There is no such thing as sandbox or themepark features. Features are just components, you use to build either a themepark or sandbox.
And those components are sandbox features. As I said in another reply. Endgame of AA is all about the sandbox, with it's open world PVP etc. What leads up to it is more of a themepark. But I can do with the themepark as long as the endgame is sandbox. But not having item decay is a bad choice for the games economy in the long run.
it is used as a buffer to keep people to a respectable pace in the game. This way those that have no commitments and can play 12 hours a day will not have a clear advantage over someone that can only play a few hours a day. You might even go so far as to say that ArcheAge is trying to put a healthy cap on gaming hours spent so that marathon gamers don't die due to forgetting to eat and drink something while playing for a marathon 3 day period.
I addressed this very thing that i don't believe this artificial cap is still an effective use of limiting and pacing gamers. Better to remove items from circulation instead of hamstringing people who want to craft at whatever pace they feel like. If i want to sit there and hack a damn tree for 12 hours i should be able to do whatever i please. Besides this artificial cap isn't going to successfully stop the flood of item thats will inevitably hit the market.
Sorry to disappoint you, but labor point system combined with random craft system of high lvl gear, does a great job with market. Even on most RU servers economy is quite healthy and market not flooded(though all the servers were heavily hit with dupes and other hacks).
Also hasnt been out long. Takes time to flood a market, as it takes time to level crafting in AA. But once its flooded, its the end of player driven economy. Has happened in many games themepark and sandbox. Going by previous games and experience of course, bu dont see how it would be different here.
To lvl crafting in AA doesnt take long. To craft one legendary item does. In more then a month me playing AA RU i managed to craft 2 legendaries (you need 7 for the set bonuses). And also legendary is not the highest lvl of gear.
For those looking for a sandbox experience, you'll be disappointed by AA, because it ain't that. There's a lot of fluff items that allow players customization in a vanity sense but have no impact on the virtual world as a whole. I will play AA for the virtual world itself - even of my toon has no direct impact on it. Its a pretty vast an expansive mass of land which is fun to transverse if you leave the linear guest path and go explore.
This certainly broke the game for me, I might play it in the future for fun when I'm bored, but I'm not dropping the cash knowing the state of the crafting system. A rng crafting system is Just a lottery with mats as tickets. There is no thought or skill involved. Not to mention no item Degradation so in time the markets will be saturated with good gear, there will always be a demand for the items but in time the system would slow down as demand decreases.
A skill based system would have been much appreciated whether it's harvesting based, getting the right ingredients with ingredient quality like SWG, or having resource have attributes like Mortal online, or hell even Wushu was better with those stupid mini games because at least depending on how good you are in the mini game determined how well you crafted.
I am so sad, I looked forward to the game, I got to easily over-hyped.
Your psychic abilities amaze me. Without even playing 1 minute of it, you have listened to OPINIONS and made up your mind.
Crap... This sounds alot like Age of Wushu where you also were limited to the amount of crafting/gathering you could do each day. Dunno why they have stupid shit like that. If some1 wanna be a dedicated crafter in a sandbox, they need to be able to be that, and not have some silly labor points hindering them. Item decay is they way to go 7 days a week. Now I'm not sosure I will get it anymore.
As a newbie I sold my labour to a vet last night, because he needed iron smelted and trees felled.
This is why labour points are a great system. They give everyone something to sell that has value to even the richest, and they make interaction between the high and low levels needed.
Your labour points are a cap on what *you* can personally do, not what you can achieve. it's a great system if you stop thinking traditionally
Not even close, its just blanket stats for the resources and the result of an item created is RNG. There is some depth to the crafting though but the resource gathering is just done by harvesting simple nodes that respawn. They have this system that uses a predtermined cap of points called Labor Points. At max level you have 5k labor points and once its used up you have to wait until they regen to do any crafting,gathering. Labor Points and no item decay is the number one reason why i quit AA already on the alpha. I can't stand it.
As for housing, there are no player vendors and there is an Auction house. Every "sandbox" feature this game has UO,SWG,EVE just do it better.
WAIT! WHAT?
RNG'd stats in crafting? Really?
If there is one thing I despise in MMO crafting is the inability to have any control over what you make. I mean really? I want to get a physical DPS stats on an item and I get caster stats instead so I have to re make the item 10 times to get the one I want?
Originally posted by GeezerGamer WAIT! WHAT?RNG'd stats in crafting? Really? If there is one thing I despise in MMO crafting is the inability to have any control over what you make. I mean really? I want to get a physical DPS stats on an item and I get caster stats instead so I have to re make the item 10 times to get the one I want?.................................................... :|PASS!
They are not. You just throw out terms without understanding what they mean.
Features do not determine the design.
But in AA those features ARE "sandboxed". Especially in endgame. How aren't they sandbox features then? How isn't the ability to build a house, building a castle with your clan (both not instanced btw), having farms, breeding animals etc not sandboxx features? What themepark game out there has all that?
Originally posted by Lahuzer How aren't they sandbox features then?
Because features do not determine a design, already told you that, but your problem is that you make no difference between design and feature.
You might be able to build a house or boat in 2 games and one will be a sandbox but the other won't because features do not determine the design, there are no sandbox or themepark features.
What matters is the implementation, how building a house affects other features, players, environment, etc = design of the game.
Having levels and power gear pretty much disqualifies the game for being considered a sandbox as all the crafting and "twists" made to the game are just bound to vertical, non-sandbox design of the game.
Because features do not determine a design, already told you that, but your problem is that you make no difference between design and feature.
You might be able to build a house or boat in 2 games and one will be a sandbox but the other won't because features do not determine the design, there are no sandbox or themepark features.
What matters is the implementation, how building a house affects other features, players, environment, etc = design of the game.
Having levels and power gear pretty much disqualifies the game for being considered a sandbox as all the crafting and "twists" made to the game are just bound to vertical, non-sandbox design of the game.
You can if you wanna, level all the way to the top level through crafting. The freedom of choice is a sandbox feature. I dont think levels disqulifies the game for being a sandbox game. But having the freedom to build your character in 150 different ways is a sandbox feature. And the game has alot of sandbox features (according to me and many others) and also alot of themepark features, especially on the PVE islands. While the open world with it's PVP etc is more sandboxy. And the way that they've implemented houses and castles etc in AA is very much a sandbox feature, cause it's all done in it's open world. No instanced ala Wildstar or SWTOR etc. Thats what makes it more of a sandbox then a themepark in my book.
But not having items decay, is a bad choice in my book, and I don't think it will do the game or it's economy, any good. Sandbox feature or not.
This certainly broke the game for me, I might play it in the future for fun when I'm bored, but I'm not dropping the cash knowing the state of the crafting system. A rng crafting system is Just a lottery with mats as tickets. There is no thought or skill involved. Not to mention no item Degradation so in time the markets will be saturated with good gear, there will always be a demand for the items but in time the system would slow down as demand decreases.
A skill based system would have been much appreciated whether it's harvesting based, getting the right ingredients with ingredient quality like SWG, or having resource have attributes like Mortal online, or hell even Wushu was better with those stupid mini games because at least depending on how good you are in the mini game determined how well you crafted.
I am so sad, I looked forward to the game, I got to easily over-hyped.
Your psychic abilities amaze me. Without even playing 1 minute of it, you have listened to OPINIONS and made up your mind.
I've spent the last 2 days reading about the game. I never said the game was bad and that others wont like it, it was all my opinion, never stated it was fact. I simply read multiple times that there isn't a skill based factor and that it uses a rng to determine item quality. That killed dropping 150$ on it. I mean when it's Free to play I will join in, but I'm not paying 150$ for a rng crafting system on top of no item degradation.
By all means if you can get more info on it please, I'm bored atm and wouldnt mind some more info.
Originally posted by Lahuzer No item decay? For real? In a sandbox? Trion better fix that one...
People need to get it through their skulls that aa is not a sandbox game and Jake has never claimed it is. Some sandbox features but also theamepaek features hense the term sandpark-hybrid.
Some people need to get it through their skull's that item decay was also in older themeparks and isnt a sandbox only concept lol.
Yup item decay has been in many mmo's sandbox&themepark, i actually agree with the item decay. I should of made it clear i wasn't actually referring to the item decay and more to the AA being a sandbox.
Sandpark or Hybrid it's doesn't really matter what i or anyone else calls a mmo with both types of systems.
My point is the game should not be label as one or other but as a mixture of both.
If there is one thing I despise in MMO crafting is the inability to have any control over what you make. I mean really? I want to get a physical DPS stats on an item and I get caster stats instead so I have to re make the item 10 times to get the one I want?
There is no item decay, but items beak every time you die. More expensive it is, more gold cost t o repair it.
Further you travel from the place where you created your trade pack, more expensive it get. But price do drop more of the same item are sold in the area.
Delphi coins are personal item and you cant trade them, but you can trade the goods(so one person can claim delphi coins).
I see Labor points as a good thing, this system puts casual gamer on same level with "no-life" gamer.
really? would you feel the same if you have Fight Points and they would allow you fight for less then 2 hrs a day?
Originally posted by Lahuzer You can if you wanna, level all the way to the top level through crafting. The freedom of choice is a sandbox feature. I dont think levels disqulifies the game for being a sandbox game. But having the freedom to build your character in 150 different ways is a sandbox feature. And the game has alot of sandbox features (according to me and many others) and also alot of themepark features, especially on the PVE islands. While the open world with it's PVP etc is more sandboxy. And the way that they've implemented houses and castles etc in AA is very much a sandbox feature, cause it's all done in it's open world. No instanced ala Wildstar or SWTOR etc. Thats what makes it more of a sandbox then a themepark in my book.But not having items decay, is a bad choice in my book, and I don't think it will do the game or it's economy, any good. Sandbox feature or not.
Since you keep mistaking feature for design and interchange the terms them as they fit you, there is no room for any constructive dialogue...
You can if you wanna, level all the way to the top level through crafting. The freedom of choice is a sandbox feature. I dont think levels disqulifies the game for being a sandbox game. But having the freedom to build your character in 150 different ways is a sandbox feature. And the game has alot of sandbox features (according to me and many others) and also alot of themepark features, especially on the PVE islands. While the open world with it's PVP etc is more sandboxy. And the way that they've implemented houses and castles etc in AA is very much a sandbox feature, cause it's all done in it's open world. No instanced ala Wildstar or SWTOR etc. Thats what makes it more of a sandbox then a themepark in my book.
But not having items decay, is a bad choice in my book, and I don't think it will do the game or it's economy, any good. Sandbox feature or not.
Since you keep mistaking feature for design and interchange the terms them as they fit you, there is no room for any constructive dialogue...
Originally posted by Kasuke27mini game determined how well you crafted.
I've spent the last 2 days reading about the game. I never said the game was bad and that others wont like it, it was all my opinion, never stated it was fact. I simply read multiple times that there isn't a skill based factor and that it uses a rng to determine item quality. That killed dropping 150$ on it. I mean when it's Free to play I will join in, but I'm not paying 150$ for a rng crafting system on top of no item degradation.
By all means if you can get more info on it please, I'm bored atm and wouldnt mind some more info.
Please search youtube for Crafting videos on AA and Trion's own crafting videos made this month. Hope that helps you a bit more.
That is not a matter of disagreement, that is what those terms mean.
You're entitled to your own dictionary, but don't expect other people to use it.
The fact is that the term "sandbox feature" is a very useful and descriptive, while the term "sandbox game" is vague and leads to flame wars. For instance Some people claim EQ was a sandbox game, others claim this is ridiculous.
I hope you can manage to contribute more to this discussion than "you can't disagree with me because I am right".
ArcheAge's crafting is WoW crafting with RNG procs.
You gather the mats, click, and no fail combine. You cant influence the outcome in any way.
The game has a lot of options to craft, but the actual process of crafting an item is standard and boring.
It is about as far from SWG as you can get.
If you like to make money by crafting but dont care about the process AA will be fantastic. If SWG and VG drew you in with the depth and control of their craft systems ArcheAge's crafting will be a total disappointment.
Comments
And those components are sandbox features. As I said in another reply. Endgame of AA is all about the sandbox, with it's open world PVP etc. What leads up to it is more of a themepark. But I can do with the themepark as long as the endgame is sandbox. But not having item decay is a bad choice for the games economy in the long run.
To lvl crafting in AA doesnt take long. To craft one legendary item does. In more then a month me playing AA RU i managed to craft 2 legendaries (you need 7 for the set bonuses). And also legendary is not the highest lvl of gear.
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I will play AA for the virtual world itself - even of my toon has no direct impact on it. Its a pretty vast an expansive mass of land which is fun to transverse if you leave the linear guest path and go explore.
They are not. You just throw out terms without understanding what they mean.
Features do not determine the design.
Your psychic abilities amaze me. Without even playing 1 minute of it, you have listened to OPINIONS and made up your mind.
Dont anyone derail this "what is a sandbox argument" please!
:-)
Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master.
George Washington
As a newbie I sold my labour to a vet last night, because he needed iron smelted and trees felled.
This is why labour points are a great system. They give everyone something to sell that has value to even the richest, and they make interaction between the high and low levels needed.
Your labour points are a cap on what *you* can personally do, not what you can achieve. it's a great system if you stop thinking traditionally
WAIT! WHAT?
RNG'd stats in crafting? Really?
If there is one thing I despise in MMO crafting is the inability to have any control over what you make. I mean really? I want to get a physical DPS stats on an item and I get caster stats instead so I have to re make the item 10 times to get the one I want?
....................................................
PASS!
Well...it's a typical asian game
But in AA those features ARE "sandboxed". Especially in endgame. How aren't they sandbox features then? How isn't the ability to build a house, building a castle with your clan (both not instanced btw), having farms, breeding animals etc not sandboxx features? What themepark game out there has all that?
Because features do not determine a design, already told you that, but your problem is that you make no difference between design and feature.
You might be able to build a house or boat in 2 games and one will be a sandbox but the other won't because features do not determine the design, there are no sandbox or themepark features.
What matters is the implementation, how building a house affects other features, players, environment, etc = design of the game.
Having levels and power gear pretty much disqualifies the game for being considered a sandbox as all the crafting and "twists" made to the game are just bound to vertical, non-sandbox design of the game.
You can if you wanna, level all the way to the top level through crafting. The freedom of choice is a sandbox feature. I dont think levels disqulifies the game for being a sandbox game. But having the freedom to build your character in 150 different ways is a sandbox feature. And the game has alot of sandbox features (according to me and many others) and also alot of themepark features, especially on the PVE islands. While the open world with it's PVP etc is more sandboxy. And the way that they've implemented houses and castles etc in AA is very much a sandbox feature, cause it's all done in it's open world. No instanced ala Wildstar or SWTOR etc. Thats what makes it more of a sandbox then a themepark in my book.
But not having items decay, is a bad choice in my book, and I don't think it will do the game or it's economy, any good. Sandbox feature or not.
I've spent the last 2 days reading about the game. I never said the game was bad and that others wont like it, it was all my opinion, never stated it was fact. I simply read multiple times that there isn't a skill based factor and that it uses a rng to determine item quality. That killed dropping 150$ on it. I mean when it's Free to play I will join in, but I'm not paying 150$ for a rng crafting system on top of no item degradation.
By all means if you can get more info on it please, I'm bored atm and wouldnt mind some more info.
Yup item decay has been in many mmo's sandbox&themepark, i actually agree with the item decay. I should of made it clear i wasn't actually referring to the item decay and more to the AA being a sandbox.
Sandpark or Hybrid it's doesn't really matter what i or anyone else calls a mmo with both types of systems.
My point is the game should not be label as one or other but as a mixture of both.
Yep. NEXT!
really? would you feel the same if you have Fight Points and they would allow you fight for less then 2 hrs a day?
Since you keep mistaking feature for design and interchange the terms them as they fit you, there is no room for any constructive dialogue...
Well, I see them as sandbox DESIGNS then. Happy?
I completely disagree with your terminology.
Mainly because everyone agrees on whether a feature is sndboxy or not, but no one agrees on precisely which games are "sandbox"
Everyone agrees, for instance, that terraforming is a sandbox feature, yet Eve, SWG, and UO don't have it and are vaguely referred to as "sandboxes".
Open world PVP is a sandbox feature, yet Landmark doesn't have it. And even Wurm Online only has it on a minority of servers.
Non-instanced housing and farming are sandbox features yet many sandboxy games don't have them, etc.
A sandbox feature is a feature that exmpowers players to affect the shared gaming experience.
Games are sandbox-y to the extent that they implement sandbox features.
Please search youtube for Crafting videos on AA and Trion's own crafting videos made this month. Hope that helps you a bit more.
That is not a matter of disagreement, that is what those terms mean.
You're entitled to your own dictionary, but don't expect other people to use it.
The fact is that the term "sandbox feature" is a very useful and descriptive, while the term "sandbox game" is vague and leads to flame wars. For instance Some people claim EQ was a sandbox game, others claim this is ridiculous.
I hope you can manage to contribute more to this discussion than "you can't disagree with me because I am right".
ArcheAge's crafting is WoW crafting with RNG procs.
You gather the mats, click, and no fail combine. You cant influence the outcome in any way.
The game has a lot of options to craft, but the actual process of crafting an item is standard and boring.
It is about as far from SWG as you can get.
If you like to make money by crafting but dont care about the process AA will be fantastic. If SWG and VG drew you in with the depth and control of their craft systems ArcheAge's crafting will be a total disappointment.