overseas. I get 60 FPS and no lag what-so-ever in Cyrodiil with 500+ people on my screen. And the servers have yet to crash since early access.
Their servers literally crap themselves underload or after operating for long enough. Either their servers are bad or their code is plagued with memory leaks that cripple their systems after enough time. Pick your poison.
Their servers are so great that they regularly don't even acknowledge actions and lead to irresponsive, buggy combat.
Are you an executive with Zenimax?
You sure do seem to have a lot of insider information
In summary, Matt Firor is saying that they're working hard to fix all these bugs and design shortcomings...
Okay, so what? We paid for a quality product; are we supposed to be impressed that ZOS is fixing stuff that shouldn't have been broken to begin with?
WHY WEREN'T ALL THESE BUGS AND DESIGN OVERSIGHTS CAUGHT BEFORE RELEASE?
That's a simple question and ZOS has been avoiding it.
Irrespective of the good points of the game, there is no excuse for the state of the game at release. The fanboi mantra that "All games have bugs" is unacceptable; any of us who developed software commercially know that. Unfortunately, a whole lot of people have been indoctrinated with the "sheep" mentality.
The game was inadequately tested and, in many cases, the problems and bugs were identified and management decisions were made not to fix them. It was more important to spend money on voice-overs and marketing than fielding a good product.
Should have learned their lesson from the SW-TOR debacle...
regarding the red line above: it is literally impossible to launch a perfect program, that is why every program has patches. When a program is being written it is impossible to think of every possible scenario, the game was not inadequately tested at all, they did just fine. This is especially difficult when you have millions of people using your program at the exact same time.
I think its a little more then that. The duping bug alone was reported in beta. How can something that big be ignored?
Probably not..... Actually, there was a statement that they were NOT told about the launch duping bug. The REAL problem is that instead of people these days participating in betas in a productive way, they don't report exploits and simply leverage them for themselves upon release. It's just how it's trending now. Beta is less effective than ever!
Could be a lie but many have said they seen it posted on the beta forums. I have beta tested a lot over the past 15 years and I would not be shocked if it was reported as I cant count how many times players have made detailed bug reports on beta forums only to see it passed by for what ever reason. Even big bugs like this duping thing.
You guys do know that there are sites with forums, not even very hidden, with people dedicated to finding and sometimes selling exploits to others right? A quick google with the right keywords will get you to them. As a matter of fact in one of those sites recently there was an edit to the original bank dupe exploit thread congratulating Zmax for how quickly they responded lol.
As we speak, they are selling bot programs, speed hacks,. If you really have no idea how widespread this is, just send me a PM and I'll be happy to send you a link to one of the biggest... once you're there take a look at the list of MMOs they are actively hacking.
Some of you guys talk as if hacking was a new thing and developers are idiots for not stamping them out 100%. You have heard of anonymous and at least have some awareness of where they have hacked don't you?
It's idiotic to expect 100% exploit proofing from any fortune 500 company much less an MMO.
Ah yes the mindless drones defending the hive, in the end people like you will cause the most harm to ESO.
Iselin is far from mindless. One of the better posters here on mmorpg.com, even when we disagree.
Originally posted by flizzer I'm not playing the game and doubt I will but , come on, lets face it, as gamers we understand most launches are rocky, perhaps this one more than others. Regardless, I am sure they are trying to get a handle on these issues and players need to start panicking and acting as if the world is ending.
Eventually yes but you also have to understand that patience of people varies a lot. 2 weeks was enough to break a lot of players and hence all the negativity.
Every MMO gets stable in few months but how many have been able to retain a good chunk of players back as a P2P MMO? other than WOW which was 9 years ago.. not one MMO comes to my mind.
And I do believe the lack of patience with the majority of people into this genre is what is setting this genre back.
No it's not good if your games has issue's which might be severe to some and some (incl. me) just experiance some minor little issue's. But not ackknowleging how complex this genre is will create so many complaints we have seen.
Feel that much of the majority takes things for granted and perhaps they have a perfect life where nothing ever goes wrong they expect games to be like that aswell as being totally unaware of any technical details or how complex this genre is to make.
Every MMO gets stable in few months but how many have been able to retain a good chunk of players back as a P2P MMO? other than WOW which was 9 years ago.. not one MMO comes to my mind.
And I do believe the lack of patience with the majority of people into this genre is what is setting this genre back.
In days of old there were fewer alternatives. Today there are many more with the type of feel that the ES saga captured. From big games like of Dark Souls 2, indies like Sui Genesis or the forthcoming xpac for WoW. There are alternatives - to any game, not just TESO.
And issues with a game will be circulated. Again not just for TESO. Everyone knows about BF4 and SimCity - and a host of others. Its a level playing field out there and Zenimax knew what they were doing when, imo, they released the game to early. Which is one of the reasons the reviews have been as poor - the bugs, bots, instability and inability to release a sufficiently polished game to reviewers pre-launch have all taken there toll.
In all of this there is nothing wrong with customers wanting a quality product. Doesn't matter whether you are looking to buy a car or a toaster; hire a plumber or an electrician. You expect quality. Peoples' tolerance varies - and if you buy a cheap and nasty product because that's all a job requires then you will be more forgiving of lower quality. You will still expect a level of quality however.
Again Zenimax knew this. And having opted for a sub rather than B2P + paid DLC peoples' expectations are higher. 27M bought Skyrim and it still has bugs even today - but we tolerate them. TESO is a different beast.
1. You can't possibly work in an engineering environment and make this statement. I write parsing tools for a semiconductor company for auditing RTL (register-transistor-logic) designs. For brand new systems it usually takes me 1-2 weeks to get the system functionally running. It then takes me usually another 6+ months to support it and bug fix as appropriate...until its at a state of "completion". The smallest bugs take the longest to fix.
This is a terrible comparison, they have known about the duping bugs for months but didn't act on them until they became widespread. The "fix" was disabling the problem code. This is not a month long task and it didn't take them a month, it took them an hour, this is a "don't launch code you know is broken". If you did that in a development environment you'd be fired because you are inept.
They. Did. Not. Give. A. Shit.
Then they lied about it.
2. Everything in the engineering world functions on deadlines. Here's the grave mistake you made in your argument. As someone who writes code or designs systems, you don't get to make the decision of what you work on. Your manager makes that decision. Are you saying that you're a manager at ZOS that knows what the gannt charts for the whole development cycle look like?
I don't develop for game studios. We develop code that HAS TO WORK or it does not get deployed. You cannot run a multimillion dollar test on "it might work", and you don't do it when someone has already identified a massive flaw in the code for you.
3. You have utterly no clue if you think "downtime" means "bad server architecture". Here are the signs of good server architecture: minimal packet loss/stable latency (no ping spikes), stable performance under heavy load, and no crashing. Let's see...nobody has complained about packet loss or lag spikes as far as I've heard or read. The latency to the game is extremely stable for all players, including those overseas. I get 60 FPS and no lag what-so-ever in Cyrodiil with 500+ people on my screen. And the servers have yet to crash since early access.
Their servers literally crap themselves underload or after operating for long enough. Either their servers are bad or their code is plagued with memory leaks that cripple their systems after enough time. Pick your poison.
Their servers are so great that they regularly don't even acknowledge actions and lead to irresponsive, buggy combat.
OMG he mentioned memory leaks! This guy must be a professional!
Sounds like you work for the DoD industry since you talk about how the code "has to work" when it gets "deployed". Since you work for DoD I'm going to assume you're incompetent because let's face it, 99% of DoD and all government related facilities are.
Now that that is out of the way I'll address the real issue here. Your argument is based on emotional opinion with no foundation in fact. My argument (that you're clueless) is completely based on fact and years of industry experience.
Just because you took "Computer Programming 101" back in college (and since you're DoD, that must have been 40+ years ago) doesn't mean you have the slightest clue about how to make games, design server architectures, or run an MMO.
Originally posted by Horusra and the hate will keep the game in the news and people will be interested.
Heh, by now I'm just swinging through these threads to see how far we have come.
So far, it's from "the smoothest game launch ever, it's like the Matrix, man, only with sugar coating and free unicorns" to "what did you expect?!?! every game has bugs! and bots! and dupes! and crashes! ESO is no worse!"
Will we hit "well, AO and WAR had it worse, right? right?" before the end of the month?
3. You have utterly no clue if you think "downtime" means "bad server architecture". Here are the signs of good server architecture: minimal packet loss/stable latency (no ping spikes), stable performance under heavy load, and no crashing. Let's see...nobody has complained about packet loss or lag spikes as far as I've heard or read. The latency to the game is extremely stable for all players, including those overseas. I get 60 FPS and no lag what-so-ever in Cyrodiil with 500+ people on my screen. And the servers have yet to crash since early access.
No packet loss, latency, or lag, or server stability issues? So, reports of being unable to weapon swap or mount/dismount or greatly exaggerated? Must be people playing on their sowing machine, i.e. client side issues. They're probably all hackers.
That review complaining about a bugged zone (Green...?), where somehow you would end up with your character getting rolled back to an earlier state, all but preventing progression? Inventory issues? Stuff being dupe'd? Hallmarks of a stable server! All packets present and accounted for! Some even twice!
Or are we just talking everything is stable below the app?
Also, love your insights about all players, here and overseas. Sounds like you do server work for ZOS, right?
Originally posted by FlyByKnight So people don't get quest fixes until next pay cycle?
Huh? They've been focusing very heavily on quest fixes. Virtually everything that I had any problem with, either live or beta, has been fixed up in the notes that I've seen. Virtually everything that I've seen mentioned on the boards too. What do you have in mind?
Originally posted by flizzer I'm not playing the game and doubt I will but , come on, lets face it, as gamers we understand most launches are rocky, perhaps this one more than others. Regardless, I am sure they are trying to get a handle on these issues and players need to start panicking and acting as if the world is ending.
100% agreed with this. I am not playing but seriously bugs and exploits have plagued every major MMO release since 1999. It's par for the course.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Originally posted by flizzer I'm not playing the game and doubt I will but , come on, lets face it, as gamers we understand most launches are rocky, perhaps this one more than others. Regardless, I am sure they are trying to get a handle on these issues and players need to start panicking and acting as if the world is ending.
100% agreed with this. I am not playing but seriously bugs and exploits have plagued every major MMO release since 1999. It's par for the course.
Correct, which is why I guess these kind of things don't bother me. I mean I'm level 26 now and though I've had some phasing issues and bugs, there isn't one quest I haven't been able to complete with a little research on how technically to get around the issue either by logging back in or rebooting the client or trying the next day. I just find ways for just about everything to continue forward because most of the game IS NOT buggy. We tend to focus only on the percent that is. I'll admit, they need to do more which his response shows, but my experience hasn't been hampered one bit. Maybe I'm just lucky? lol
Originally posted by flizzer I'm not playing the game and doubt I will but , come on, lets face it, as gamers we understand most launches are rocky, perhaps this one more than others. Regardless, I am sure they are trying to get a handle on these issues and players need to start panicking and acting as if the world is ending.
100% agreed with this. I am not playing but seriously bugs and exploits have plagued every major MMO release since 1999. It's par for the course.
Correct, which is why I guess these kind of things don't bother me. I mean I'm level 26 now and though I've had some phasing issues and bugs, there isn't one quest I haven't been able to complete with a little research on how technically to get around the issue either by logging back in or rebooting the client or trying the next day. I just find ways for just about everything to continue forward because most of the game IS NOT buggy. We tend to focus only on the percent that is. I'll admit, they need to do more which his response shows, but my experience hasn't been hampered one bit. Maybe I'm just lucky? lol
ebonheart pact's school daze quest has been broken beyond all recognition for days if not weeks.
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They'll have pve content, two whole factions worth. On top of Craglorn.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I agree , I'm enjoying the game very much despite the problems , sadly there is a mob mentality on the internet that is getting worse with every new game release ... I sometimes think these people wont be happy until they get what ever game they are hating on closed down and the hard working people that make these great games out of work. The game isn't perfect by any means but it deserves better than this , and funny enough Mmorpg.com's coverage of the game seems to the most fair and balanced at the moment.
But still , there will always be that group of people that will whip up hysteria and hatred on just about anything ...
All kinds of things are linked to launch dates.
Contractual agreements with printers, distributors, retailers, datacenters, ISP's, etc. to name just a few. There comes a "point-of-no-return" where the game simply HAS to launch because too many external things are tied to the launch date.
That's why companies generally wait as long as possible before committing to that date. If moving the date was trivial, there wouldn't be such a huge fuss about announcing the date in the first place...
Its a good thing they have all that content, only problem is how it works when you team. Quests are so phased its hard to find people to team with. Wife and I played together and we had the same problem Angry Joe had. We killed a boss and it counted for me (guess because I hit the boss first) and not for my wife. I could no longer see my wife and when the boss respawned I could not see the boss and I could not help her so she died. I could not even heal her. This kinda of thing happened to us a few times and is one of the reasons we passed on this game.
With the other 50+ and 50++ areas being so hard people are gona wana team to get content done and thats going to be its own problem. I hope they fix this, if they do, who knows maybe my wife and I will play ESO.
Good thing the solo instances that you're describing and tried to group for, are a tiny portion of the PVE content. They are few and far between and usually a part of the mage's or fighter's guild or main story quest lines.
Most of those solo instances are you + one NPC and are pretty obvious that they are meant as solo content. Other than that, everything else is group friendly: public dungeons, non-instanced dungeons, overworld elite boss camps, dark anchors or even the vast majority of quests.
Many of those are even done with impromptu groups of whoever happens to be around. And everyone who participates gets credit for the boss kill or whatever it is.
Not trying to change your mind or anything but you don't have your facts about phasing straight. 95% of the time I'm playing right next to other players, grouped or not. The other 5%? It's supposed to be slightly more challenging solo content.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Could be a lie but many have said they seen it posted on the beta forums. I have beta tested a lot over the past 15 years and I would not be shocked if it was reported as I cant count how many times players have made detailed bug reports on beta forums only to see it passed by for what ever reason. Even big bugs like this duping thing.
I have had it happen to us in a regular quest in the open world.
EDIT: Find any Married couple that plays together that has played ESO and they can tell you a whole list of why it was a pain to do so. Pick up help from people you can see around you for x,y,z quest is not bad. But if you are teamed side by side for a few hours it becomes clear where this game needs work. Still liked the game and would love to see this fixed as I am a TES fan. But unless I can play with my wife, Im not interested.
This is a terrible comparison, they have known about the duping bugs for months but didn't act on them until they became widespread. The "fix" was disabling the problem code. This is not a month long task and it didn't take them a month, it took them an hour, this is a "don't launch code you know is broken". If you did that in a development environment you'd be fired because you are inept.
They. Did. Not. Give. A. Shit.
Then they lied about it.
I don't develop for game studios. We develop code that HAS TO WORK or it does not get deployed. You cannot run a multimillion dollar test on "it might work", and you don't do it when someone has already identified a massive flaw in the code for you.
Their servers literally crap themselves underload or after operating for long enough. Either their servers are bad or their code is plagued with memory leaks that cripple their systems after enough time. Pick your poison.
Their servers are so great that they regularly don't even acknowledge actions and lead to irresponsive, buggy combat.
You guys do know that there are sites with forums, not even very hidden, with people dedicated to finding and sometimes selling exploits to others right? A quick google with the right keywords will get you to them. As a matter of fact in one of those sites recently there was an edit to the original bank dupe exploit thread congratulating Zmax for how quickly they responded lol.
As we speak, they are selling bot programs, speed hacks,. If you really have no idea how widespread this is, just send me a PM and I'll be happy to send you a link to one of the biggest... once you're there take a look at the list of MMOs they are actively hacking.
Some of you guys talk as if hacking was a new thing and developers are idiots for not stamping them out 100%. You have heard of anonymous and at least have some awareness of where they have hacked don't you?
It's idiotic to expect 100% exploit proofing from any fortune 500 company much less an MMO.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Are you an executive with Zenimax?
You sure do seem to have a lot of insider information
fucking hilarious actually
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Iselin is far from mindless. One of the better posters here on mmorpg.com, even when we disagree.
Sadly true .... wise words indeed sir.
And I do believe the lack of patience with the majority of people into this genre is what is setting this genre back.
No it's not good if your games has issue's which might be severe to some and some (incl. me) just experiance some minor little issue's. But not ackknowleging how complex this genre is will create so many complaints we have seen.
Feel that much of the majority takes things for granted and perhaps they have a perfect life where nothing ever goes wrong they expect games to be like that aswell as being totally unaware of any technical details or how complex this genre is to make.
In days of old there were fewer alternatives. Today there are many more with the type of feel that the ES saga captured. From big games like of Dark Souls 2, indies like Sui Genesis or the forthcoming xpac for WoW. There are alternatives - to any game, not just TESO.
And issues with a game will be circulated. Again not just for TESO. Everyone knows about BF4 and SimCity - and a host of others. Its a level playing field out there and Zenimax knew what they were doing when, imo, they released the game to early. Which is one of the reasons the reviews have been as poor - the bugs, bots, instability and inability to release a sufficiently polished game to reviewers pre-launch have all taken there toll.
In all of this there is nothing wrong with customers wanting a quality product. Doesn't matter whether you are looking to buy a car or a toaster; hire a plumber or an electrician. You expect quality. Peoples' tolerance varies - and if you buy a cheap and nasty product because that's all a job requires then you will be more forgiving of lower quality. You will still expect a level of quality however.
Again Zenimax knew this. And having opted for a sub rather than B2P + paid DLC peoples' expectations are higher. 27M bought Skyrim and it still has bugs even today - but we tolerate them. TESO is a different beast.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
OMG he mentioned memory leaks! This guy must be a professional!
Sounds like you work for the DoD industry since you talk about how the code "has to work" when it gets "deployed". Since you work for DoD I'm going to assume you're incompetent because let's face it, 99% of DoD and all government related facilities are.
Now that that is out of the way I'll address the real issue here. Your argument is based on emotional opinion with no foundation in fact. My argument (that you're clueless) is completely based on fact and years of industry experience.
Just because you took "Computer Programming 101" back in college (and since you're DoD, that must have been 40+ years ago) doesn't mean you have the slightest clue about how to make games, design server architectures, or run an MMO.
So I'll ask again. Please stop.
Heh, by now I'm just swinging through these threads to see how far we have come.
So far, it's from "the smoothest game launch ever, it's like the Matrix, man, only with sugar coating and free unicorns" to "what did you expect?!?! every game has bugs! and bots! and dupes! and crashes! ESO is no worse!"
Will we hit "well, AO and WAR had it worse, right? right?" before the end of the month?
I'm guessing this launch hyping is where a lot of heat is coming from on these forums, not mention disastrous comparisons like http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/410852/Very-solid-gameTrying-to-understand-the-negativity-compared-to-a-game-like-Final-Fantasy.html
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No packet loss, latency, or lag, or server stability issues? So, reports of being unable to weapon swap or mount/dismount or greatly exaggerated? Must be people playing on their sowing machine, i.e. client side issues. They're probably all hackers.
That review complaining about a bugged zone (Green...?), where somehow you would end up with your character getting rolled back to an earlier state, all but preventing progression? Inventory issues? Stuff being dupe'd? Hallmarks of a stable server! All packets present and accounted for! Some even twice!
Or are we just talking everything is stable below the app?
Also, love your insights about all players, here and overseas. Sounds like you do server work for ZOS, right?
Huh? They've been focusing very heavily on quest fixes. Virtually everything that I had any problem with, either live or beta, has been fixed up in the notes that I've seen. Virtually everything that I've seen mentioned on the boards too. What do you have in mind?
100% agreed with this. I am not playing but seriously bugs and exploits have plagued every major MMO release since 1999. It's par for the course.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Lol, two and a half weeks.... I cannot join your cause it's wayyyyy too soon. Ask me in August.
Correct, which is why I guess these kind of things don't bother me. I mean I'm level 26 now and though I've had some phasing issues and bugs, there isn't one quest I haven't been able to complete with a little research on how technically to get around the issue either by logging back in or rebooting the client or trying the next day. I just find ways for just about everything to continue forward because most of the game IS NOT buggy. We tend to focus only on the percent that is. I'll admit, they need to do more which his response shows, but my experience hasn't been hampered one bit. Maybe I'm just lucky? lol
There Is Always Hope!
ebonheart pact's school daze quest has been broken beyond all recognition for days if not weeks.