Rift rides the line on P2W, this is true, but you still CAN earn it in game just by playing, which techincally doesn't make it P2W, more like a P2Shortcut. If it was actually considered P2W then other games that ride the line like GW2, EQ, EQ2, etc are all P2W as well, and I just don't think that's completely true.
P2W is a pretty subjective term these days though. Winning to some people is having the best and newest outfits to show. That's their own version of "winning", so games like GW2 would fall into that category, though technically by a text book definition GW2 isn't quite P2W, it's just another game that lets you pay to achieve things faster than people who don't pay. It really is all subjective imo.
There has always been an element of it but until now there top tier weapons and armor have never been available through spending real world money in the cash shop .
This is true. I enjoy Rift a lot, but it does seem to be moving more towards a P2W style gameplay. It's really sad, Rift used to be THE game to play if you didn't want to play WoW for PvE/PvP themeparks, but this move may end up doing more damage than problem solving.
What I really don't get is, the servers are all medium/high pop still. I know they are making plenty of money off the outfits alone, because everyone and their dog has wardrobe outfits purchased through the Rift store these days. What gives Trion?
The servers are all medium/high, but there arent many of them and they are relatively small. Its not like they are 'megaservers'.
The problem is, there isnt much incentive to be a patron. Most f2p conversions like EQ2 or SWTOR are still predominantly sub games. Patron status in Rift feels like a means to exploit the loyal without giving any real value in return. Great for pure f2p, bad for Trion.
Originally posted by CrazKanuk You can still get Depleted Infinity Shards in-game, right? If so, I fail to see how this is P2W. It just sounds like your regular, run of the mill time-sink mechanism. Sure, they're trying to squeeze you, so does your cable and phone company. Fact is, you can do the exact same thing as someone buying these boxes. Just not on the same schedule.
1 per daily , 15 weekly for warfront quests ,45 more for quests involving conquests . You would also be able to top them up with buying depleted lock boxes . Given it takes 550 using this method doing a lot of pvp you would be hard pushed to get one piece of gear ungraded in a month . Each character has 14 pieces of upgradable gear so it would take you a year or more to aquire the kind of gear that someone who is willing to spend the money can aquire in minuets .
Thats pay to win in my books .
It has never been pay to win and never will be. you can throw as much cash as you like at the cash shop to buy pvp gear but without the rank to use it it is useless. and the people who actually use their brain will know there is no point in buying any pvp gear as you have to grind the rank to use it so not exactly pay to win as you claim.
A certain rank does have to be achieved to use it but any game that make it possible to get the top legendary gear instantly once you do via a cash shop is pay to win in my view . My worry is not for Rift which is basically mostly PVE but for Archeage which is a world pvp title . If they do the same thing there and make it possible to obtain legendary gear in a similar manner it defeats leveling because by the time you obtain such gear it will most likely be upgraded and out of date . It also defeats subscribing because you will never have enough credit to obtain the gear from the cash shop without spending more money on top of it . In a PVP game thats a killer .
The only people who would buy the pvp gear would be people who don't have a clue, as I said before you have to grind the rank to use it and by doing so you have enough currency to be able to buy it without the need to spend any real world cash or credits at all so if you know what you are doing you would never buy any gear from the cash shop as there is no need at all.
Originally posted by Dauzqul It's a free game. It's free to play. You're upset on having to spend 3 dollars to update your armor once?
These boxes contain 6-10 depleted infinity shards it would cost over a hundred dollars to upgrade one piece of armor to legendary so I don't know where you get 3 dollars from . Also this has happened even though Trion pledged top armor and weapons would not be available in the cash shop for real money .
When a company ask to pay 100$ to upgrade single piece of equipment which in turn will be the 2nd best equipment in game, you call it pay2win? i play rift too and i have never seen any idiot to try and spend 100$ to upgrade their myrmidion gears. if the company asked 5 or 10$ for each piece upgrade to legendary and allowed use to upgrade to the best legendary pvp gear then i would call it pay2win because then obviously those who would open up their wallet would win. asking ridiculous and outrageous price for a 2nd best upgrade obviously tells me that the company doesn't want the game to be pay2win.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
Rift rides the line on P2W, this is true, but you still CAN earn it in game just by playing, which techincally doesn't make it P2W, more like a P2Shortcut. If it was actually considered P2W then other games that ride the line like GW2, EQ, EQ2, etc are all P2W as well, and I just don't think that's completely true.
P2W is a pretty subjective term these days though. Winning to some people is having the best and newest outfits to show. That's their own version of "winning", so games like GW2 would fall into that category, though technically by a text book definition GW2 isn't quite P2W, it's just another game that lets you pay to achieve things faster than people who don't pay. It really is all subjective imo.
There has always been an element of it but until now there top tier weapons and armor have never been available through spending real world money in the cash shop .
This is true. I enjoy Rift a lot, but it does seem to be moving more towards a P2W style gameplay. It's really sad, Rift used to be THE game to play if you didn't want to play WoW for PvE/PvP themeparks, but this move may end up doing more damage than problem solving.
What I really don't get is, the servers are all medium/high pop still. I know they are making plenty of money off the outfits alone, because everyone and their dog has wardrobe outfits purchased through the Rift store these days. What gives Trion?
The servers are all medium/high, but there arent many of them and they are relatively small. Its not like they are 'megaservers'.
The problem is, there isnt much incentive to be a patron. Most f2p conversions like EQ2 or SWTOR are still predominantly sub games. Patron status in Rift feels like a means to exploit the loyal without giving any real value in return. Great for pure f2p, bad for Trion.
I see what you are saying. Personally I found the patron sub to be well worth the money just for the increases in faction gains for the faction grinds, token increases, and favor increases you get daily.
I have seen many complaints about patron being not worth it however, so I can definitely see why some would not bother if they are faction capped or no longer need loot tokens.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Trion is not the same company that launched Rift. At one point, I would have called them the best team on the market, but that is just not true anymore. When it was announced that Trion would get ArcheAge, I was really happy with it, but as time goes on they do more and more questionable stuff.
Over the course of just about three years Trion has made a transformation from the closest to its customers to the most untrustworthy company. Their level of shadyness has topped those of Funcom by now.
I wouldn't touch AA with a ten foot pole and i'm sure Trion will find a way to run it down, just like every title they touched turned into a stinker due to their questionable decisions.
If it wasn't for this site constantly featuring the company left and right, nobody would even talk about them anymore.
Over the course of just about three years Trion has made a transformation from the closest to its customers to the most untrustworthy company. Their level of shadyness has topped those of Funcom by now.
I wouldn't touch AA with a ten foot pole and i'm sure Trion will find a way to run it down, just like every title they touched turned into a stinker due to their questionable decisions.
If it wasn't for this site constantly featuring the company left and right, nobody would even talk about them anymore.
I don't know about going that extreme, but I do agree with you for the most part. Trion used to be a company for the people, and now they act more like a Funcom. They still release great products and I consider Rift to be one the best themeparks to come out in the last 5 years, but questionable decisions on the business side definitely throw up some red flags these days. I do hope they come to their senses instead of getting even worse.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
o really answer this find out h ow many people are rolling around fully gears and fully upgraded. I would say ZERO. While it is POSSIBLE it is highly unlikely. If it were truly 'pay to win' then there would be a lot of people running around maxed out.
Now in a game like AA who knows. GW2 sort of has a mechenism like this, how much did people spend just o get a 'commander' title? I really didnt see a lot of 'pay to win' talk there. Now you might not get armor but you get buffs and a fancy dot.
In the end, especially in PvP it has a lot less to do with the gear and th knowledge of your toon. Does it help? Sure. Wil it make someone who bought all their gear better than someone who is a better player beat that better player? Unlikely. Might make them a little more competitive, but a better player is still going to be better.
Commander in GW2 can only be obtained by spending 100g + 250 Badges of Honor (which can be acquired by playing WvWvW)...
You do not get any "buffs", only thing you do get is a map marker and tools which allow you to see group supplies, people and so on. It makes a commanders job easier and you can coordinate and do stuff easier with a large zerg or group.
If you wish to get 100 golds quickly it'll cost you 18$ trough gem shop conversion at todays rate.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life." -------------------------------
I cant say anymore if there is still a red line for f2p games, when it comes to what they sell in the cash shop. I dont know even if we can ask as players to exist this red line.
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1 Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
Originally posted by kikosforever I cant say anymore if there is still a red line for f2p games, when it comes to what they sell in the cash shop. I dont know even if we can ask as players to exist this red line.
I think its for the individual to decide when that red line is crossed . For me Trion just crossed that red line thats why I uninstalled Rift today and cancelled my subscription .
Originally posted by kikosforever I cant say anymore if there is still a red line for f2p games, when it comes to what they sell in the cash shop. I dont know even if we can ask as players to exist this red line.
I think its for the individual to decide when that red line is crossed . For me Trion just crossed that red line thats why I uninstalled Rift today and cancelled my subscription .
I guess you are right. There isnt some kind of general rule about f2p. Its all about personal tastes
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1 Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
Originally posted by Dauzqul It's a free game. It's free to play. You're upset on having to spend 3 dollars to update your armor once?
You understand that AA will tank if Trion starts selling armor, right? Cosmetics and fluff are absolutely OK in a F2P game, armor, weapons, permanent stat boosts and such are not for most players, especially in a PvP centric game.
In all AA games costumes have stats too. There are costumes without stats and those who have them and cost more. They are not the best gear in the game though, that's obtained with crafting.
Originally posted by sumdumguy1 And he came down from the gaming heavens and said, lo and behold unto all of the chosen gaming followers, for I tell you that the future is but past forgotten. They care not for you, but for the greed that hardens their hearts. It is but a choice you must make to accept or not accept, the choice is yours.
And verily I say, unto the lost and wicked came a flood. And the flood was deep as those that were spurned from the wealth and those that coveted chain mail that shines as so does the sun. Washed asunder were those wicked and greed borne were lashed upon the shore of disdain.
Lost were the many, confused were the few, and mighty is the wrath from above...
The Book of Alyn
All I want is the truth Just gimme some truth John Lennon
Remember when we had a subscription model and no in-game store? When everything was attainable in game with a good group of friends and a little hard work? Hows that F2P, micro managed transaction bullshit working out for everyone now?
Originally posted by xAPOCx Remember when we had a subscription model and no in-game store? When everything was attainable in game with a good group of friends and a little hard work? Hows that F2P, micro managed transaction bullshit working out for everyone now?
remember when there were only 4 MMOs out there and two of them werent playable?
Well both Rift and AA are F2P....to keep these games running...they need to make money. So those willing to put money into the game to keep it running certainly do deserve to be better equipped than the freeloaders. If everything was set up for both freeloaders and paying customers to be on equal ground....what would be the point of paying any money. Everybody would just run on F2P status and that would quickly shut down the games.
If you like the game support it by dumping a few bucks into it once in a while. Don't cry cause it's not 100% free. Nothing is free in the world. Even tho this generation seems to think the previous generation owes them a living.
AMEN! I agree with the post you made....not sure how the folks expect the company to make money if not one person pays anything.
If you enjoy it and would pay a 15 dollar sub t hen spend 15 in store for fluff items each month if you cant afford then that is fine but if your just a jerk about it then please leave.
Even with the 150$ alpha sooooooo many jerks in it and can only get worse once its live hopefully Trion pulls out the ban hammer on a lot of the people that are violating the TOS(yeah most don't read it) but its common sense.
I think people are forgetting that AA is not trion's game. They cannot simply add whatever cash shop item they want without the approval of the developers in Korea. Trion is simply the NA host that follows korea's rules for the game.
Well both Rift and AA are F2P....to keep these games running...they need to make money. So those willing to put money into the game to keep it running certainly do deserve to be better equipped than the freeloaders. If everything was set up for both freeloaders and paying customers to be on equal ground....what would be the point of paying any money. Everybody would just run on F2P status and that would quickly shut down the games.
If you like the game support it by dumping a few bucks into it once in a while. Don't cry cause it's not 100% free. Nothing is free in the world. Even tho this generation seems to thing the previous generation owes them a living.
Both will also offer optional subscriptions . Even with the points given to keep up you would have to spend a lot of real world money . So where is the insentive to subscribe .
Well the solution is quite simple....don't spend the money. In all likelyhood the vast majority of players won't even touch on that if this is the case. So really only a very small portion of the playerbase would even dump that kinda money into the game. Most will carry on gaming as usual.
They probibly felt the need to go this route to make extra money to keep the game going smoothly. So why complain? If a few people here and there spend the money, it probibly means the game will continue to run.
If they stop doing updates and adding new content due to lack of funds...you would complain too.
For some reason it just really bothers people to know someone else can do this. Even though if they didn't know it was happening, their gameplay experience would have never changed. But suddenly now knowing that people can buy this, hurts them.
And then ultimately, in PvP people will start blaming all their losses on the other person buying gear.
Unfortunately, you cant buy skill.......so really whats the big deal? The people that know how to play will earn their gear quickly, while the spenders will buy their way to their gear and dont know how to play PVP ... whats the problem again?
Some of the posters in this topic complained about TESOs subscription model and subscription models in general. Profund arguments did not interest you, so let me add the following:
Originally posted by xAPOCx Remember when we had a subscription model and no in-game store? When everything was attainable in game with a good group of friends and a little hard work? Hows that F2P, micro managed transaction bullshit working out for everyone now?
remember when there were only 4 MMOs out there and two of them werent playable?
What the hell does that have to do with the payment model? The truth is the f2p model has caused a huge rift in the mmo world. it solved no problems and just created more.
Well both Rift and AA are F2P....to keep these games running...they need to make money. So those willing to put money into the game to keep it running certainly do deserve to be better equipped than the freeloaders. If everything was set up for both freeloaders and paying customers to be on equal ground....what would be the point of paying any money. Everybody would just run on F2P status and that would quickly shut down the games.
If you like the game support it by dumping a few bucks into it once in a while. Don't cry cause it's not 100% free. Nothing is free in the world. Even tho this generation seems to think the previous generation owes them a living.
AMEN! I agree with the post you made....not sure how the folks expect the company to make money if not one person pays anything.
If you enjoy it and would pay a 15 dollar sub t hen spend 15 in store for fluff items each month if you cant afford then that is fine but if your just a jerk about it then please leave.
Even with the 150$ alpha sooooooo many jerks in it and can only get worse once its live hopefully Trion pulls out the ban hammer on a lot of the people that are violating the TOS(yeah most don't read it) but its common sense.
You have to rememebr that the people that are bitching about this dont give a shit about the company. They just want to play free games and to hell with everyone else.
Originally posted by greatskys Recently Trion offered depleted lock boxes available through the in game store for 650 credits . These lockboxes drop deleted infinity shards 550 of which can upgrade the top level Myrmidon armor from epic to legendary . Essentially for the first time top level armor an weapons are available in the cash shop for real money . Even though it is costly I'm sure there are people willing to do so . My concern is now that they have crossed this line what would stop them doing the same in ArcheAge which is a far more PVP centric game than Rift .
the benefits of a legendary vs an epic same item is about 3% stats.
also everything in-store can be bought with points that you get from using REX which is sold in AH.
it's not pay to win, it's play to win.
This is a topic born out of ignorance and spite. Please dont try and make sense here
Comments
Here is a nice video on the subject..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi4ct8rWQd8
It's still has some speculation but it's a nice watch nonetheless.
"You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
"Laugh and the world laughs with you. Weep and you weep alone."
The servers are all medium/high, but there arent many of them and they are relatively small. Its not like they are 'megaservers'.
The problem is, there isnt much incentive to be a patron. Most f2p conversions like EQ2 or SWTOR are still predominantly sub games. Patron status in Rift feels like a means to exploit the loyal without giving any real value in return. Great for pure f2p, bad for Trion.
The only people who would buy the pvp gear would be people who don't have a clue, as I said before you have to grind the rank to use it and by doing so you have enough currency to be able to buy it without the need to spend any real world cash or credits at all so if you know what you are doing you would never buy any gear from the cash shop as there is no need at all.
When a company ask to pay 100$ to upgrade single piece of equipment which in turn will be the 2nd best equipment in game, you call it pay2win? i play rift too and i have never seen any idiot to try and spend 100$ to upgrade their myrmidion gears. if the company asked 5 or 10$ for each piece upgrade to legendary and allowed use to upgrade to the best legendary pvp gear then i would call it pay2win because then obviously those who would open up their wallet would win. asking ridiculous and outrageous price for a 2nd best upgrade obviously tells me that the company doesn't want the game to be pay2win.
Boobs are LIFE, Boobs are LOVE, Boobs are JUSTICE, Boobs are mankind's HOPES and DREAMS. People who complain about boobs have lost their humanity.
I see what you are saying. Personally I found the patron sub to be well worth the money just for the increases in faction gains for the faction grinds, token increases, and favor increases you get daily.
I have seen many complaints about patron being not worth it however, so I can definitely see why some would not bother if they are faction capped or no longer need loot tokens.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Over the course of just about three years Trion has made a transformation from the closest to its customers to the most untrustworthy company. Their level of shadyness has topped those of Funcom by now.
I wouldn't touch AA with a ten foot pole and i'm sure Trion will find a way to run it down, just like every title they touched turned into a stinker due to their questionable decisions.
If it wasn't for this site constantly featuring the company left and right, nobody would even talk about them anymore.
I don't know about going that extreme, but I do agree with you for the most part. Trion used to be a company for the people, and now they act more like a Funcom. They still release great products and I consider Rift to be one the best themeparks to come out in the last 5 years, but questionable decisions on the business side definitely throw up some red flags these days. I do hope they come to their senses instead of getting even worse.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Commander in GW2 can only be obtained by spending 100g + 250 Badges of Honor (which can be acquired by playing WvWvW)...
You do not get any "buffs", only thing you do get is a map marker and tools which allow you to see group supplies, people and so on. It makes a commanders job easier and you can coordinate and do stuff easier with a large zerg or group.
If you wish to get 100 golds quickly it'll cost you 18$ trough gem shop conversion at todays rate.
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
-------------------------------
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
I think its for the individual to decide when that red line is crossed . For me Trion just crossed that red line thats why I uninstalled Rift today and cancelled my subscription .
I guess you are right. There isnt some kind of general rule about f2p. Its all about personal tastes
All Time Favorites: EQ1, WoW, EvE, GW1
Playing Now: WoW, ESO, GW2
In all AA games costumes have stats too. There are costumes without stats and those who have them and cost more. They are not the best gear in the game though, that's obtained with crafting.
And verily I say, unto the lost and wicked came a flood. And the flood was deep as those that were spurned from the wealth and those that coveted chain mail that shines as so does the sun. Washed asunder were those wicked and greed borne were lashed upon the shore of disdain.
Lost were the many, confused were the few, and mighty is the wrath from above...
The Book of Alyn
All I want is the truth
Just gimme some truth
John Lennon
remember when there were only 4 MMOs out there and two of them werent playable?
AMEN! I agree with the post you made....not sure how the folks expect the company to make money if not one person pays anything.
If you enjoy it and would pay a 15 dollar sub t hen spend 15 in store for fluff items each month if you cant afford then that is fine but if your just a jerk about it then please leave.
Even with the 150$ alpha sooooooo many jerks in it and can only get worse once its live hopefully Trion pulls out the ban hammer on a lot of the people that are violating the TOS(yeah most don't read it) but its common sense.
Unfortunately, you cant buy skill.......so really whats the big deal? The people that know how to play will earn their gear quickly, while the spenders will buy their way to their gear and dont know how to play PVP ... whats the problem again?
Some of the posters in this topic complained about TESOs subscription model and subscription models in general. Profund arguments did not interest you, so let me add the following:
Welcome to the world of free-2-play MMOs!
What the hell does that have to do with the payment model? The truth is the f2p model has caused a huge rift in the mmo world. it solved no problems and just created more.
You have to rememebr that the people that are bitching about this dont give a shit about the company. They just want to play free games and to hell with everyone else.
This is a topic born out of ignorance and spite. Please dont try and make sense here