Good article. But although I do agree that part of the hate for ESO is based on the lesser amounts of spoon feeding than what some seem to demand, there has always been some extra hate for this game that is well beyond the norm. This has been the case from the moment the title and a sketch of the features was announced.
I guess all pre-existing IPs run the risk of having an established fan base with highly opinionated views of how any future game based on the IP should be developed. But even taking the dissaproval of those in the community who just know how it should have been done, there is even more hate than what you'd expect to see..
IDK why this is. The only thing I can think of is that the ES franchise has been unique in allowing its fan base almost unlimited customization of their various single player games. The communities that formed around the mods is not your typical gaming community. For one thing, there's their widespread belief that they can do a better job than Bethesda and improve any and all things in any ES game. that is the underlying tone in any of the ES SP game modding forums.
I think these developers were up against it no matter what they did: they had a much larger than usual crowd of small-time mod developers looking over their shoulder every step of the way.
I agree with you: the game is very well done in many ways and very enjoyable. The amount of hate even the smallest of their missteps generates is disproportionate to the quality of the product.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I do not know about you all, but I think I am seeing just the right amount of hate for this game. Typically I am seeing $45-60 worth of hate. There are some exceptional individuals that are showing $80-95 worth of hate, but that is higher than the norm.
It is funny to see how quickly people forget the years of poor results from P2P launches, where people have put up good money, only to be dissapointed. This is just more of the same, and in fact is much tamer than what we saw in 2010/2011.
F2P became highly desirable, because people got tired of getting burned. Games that use the same methods today, get the same backlash, and re-enforce the consumer desire to try the product BEFORE they pay.
If companies are set on P2P, how about they try this. Make the game P2P upfront, but with the caveat that if you cancel before the 30 days are up, you get a full refund. That would undercut the customer backlash for a product that they do not feel was worth the money spent.
Think about it honestly. If the customer is not happy with a product, after they have paid for it in full, and this causes internet hate and bad reviews... is there really a problem here?
While there have been some complains about lack of auction house most complain here are either about the game being buggy and the phasing system.
I don't think people who try a new game for a few days miss features from Wow, at least not once they get into the game after playing it a little, I think the main problem is that the game is so far from the Elder scrolls game that it turns away many of the fans from those games. If it had an original IP then many of the complaining people would have little to complain on.
When you make a game connected to older games in lore fans expect it to be rather similar, in this case an online version of Skyrim or the other games from the series.
Making a review too fast on a MMO is of course always a mistake, you miss a lot of both the good and the not so good that way and can't really make a fair review for people who are hoping to play the game for years.
Ryan however assumes that people compare the game with Wow and I don't think that is so common anymore.
And of course there is always the trolls and the bungee players who play any game for 2 weeks and spend 6 months complaining about it afterwards, if you take them away as well as (rightfully) upset TES fans the problems really is an overuse of phasing and the fact that the game should have been polished up for 2-3 more months before release.
That some reviewers like it and some don't really isn't strange, the same could be said of most games.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle For me it was not hate, I really enjoyed the game. I didnt like the direction a few things went. To much phasing made teaming a pain. I play with my wife and about 25% of the time she was this little arrow I could follow but not help in any way. Then instanced parts of the game you could not work together on because ZM wanted you to feel epic by doing it solo. Not really why I play and took me out of the fun by having to ask my wife again and again, can you see me? Do you see this node? Guess thats phased just for me =- If I wanted to play a solo game I would have played Morrowind again. If they change this... I just may buy the game. Im a huge TES fan its just that I dont play MMOs to solo.
This!! ^
ESO is a SP game, only time you have the feeling of an MMO is in public dungeons together with The Bot Brothers.
"I once was an adventurer like you, but then I got an Arrow above my head!"
Are you guys not aware of the travel to player feature that's been in since launch (or earlier?) I play with the wife as well and if we are ever in a different instance we just pop the party window open, right click, travel to player...done! Is it that hard to learn? Literally takes 10 seconds.
I don't agree that people are upset with ESO because it doesn't have an auction house and doesn't hold hands. I think the game is another tired quest grinder. I've played no risk quest grinders for 10 years, I think some of us should be allowed to be tired of the same thing again and again. Very little freedom, no other options to level up other than do chores for NPC's. No chance that I can even fail. Can't ruin my faction and be forced to live as an outlaw in the sewers or on the open sea.
I like the mouselook controls and the more realistic graphics but the zones look washed out and the game is just really boring overall. Granted I'm still playing DFUW and other than the controls and realistic gfx the two games couldn't be more different. Likely that I'm just completely done with themeparks and not so much that ESO is horrible. It's just irritating they decided to go the same direction as all the rest.
Or maybe, just maybe, this is actully just a bad mmo! And alot of people dont enjoy being changed premium service for a bad game, oh and, TEO is a beloved franchise, and people get sad when they see TES being dragged through the mud. Just check the rage d3 got when it delivered a product that the d2 fans wasnt to happy about.
Its annoying to see you take a stance towards the critical crowd calling them "haters". They are not haters, they are unsatisfied customers, and your dragin the debate down to a low level when you actully decidede to call people "haters".
I know your not a educated journalist, by atleast try to act like one
As the consumer, I will give negative feedback when its due, I will give negative feedback when I'm paying $60 for a game with a monthly subscription the very moment I don't see something I like.
I was heavily involved in the beta, playing through several rounds and it was so apparent to me that they didn't know which direction to take. Despite the many cries from people to make a multiplayer version of an ES game, they made a ES-skinned DAOC.
Furthermore, your assertion that comparisons to previous games should be stopped is so far removed from reality. That's what people, that's how we relate to things. And you know what, people are going to compare it WoW or EQ because those are the staples of the genre. Those are the ones that did things right, so right in fact they became Zeitgeists. A game doesn't have to mimic the exact look and feel of WoW or Everquest. Guild Wars is a great example of this, and both games in the series are highly rated and well received.
Zenimax can't get enough hatred for fucking with Elder Scrolls. They can't get enough hatred for squashing the dreams that many players had for over a decade. I'm not excusing their poor design decisions nor lamenting the fact that the media is lambasting them. Good for them. Maybe next time, they'll listen instead of stubbornly following their own designs despite people outright begging them not to.
I have a problem of only playing betas for a hour or so because I do not want to spoil the launch experience. Bad mistake in this game.
If I'm a hater for being disappointed in this game, so be it. Solo questing has always been my least favorite thing in MMOs, which is 90%+ of this game. I like the PVP in ESO, but I am not going to power through 60 levels of boring solo quests to become competitive. Allowing players to go to Cryodill at level 10, then giving them basically no experience from PVP is a bad joke.
Also not a fan of having chests in dungeons, the first person to them get them. If you are going to put gear in chests, make sure there is a dice roll or something so people who stop the fight to grab something before anyone else don't get most of the gear (yes it happened to me). Not everyone has a group a friends to play with, some of us are PUG or nothing players.
Here's a great scenario. I don't know what you do, but let's say I'm your boss. I come in this morning and I say that I'm going to cut your salary by a third. Oh, and then I'm not going to be giving you a raise for the next 20 years either. What are you going to do? I know what I'd do, I'd scrawl my resignation on the nearest post-it and GTFO. That's what I'm saying. Game prices aren't inflating to meet the market price of talent.
Sure, you could outsource to China and probably get the same job done for a quarter of the price, but the moment someone like ZOS mentions such a thing, the bleeding-heart patriots are out in full-force talking about how they're going to boycott ZOS because they're taking away American jobs! Look at both ESO and SWTOR. Both were developed in North America.
Don't get me wrong, I don't want game prices to increase, but cutting cinematics isn't the silver bullet that's going to save all the problems in the game industry, either. Every one of us should be thankful that we only pay $60 for a game.
I'm not saying cutting cinematics is any kind of silver bullet - but it's an outright waste and while they are very pleasing to watch, they are extremely misleading. I wonder how many people were duped into buying a game because the cinematic was awesome - only to be completely disappointed when the game didn't look that good or the characters portrayed in the cinematic turned out to be multiple classes smushed together that do things that not one single class in game can do?
Altogether, there was about (if not more) 15 minutes of cinematic trailers for SWTOR, leading up to the game. That stuff is expensive to make. I know ESO had quite a bit of cinematics too - yet again, very expensive to make. How much of the budget was used to make those things.
Even at 15 minutes of cinematics, that's a quarter of an hour of movie quality cinematics. The average sitcom is 22 minutes long on primetime as a point of reference. Maybe video game companies should stop trying to produce mini-movies to advertise their game and focus on making.. an actual game instead?
Originally posted by Nanfoodle For me it was not hate, I really enjoyed the game. I didnt like the direction a few things went. To much phasing made teaming a pain. I play with my wife and about 25% of the time she was this little arrow I could follow but not help in any way. Then instanced parts of the game you could not work together on because ZM wanted you to feel epic by doing it solo. Not really why I play and took me out of the fun by having to ask my wife again and again, can you see me? Do you see this node? Guess thats phased just for me =- If I wanted to play a solo game I would have played Morrowind again. If they change this... I just may buy the game. Im a huge TES fan its just that I dont play MMOs to solo.
This!! ^
ESO is a SP game, only time you have the feeling of an MMO is in public dungeons together with The Bot Brothers.
"I once was an adventurer like you, but then I got an Arrow above my head!"
Are you guys not aware of the travel to player feature that's been in since launch (or earlier?) I play with the wife as well and if we are ever in a different instance we just pop the party window open, right click, travel to player...done! Is it that hard to learn? Literally takes 10 seconds.
Fix spelling
Not talking about being in a different shard. If you dont know what phasing is pls google it.
"Yeah we know the game suffers from in game issues that aren't being promptly resolved... but HEY at least you can log-in. I mean it didn't blow up your PC or anything did it? Remember how bad it was 10 years ago when the tech was A LOT worse and developers knew much less? So what it's 2014, stop hating you haters. (Make check payable to Cyber Creations Inc pls)" -MM( )RPG
"As far as the forum code of conduct, I would think it's a bit outdated and in need of a refre *CLOSED*"
Seriously.. cmon man .. you do realize that people dont actually hate a "Game" right .. The problem is tho that with every game if anyone post anything that they dont like about said game , the fanbois come out and label you a hater right away , for saying anything bad about there internet girlfriend , well get over it , your gf is a bit screwed up and its ok you can love her , but some people arent gonna see her the way you do ...
They have A list actors doing voice overs and someone thinks devs get the shaft on game price. Gtfo!
You ever hear the saying neither a borrower nor a lender be?
You ever hear the saying neither a borrower nor a lender be?
You ever hear the saying neither a borrower nor a lender be?
You ever hear the saying neither a borrower nor a lender be?
You ever hear the saying neither a borrower nor a lender be?
Never heard the "saying", I am, however, familiar with hamlet.
I'm also aware that that borrowing from a friend has nothing to do with developers paying A list actors to do voice overs, and a person arguing that we don't pay enough for our games.
ESO is a great game for me, and I'm so happy it's doing it's own thing.If it ever makes all those people happy who don't like it now, I'm out, because it will be ruined. Fix the bugs, leave the core concepts alone and keep doing your own thing with ESO!
I don't really see the point of this piece to be honest.
I'm not one to visit every single ESO thread and say that I dislike the game, that's pointless. Let people who enjoy it enjoy it. But this kind of column is also fairly silly in my opinion, it's pure flamebait.
Mmorpg.com have to try and big up the game.
Have to make nice with the paid advertisers.
They buy ad space here so their products get hyped.
Comments
Good article. But although I do agree that part of the hate for ESO is based on the lesser amounts of spoon feeding than what some seem to demand, there has always been some extra hate for this game that is well beyond the norm. This has been the case from the moment the title and a sketch of the features was announced.
I guess all pre-existing IPs run the risk of having an established fan base with highly opinionated views of how any future game based on the IP should be developed. But even taking the dissaproval of those in the community who just know how it should have been done, there is even more hate than what you'd expect to see..
IDK why this is. The only thing I can think of is that the ES franchise has been unique in allowing its fan base almost unlimited customization of their various single player games. The communities that formed around the mods is not your typical gaming community. For one thing, there's their widespread belief that they can do a better job than Bethesda and improve any and all things in any ES game. that is the underlying tone in any of the ES SP game modding forums.
I think these developers were up against it no matter what they did: they had a much larger than usual crowd of small-time mod developers looking over their shoulder every step of the way.
I agree with you: the game is very well done in many ways and very enjoyable. The amount of hate even the smallest of their missteps generates is disproportionate to the quality of the product.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I do not know about you all, but I think I am seeing just the right amount of hate for this game. Typically I am seeing $45-60 worth of hate. There are some exceptional individuals that are showing $80-95 worth of hate, but that is higher than the norm.
It is funny to see how quickly people forget the years of poor results from P2P launches, where people have put up good money, only to be dissapointed. This is just more of the same, and in fact is much tamer than what we saw in 2010/2011.
F2P became highly desirable, because people got tired of getting burned. Games that use the same methods today, get the same backlash, and re-enforce the consumer desire to try the product BEFORE they pay.
If companies are set on P2P, how about they try this. Make the game P2P upfront, but with the caveat that if you cancel before the 30 days are up, you get a full refund. That would undercut the customer backlash for a product that they do not feel was worth the money spent.
Think about it honestly. If the customer is not happy with a product, after they have paid for it in full, and this causes internet hate and bad reviews... is there really a problem here?
While there have been some complains about lack of auction house most complain here are either about the game being buggy and the phasing system.
I don't think people who try a new game for a few days miss features from Wow, at least not once they get into the game after playing it a little, I think the main problem is that the game is so far from the Elder scrolls game that it turns away many of the fans from those games. If it had an original IP then many of the complaining people would have little to complain on.
When you make a game connected to older games in lore fans expect it to be rather similar, in this case an online version of Skyrim or the other games from the series.
Making a review too fast on a MMO is of course always a mistake, you miss a lot of both the good and the not so good that way and can't really make a fair review for people who are hoping to play the game for years.
Ryan however assumes that people compare the game with Wow and I don't think that is so common anymore.
And of course there is always the trolls and the bungee players who play any game for 2 weeks and spend 6 months complaining about it afterwards, if you take them away as well as (rightfully) upset TES fans the problems really is an overuse of phasing and the fact that the game should have been polished up for 2-3 more months before release.
That some reviewers like it and some don't really isn't strange, the same could be said of most games.
Are you guys not aware of the travel to player feature that's been in since launch (or earlier?) I play with the wife as well and if we are ever in a different instance we just pop the party window open, right click, travel to player...done! Is it that hard to learn? Literally takes 10 seconds.
I don't agree that people are upset with ESO because it doesn't have an auction house and doesn't hold hands. I think the game is another tired quest grinder. I've played no risk quest grinders for 10 years, I think some of us should be allowed to be tired of the same thing again and again. Very little freedom, no other options to level up other than do chores for NPC's. No chance that I can even fail. Can't ruin my faction and be forced to live as an outlaw in the sewers or on the open sea.
I like the mouselook controls and the more realistic graphics but the zones look washed out and the game is just really boring overall. Granted I'm still playing DFUW and other than the controls and realistic gfx the two games couldn't be more different. Likely that I'm just completely done with themeparks and not so much that ESO is horrible. It's just irritating they decided to go the same direction as all the rest.
They also shouldn't have announced it as "the MMO elder scrolls fans have always wanted".
No ES fan ever said they wanted a linear, quest driven, theme park, with instances and zone specific RvR.
Or maybe, just maybe, this is actully just a bad mmo! And alot of people dont enjoy being changed premium service for a bad game, oh and, TEO is a beloved franchise, and people get sad when they see TES being dragged through the mud. Just check the rage d3 got when it delivered a product that the d2 fans wasnt to happy about.
Its annoying to see you take a stance towards the critical crowd calling them "haters". They are not haters, they are unsatisfied customers, and your dragin the debate down to a low level when you actully decidede to call people "haters".
I know your not a educated journalist, by atleast try to act like one
@Writer
As the consumer, I will give negative feedback when its due, I will give negative feedback when I'm paying $60 for a game with a monthly subscription the very moment I don't see something I like.
I was heavily involved in the beta, playing through several rounds and it was so apparent to me that they didn't know which direction to take. Despite the many cries from people to make a multiplayer version of an ES game, they made a ES-skinned DAOC.
Furthermore, your assertion that comparisons to previous games should be stopped is so far removed from reality. That's what people, that's how we relate to things. And you know what, people are going to compare it WoW or EQ because those are the staples of the genre. Those are the ones that did things right, so right in fact they became Zeitgeists. A game doesn't have to mimic the exact look and feel of WoW or Everquest. Guild Wars is a great example of this, and both games in the series are highly rated and well received.
Zenimax can't get enough hatred for fucking with Elder Scrolls. They can't get enough hatred for squashing the dreams that many players had for over a decade. I'm not excusing their poor design decisions nor lamenting the fact that the media is lambasting them. Good for them. Maybe next time, they'll listen instead of stubbornly following their own designs despite people outright begging them not to.
I have a problem of only playing betas for a hour or so because I do not want to spoil the launch experience. Bad mistake in this game.
If I'm a hater for being disappointed in this game, so be it. Solo questing has always been my least favorite thing in MMOs, which is 90%+ of this game. I like the PVP in ESO, but I am not going to power through 60 levels of boring solo quests to become competitive. Allowing players to go to Cryodill at level 10, then giving them basically no experience from PVP is a bad joke.
Also not a fan of having chests in dungeons, the first person to them get them. If you are going to put gear in chests, make sure there is a dice roll or something so people who stop the fight to grab something before anyone else don't get most of the gear (yes it happened to me). Not everyone has a group a friends to play with, some of us are PUG or nothing players.
I'm not saying cutting cinematics is any kind of silver bullet - but it's an outright waste and while they are very pleasing to watch, they are extremely misleading. I wonder how many people were duped into buying a game because the cinematic was awesome - only to be completely disappointed when the game didn't look that good or the characters portrayed in the cinematic turned out to be multiple classes smushed together that do things that not one single class in game can do?
Altogether, there was about (if not more) 15 minutes of cinematic trailers for SWTOR, leading up to the game. That stuff is expensive to make. I know ESO had quite a bit of cinematics too - yet again, very expensive to make. How much of the budget was used to make those things.
Even at 15 minutes of cinematics, that's a quarter of an hour of movie quality cinematics. The average sitcom is 22 minutes long on primetime as a point of reference. Maybe video game companies should stop trying to produce mini-movies to advertise their game and focus on making.. an actual game instead?
Not talking about being in a different shard. If you dont know what phasing is pls google it.
To comment OP;
It's really not about ESO, it's about people.
They have A list actors doing voice overs and someone thinks devs get the shaft on game price. Gtfo!
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
"ESO is a step in the right direction and for all future MMOs"
Shilling at it's best.
You ever hear the saying neither a borrower nor a lender be?
You ever hear the saying neither a borrower nor a lender be?
You ever hear the saying neither a borrower nor a lender be?
You ever hear the saying neither a borrower nor a lender be?
You ever hear the saying neither a borrower nor a lender be?
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Never heard the "saying", I am, however, familiar with hamlet.
I'm also aware that that borrowing from a friend has nothing to do with developers paying A list actors to do voice overs, and a person arguing that we don't pay enough for our games.
Have to make nice with the paid advertisers.
They buy ad space here so their products get hyped.
Columns like this are part of the package.