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The reason why I hate Subscription MMOs...

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  • mrrshann618mrrshann618 Member UncommonPosts: 279

    It is fairly simple to me:

    Most new games are nothing compared to many of the older ones

    They make the same mistakes that the older ones have corrected

    The formula that the new game follows are a rehash of what is already done

    The only reason to pay a sub on a new game is because you want graphics

     

    Sorry nothing that has been put out in the last 5 years has been worth a sub. So I'll gladly pay/play as much or as little on these new games as I think they are WORTH ( not cost)

     

    On top of that , it is rarely "only 15$" I pay for subs on 3 people with multiple accounts.  I Really hate that "logic" I'm sure a heck not going to pay for a sub, even at $.01 a day if they do not play. That is simply wasting money no matter how "affordable"

     

    I pay for subs on games that I feel it is worth is. I play f2p on games when I want no commitment.

    Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going!
    -->  http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs  <--
    Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
  • DAS1337DAS1337 Member UncommonPosts: 2,610

    There are plenty of F2P games out there for you.  Also, the majority of P2P games are trending to F2P.  Some may take longer than others, but they will eventually turn the corner.

     

    Fact of the matter is, none of your excuses really make sense.  Probably because you didn't really think about it.  So you have less time.  So does everyone else when they get older, and that has nothing to do with the game, and all to do with your availability.  As I said, there are a ton of free games out there.

     

    Subscription based games have a different development focus.  The free games that you love often focus more on how to get your money, rather than actual content.  If they can achieve both goals at the same time, great, but creating content isn't always the main goal.  Sub based games create content because you are paying them.  They do it on a regular basis and they have to fix issues as quickly as possible, or they lose those paying customers.  Free game developers can take their time.  Those players can always come back for free when the problem eventually gets fixed.  They don't feel the same pressure to continually improve their product.

     

    Subscription games started long before WoW.  I'm not sure what you are trying to refer to when stating that people before WoW don't understand the concept of a subscription game.  My first MMO was Ultima Online.  I started back in 1997.  It was subscription based, as were almost every single MMO back then.  I think you either explained something wrong or you are assuming WoW created the subscription.  If this is true, I don't really need to continue picking this post apart.

     

    That speaks for itself.  Either way, let's be real here.  If you can't afford 50 cents a day, you shouldn't be playing.  Spend it on three meals out of the month.  Several car washes.  A cheap case of beer.  A football to play catch with.  Some flip flops for the summer.  A pack of nice underwear.  Etc etc etc.  I mean seriously, it's almost nothing for dozens of hours of entertainment.  

     

    All I see here, is yet another person who wants everything to be free.  

  • DAS1337DAS1337 Member UncommonPosts: 2,610
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    If $15/month is too expensive for you even for a game that you like, then it's not likely that you'd pay much in a "free to play" game, either, so why should publishers care about your opinion?

    The economic argument for "free to play" isn't that you'll get people to play for free who wouldn't pay a subscription.  It's that you'll get a handful of people to pay vastly more than $15/month--and those people necessarily aren't the sort who would complain that $15/month is too expensive.

    Stop bringing logic to the discussion.  You know it's not welcome here!

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    I love the posts that say where the money is going in Sub games but the truth is unless you'r doing their books you just don't know.  I see bots, bugs, and cash shops in both now a days.

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  • DamonVileDamonVile Member UncommonPosts: 4,818

    Do some of you people actually think you'll change the direction of the genre by casting these silly insults at made up stereo types ? Or do you do it just to feel better about your own choices ?

  • SomeOldBlokeSomeOldBloke Member UncommonPosts: 2,167
    I don't mind subbing for games that I think are worth it but there are very few games that I enjoy playing anymore. As someone said, $15 a month isn't much. I'd prefer it if they let you play the first 10 levels for free so you could get a taste for it then give you the option to buy and sub if you want to continue.
  • GoldenGateGoldenGate Member Posts: 20

    I rarely post here, but this thread started by the OP is simply moronic. I also work and don't have a lot of extra time, which is the case with most responsible, working adults in the world. This is not rocket science. If you don't have $15 of disposable income to spend each month on a game, REGARDLESS of how much you play, then DON'T FUCKING SUBSCRIBE!!!!!!!!  And don't whine about it, just don't subscribe! Jesus, man, I want a Ferrari, and I'm pissed that it costs so damn much, but I'm not posting on forums complaining about it, because you know what? Ferrari would tell me either make more money or do something else!

     

     

     

  • Moar61Moar61 Member UncommonPosts: 260

    The F2P model bugs the hell out of me because it always seems like you're being nagged to all hell to purchase things, I can never really get into the game.  With ESO I can go in and know I'll be A OK to do whatever I like. I understand why some people like F2P, but I couldn't fathom legit playing one.

  • bcbullybcbully Member EpicPosts: 11,843
    Maybe they should charge you every time you log in OP. That way people who do have time wont have to deal with all the f2p crap.
  • QuirhidQuirhid Member UncommonPosts: 6,230
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by Hrimnir
     

    If someone has more time to spend then the playing field isn't level. The time spent in an mmo doesn't work like real life. If you workout 80 hours a week in a gym you're not going to get more buff than someone working out on a more reasonable schedule. In fact you'll hurt yourself and actually lose progress.

    That isn't how it works in an mmmo. The more time spent is always beneficial. Paying the $15 gives everyone equal access, but it doesn't create a level playing field. That sort of system promotes time currency. It also pretends to ignore the sale of rmt gold currency to provide an advantage. P2P systems are inherently more susceptible to exploiting time (esp via account sharing) and gold sales.

    I've never said having more time to invest is unfair, nor do I think those with disposable income to burn is unfair. Don't fool yourself, people with more time and money own those without either.

    I don't like mandatory subs, but I don't really care if games use that model either because there are plenty of sub-free games to play. I just take issue with the ridiculous premise that p2p games have better development or communities. They don't. F2P games use some tactics to push people to buy things in their store. P2P games use some time sink tactics to keep players paying longer. Both need content or the player leaves.

    image

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  • GadarethGadareth Member UncommonPosts: 310

    Im a working stiff like most people I spend most of time at work and have very little time to play games. I also have to balance my budget and make sure all my bills are paid. For this reason I LIKE the subscription model it like my cable and broadband packages means I know exactly how much my entertainment each month will cost me and can hence budget for it.

    The great thing about the subscription model is that there is no nickle and dimeing in sight you pay the fee and you have access to everything. The only difference between me playing 5 - 10 hours a week and someone who plays 25 - 30 hours a week is he gets to the end game faster than I do.

    The reason I dislike  the f2p model is again as a reasonably intelligent adult I know the one golden rule " There is NO such thing as a FREE lunch" what this means is ultimately someone somewhere is paying  and if a lot of people are not paying that means the few who are are paying more.

    Guess what this means in reality it means that as a working stiff who can only pay 5 - 10 hours a week I am ultimately paying so that the 25-30 hour a week people with no jobs can play for free on my dime !!

    This is the reason I hate the F2P model.

     

     

     

  • SiugSiug Member UncommonPosts: 1,257
    If 15 dollars are such a problem for you then maybe you should find a better job instead of complaining in forums? Honestly, I cannot understand why devs even make new MMOs these days because there are much better investment opportunities. I cannot name any other business with customers whining, trolling and complaining no matter what you offer to them. Complaining about monthly fee of 15 dollars as a working person is just trolling if you live in NA or EU imo.
  • berenimberenim Member UncommonPosts: 162

     As said before I'd still prefer a capped pay per hour with cap model, or something like a scaled subscription. Not like the old times, where you had to pay per minute and in the end you could end up with a 500€/$ bill, but one that charges you a certain amount per hour and caps at the usual sub charge of 15$€/$ if you had your 50 or so hours/month, so you never have to pay more than 15€/$. Perhaps supported with a full fledged sub for a cheaper rate (since it results in steady income it should be rewarded) of 10€/$

     Or something like a scaling sub, with 5€/$ base per month then scales with your gametime to 7,50/10,00/12,50 and ends up at 15€/$ in the end capped after a certain amount of hours played. For example 10/20/30/40/50+ hours. The latter model has the disadvantage that you have to keep more of an eye on your gametime, since you do not want to end up with 10 hours and 5minutes played, since it would push you to the 7,50 rate for just 5 minutes.

     some P2P games would have kept me longer if I had the means to downgrade my playtime when it was rare,

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  • Mors.MagneMors.Magne Member UncommonPosts: 1,549

    If the game is good enough, I'm more than prepared to pay for it - regardless of the payment system.

     

    However, I'm not paying or playing any MMORPGs right now because they're not good enough.

     

    Hopefully, Elite: Dangerous will be good enough.

  • zimboy69zimboy69 Member UncommonPosts: 395

    £10 a month is cheap for  what you get

    and  it is cheap when you have one game and  one subscription to pay

     

    but how many subscriptions can you pay a month

    1,2  ,9, 10   there is a point you feel its a lot of money

    now you might be thinking  who needs 10 subs 

     

    well the moment you get a kid and a wife suddenly  your looking at  3 subs per game

    now i don't want to open that hornets nest  so i don't join in  there have been many mmo's i would have loved to have played but i simply couldn't because of the sub  

     

    remember all you are going to face the wife and kid problem at some point and im telling you  that having multiple subscriptions for multiple games is a lot of money it soon adds up to a big chunk

     

    im all for having  two payment  models  and you just play on different  servers one  with a sub  giving you all the  free suff and a server with B2P and a cash shop

    and i have no idea whats wrong with this

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  • mrrshann618mrrshann618 Member UncommonPosts: 279

    Ya know f2p is kinda like that free cake in the breakroom.

    Everyone takes a slice but hardly anyone gives money to the person who purchased/made that cake

    Whale = person who made/purchased it

    freeloaders = people eating it.

     

    All you who bitch about f2p I never want to see you eating that free cake. I mean hell, you have a job go buy your own, if you cannot afford a slice, get a better job. I mean 1/20th of a 10$ cake is only $.50 and it is only a single time investment for some tasty cake.

    Play what you Like. I like SWOTR, Have a referral to get you going!
    -->  http://www.swtor.com/r/nBndbs  <--
    Several Unlocks and a few days game time to make the F2P considerably easier
  • jdizzle2k13jdizzle2k13 Member UncommonPosts: 251

    I like B2P.  It just makes the most sense to me.

    You pay one price to get full access to the game.  There is a completely optional cash shop with mostly cosmetic items or xp/magic find/whatever kind of temporary boosts, and put any expansion content for the game in there too.  That's the model I would be willing to pay for.

    I mean it works for a lot of console games (and yeah I could probably see myself getting attacked for comparing MMOs to console games).

    With that being said, I'm not against sub games or totally free games.  If you don't want to pay $15 a month for a sub, then don't.  If you don't like being grouped with the lowest common denominator (which incidentally shows up in sub games too) or being mad that some guy paid thousands of his own money to be the "best" player in the game, don't play the free games.

    I'm currently playing a sub game and a B2P game and they both have their merits and flaws.  Funny thing is, the B2P game actually updates more often than the sub game.  They may be minor updates, but the big updates do come, and those are the ones that to me are worth coming back for.

    image

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Gadareth

    Guess what this means in reality it means that as a working stiff who can only pay 5 - 10 hours a week I am ultimately paying so that the 25-30 hour a week people with no jobs can play for free on my dime !!

    This is the reason I hate the F2P model.

     

    Well, if you choose to be a whale, there is no one else to blame but yourself.

    If you hate to pay for others' gaming, why don't you just play for free, and be on the other side?

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by jdizzle2k13

    I'm currently playing a sub game and a B2P game and they both have their merits and flaws.  Funny thing is, the B2P game actually updates more often than the sub game.  They may be minor updates, but the big updates do come, and those are the ones that to me are worth coming back for.

    Yes .. because people don't have to stick to a free game, and so the game has to keep fresh to attract players.

     

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Originally posted by Siug
    Honestly, I cannot understand why devs even make new MMOs these days because there are much better investment opportunities. I cannot name any other business with customers whining, trolling and complaining no matter what you offer to them.

    Because there are whales to make money off?

  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,952
    Originally posted by tixylix

     

    My problem with subscriptions is that it charges you the same rate as everyone else no matter how much you play.

     

    Given that the amount is so small, I feel that this is a glass half empty statement.

    One could just as easily say "With Subscriptions you get charged the same rate no matter how much you play!!! image

     

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  • AlBQuirkyAlBQuirky Member EpicPosts: 7,432


    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    If someone has more time to spend then the playing field isn't level. The time spent in an mmo doesn't work like real life. If you workout 80 hours a week in a gym you're not going to get more buff than someone working out on a more reasonable schedule. In fact you'll hurt yourself and actually lose progress.

    That isn't how it works in an mmmo. The more time spent is always beneficial. Paying the $15 gives everyone equal access, but it doesn't create a level playing field. That sort of system promotes time currency. It also pretends to ignore the sale of rmt gold currency to provide an advantage. P2P systems are inherently more susceptible to exploiting time (esp via account sharing) and gold sales.

    I've never said having more time to invest is unfair, nor do I think those with disposable income to burn is unfair. Don't fool yourself, people with more time and money own those without either.

    I don't like mandatory subs, but I don't really care if games use that model either because there are plenty of sub-free games to play. I just take issue with the ridiculous premise that p2p games have better development or communities. They don't. F2P games use some tactics to push people to buy things in their store. P2P games use some time sink tactics to keep players paying longer. Both need content or the player leaves.


    Time is not the same as money. One has a choice. One does not.

    Most people have little choice (keyword here) in how much they make. I'm sorry, but the person without the smarts to become a Doctor or Lawyer does not get those choices for careers. A person who is not athlete material does not get the career choice of Professional Athlete.

    Everyone gets 24 hours a day (as far as I know). How we spend that time is made of choices.
    - You may choose to work 80 hours a week to make more money.
    - You may choose to get married.
    - You may choose to have children.
    - You may choose to go to a gym.
    - You may choose to watch movies.
    - You may choose to play video games.
    See? Choices.

    This is the difference many do not see between time and money. Time is finite (24 hours/day) and involves choices. Money is not finite (0-Billions of dollar made yearly), and rarely involves choices.

    - Al

    Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.
    - FARGIN_WAR


  • RoguewizRoguewiz Member UncommonPosts: 711

    It is all a matter of what people are willing to pay for without having too much justification on if it is worth it.  As mentioned, people pay subscriptions for things such as Internet, Cable, and Cell Phone.  They don't use them daily, but since it is a monthly fee, they pay it regardless of if they use it daily or not at all.

    To me, it doesn't matter if it is a subscription based game or free to play.  If I have the desire to play, I'll play.  If I don't want to play, I'll find something else to do.  I don't need to justify my playing time because I'm paying a subscription.

    Besides, it is only $15.  People spend more on buying liver destroying beverages and lung blackening death sticks.

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  • fivorothfivoroth Member UncommonPosts: 3,916

    Why do people assume that if you don't want to pay a sub for a game, you automatically want F2P?

    I would rather have a game which you pay for the box and then pay for DLC/content patches or whatever. But you know what will happen then? People will actually see how much "value" they are getting from their MMOs. For example, pick a P2P MMO and see how many content patches did they have in the last year. You pay $15 x 12 = $180 per year. So say if an MMO released 4 major content patches during the year and each of them was sold as a DLC, then you have effectively paid $45 PER content patch.

    Lets take out $15 per DLC for server maintenace or whatever, and you are still paying $30 for a DLC sized content patch.

    Is that good value for money? You are basically paying a sub for grinding the SAME content over and over again. And also a lot of MMOs don't even have 4 content patches per year.

    F2P games are vile. I don't see how they are any different then your typical freemium iPhone/Android games.

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  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 32,952
    Originally posted by Quizzical

    If $15/month is too expensive for you even for a game that you like, then it's not likely that you'd pay much in a "free to play" game, either, so why should publishers care about your opinion?

    The economic argument for "free to play" isn't that you'll get people to play for free who wouldn't pay a subscription.  It's that you'll get a handful of people to pay vastly more than $15/month--and those people necessarily aren't the sort who would complain that $15/month is too expensive.

    Pretty much "this"

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    Try the "Special Edition." 'Cause it's "Special." https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrimspecialedition/mods/64878/?tab=description

    Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo 
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