In the 30+ zones they use a interesting contested system. Where every so many hours a zone can / will become contested and then at war. Once a zone becomes at war its a FFA area without any real repercusions. But when that happens you can easily move to another 30+ zone (theres several 4+ per side).
Outside of the contested and at war times its generally really peaceful. Because if anyone trys to kill someone else you will gain infamy and they can report you for a crime. 5 reports and you are put on trial where your more then likely going to end up in jail.
Then on top of that the northern contanent is basicly your RvR style area where you will be fighting for keeps every few hours and for control of that land. You also have most of the ocean as a open area where ships are fighting far treasure and cargo runs.
It's not just a FFA gankfest. The systems in place really help to keep it from becoming a free for all 24/7.
That actually sounds like a pretty good system if it works.
In the 30+ zones they use a interesting contested system. Where every so many hours a zone can / will become contested and then at war. Once a zone becomes at war its a FFA area without any real repercusions. But when that happens you can easily move to another 30+ zone (theres several 4+ per side).
Outside of the contested and at war times its generally really peaceful. Because if anyone trys to kill someone else you will gain infamy and they can report you for a crime. 5 reports and you are put on trial where your more then likely going to end up in jail.
Then on top of that the northern contanent is basicly your RvR style area where you will be fighting for keeps every few hours and for control of that land. You also have most of the ocean as a open area where ships are fighting far treasure and cargo runs.
It's not just a FFA gankfest. The systems in place really help to keep it from becoming a free for all 24/7.
That actually sounds like a pretty good system if it works.
Alpha is getting non-stop pour in of new players, I was shocked just how crowded it was today for my first 7 hours into the game, even with the expensive buy in. Something is working, people actually like this game and spreading the word around.
This is why sandboxes really won't work to appeal to the masses. PvP is a HUGE part of the sandbox experience. Some build castles, others tear them down.
A very large portion of SWG's playerbase did not PvP and never had to be subjected to it. PvP is not needed for a good sandbox at all.
Then it can't be considered a sandbox game at all.
This is why sandboxes really won't work to appeal to the masses. PvP is a HUGE part of the sandbox experience. Some build castles, others tear them down.
A very large portion of SWG's playerbase did not PvP and never had to be subjected to it. PvP is not needed for a good sandbox at all.
Then it can't be considered a sandbox game at all.
A well-designed sandbox game should appeal to multiple gaming styles. There should be options for the PvE crowd and the PvP folks. There's no reason that both options can't be available in a sandbox game. Go with the traditional method of PvE servers and PvP servers, and both sides win. Sandbox doesn't mean that it has to be anything goes all the time, there can be degrees of freedom.
This is why sandboxes really won't work to appeal to the masses. PvP is a HUGE part of the sandbox experience. Some build castles, others tear them down.
A very large portion of SWG's playerbase did not PvP and never had to be subjected to it. PvP is not needed for a good sandbox at all.
Then it can't be considered a sandbox game at all.
And yet it's considered one of the best sandbox games of all time... go figure.
this game for the moment is mostly pvp based. Sure you can farm and build your little house and stuff like that but you cant be playing AA for pve because the pve in this game is terrible. Even the dev talked about it and its what they are focusing to improved after the next patch.
This is why sandboxes really won't work to appeal to the masses. PvP is a HUGE part of the sandbox experience. Some build castles, others tear them down.
A very large portion of SWG's playerbase did not PvP and never had to be subjected to it. PvP is not needed for a good sandbox at all.
Then it can't be considered a sandbox game at all.
And yet it's considered one of the best sandbox games of all time... go figure.
I also don't buy into PVP being mandatory to be considered sandbox, or for it to be necessary. I personally think it ruins more than it helps.
Some people here act like they get beat on soon as they log in and the entire time they play lol.
I played Darkfall a couple months after it released. I couldn't get out of the starting town without being ganked by some jerk who has nothing better to do than kill people who stood no chance of beating him.
I'm not asking for consentual PvP everywhere. I simply want to be able to avoid it until I have reached a point in progression that puts me on an even playing field with everyone else. At the very least, players should have to think of the consequences before ganking a helpless lowbie.
Games like DAOC and SWG were great for PvP. I'm not a strictly-PvE player. I just don't like when the two are mixed together so much that random jerks can be internet bullies without being punished for it.
After reading more of this thread, it seems the game might be worth a try, but I'm not dropping money on it until I try it.
This is why sandboxes really won't work to appeal to the masses. PvP is a HUGE part of the sandbox experience. Some build castles, others tear them down.
A very large portion of SWG's playerbase did not PvP and never had to be subjected to it. PvP is not needed for a good sandbox at all.
Then it can't be considered a sandbox game at all.
And yet it's considered one of the best sandbox games of all time... go figure.
I also don't buy into PVP being mandatory to be considered sandbox, or for it to be necessary. I personally think it ruins more than it helps.
I dont buy it either it seems mandatory FFA full loot PVP has been a part of the sandbox mythology since day one. Im not anti-PVP per-se,it just seems impossible to balance. I am however a crappy PVP'er lol so i expect alot of frustration incoming. Still i stand by my opinion that AA for me anyway is so rich in its open world design that i cant pass up the chance to be a part of that world.
As long as you avoid warzones and the open sea you can't be ganked. However there is risk vs reward. If you want to gain higher rewards you'll have to take the risk of entering dangerous areas.
Some people here act like they get beat on soon as they log in and the entire time they play lol.
I played Darkfall a couple months after it released. I couldn't get out of the starting town without being ganked by some jerk who has nothing better to do than kill people who stood no chance of beating him.
I'm not asking for consentual PvP everywhere. I simply want to be able to avoid it until I have reached a point in progression that puts me on an even playing field with everyone else. At the very least, players should have to think of the consequences before ganking a helpless lowbie.
Games like DAOC and SWG were great for PvP. I'm not a strictly-PvE player. I just don't like when the two are mixed together so much that random jerks can be internet bullies without being punished for it.
After reading more of this thread, it seems the game might be worth a try, but I'm not dropping money on it until I try it.
Well to be fair, Darkfall is a heavy pvp game, it was designed to be like that. AA is not. Lot of sandbox games are not designed to be like that. I can think of several that have very little to no pvp what so ever. Themeparks have the same issues in some of their games. But Sandbox's always get slammed with that misconception and its not right. It more or less has to do with your community as well. Community can make or break even the best of games.
...an experience debuff in case you do happen to be ganked...
That killed my interest in this game. No game should impose PvE penalties for losing in PvP. Griefers will enjoy preventing people from leveling and get their e-peens inflated while those trying to level just get frustrated and quit.
Same. Guess I can check ARCHEAGE off my list. Thanks for the heads up guys. Glad I wont be wasting time on this pile of crap.
I think we really need a sticky to point people to how the pvp zone system work. Unsuprising, people are whining and complaining about open world pvp before they even know how it works, much less played it.
All i need to know is if pirates and members of your own faction can pk in 1-30 zones.
Each of the zones that you can openly PVP in go through different phases from war to temporary truce.
During truce you can't attack anyone from your own faction or the enemy faction.
In the build up towards the war you can attack both your own faction and the enemy faction.
During war you can attack your own faction and the enemy faction. Killing the enemy faction players will yield honour points.
Killing your own faction at any time will leave a blood stain. When other players touch the blood stain it disappears and adds criminal points to your character. Once you accumulate 50+ crime points you are flagged as a dangerous criminal. Being flagged as a dangerous criminal means that you will be arrested and sent to court upon death by another player or town guards.
Once you are placed in jail your criminal points are wiped, only for you to accumulate all over again.
If you think you have no chance against a level 50 ganking you, you are sadly misinformed. It's perfectly possible to take on level 50's with a few friends. I know this because I've killed higher levels and also been killed by groups of much lower levels.
Make some friends and stop being such pussies. I for one am happy that there's a game that promotes group play, rather than solo'ing everything.
...an experience debuff in case you do happen to be ganked...
That killed my interest in this game. No game should impose PvE penalties for losing in PvP. Griefers will enjoy preventing people from leveling and get their e-peens inflated while those trying to level just get frustrated and quit.
Same. Guess I can check ARCHEAGE off my list. Thanks for the heads up guys. Glad I wont be wasting time on this pile of crap.
Pile of crap? Far from it.
The game is very far from a pile of crap. that is why im willing to engage in PVP literally for the first time. Its gonna be a hell of a learning curve however. Im getting ready for the pain. Ive been a dedicated raid healer/crafter my entire MMO career. I avoided PVP like the plague. But like the kids say YOLO. Ouch im sorry i gotta say something grown up now "HEY YOU CRAZY KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN". There i feel much better now.
Each of the zones that you can openly PVP in go through different phases from war to temporary truce.
During truce you can't attack anyone from your own faction or the enemy faction.
In the build up towards the war you can attack both your own faction and the enemy faction.
During war you can attack your own faction and the enemy faction. Killing the enemy faction players will yield honour points.
Killing your own faction at any time will leave a blood stain. When other players touch the blood stain it disappears and adds criminal points to your character. Once you accumulate 50+ crime points you are flagged as a dangerous criminal. Being flagged as a dangerous criminal means that you will be arrested and sent to court upon death by another player or town guards.
Once you are placed in jail your criminal points are wiped, only for you to accumulate all over again.
If you think you have no chance against a level 50 ganking you, you are sadly misinformed. It's perfectly possible to take on level 50's with a few friends. I know this because I've killed higher levels and also been killed by groups of much lower levels.
Make some friends and stop being such pussies. I for one am happy that there's a game that promotes group play, rather than solo'ing everything.
good info heck im in the alpha now and i still wasnt clear on some of this as im too busy exploring and cultivating my pot farm lol. That last point you made about group play is pretty important.
im beginning to realize that the inherent political,military and social conflicts driven by PVP may be the ultimate form of content. I SEE now the point so many PVP supporters have tried to articulate.
My only issue now is trying to adapt my gameview to this new reality and wrap my head and outdated attitudes around this. Its hard and scary for some of us ive been a carebear/healer for sooooooo long.
I crave something new heck ya know what? i blame my watching Game Of Thrones on this transformation. I can see the inter-house/faction warfare and intrigue of that mythos playing out in this game and it seems damn cool to me.
My quick internet search says the level cap is 50, which means a good portion of leveling will be in a forced PvP area.
I dislike forced PvP when a clear advantage is given to other players. The clear advantage here is that I will be so far under the level cap that level 50s could kill me without a challenge and prevent my progression. I find that to be a very frustrating experience and would rather avoid games which allow people to be assholes to others without restriction. I get enough of that in real life and don't need it in my video games.
If I am wrong and progression outside of forced PvP areas is the same rate as PvP areas, let me know. Locking a small amount of progression to PvP areas may be tolerable, but 40% of the game is too much for me.
By progression, I am referring to anything which advances a character. This includes fighting mobs, doing quests, obtaining gear, and gathering or crafting.
You would be surprised what a couple level 30s-40s can do to a level 50, if a 50 get chainstunned by 3 lvl 30s he will probably get rekt. especially if said 30s and in full crafted gear.
being able to do open world PvP alone or with friends its a form of freedom. Wanting restricted PvP is out of the sandbox term which people refer. If you are not into open world pvp better avoid titles who have the term of sandbox including in their description : )
Originally posted by loulaki being able to do open world PvP alone or with friends its a form of freedom. Wanting restricted PvP is out of the sandbox term which people refer. If you are not into open world pvp better avoid titles who have the term of sandbox including in their description : )
Consensual pvp means the player has the freedom to say no to pvp and open world pvp is limiting that freedom. Your sandbox logic works both ways.
While the sandbox is all about freedom its never about having absolutely no rules or laws. As long long as there are no decent mechanics to influence rules ingame some of them will present themselves as game mechanics and consensual pvp could be such a mechanic.
I think we really need a sticky to point people to how the pvp zone system work. Unsuprising, people are whining and complaining about open world pvp before they even know how it works, much less played it.
All i need to know is if pirates and members of your own faction can pk in 1-30 zones.
From what I've heard and read if you are a pirate or in the other faction land you can not attack unless attacked first with the exception of the open sea and war zones.
If you think you have no chance against a level 50 ganking you, you are sadly misinformed. It's perfectly possible to take on level 50's with a few friends. I know this because I've killed higher levels and also been killed by groups of much lower levels.
This is good to hear. Shadowbane had a system of diminishing returns on leveling, which lent itself well to a pvp-centric game. I was hoping for something like that.
good info heck im in the alpha now and i still wasnt clear on some of this as im too busy exploring and cultivating my pot farm lol. That last point you made about group play is pretty important.
im beginning to realize that the inherent political,military and social conflicts driven by PVP may be the ultimate form of content. I SEE now the point so many PVP supporters have tried to articulate.
My only issue now is trying to adapt my gameview to this new reality and wrap my head and outdated attitudes around this. Its hard and scary for some of us ive been a carebear/healer for sooooooo long.
I crave something new heck ya know what? i blame my watching Game Of Thrones on this transformation. I can see the inter-house/faction warfare and intrigue of that mythos playing out in this game and it seems damn cool to me.
Fantastic post. I wish there were a way to mark it as an "uberpost" somehow.
I find myself in almost exactly your boat.
Every fantasy story every written has PVP in it, yet games that embrace it have all been ruined by sociopaths and exploiters.
The genre needs to make the Tyrion Lannisters of the world come out on top and not the Joffrey Baratheons.
good info heck im in the alpha now and i still wasnt clear on some of this as im too busy exploring and cultivating my pot farm lol. That last point you made about group play is pretty important.
im beginning to realize that the inherent political,military and social conflicts driven by PVP may be the ultimate form of content. I SEE now the point so many PVP supporters have tried to articulate.
My only issue now is trying to adapt my gameview to this new reality and wrap my head and outdated attitudes around this. Its hard and scary for some of us ive been a carebear/healer for sooooooo long.
I crave something new heck ya know what? i blame my watching Game Of Thrones on this transformation. I can see the inter-house/faction warfare and intrigue of that mythos playing out in this game and it seems damn cool to me.
Fantastic post. I wish there were a way to mark it as an "uberpost" somehow.
I find myself in almost exactly your boat.
Every fantasy story every written has PVP in it, yet games that embrace it have all been ruined by sociopaths and exploiters.
The genre needs to make the Tyrion Lannisters of the world come out on top and not the Joffrey Baratheons.
So true! The insane, very selfish psychopaths who want to ruin people's experiences in the game and laugh at killing over and over should get a minimum of 12 hours in prison in my opinion. The very short sentences encourage them to want to go to jail! If people got half a day or days in jail, this would curb people from being so damn crazy.
I haven't reached level 30 but am in a good large guild that will help me for sure.
Comments
That actually sounds like a pretty good system if it works.
Alpha is getting non-stop pour in of new players, I was shocked just how crowded it was today for my first 7 hours into the game, even with the expensive buy in. Something is working, people actually like this game and spreading the word around.
Then it can't be considered a sandbox game at all.
A well-designed sandbox game should appeal to multiple gaming styles. There should be options for the PvE crowd and the PvP folks. There's no reason that both options can't be available in a sandbox game. Go with the traditional method of PvE servers and PvP servers, and both sides win. Sandbox doesn't mean that it has to be anything goes all the time, there can be degrees of freedom.
And yet it's considered one of the best sandbox games of all time... go figure.
this game for the moment is mostly pvp based. Sure you can farm and build your little house and stuff like that but you cant be playing AA for pve because the pve in this game is terrible. Even the dev talked about it and its what they are focusing to improved after the next patch.
I also don't buy into PVP being mandatory to be considered sandbox, or for it to be necessary. I personally think it ruins more than it helps.
I played Darkfall a couple months after it released. I couldn't get out of the starting town without being ganked by some jerk who has nothing better to do than kill people who stood no chance of beating him.
I'm not asking for consentual PvP everywhere. I simply want to be able to avoid it until I have reached a point in progression that puts me on an even playing field with everyone else. At the very least, players should have to think of the consequences before ganking a helpless lowbie.
Games like DAOC and SWG were great for PvP. I'm not a strictly-PvE player. I just don't like when the two are mixed together so much that random jerks can be internet bullies without being punished for it.
After reading more of this thread, it seems the game might be worth a try, but I'm not dropping money on it until I try it.
Little forum boys with their polished cyber toys: whine whine, boo-hoo, talk talk.
I dont buy it either it seems mandatory FFA full loot PVP has been a part of the sandbox mythology since day one. Im not anti-PVP per-se,it just seems impossible to balance. I am however a crappy PVP'er lol so i expect alot of frustration incoming. Still i stand by my opinion that AA for me anyway is so rich in its open world design that i cant pass up the chance to be a part of that world.
My theme song.
Well to be fair, Darkfall is a heavy pvp game, it was designed to be like that. AA is not. Lot of sandbox games are not designed to be like that. I can think of several that have very little to no pvp what so ever. Themeparks have the same issues in some of their games. But Sandbox's always get slammed with that misconception and its not right. It more or less has to do with your community as well. Community can make or break even the best of games.
Pile of crap? Far from it.
I think we really need a sticky to point people to how the pvp zone system work. Unsuprising, people are whining and complaining about open world pvp before they even know how it works, much less played it.
All i need to know is if pirates and members of your own faction can pk in 1-30 zones.
Lets clear a few things up about the pvp zones.
Each of the zones that you can openly PVP in go through different phases from war to temporary truce.
During truce you can't attack anyone from your own faction or the enemy faction.
In the build up towards the war you can attack both your own faction and the enemy faction.
During war you can attack your own faction and the enemy faction. Killing the enemy faction players will yield honour points.
Killing your own faction at any time will leave a blood stain. When other players touch the blood stain it disappears and adds criminal points to your character. Once you accumulate 50+ crime points you are flagged as a dangerous criminal. Being flagged as a dangerous criminal means that you will be arrested and sent to court upon death by another player or town guards.
Once you are placed in jail your criminal points are wiped, only for you to accumulate all over again.
If you think you have no chance against a level 50 ganking you, you are sadly misinformed. It's perfectly possible to take on level 50's with a few friends. I know this because I've killed higher levels and also been killed by groups of much lower levels.
Make some friends and stop being such pussies. I for one am happy that there's a game that promotes group play, rather than solo'ing everything.
The game is very far from a pile of crap. that is why im willing to engage in PVP literally for the first time. Its gonna be a hell of a learning curve however. Im getting ready for the pain. Ive been a dedicated raid healer/crafter my entire MMO career. I avoided PVP like the plague. But like the kids say YOLO. Ouch im sorry i gotta say something grown up now "HEY YOU CRAZY KIDS GET OFF MY LAWN". There i feel much better now.
good info heck im in the alpha now and i still wasnt clear on some of this as im too busy exploring and cultivating my pot farm lol. That last point you made about group play is pretty important.
im beginning to realize that the inherent political,military and social conflicts driven by PVP may be the ultimate form of content. I SEE now the point so many PVP supporters have tried to articulate.
My only issue now is trying to adapt my gameview to this new reality and wrap my head and outdated attitudes around this. Its hard and scary for some of us ive been a carebear/healer for sooooooo long.
I crave something new heck ya know what? i blame my watching Game Of Thrones on this transformation. I can see the inter-house/faction warfare and intrigue of that mythos playing out in this game and it seems damn cool to me.
You would be surprised what a couple level 30s-40s can do to a level 50, if a 50 get chainstunned by 3 lvl 30s he will probably get rekt. especially if said 30s and in full crafted gear.
Consensual pvp means the player has the freedom to say no to pvp and open world pvp is limiting that freedom. Your sandbox logic works both ways.
While the sandbox is all about freedom its never about having absolutely no rules or laws. As long long as there are no decent mechanics to influence rules ingame some of them will present themselves as game mechanics and consensual pvp could be such a mechanic.
From what I've heard and read if you are a pirate or in the other faction land you can not attack unless attacked first with the exception of the open sea and war zones.
My theme song.
This is good to hear. Shadowbane had a system of diminishing returns on leveling, which lent itself well to a pvp-centric game. I was hoping for something like that.
Fantastic post. I wish there were a way to mark it as an "uberpost" somehow.
I find myself in almost exactly your boat.
Every fantasy story every written has PVP in it, yet games that embrace it have all been ruined by sociopaths and exploiters.
The genre needs to make the Tyrion Lannisters of the world come out on top and not the Joffrey Baratheons.
So true! The insane, very selfish psychopaths who want to ruin people's experiences in the game and laugh at killing over and over should get a minimum of 12 hours in prison in my opinion. The very short sentences encourage them to want to go to jail! If people got half a day or days in jail, this would curb people from being so damn crazy.
I haven't reached level 30 but am in a good large guild that will help me for sure.