eqn aint the last great hope and it's not what anyone is going to want, it's gonna be GW2 with a weird class system and semi destructable terrain coupled with free zones and buildings they get off landmark players.
Well I want it and I'm someone, class system sounds great, but it's obvious you aren't a fan and must have inside info on how it will be like GW2.
dynamic AI what a joke, MMO's cant even get static quests working bug free 90% of the time and now you want quests that spawn based off mobs that roam a land based off what events have triggered in a zone to make it so... thats way too many moving parts and variables to put into random equations to think that it's actually going to work well.
So basically since it hasn't been done, it isn't possible? Guess we should give up on all innovation in the world with that logic.
countless builds? with a limited action set of 5 active abilities.... thats not really countless and many other games already do this and better.
Once you add in 40+ classes, with at least 4 mixable skills, on top of skill combos, gear interacting with skills, etc, you are left with a pretty staggering amount of options. Can one class have 100 skills on screen at once? No, but you are also not limited to just 100 skills ever either.
your actions will never make a difference in a scripted world... thats like saying GW2 is a living world because of the story that keeps on keeping on.
This is yet to be seen, but the story/script will just be part of the game, it won't be the game from how they describe it. It is a guide but not a requirement. I do doubt individuals will have much impact on the world as a whole, I think it relates more to individual adventure. Your actions a month ago might have many unforeseen consequences that can't be easily googled or found in a guide. You won't know until they happen.
While groups should have more direct impact, such as build a major city. Even if it is "scripted" it is still a dynamic event that players are doing instead of running a repeatable quest/story over and over on different characters.
and it's def for casuals.. this is the game you can pickup and play when you feel like it and have no real dedication too it, it's not something you have to put time and effort into to reap the benefits, it's a come as you please for as long as you like kinda game...
By the numbers, Casuals > Hardcore aka I have no life and love timesinks. But they've said that it will not be a game that caters to one or the other. In a dynamic world, there is no reason to not cater to everyone in some way. The game will meet you where you are at. Someone that plays 40 hours a week compared to 2 hours will have a totally different experience. Instead of hitting a hard cap and if you don't dedicate every waking hour to the game, might as well uninstall it because you can't play. Or the opposite, game is so watered down that the more time you play equals more time you get to run the same boring/easy crap over and over without any new challenge.
it's gonna fall on it's face, landmark is just a tech demo for the EQN client to make sure it can handle what it needs to do to a degree and the game is a disappointment and as far from everquest as humanly possible, it's sales will be based of nostalgia until people realise it's not the game they were looking for.
One, they removed EQ from the title, but failing to see how it is a disappointment for what it is and has been hyped as. Calling it just a demo is like saying Minecraft is just a demo for some unknown game. Landmark and EQN will co-exist for as long as players want them to. I can't play Minecraft, just as I can't spend hours in Landmark, but there are millions that love MC every single day.
If they hope to make a profit from just nostalgic EQ fans (most of which seem to have only played for the first few years) they are wasting their time. They are making a game for the next 10-15+ years. Not make a few EQ fans happy. They could of made EQ3 and would have just another EQ game that last time I checked, aren't pulling in the masses, nor innovating and moving the genre forward.
No offense, but I'm guessing you are a player that will never be happy with anything. No matter what is given. You expect a game to be made for you and you alone, which is crazy. Seems many gamers have this same mentality. If it isn't perfect in your eyes it will simply fail. I'm glad that I'm not closed minded and enjoy many types of games and don't have to have 100% of what I want to be happy. Would be nice, but isn't reality.
I'm still picky and over the years have stopped throwing my money at every new mmo to come out (thank you F2P), but I don't shoot down games nor the people that like them simply because they aren't for me. I see the value in everything, but long for something I can really get into.
It is very easy to say a game will fail, but I'd rather have some hope and with that be a part of something that may actually have some future. SOE is going about it all differently this time around and it seems to be jarring for many. From F2P, early access, players being involved in development, not following the same old traditional mechanics, etc, some can't accept change or a new take on things. I for one have been playing these games (18+ years) way too long and I'm hopeful for the future, while still not being a total fanboi with blinders on.
No offense, but I'm guessing you are a player that will never be happy with anything. No matter what is given. You expect a game to be made for you and you alone, which is crazy. Seems many gamers have this same mentality. If it isn't perfect in your eyes it will simply fail. I'm glad that I'm not closed minded and enjoy many types of games and don't have to have 100% of what I want to be happy. Would be nice, but isn't reality.
I'm still picky and over the years have stopped throwing my money at every new mmo to come out (thank you F2P), but I don't shoot down games nor the people that like them simply because they aren't for me. I see the value in everything, but long for something I can really get into.
It is very easy to say a game will fail, but I'd rather have some hope and with that be a part of something that may actually have some future. SOE is going about it all differently this time around and it seems to be jarring for many. From F2P, early access, players being involved in development, not following the same old traditional mechanics, etc, some can't accept change or a new take on things. I for one have been playing these games (18+ years) way too long and I'm hopeful for the future, while still not being a total fanboi with blinders on.
not offended but you're also wrong... and you dont listen
limited action set, 4 or 5 active abilities a time.. i never said you cant change them out of combat, but you are limited to however many it is on your bars so it doesnt make for a huge choice when you combine everything together giving you access to 100's of abilities but only being able to use 4 or 5.
and on the whole roaming mob packs thing.. many companies with developer teams whom are a lot more talented have tried to bring intelligent AI or dymanic mob packs to game... and it has never panned out.
and just because they took the everquest out of landmark.. clearly you're misunderstanding what i'm saying... Landmark is a tech demo for the engine they will be using on EQN, thats why there is next to no info besides a tech demo for EQN, why there is no progress no alpha and why the game is so far out... Because Landmark is testing the capabilities of the engine and they're making tweaks here and there so they have a solid engine to start building EQN ontop of and thats the one thing they have going for them the way they are running the project, doing something like this to test the capabilities of their engine before building a game ontop of it and then being like "shit it doesnt do what we need it too" is the best thing they could do.
i am very happy with many things, if it was more polished and fluid i would really like ESO's combat system i still feel it's a little clunky but the idea behind is it great and has been seen before but they have done a good job with it.
i like grouping from eq1 the feeling of teamwork and sense of accomplishment for getting things done... no working map, no minimap, just go out and explore. nothing telling you where to go unless you talk to other adventurers who tell you about things they have come across in their travels.
i like not having a global auction house.
i like not having a cluttered and intrusive UI
i like a real open world featureset like ultima online
i like challenging games.
i like games that i dont complete in a week of gameplay
i like big open world bosses that takes groups of people todo like 40+ i also dont mind structured instanced raiding.
i like OWPvP, but i also like structured arena style.
there is many things i like and many MMO's i like but none of them have really come together in one package and i dont see EQN doing it either, especially if developed by sony, they just dont have what they need and thats the thing... none of these big developers really do because they hire average software engineers for a start on average wages.. they dont go big and hire a truely talented solftware engineer and pay him accordingly and thats why for the game you want, you really wanna start looking towards indie devs.. like i mean hell, the combat system written for DAOC was some nobody junior developer working at the company at the time... and combat in DAOC was amazing, they got lucky... it wasnt a big name, it wasnt someone with years of experience and the fact of the matter is like someone said earlier, the years of experience that sony devs have now... is with everquest 2 style games.
Edit - and just on a side note, i've still thrown my money at every MMO that has come out even when i knew i really shouldnt, because i do have hope and am willing to give everything a shot... atm i'm playing ESO vet 10 sorc, i still find it fun and am waiting for craglorn because the game doesnt have much todo really outside of that, but i have a 3 month sub.. and i genereally always 3 month sub when a new game comes out.. i give it ample time to be good....
not to mention i constantly go back and play older MMO's, i enjoy going back to SWTOR sometimes, Rift, forsaken world, TSW, AoC, TERA, Champions Online, WoW, EQ1 on aftermarket original servers... there are many old mmo's i regularly jump back in and have a mess around for a while... so many games make me happy and i enjoy being able to play them when i choose... EQN just doesnt feel right
And for the highlighted bit.. it's a great marketing ploy and will lead to great free content they dont have to develop but as for EQN itself... it wont change much, the game will still be developed how the developers make it not by the consumer interaction
I'm just hoping it's the last great "fail" before the industry revolutionizes again. Post-wow vanilla is all about trying these failures while maintaining with wow expansions.
In my opinion there is too much damn mmorpgs out there.......its like this if all you taste throughout your life is water, then water would be beautiful for you...however if you taste soda/juice or any other artificial beverage out there you would like those better.
everyone loved EQ and UO but during those times there wasnt much choice was there? you HAD to like it because there is no other. These times are different though...there is sooo much to choose from that you just cant stay with one mmorpg for more than a month or 2 and you end up like a resource bot stuck between 2 ores. And finally...you explode...with nothing to play.
I would agree with this if 90% of them weren't carbon copies of each other. Kinda removes the whole variety thing from the equation. The better statement is that there's far too many WoW clones and not enough that appreciate older successes, innovation and immersion.
While I didn't start with the original Everquest I did know about it's existence while I was playing Asheron's Call the same year both released. While I didn't find anything I would consider "my thing" about original EQ, it did 10 times better in numbers then my beloved AC. It also ushered in the great MMO genre beginings, seeing as it was the first commercial success and relative household name.
I hope this same history will work with its newest MMO. As a huge proponent of Innovation and uniqueness in the Genre It is damn refreshing to see EQN go away from the EQ/WoW model that has stymied this genre for far to damn long.
Here's hoping the EQN Revolution ushers in a new game changing, genre defining MMO. Because sadly if it doesn't I can almost assuredly see me never looking into this genre again. For me this is the last hope and the final nail in the coffin. I have been without an MMO for far too long and I couldn't take another failed MMO.
Get it Right SOE!
So many of us feel this way.
I havent bought subscription MMO since WAR. And very sadly do not consider it to be genre with any valid merit anymore.
And I used to be MMORPG fanatic.
EQN is the last card in the deck.
Its last AAA mmo developed. And last AAA mmo developed that is claiming to change this now dying genre.
Its going to either make it , and lead a way for change in industry.
Or fail and with it the western AAA MMOs as we knew will fade away as did point and click games.
EQN is going to make the same mistake as GW2.... No trinity and "console" action bar.
For me this is already extremely disapointed. I cant stand GW2 for more then 20 min due to its combat mechanics.
But to each his own style of play ! i respect that !!! Archege is the mmo that looks fresh with "old"style tab target and whack a mole healer and a action bar for 40 keybindings !
If EQN had something similar then it would have been perfect. But most of us know that its going to be a zerg mmo, as thats what you get when you dont have decent healing class
I cant believe people are still getting hyped on plain promises...Eqn showed us so few lousy videos, said the game will be super awesome and half the people here are shi****ing their pants like if they werent let down so many time
Once i see a proper gameplay with all the features they promised i might change my mind. But what i see now is a giant bubble hyped up on famous Ip in mmo genre and nothing to back up its claims - not impressed
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
EQN is going to make the same mistake as GW2.... No trinity and "console" action bar.
For me this is already extremely disapointed. I cant stand GW2 for more then 20 min due to its combat mechanics.
But to each his own style of play ! i respect that !!! Archege is the mmo that looks fresh with "old"style tab target and whack a mole healer and a action bar for 40 keybindings !
If EQN had something similar then it would have been perfect. But most of us know that its going to be a zerg mmo, as thats what you get when you dont have decent healing class
I don't think EQN is going to succeed either for similar reasons.
Also,
It's not about what SOE is telling us the game is going to be. I already know it wont. No MMORPG that has been hyped has released and still delivered the "experience" the develper (And pre-release fan base) said it would. Looking back at all the post-WoW theme parks. All the promises made and broken.
While I did enjoy GW2, I still believe that one of the things that hurt that game more than anything else was the Manifesto. Because of that, the expectations of the game were artificially inflated and while GW2 delivered on features referenced by the Manifesto,(barely) the overall experiences promised by it were not. And GW2 is not alone. SWTOR, Rift, AoC, and others, most recently ESO also failed to deliver on that "promise". Just look at all the titles that came with hype. None of them delivered.
But look at FFXIV. The game was not really hyped by SE. After the initial failure, SE kept a low profile. They said what the game will be and made sure that the game was what they said. The game was a sleeper hit and is still doing well. Quite simply, It delivered on what it said it would deliver. (For the most part)
And I can already tell where SoE's priorities are in this game. It's not the player's experience. It's mass appeal and monetization. The same exact priority that caused the issues with all the other MMOs.
This game will be no different. It will not deliver and it will not save the genre.
No offense, but I'm guessing you are a player that will never be happy with anything. No matter what is given. You expect a game to be made for you and you alone, which is crazy. Seems many gamers have this same mentality. If it isn't perfect in your eyes it will simply fail. I'm glad that I'm not closed minded and enjoy many types of games and don't have to have 100% of what I want to be happy. Would be nice, but isn't reality.
I'm still picky and over the years have stopped throwing my money at every new mmo to come out (thank you F2P), but I don't shoot down games nor the people that like them simply because they aren't for me. I see the value in everything, but long for something I can really get into.
It is very easy to say a game will fail, but I'd rather have some hope and with that be a part of something that may actually have some future. SOE is going about it all differently this time around and it seems to be jarring for many. From F2P, early access, players being involved in development, not following the same old traditional mechanics, etc, some can't accept change or a new take on things. I for one have been playing these games (18+ years) way too long and I'm hopeful for the future, while still not being a total fanboi with blinders on.
not offended but you're also wrong... and you dont listen
limited action set, 4 or 5 active abilities a time.. i never said you cant change them out of combat, but you are limited to however many it is on your bars so it doesnt make for a huge choice when you combine everything together giving you access to 100's of abilities but only being able to use 4 or 5.
You have 8 abilities on a bar at a time (4 weapon 4 secondary), with the ability to hotswap a weapon's 4 for another weapon's 4 during combat (similar to GW2) so 8-12 "active" at a time depending on how you look at it. Again, add in gear/combos and you have much more. Compared to games that simply give you 50 skills to litter the screen with where you average use only a portion of them at any given time anyway.
Stand in place and go down the row or be active and use skills pro/reactive to what is happening, both get the job done, but I find actually have to move around and engage to be much more fun.
Latest Dev video talked about gear/skills that would react to movement (double tap forward and go invisible) again adds in a lot more possibilities then just hitting #1-100, which turns into a bunch of macros.
and on the whole roaming mob packs thing.. many companies with developer teams whom are a lot more talented have tried to bring intelligent AI or dymanic mob packs to game... and it has never panned out.
Examples? It has been said by a few devs from different teams that it is easy to make AI that is impossible to kill and simply too hard, the trick is finding the balance to where it is hard but beatable. Storybricks seems to have a good way to approach it. Will it be perfect? Doubtful, but compared to what other games have currently, it can't be worse. Why you and so many aren't excited to have companies at least attempting new things is lost on me. I'd rather they try and fail then just throw in the towel and make the same old crap.
and just because they took the everquest out of landmark.. clearly you're misunderstanding what i'm saying... Landmark is a tech demo for the engine they will be using on EQN, thats why there is next to no info besides a tech demo for EQN, why there is no progress no alpha and why the game is so far out... Because Landmark is testing the capabilities of the engine and they're making tweaks here and there so they have a solid engine to start building EQN ontop of and thats the one thing they have going for them the way they are running the project, doing something like this to test the capabilities of their engine before building a game ontop of it and then being like "shit it doesnt do what we need it too" is the best thing they could do.
Ah, I see then. Guess I misunderstood. While it is for sure helping EQN's development, it is also entertaining a different type of gamer (which I am not). Landmark is and will become more of a mmo unto itself. There appears to be one team working on both games, but certain devs are not working both (races, lore, classes, etc).
From the videos and what not, they rattle of their titles and what they do, so even though Landmark has the spotlight currently, there is work being done on the EQN as well. Don't need water to work to be able to design a Ranger for example or an Iksar. In the end, I'm hoping this leads to EQN having a lot of polish unlike many "finished" games that clearly need more time in oven.
i am very happy with many things, if it was more polished and fluid i would really like ESO's combat system i still feel it's a little clunky but the idea behind is it great and has been seen before but they have done a good job with it.
As a huge DAoC fan, I would of loved for ESO to have ended up better but as a non-ES/Skyrim fan, just not my thing, especially with all the issues it has.
i like grouping from eq1 the feeling of teamwork and sense of accomplishment for getting things done... no working map, no minimap, just go out and explore. nothing telling you where to go unless you talk to other adventurers who tell you about things they have come across in their travels.
No ! or arrows pointing the way, but I'm guessing a map will be there in some form. Many ways to do it that aren't GPS style easymode. As far as teamwork, that is what you make of it, in any game. But from the sound of it, they aren't making a game that can be soloed in every aspect. Doesn't mean soloers can't have fun, just won't be taking down Dragons after reaching lvl 100 and having amazing gear, it just won't be a thing.
i like not having a global auction house. Can't remember what they said exactly, but socializing and trade have been mentioned many times and how they want to bring it back. Bazaars and player run shops have been talked about as well.
i like not having a cluttered and intrusive UI Check
i like a real open world featureset like ultima online Check
i like challenging games. Check
i like games that i dont complete in a week of gameplay Check
i like big open world bosses that takes groups of people todo like 40+ i also dont mind structured instanced raiding. Possible, they've alluded to "raids" of massive size instead of 20-40 hard caps. A random Orc war party needing ~20 people to a lone Dragon needing ~50+ in the open at random sounds fun to me. No idea on instances.
i like OWPvP, but i also like structured arena style. Seems logical first will be in, even if Opt-In or server specific, no idea on 2nd again as instances aren't supposed to be a big deal, but you never know.
there is many things i like and many MMO's i like but none of them have really come together in one package and i dont see EQN doing it either, especially if developed by sony, they just dont have what they need and thats the thing... none of these big developers really do because they hire average software engineers for a start on average wages.. they dont go big and hire a truely talented solftware engineer and pay him accordingly and thats why for the game you want, you really wanna start looking towards indie devs.. like i mean hell, the combat system written for DAOC was some nobody junior developer working at the company at the time... and combat in DAOC was amazing, they got lucky... it wasnt a big name, it wasnt someone with years of experience and the fact of the matter is like someone said earlier, the years of experience that sony devs have now... is with everquest 2 style games.
DAoC's did many things right, combat was one of them. Wish more of it had made it to ESO. Regardless of the talent, they can make something great or crap. Just depends on overall goals of the game and teams focus. I'm giving them my faith at the moment. Could go either way, but so far, it's leaning more towards the right way (to me).
Edit - and just on a side note, i've still thrown my money at every MMO that has come out even when i knew i really shouldnt, because i do have hope and am willing to give everything a shot... atm i'm playing ESO vet 10 sorc, i still find it fun and am waiting for craglorn because the game doesnt have much todo really outside of that, but i have a 3 month sub.. and i genereally always 3 month sub when a new game comes out.. i give it ample time to be good....
I get way too into games to do it anymore. Overloading my old brain with everything a game has just to move on in a few months has made me forget more things then I wish to remember. If they give any timeline for EQN at SOE Live this year and it is a ways off, I might give ESO or hell even Wildstar a run just to waste time, but it's hard throwing money and time away just because. Luckily have TF2 and a little Smite to keep me busy.
not to mention i constantly go back and play older MMO's, i enjoy going back to SWTOR sometimes, Rift, forsaken world, TSW, AoC, TERA, Champions Online, WoW, EQ1 on aftermarket original servers... there are many old mmo's i regularly jump back in and have a mess around for a while... so many games make me happy and i enjoy being able to play them when i choose... EQN just doesnt feel right
I tried playing WoW for a week after quitting many years ago, made it 2 logins and uninstalled. EQ is just not the same game as well and even if it was (Project99) there is a reason most people left to begin with. All I can do is look towards the future. Been really thinking about giving DAoC a run just for old times, have to remember my old account info though lol.
And for the highlighted bit.. it's a great marketing ploy and will lead to great free content they dont have to develop but as for EQN itself... it wont change much, the game will still be developed how the developers make it not by the consumer interaction
I agree to a point. Depends greatly on how involved players get to be. I'm doubting it will be as early as Landmark with Alpha/Beta, etc, but even if it is simply testing mechanics in Landmark or letting players vote on what they want races to look like (Iksar https://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/index.php?threads/everquest-next-iksar-concept-art-shown.545073/ ) I think that is a nice change compared to many games that aren't shown to the public until 95% finished and then we get in first day and realize it is more like 75% finished.
Overall, I just don't get the negativity towards SOE, EQN, or any company/game in development. If it's not your thing, great, why bother then? Being critical and what not, doesn't add anything to the conversation. Have a better idea? Let the devs know and get in the conversation.
I liked a lot of what ESO/WS have to offer, but I don't go into their forums and go "XYZ suck so this game will suck, because I say so!" I'm not blind and have more then enough gaming history to know that no game will be perfect and promises never turn out to be exactly what they were. Doesn't mean a product can't still be good without meeting everything 100% of the way.
Even if half of what they promise with EQN turns out to be as good as it's hyped, wouldn't that be better then what else is out there?
I'm highly doubtful that they are focusing so much on AI, "emergent" gameplay, dynamic world, etc just to have it be the same old thing. Voxels are nice and all, but the systems on top the world are where the magic is going to happen.
It might be another year or two until we see some real light at the end of the tunnel, but I'm not going anywhere and there isn't anything else out that is even slighly as promising. Hopping Blizzard makes some buzz soon, but I'm doubting we'll see their next until it is a good ways through development.
In the end, EQN has promise for me, it might not be everyone's cup of tea or it simply might be too hyped for many. Being F2P, good thing is when it does come out, we can all give it a try and either love it or hate it and not spend a dime doing so.
Again, it is very easy to say a game will fail, won't innovate, just a carbon copy, etc, but when they are asking for input and help, doesn't take a lot of effort to actually contribute and add to the process instead of going "Fail!" and walking away. I know it is the cool thing to hate on just about everything these days, but I'm still one of those that likes to have some hope and faith that a company can deliver. What do you lose by having hope? I'm not going to cry myself to sleep if EQN turns out terrible, but won't be getting any sleep if it turns out great.
Originally posted by Daikuru My last hope is Camelot Unchained, i think EQN will fail.
I PvP battle ground with crafting is going to save MMOs? I dont think MMOs need saving but CU is a far stretch from a real MMO lol
I was thinking the same thing. EQN is what we're looking for when it comes to a "real MMO". A massive open game world that's constantly changing and where player's actions real effects and consequences, both for your character and the world.
CU looks good for a pvp battleground but it's not something I'd see myself hanging around for more than a couple months.
Everything we've heard so far about EQN makes me feel like it's a game I can dive into for years, imho.
I think Elite: Dangerous could be the surprise MMORPG hit of this year. The budget is being spent on development, rather than marketing, which is why it's hardly discussed.
Marketing budgets play a big role in hyping games up.
and totally agree some guy above said "It will be the last great hope till it launches".
I don't believe the greatest MMO of all, because every games always have haters and fanboies Seeing flamewars in MMO forums is common things in this community.
I cant believe people are still getting hyped on plain promises...Eqn showed us so few lousy videos, said the game will be super awesome and half the people here are shi****ing their pants like if they werent let down so many time
Once i see a proper gameplay with all the features they promised i might change my mind. But what i see now is a giant bubble hyped up on famous Ip in mmo genre and nothing to back up its claims - not impressed
We're hyped not because they're not promising a huge amount of unrealistic and wild ideas. Just a handful of completely doable concepts that many of us long time MMO fans have been craving and all the major AAA MMOs have failed to deliver.
Casual? Compared to what? Everything we've heard so far sounds like EQN will be exactly what hardcore MMO fans wants.
Countless build possibilities when customizing your character's abilities and gear.
PVE Content where skill, teamwork and strategy are what matter, instead of how many levels you grinded.
Dynamic AI
A living world where your actions make a difference
Huge focus on exploration
Sounds to me like a real MMORPG, one that makes all others look like casual baby toys in comparison.
Maybe we have different ideas of what hardcore is.
It isn't going to have the holy trinity from what I heard so that pretty much ends the idea that it's going to have everything hardcore MMO gamers want. In fact that probably alienates 1/3 of the hardcore gamers automatically.
Casual? Compared to what? Everything we've heard so far sounds like EQN will be exactly what hardcore MMO fans wants.
Countless build possibilities when customizing your character's abilities and gear.
PVE Content where skill, teamwork and strategy are what matter, instead of how many levels you grinded.
Dynamic AI
A living world where your actions make a difference
Huge focus on exploration
Sounds to me like a real MMORPG, one that makes all others look like casual baby toys in comparison.
Maybe we have different ideas of what hardcore is.
It isn't going to have the holy trinity from what I heard so that pretty much ends the idea that it's going to have everything hardcore MMO gamers want. In fact that probably alienates 1/3 of the hardcore gamers automatically.
That's yet to be seen. I was under the impression that they were going to have a huge amount of classes, a multiclass system and each class was going to be customizable with other cross-class skills and different gear. The end result would be roles in some form, but where no one character is pigeon holed into one role for their entire life.
From what we've heard so far I also thought they were going with a mix role concept as well. Where you can choose to focus on a specific role, or be a jack of all trades, and freely switch between different builds.
Frankly, games with dedicated hard-roles says nothing about how "hardcore" a game is and furthermore the old style of forcing a specific role or set of roles on a group makeup to play has way too many negatives that don't outweigh the positives.
A system where there is middle ground would be far more preferable.
Have a person who actually WANTS to play healer? Great, allow it through specific class, skill and gear combos.
No one around that wants to play a healer? That's fine too! Just have everyone in the group drop one of their DPS, CC, buff support or tanking skills and everyone slot up a healing ability to make up for the lack of a healer.
This kind of system doesn't force roles, but allows for players to focus on a specific role if they want. This is what EQN is aiming for as far as I can tell. Freedom, customization, role playing. A real RPG.
No offense, but I'm guessing you are a player that will never be happy with anything. No matter what is given. You expect a game to be made for you and you alone, which is crazy. Seems many gamers have this same mentality. If it isn't perfect in your eyes it will simply fail. I'm glad that I'm not closed minded and enjoy many types of games and don't have to have 100% of what I want to be happy. Would be nice, but isn't reality.
I'm still picky and over the years have stopped throwing my money at every new mmo to come out (thank you F2P), but I don't shoot down games nor the people that like them simply because they aren't for me. I see the value in everything, but long for something I can really get into.
It is very easy to say a game will fail, but I'd rather have some hope and with that be a part of something that may actually have some future. SOE is going about it all differently this time around and it seems to be jarring for many. From F2P, early access, players being involved in development, not following the same old traditional mechanics, etc, some can't accept change or a new take on things. I for one have been playing these games (18+ years) way too long and I'm hopeful for the future, while still not being a total fanboi with blinders on.
not offended but you're also wrong... and you dont listen
limited action set, 4 or 5 active abilities a time.. i never said you cant change them out of combat, but you are limited to however many it is on your bars so it doesnt make for a huge choice when you combine everything together giving you access to 100's of abilities but only being able to use 4 or 5.
You have 8 abilities on a bar at a time (4 weapon 4 secondary), with the ability to hotswap a weapon's 4 for another weapon's 4 during combat (similar to GW2) so 8-12 "active" at a time depending on how you look at it. Again, add in gear/combos and you have much more. Compared to games that simply give you 50 skills to litter the screen with where you average use only a portion of them at any given time anyway.
Stand in place and go down the row or be active and use skills pro/reactive to what is happening, both get the job done, but I find actually have to move around and engage to be much more fun.
Latest Dev video talked about gear/skills that would react to movement (double tap forward and go invisible) again adds in a lot more possibilities then just hitting #1-100, which turns into a bunch of macros.
and on the whole roaming mob packs thing.. many companies with developer teams whom are a lot more talented have tried to bring intelligent AI or dymanic mob packs to game... and it has never panned out.
Examples? It has been said by a few devs from different teams that it is easy to make AI that is impossible to kill and simply too hard, the trick is finding the balance to where it is hard but beatable. Storybricks seems to have a good way to approach it. Will it be perfect? Doubtful, but compared to what other games have currently, it can't be worse. Why you and so many aren't excited to have companies at least attempting new things is lost on me. I'd rather they try and fail then just throw in the towel and make the same old crap.
and just because they took the everquest out of landmark.. clearly you're misunderstanding what i'm saying... Landmark is a tech demo for the engine they will be using on EQN, thats why there is next to no info besides a tech demo for EQN, why there is no progress no alpha and why the game is so far out... Because Landmark is testing the capabilities of the engine and they're making tweaks here and there so they have a solid engine to start building EQN ontop of and thats the one thing they have going for them the way they are running the project, doing something like this to test the capabilities of their engine before building a game ontop of it and then being like "shit it doesnt do what we need it too" is the best thing they could do.
Ah, I see then. Guess I misunderstood. While it is for sure helping EQN's development, it is also entertaining a different type of gamer (which I am not). Landmark is and will become more of a mmo unto itself. There appears to be one team working on both games, but certain devs are not working both (races, lore, classes, etc).
From the videos and what not, they rattle of their titles and what they do, so even though Landmark has the spotlight currently, there is work being done on the EQN as well. Don't need water to work to be able to design a Ranger for example or an Iksar. In the end, I'm hoping this leads to EQN having a lot of polish unlike many "finished" games that clearly need more time in oven.
i am very happy with many things, if it was more polished and fluid i would really like ESO's combat system i still feel it's a little clunky but the idea behind is it great and has been seen before but they have done a good job with it.
As a huge DAoC fan, I would of loved for ESO to have ended up better but as a non-ES/Skyrim fan, just not my thing, especially with all the issues it has.
i like grouping from eq1 the feeling of teamwork and sense of accomplishment for getting things done... no working map, no minimap, just go out and explore. nothing telling you where to go unless you talk to other adventurers who tell you about things they have come across in their travels.
No ! or arrows pointing the way, but I'm guessing a map will be there in some form. Many ways to do it that aren't GPS style easymode. As far as teamwork, that is what you make of it, in any game. But from the sound of it, they aren't making a game that can be soloed in every aspect. Doesn't mean soloers can't have fun, just won't be taking down Dragons after reaching lvl 100 and having amazing gear, it just won't be a thing.
i like not having a global auction house. Can't remember what they said exactly, but socializing and trade have been mentioned many times and how they want to bring it back. Bazaars and player run shops have been talked about as well.
i like not having a cluttered and intrusive UI Check
i like a real open world featureset like ultima online Check
i like challenging games. Check
i like games that i dont complete in a week of gameplay Check
i like big open world bosses that takes groups of people todo like 40+ i also dont mind structured instanced raiding. Possible, they've alluded to "raids" of massive size instead of 20-40 hard caps. A random Orc war party needing ~20 people to a lone Dragon needing ~50+ in the open at random sounds fun to me. No idea on instances.
i like OWPvP, but i also like structured arena style. Seems logical first will be in, even if Opt-In or server specific, no idea on 2nd again as instances aren't supposed to be a big deal, but you never know.
there is many things i like and many MMO's i like but none of them have really come together in one package and i dont see EQN doing it either, especially if developed by sony, they just dont have what they need and thats the thing... none of these big developers really do because they hire average software engineers for a start on average wages.. they dont go big and hire a truely talented solftware engineer and pay him accordingly and thats why for the game you want, you really wanna start looking towards indie devs.. like i mean hell, the combat system written for DAOC was some nobody junior developer working at the company at the time... and combat in DAOC was amazing, they got lucky... it wasnt a big name, it wasnt someone with years of experience and the fact of the matter is like someone said earlier, the years of experience that sony devs have now... is with everquest 2 style games.
DAoC's did many things right, combat was one of them. Wish more of it had made it to ESO. Regardless of the talent, they can make something great or crap. Just depends on overall goals of the game and teams focus. I'm giving them my faith at the moment. Could go either way, but so far, it's leaning more towards the right way (to me).
Edit - and just on a side note, i've still thrown my money at every MMO that has come out even when i knew i really shouldnt, because i do have hope and am willing to give everything a shot... atm i'm playing ESO vet 10 sorc, i still find it fun and am waiting for craglorn because the game doesnt have much todo really outside of that, but i have a 3 month sub.. and i genereally always 3 month sub when a new game comes out.. i give it ample time to be good....
I get way too into games to do it anymore. Overloading my old brain with everything a game has just to move on in a few months has made me forget more things then I wish to remember. If they give any timeline for EQN at SOE Live this year and it is a ways off, I might give ESO or hell even Wildstar a run just to waste time, but it's hard throwing money and time away just because. Luckily have TF2 and a little Smite to keep me busy.
not to mention i constantly go back and play older MMO's, i enjoy going back to SWTOR sometimes, Rift, forsaken world, TSW, AoC, TERA, Champions Online, WoW, EQ1 on aftermarket original servers... there are many old mmo's i regularly jump back in and have a mess around for a while... so many games make me happy and i enjoy being able to play them when i choose... EQN just doesnt feel right
I tried playing WoW for a week after quitting many years ago, made it 2 logins and uninstalled. EQ is just not the same game as well and even if it was (Project99) there is a reason most people left to begin with. All I can do is look towards the future. Been really thinking about giving DAoC a run just for old times, have to remember my old account info though lol.
And for the highlighted bit.. it's a great marketing ploy and will lead to great free content they dont have to develop but as for EQN itself... it wont change much, the game will still be developed how the developers make it not by the consumer interaction
I agree to a point. Depends greatly on how involved players get to be. I'm doubting it will be as early as Landmark with Alpha/Beta, etc, but even if it is simply testing mechanics in Landmark or letting players vote on what they want races to look like (Iksar https://forums.station.sony.com/eq2/index.php?threads/everquest-next-iksar-concept-art-shown.545073/ ) I think that is a nice change compared to many games that aren't shown to the public until 95% finished and then we get in first day and realize it is more like 75% finished.
Overall, I just don't get the negativity towards SOE, EQN, or any company/game in development. If it's not your thing, great, why bother then? Being critical and what not, doesn't add anything to the conversation. Have a better idea? Let the devs know and get in the conversation.
I liked a lot of what ESO/WS have to offer, but I don't go into their forums and go "XYZ suck so this game will suck, because I say so!" I'm not blind and have more then enough gaming history to know that no game will be perfect and promises never turn out to be exactly what they were. Doesn't mean a product can't still be good without meeting everything 100% of the way.
Even if half of what they promise with EQN turns out to be as good as it's hyped, wouldn't that be better then what else is out there?
I'm highly doubtful that they are focusing so much on AI, "emergent" gameplay, dynamic world, etc just to have it be the same old thing. Voxels are nice and all, but the systems on top the world are where the magic is going to happen.
It might be another year or two until we see some real light at the end of the tunnel, but I'm not going anywhere and there isn't anything else out that is even slighly as promising. Hopping Blizzard makes some buzz soon, but I'm doubting we'll see their next until it is a good ways through development.
In the end, EQN has promise for me, it might not be everyone's cup of tea or it simply might be too hyped for many. Being F2P, good thing is when it does come out, we can all give it a try and either love it or hate it and not spend a dime doing so.
Again, it is very easy to say a game will fail, won't innovate, just a carbon copy, etc, but when they are asking for input and help, doesn't take a lot of effort to actually contribute and add to the process instead of going "Fail!" and walking away. I know it is the cool thing to hate on just about everything these days, but I'm still one of those that likes to have some hope and faith that a company can deliver. What do you lose by having hope? I'm not going to cry myself to sleep if EQN turns out terrible, but won't be getting any sleep if it turns out great.
Holy crap. Someone has way to much time on their hands.
Holy crap. Someone has way to much time on their hands.
While I can't disagree completely, I haven't played an mmorpg for going on 2+ years I think so all that time wasted in game is wasted on forums and I do type pretty fast
I do my best to cut back, but I have a hard time summing up actual thoughts into one liners or brief statements that barely touch the surface of what I want to say.
If people are going to give "facts" or opinions that some how justify what the are stating ("Fail!"), I prefer when there is some actual substance to back it up or not.
Casual? Compared to what? Everything we've heard so far sounds like EQN will be exactly what hardcore MMO fans wants.
Countless build possibilities when customizing your character's abilities and gear.
PVE Content where skill, teamwork and strategy are what matter, instead of how many levels you grinded.
Dynamic AI
A living world where your actions make a difference
Huge focus on exploration
Sounds to me like a real MMORPG, one that makes all others look like casual baby toys in comparison.
Maybe we have different ideas of what hardcore is.
It isn't going to have the holy trinity from what I heard so that pretty much ends the idea that it's going to have everything hardcore MMO gamers want. In fact that probably alienates 1/3 of the hardcore gamers automatically.
Really depends on what you consider "hardcore." For me the common use I see seems to mean time-sink. Many connect "oldschool" with "hardcore" but not everyone does. I would much rather it actually mean hard as in challenging, instead of who can sit on their ass the longest standing in place going down a long row of skills.
Holy trinity along with tab targeting and grinding are about as non-hardcore as a game can get for me. Never felt challenged in early EQ or vanilla WoW for all the "hardcore" claims people have about raiding. Show up with XYZ classes, learn the pattern, repeat until geared, learn next pattern, repeat... When you can google/youtube what to do, not very hard.
Now if they can get emergent AI to actually make players think on their toes, have to figure out what class/build/gear to use and have it change from one encounter to the next, I might find a challenge worthy of being called "hardcore."
Show up with XYZ classes, learn the pattern, repeat until geared, learn next pattern, repeat... When you can google/youtube what to do, not very hard.
Yes, the fact that it was so easy is why everyone in the game was able to beat those raids. People love to brag about how things are so easy for them and the only reason for failure is because "other people", riiiiight.
"I'm so good and everything is so easy for me I'm a genius, it's always other people that bring me down."
"If there were only a way to do large scale raids by myself, I could beat the encounter the first time out....I'm just that good, same with Pvp, that's why the best rewards should come from 1v1 so I don't have lose by being forced to play with others who simply aren't on my level"
Sorry, but nobody that actually played the content back then buys this load of BS that gets parroted by vanilla wow "pro's".
Comments
No offense, but I'm guessing you are a player that will never be happy with anything. No matter what is given. You expect a game to be made for you and you alone, which is crazy. Seems many gamers have this same mentality. If it isn't perfect in your eyes it will simply fail. I'm glad that I'm not closed minded and enjoy many types of games and don't have to have 100% of what I want to be happy. Would be nice, but isn't reality.
I'm still picky and over the years have stopped throwing my money at every new mmo to come out (thank you F2P), but I don't shoot down games nor the people that like them simply because they aren't for me. I see the value in everything, but long for something I can really get into.
It is very easy to say a game will fail, but I'd rather have some hope and with that be a part of something that may actually have some future. SOE is going about it all differently this time around and it seems to be jarring for many. From F2P, early access, players being involved in development, not following the same old traditional mechanics, etc, some can't accept change or a new take on things. I for one have been playing these games (18+ years) way too long and I'm hopeful for the future, while still not being a total fanboi with blinders on.
not offended but you're also wrong... and you dont listen
limited action set, 4 or 5 active abilities a time.. i never said you cant change them out of combat, but you are limited to however many it is on your bars so it doesnt make for a huge choice when you combine everything together giving you access to 100's of abilities but only being able to use 4 or 5.
and on the whole roaming mob packs thing.. many companies with developer teams whom are a lot more talented have tried to bring intelligent AI or dymanic mob packs to game... and it has never panned out.
and just because they took the everquest out of landmark.. clearly you're misunderstanding what i'm saying... Landmark is a tech demo for the engine they will be using on EQN, thats why there is next to no info besides a tech demo for EQN, why there is no progress no alpha and why the game is so far out... Because Landmark is testing the capabilities of the engine and they're making tweaks here and there so they have a solid engine to start building EQN ontop of and thats the one thing they have going for them the way they are running the project, doing something like this to test the capabilities of their engine before building a game ontop of it and then being like "shit it doesnt do what we need it too" is the best thing they could do.
i am very happy with many things, if it was more polished and fluid i would really like ESO's combat system i still feel it's a little clunky but the idea behind is it great and has been seen before but they have done a good job with it.
i like grouping from eq1 the feeling of teamwork and sense of accomplishment for getting things done... no working map, no minimap, just go out and explore. nothing telling you where to go unless you talk to other adventurers who tell you about things they have come across in their travels.
i like not having a global auction house.
i like not having a cluttered and intrusive UI
i like a real open world featureset like ultima online
i like challenging games.
i like games that i dont complete in a week of gameplay
i like big open world bosses that takes groups of people todo like 40+ i also dont mind structured instanced raiding.
i like OWPvP, but i also like structured arena style.
there is many things i like and many MMO's i like but none of them have really come together in one package and i dont see EQN doing it either, especially if developed by sony, they just dont have what they need and thats the thing... none of these big developers really do because they hire average software engineers for a start on average wages.. they dont go big and hire a truely talented solftware engineer and pay him accordingly and thats why for the game you want, you really wanna start looking towards indie devs.. like i mean hell, the combat system written for DAOC was some nobody junior developer working at the company at the time... and combat in DAOC was amazing, they got lucky... it wasnt a big name, it wasnt someone with years of experience and the fact of the matter is like someone said earlier, the years of experience that sony devs have now... is with everquest 2 style games.
Edit - and just on a side note, i've still thrown my money at every MMO that has come out even when i knew i really shouldnt, because i do have hope and am willing to give everything a shot... atm i'm playing ESO vet 10 sorc, i still find it fun and am waiting for craglorn because the game doesnt have much todo really outside of that, but i have a 3 month sub.. and i genereally always 3 month sub when a new game comes out.. i give it ample time to be good....
not to mention i constantly go back and play older MMO's, i enjoy going back to SWTOR sometimes, Rift, forsaken world, TSW, AoC, TERA, Champions Online, WoW, EQ1 on aftermarket original servers... there are many old mmo's i regularly jump back in and have a mess around for a while... so many games make me happy and i enjoy being able to play them when i choose... EQN just doesnt feel right
And for the highlighted bit.. it's a great marketing ploy and will lead to great free content they dont have to develop but as for EQN itself... it wont change much, the game will still be developed how the developers make it not by the consumer interaction
I would agree with this if 90% of them weren't carbon copies of each other. Kinda removes the whole variety thing from the equation. The better statement is that there's far too many WoW clones and not enough that appreciate older successes, innovation and immersion.
So many of us feel this way.
I havent bought subscription MMO since WAR. And very sadly do not consider it to be genre with any valid merit anymore.
And I used to be MMORPG fanatic.
EQN is the last card in the deck.
Its last AAA mmo developed. And last AAA mmo developed that is claiming to change this now dying genre.
Its going to either make it , and lead a way for change in industry.
Or fail and with it the western AAA MMOs as we knew will fade away as did point and click games.
EQN is going to make the same mistake as GW2....
No trinity and "console" action bar.
For me this is already extremely disapointed.
I cant stand GW2 for more then 20 min due to its combat mechanics.
But to each his own style of play ! i respect that !!!
!
Archege is the mmo that looks fresh with "old"style tab target and whack a mole healer and a action bar for 40 keybindings
If EQN had something similar then it would have been perfect.
But most of us know that its going to be a zerg mmo, as thats what you get when you dont have decent healing class
- Albert Einstein
I cant believe people are still getting hyped on plain promises...Eqn showed us so few lousy videos, said the game will be super awesome and half the people here are shi****ing their pants like if they werent let down so many time
Once i see a proper gameplay with all the features they promised i might change my mind. But what i see now is a giant bubble hyped up on famous Ip in mmo genre and nothing to back up its claims - not impressed
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
I don't think EQN is going to succeed either for similar reasons.
Also,
It's not about what SOE is telling us the game is going to be. I already know it wont. No MMORPG that has been hyped has released and still delivered the "experience" the develper (And pre-release fan base) said it would. Looking back at all the post-WoW theme parks. All the promises made and broken.
While I did enjoy GW2, I still believe that one of the things that hurt that game more than anything else was the Manifesto. Because of that, the expectations of the game were artificially inflated and while GW2 delivered on features referenced by the Manifesto,(barely) the overall experiences promised by it were not. And GW2 is not alone. SWTOR, Rift, AoC, and others, most recently ESO also failed to deliver on that "promise". Just look at all the titles that came with hype. None of them delivered.
But look at FFXIV. The game was not really hyped by SE. After the initial failure, SE kept a low profile. They said what the game will be and made sure that the game was what they said. The game was a sleeper hit and is still doing well. Quite simply, It delivered on what it said it would deliver. (For the most part)
And I can already tell where SoE's priorities are in this game. It's not the player's experience. It's mass appeal and monetization. The same exact priority that caused the issues with all the other MMOs.
This game will be no different. It will not deliver and it will not save the genre.
Overall, I just don't get the negativity towards SOE, EQN, or any company/game in development. If it's not your thing, great, why bother then? Being critical and what not, doesn't add anything to the conversation. Have a better idea? Let the devs know and get in the conversation.
I liked a lot of what ESO/WS have to offer, but I don't go into their forums and go "XYZ suck so this game will suck, because I say so!" I'm not blind and have more then enough gaming history to know that no game will be perfect and promises never turn out to be exactly what they were. Doesn't mean a product can't still be good without meeting everything 100% of the way.
Even if half of what they promise with EQN turns out to be as good as it's hyped, wouldn't that be better then what else is out there?
I'm highly doubtful that they are focusing so much on AI, "emergent" gameplay, dynamic world, etc just to have it be the same old thing. Voxels are nice and all, but the systems on top the world are where the magic is going to happen.
It might be another year or two until we see some real light at the end of the tunnel, but I'm not going anywhere and there isn't anything else out that is even slighly as promising. Hopping Blizzard makes some buzz soon, but I'm doubting we'll see their next until it is a good ways through development.
In the end, EQN has promise for me, it might not be everyone's cup of tea or it simply might be too hyped for many. Being F2P, good thing is when it does come out, we can all give it a try and either love it or hate it and not spend a dime doing so.
Again, it is very easy to say a game will fail, won't innovate, just a carbon copy, etc, but when they are asking for input and help, doesn't take a lot of effort to actually contribute and add to the process instead of going "Fail!" and walking away. I know it is the cool thing to hate on just about everything these days, but I'm still one of those that likes to have some hope and faith that a company can deliver. What do you lose by having hope? I'm not going to cry myself to sleep if EQN turns out terrible, but won't be getting any sleep if it turns out great.
"The last great hope"
im happy with ArceAge
I PvP battle ground with crafting is going to save MMOs? I dont think MMOs need saving but CU is a far stretch from a real MMO lol
I was thinking the same thing. EQN is what we're looking for when it comes to a "real MMO". A massive open game world that's constantly changing and where player's actions real effects and consequences, both for your character and the world.
CU looks good for a pvp battleground but it's not something I'd see myself hanging around for more than a couple months.
Everything we've heard so far about EQN makes me feel like it's a game I can dive into for years, imho.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Did the OP just call EQN the Great White Hope?
And how did that turn out?
I think Elite: Dangerous could be the surprise MMORPG hit of this year. The budget is being spent on development, rather than marketing, which is why it's hardly discussed.
Marketing budgets play a big role in hyping games up.
and totally agree some guy above said "It will be the last great hope till it launches".
I don't believe the greatest MMO of all, because every games always have haters and fanboies
Seeing flamewars in MMO forums is common things in this community.
No, he called it the last great hope.
We're hyped not because they're not promising a huge amount of unrealistic and wild ideas. Just a handful of completely doable concepts that many of us long time MMO fans have been craving and all the major AAA MMOs have failed to deliver.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
It isn't going to have the holy trinity from what I heard so that pretty much ends the idea that it's going to have everything hardcore MMO gamers want. In fact that probably alienates 1/3 of the hardcore gamers automatically.
That's yet to be seen. I was under the impression that they were going to have a huge amount of classes, a multiclass system and each class was going to be customizable with other cross-class skills and different gear. The end result would be roles in some form, but where no one character is pigeon holed into one role for their entire life.
From what we've heard so far I also thought they were going with a mix role concept as well. Where you can choose to focus on a specific role, or be a jack of all trades, and freely switch between different builds.
Frankly, games with dedicated hard-roles says nothing about how "hardcore" a game is and furthermore the old style of forcing a specific role or set of roles on a group makeup to play has way too many negatives that don't outweigh the positives.
A system where there is middle ground would be far more preferable.
Have a person who actually WANTS to play healer? Great, allow it through specific class, skill and gear combos.
No one around that wants to play a healer? That's fine too! Just have everyone in the group drop one of their DPS, CC, buff support or tanking skills and everyone slot up a healing ability to make up for the lack of a healer.
This kind of system doesn't force roles, but allows for players to focus on a specific role if they want. This is what EQN is aiming for as far as I can tell. Freedom, customization, role playing. A real RPG.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
Holy crap. Someone has way to much time on their hands.
While I can't disagree completely, I haven't played an mmorpg for going on 2+ years I think so all that time wasted in game is wasted on forums and I do type pretty fast
I do my best to cut back, but I have a hard time summing up actual thoughts into one liners or brief statements that barely touch the surface of what I want to say.
If people are going to give "facts" or opinions that some how justify what the are stating ("Fail!"), I prefer when there is some actual substance to back it up or not.
Really depends on what you consider "hardcore." For me the common use I see seems to mean time-sink. Many connect "oldschool" with "hardcore" but not everyone does. I would much rather it actually mean hard as in challenging, instead of who can sit on their ass the longest standing in place going down a long row of skills.
Holy trinity along with tab targeting and grinding are about as non-hardcore as a game can get for me. Never felt challenged in early EQ or vanilla WoW for all the "hardcore" claims people have about raiding. Show up with XYZ classes, learn the pattern, repeat until geared, learn next pattern, repeat... When you can google/youtube what to do, not very hard.
Now if they can get emergent AI to actually make players think on their toes, have to figure out what class/build/gear to use and have it change from one encounter to the next, I might find a challenge worthy of being called "hardcore."
But the term always makes me think of this lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBJyioEMz74
Only one person gets touched, oops my bad. Was being too hardcore!
Glad I aged out before that became the thing, love the guys in front of cam, listening to slow jams maybe?
Yes, the fact that it was so easy is why everyone in the game was able to beat those raids. People love to brag about how things are so easy for them and the only reason for failure is because "other people", riiiiight.
"I'm so good and everything is so easy for me I'm a genius, it's always other people that bring me down."
"If there were only a way to do large scale raids by myself, I could beat the encounter the first time out....I'm just that good, same with Pvp, that's why the best rewards should come from 1v1 so I don't have lose by being forced to play with others who simply aren't on my level"
Sorry, but nobody that actually played the content back then buys this load of BS that gets parroted by vanilla wow "pro's".