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Bait and Switch
/rant
Maybe not by the legal definition but it's bait and switch all the same. It's misrepresentation and saying what they think will suck people in and then ...oops Surprise!!! On all their main page promo stuff it says it's a social building game with pve and pvp elements but mostly building game. Their videos focus mainly on building. Their main promo video on their main page of the official website titled 'What is Landmark" has one sentence in the beginning about danger and then a long arse video about building. Even their own so called blueprint on the forums mentions combat in one small section and the rest is mostly talking about building and social features and building things to sell in their store. Even here on mmorpg in the list it has the icon that says no pvp and on the landmark page it talks about building. All the reviews on a google search talk about building. Etc, etc, blah blah blah.
So people there thinking it's a social building game. Gee I wonder how they could have got that impression. And unfortunatly usually after they've paid money into it, then they get slapped in the face and told it's never meant to be a building game and basically run off the forums by the pvp people and the devs and moderators allow it and so presumably condone it. Bad form. Shame on you SOE and SONY.
Total waste of money. Anybody here who is pve people thinking it's a building social game, don't bother. And above all dont' post on their forums and say that's what you thought from all their promotional material. Very unpleasant experience. If you're an agressive pvp person who loves to chase off pve people, you'll feel right at home. and they'll let you do it.
/endrant
Comments
If they don't make separate shards for each type it will be a mistake on their part. I don't like just building by itself, but I think the people who do should have shards where they don't have mobs, or player griefers, bothering them.
Just to clarify, there are people in the Landmark community who want nothing to do with anything other than building. As the game is developing there are adventuring elements being added that they vehemently do not want as they like the game as it is now.
EQNext is an MMORPG that is not a Social Building game, so if anyone thought EQN was primarily a builder that's not what they are saying it will be. For EQN they are floating things like: should you only be able to build in Player Cities? Whereas in Landmark people are making amazing things of all genres.
So now players are wanting Landmark Creative Mode, Landmark Adventure Mode, and Everquest Next.
Nope sorry, nothing on the Landmark page about PvP. You are thinking EQ: Next.
While they have said they MAY add PvP to landmark at some point, that's not even close to happening and may not be until the end of OPEN beta.
Sure isn't going to happen in the current CLOSED beta, they don't even have combat in yet.
It's all templated of course but you would have to gather again, and that would be enough for me to say fuck it. Forced PvP is an invitation to quit the game. And I say that as someone who plays a lot of PvP.
That's exactly my point! They're promoting as social building but that's not what's really happening. I call that bait and switch. I know what I'm talking about. I highly recommend anyone considering putting their hard earned money into it to thoroughly read the forums and the dev posts. Watch the devs live streams. All those little things that you dont' usually see til AFTER you've given them your money.
So you're saying a game that's still in beta and has plans to add PvE and PvP to the game as it develops is now being accused of not having those features right now and it's misrepresenting the game by talking about things they will be adding.
Maybe they should have the adult promo section for some people and another section with crayons for those who have trouble grasping the whole beta development concept.
Ehh? I have played Landmark since day one of Alpha and so far it is a building game that has a tool progression and a grind to improve your tools as any gear grind in any MMO (but without killing stuff). There is going to be Mobs in game and basic combat that is true, and at one point consensual PVP. But the finished game will hopefully be a sandbox game of exploration, building where you can create your own dungeons if you want, or adventure in dungeons created by others if you want.
I do not really understand what you are complaining about here? Most of the people that wanted PvP is already out of the game many others have left because at the moment there is nothing else to do than build. If you look at the Forums the posts are 90% about building. Or are you one of the Few that wants Landmark to only be a more advanced version of Minecraft.
I am having great fun and I am not a great builder, but Landmark is not for everybody.
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
I would not argue any of that but does it not prove that nobody should be giving them money until there IS a distinct direction in the game?I know what the true purpose was,it was to find a slippery sneaky way to earn money to support the real game "NEXT" .This was just a VERY easy and quick gimmick to throw out there as a potential money grab.Generate the world,buy a license from Voxel Farm and sell it.There really was no thought or direction for Landmark,just a better quality Minecraft and since there is no competition for a better Minecraft,they knew it was an easy market to break into.They figured get this out there and worry about what else they can offer ...ahem SELL you at a later point in time.
I know tons of people have forked over Minecraft licenses for i think is around 20 bucks,so not totally lame selling an identical but better quality product.
SOE tried to movein on the kids game market with taht now defunct game and failed.They tried to move in on the card game market and failed.Now they are trying to move in on the Minecraft/Voxel market and i somehow think they are going to fail again.They won't care because they will move from Landmark directly into marketing Next .What SHOULD have been ONE complete package will be TWO sales for SOE,nice sneaky marketing.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
I took the OPs ranting as there are PvP players on the forums, and despite the game not going in a PvP direction at all, the OP is saying the PvP forum people speak for SoE?
There IS a distinct direction for Landmark. There may be changes along the way (isnt that the entire point of having players in Alpha giving feedback?) but there has been no shift in direction.
The confusion is not SoE's fault. its user error.
Don't feed the trolls. Report them.
Landmark is a building game. I've been playing for a few weeks and well... Outside of hacking trees or whomping dirt to get materials, there's not much else to do except refine your stuff and build your things. It's great fun once you realize that materials are a serious grind right now.
As to the whole "money grab" comment: "So what?" They found a market for a building game that wasn't "minecraft clone #37". And they monetized it. And it worked. And people play it. Quite frankly, if you skim through the site forums, maybe watch a few of the live stream videos, perhaps read some reviews, or maybe even just read the front page of the Landmark site, it's pretty obvious that the developers working on the Landmark platform/tool set are in love with the "game" as a building game.
Personally I think it was a great idea to include the Everquest Next community in the testing and development of the world gen tool set as a game and a very good move on Sony's part.
**sigh** Ok, I can see very few are getting what I'm saying. Yeah I was ranting. Said so myself in the op. What I'm saying is buyer beware and make sure you look into it very closely first to make sure you know exactly what you're getting. Something that too many are not. To those saying But it is a building game. Yup. That's what its' supposed to be, even after the pve and pvp get added. That's what's promoted, that's what's in the game in the very early stages. However, just try saying that on their forums. And if you disagree with those saying it's really intended to be an adventure/danger/pvp game, I hope you like being lambasted and barbequed.
So all I'm saying is do some digging before you invest money. Read the "blueprint' by the devs on the forum and watch their live streams. They're most definitely catering to that crowd and no amount of pleading for clarification to stop the forum madness does any good. The griefing that's going on with people's claims is being completely ignored.
And to the guy who thinks this is a troll thread and should be reported.....thank you very much. If this is not the right place to give what I consider to be a warning to use your own heads, investigate, and make your own decisions based on all of the information and not just what's being promo'd on their main pages, then I guess I really am in the wrong place.
It's hard to argue that their promotional material is out of date. But this a game that started with just a baseline direction, which is to be helped filled out by a player base that wants to participate in it. Consequently there's likely to be a lot of tug-of-war early on; features being added, removed, tweaked, etc. But this is also why SOE is offering refunds. Maybe you should hit them up for one.
Phew ... what a relief
Cuz I'm damn near falling asleep just watching the introduction videos where there's nothing happening but a guy Building stuff. Do you have any idea how many hours I spent using almost the exact same tools in Hammer (Source Builder) with nothing else happening nearby to keep it interesting? *hang on, lemme check steam* .... 2500 hours .... ffffffffff**** you Gabe Newell, you fatty fatty fat fat. Atleast the minecraft jokers got new armor every few days. I should have gotten a new hat for every 250 hours logged in that thing. If I wanted to PvP, I had to close the entire program and run TF2 b/c I couldn't run both at once.
Sounds more to me like the OP got his butt handed to him in an argument and came crying here b/c he doesn't understand what SOE's forums even ARE. (Hint... the devs don't even read them, they only read Reddit and Twitter posts)
I for one would be shocked that SOE would ever mislead people (free for everyone...but $99 to play now!) or create quality games and care about players (you do realize that Sony is a corporation and as such, only cares about money and profit margins, right?)
Premium MMORPGs do not feature built-in cheating via cash for gold pay 2 win. PLAY to win or don't play.
Could you please list some businesses that are not trying to make money? Happy customers are always the #1 way to make money and have your business grow.
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
I laughed heartily.
The only PVP in game currently is watching for someone to not pay their plot upkeep and overwriting their buildings and taking their space. Which was most of minecraft, waiting for someone to build something cool before you TNT'd it. I like it so far, it's pretty clear what the difference between Landmark and Next are.
Maybe you'd be a good person to ask then....
Is there any credibility to this rumor that one of the Stretch goals of the game is for players to basically help create Dungeons and script Quests/Events within them?
Don't get me wrong, I DO like building serene purely aesthetic "scenes" from time to time. But only being limited to the little "plot boxes" I've seen in videos so far doesn't exactly strike me as .... well ... using my own full potential. If I wanna spend a couple weeks polishing up piece of eye candy, I can get a lot more bang for my buck just doing a digital oilpaint instead (and then charge the commissioner based on hours). The point of "Games" really is interactivity
Yes SOE have said that the Storybricks system (or a simpler version) will be in game so you will be able to design your own dungeons and adventures (only in your claim, but they get larger and larger). This will probably at best happen this autumn as Smokejumper recently said that Mob AI is difficult to program in a voxel based system where the terrain can change instantly.
Chi puo dir com'egli arde é in picciol fuoco.
He who can describe the flame does not burn.
Petrarch
That's a lot earlier than I'll available for (got too many prior engagements this summer) but TYVM for the answer. Knowing SOE, those timeframes tend to slip a few months anyway -- lest the entire product slip instead