Originally posted by cheyane You are in it Manasong this site.
Nah, it isn't, I might have to re-read them all, they are starting to blur on my mind, I'm starting to think it was The Escapist review that I remembered being too light on the game.
Originally posted by Gravarg Just wondering why all you bashers aren't in your game of choice right now?
For the same reason that people who enjoy the game constantly feel the need to defend it.
The point I was making was it seems all you trolls just sit here in the forums bashing every MMO. Looking through people's posting history, the majority of people on this site only bash everything and never right anything positive about anything. If you focus on the bad in anything, you'll never see the good in anything.
I think I'm one of the few people that ever post at least one positive thing in every game forum I've ever posted in. Eve is a good example. I absolutely hate the menu-fest it is, but I don't think it's a bad game, and I don't spend 40 hours a week in it's forums bashing it. Some people need to get a life lol.
I know how you feel. I don't think I've ever gone into a game hoping to hate it. Even if I end up hating a game I wouldn't invest large amounts of time trying to convince players that like a game that they should hate it for the same reasons I do.
It would be like me going to Twilight fansites and telling a bunch of teenage girls that Kristen Stewart is a terrible actress and that no dreamy emo vampire is ever going to want them. (Honestly, this might be much more amusing than this site)
From my point of view, which is a POV of a person who is interested in ESO a bit but has not played, even when I had beta access. This game seems to have problems but then again every game always does. From this review, I didn't feel the emotion everyone is talking about, but I will say that it is not helping me get any type of excitement about the game.
I have been considering trying it, but after reviews like this and many posts/threads (especially on this site) of the love/hate posters have of this game, I'm not going to be purchasing it any time soon. Although, with full disclosure, I hate themeparks anymore, after WoW, I was just too burnt out, so might be a personal problem of mine or just change of tastes.
So I will say, all of the posts/reviews/flaming/fanboyism for this, it has scared me aware from even trying it. I feel I cant get a good feel of how the game is, without playing it, and I'm not interested in shelling out $60 bucks for 30 days I "might" enjoy and with more and more people saying it has a ton of problems, cant see me trying it anytime in the next year.
However, I still play EQ P99 and wishing Patheon:ROTF comes out, so I have my own issues..... LOL
From my point of view, which is a POV of a person who is interested in ESO a bit but has not played, even when I had beta access. This game seems to have problems but then again every game always does. From this review, I didn't feel the emotion everyone is talking about, but I will say that it is not helping me get any type of excitement about the game.
I have been considering trying it, but after reviews like this and many posts/threads (especially on this site) of the love/hate posters have of this game, I'm not going to be purchasing it any time soon. Although, with full disclosure, I hate themeparks anymore, after WoW, I was just too burnt out, so might be a personal problem of mine or just change of tastes.
So I will say, all of the posts/reviews/flaming/fanboyism for this, it has scared me aware from even trying it. I feel I cant get a good feel of how the game is, without playing it, and I'm not interested in shelling out $60 bucks for 30 days I "might" enjoy and with more and more people saying it has a ton of problems, cant see me trying it anytime in the next year.
However, I still play EQ P99 and wishing Patheon:ROTF comes out, so I have my own issues..... LOL
Lol that's every game. Most of them either hate everything, or are bored Wildstar/Archeage fans. Just look at most poster's histories.
Wildstar Fan: <Wildstar Forums> "omg I had so much fun this last beta....and I didn't experience an performance issues. It was flowers and sunshine".
Wildstar Fan: <ESO Forums> "Most terrible worsterest game ever made ever for all of ever forever".
Wildstar Fan Alt Account: <ESO Forums> "Agreed. +1"
ESO really is a lot better than reviews like this let on. I would say the review by Bill Murphy is probably the most spot on review I have read to date. Game has had some bugs but nothing over the top compared to my other mmo experiences (starting with eq1 in 99).
i do miss truly epic open dungeons, I.e. Soluseks eye in eq2, but we aren't getting that in eso. I am hoping at least for some of that raid feel, though, in craglorn.
overall eso is a fun game, some more polish and the new stuff coming in and it may turn out to be a really good game.
People complaining about a game launching with 30 unique dungeons and 100 variations...
That is being MORE than generous. In actuality there is 1 dungeon with very minor variations. They pretty much all end up being a big LOOP with no mazey "dungeoness" to them.
Originally posted by Gravarg To put it in perspective, you complain about a game that launches with ~30 unique dungeon lay outs...You do realize that is actually alot. WoW only had 14 dungeons at launch...if you want to compare things, and not be mindless bash-addicts. People make me laugh. The game isn't going F2P. If it's not your cup of tea, you better look elsewhere. Just wondering why all you bashers aren't in your game of choice right now? Perhaps it's because you are not an MMO player, but a transplant from the RTS or FPS world. MMOs play and have different goals than RTS and FPS games. If all you're going to do is hate on every game that is ever launched, then you sir are a troll.
Go back and add up every single one of these in Vanilla WoW and add them to your count before you make such statements.
You can even count only the ones that have named mobs and/or had quest objectives in them.
In WoW terminology those are micro dungeons. They aren't any different from any other area in the world where there are mobs, except they are underground, inside a ship, etc. There are many of those areas, some very small, some quite large, but few, if any, of them contain group content. Most of the group content was and is in World Dungeons, or the instanced dungeons scattered throughout the world.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
People complaining about a game launching with 30 unique dungeons and 100 variations...
That is being MORE than generous. In actuality there is 1 dungeon with very minor variations. They pretty much all end up being a big LOOP with no mazey "dungeoness" to them.
You know, that is a decent throw back to good Elder Scrolls design. The dungeons have always been copy/paste affairs with little or no creativity.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Gravarg To put it in perspective, you complain about a game that launches with ~30 unique dungeon lay outs...You do realize that is actually alot. WoW only had 14 dungeons at launch...if you want to compare things, and not be mindless bash-addicts. People make me laugh. The game isn't going F2P. If it's not your cup of tea, you better look elsewhere. Just wondering why all you bashers aren't in your game of choice right now? Perhaps it's because you are not an MMO player, but a transplant from the RTS or FPS world. MMOs play and have different goals than RTS and FPS games. If all you're going to do is hate on every game that is ever launched, then you sir are a troll.
Go back and add up every single one of these in Vanilla WoW and add them to your count before you make such statements.
You can even count only the ones that have named mobs and/or had quest objectives in them.
In WoW terminology those are micro dungeons. They aren't any different from any other area in the world where there are mobs, except they are underground, inside a ship, etc. There are many of those areas, some very small, some quite large, but few, if any, of them contain group content. Most of the group content was and is in World Dungeons, or the instanced dungeons scattered throughout the world.
Semantics aside, WoW's "micro dungeons" weren't copy and pasted to ad nauseam like the game in discussion either. Lazy design no matter what you call it.
People complaining about a game launching with 30 unique dungeons and 100 variations...
That is being MORE than generous. In actuality there is 1 dungeon with very minor variations. They pretty much all end up being a big LOOP with no mazey "dungeoness" to them.
You know, that is a decent throw back to good Elder Scrolls design. The dungeons have always been copy/paste affairs with little or no creativity.
True, but the old throwbacks weren't charging a you a sub for the sake of content. If you want to charge for it, you have to consider that some consumers will not think this is acceptable. While some may defend this BS by calling it a "delve", the fans clearly felt ok with calling these dungeons for the sake of fluffing the content sales pitch so I see nothing wrong with calling them out on it.
Although I agree with many of the points of the review it did come across as a tad immature and bashing for the sake of it. There are points of ESO I enjoyed. My problem was the quest grind and the boring lack luster classes instead of a skill based system.
Other than that I thought it was a beautiful game with good crafting and a decent community. Different strokes for different folks as they say but the reviewer sounded butthurt and burnt for some reason.
Yah that review did strike me as vengeful. He made some good points in there buried in all the negativity, but it was tough to read since he came off as someone who went in with the intention of bashing the game.
I never felt i was in a dungeon in ESO , really just felt like big basements , and many of them just to similar , such a lack of imagination and creativity ...
WoW had only 14 dungeons at launch but they had Deadmines ,Gnomeregan, Scarlet Monastery and Wailing Caverns . Does ESO have even one dungeon of that caliber ? Okay don't even talk about that what about the public dungeon in Teldrassil. You know the one with the Emerald Dream quest line that others could go in Ban'ethil Barrow Den at a low level like 8 or so. Tell me is there even one dungeon as well done as that in ESO ?
Definitely a hatchet job... but the parts about dungeons, combat, spammers, voice acting, and quests all pretty much matched up with my experiences in the game. And were some of the main reasons I didn't stay longer than two weeks after launch.
Originally posted by Soki123 Well, can t argue here. Worst MMO (if you want to call it that) in years. It feels so amateur, I can t really call it anything other then that.
Just like SWTOR?
Which after the switch to F2P, like so many others, now makes profits?
In the end many will look back and believe it was all planned out by ZOS.
(Don't play either. Do study economics.)
You mean like SWTOR, still SECOND for sub numbers even if pretty far behind Wow? Swtor had one of most smooth launches ever, felt incredible, incredible voice acting i enjoyed even after 8th time with same faction. Only reason I'm not playing SWTOR now is because I play Wow. And fater I will say only reason I do not play now Wow is because I enjoy Swtor. Two best games ever.
People complaining about a game launching with 30 unique dungeons and 100 variations...
Can you show me how one of those 30 look like. Are they simple affairs or actually complex like the ones in Everquest or like Wailing Caverns or Maraudon in WoW. If they are rubbish small and very simple do not bother qouting that 30 figure to try and show that ESO has good dungeon design.
Many of the replicated ones are based on the most simple dungeon design. I notice that the dungeons that repeat each other are very similar to The Barrows in Dark Age of Camelot. This may have worked for DAoC when it first came out, not to mention the difficulty level of The Barrows ramped up the deeper you explored, but these don't touch that in terms of difficulty and exploration. It does get very old very quickly. However, I wouldn't deem ESO 'the worst" MMORPG out there. I think what we're seeing now is like a very broad canvas of an unfinished painting -- it's just waiting to be filled in with more vivid colors and detail.
I feel like the version we see right now is still very much a beta, and that DOES piss me off somewhat, but I'm not ready to write this one off yet, I'm just waiting for a significant content patch to fill in the gaps.
Originally posted by Gravarg To put it in perspective, you complain about a game that launches with ~30 unique dungeon lay outs...You do realize that is actually alot. WoW only had 14 dungeons at launch...if you want to compare things, and not be mindless bash-addicts. People make me laugh. The game isn't going F2P. If it's not your cup of tea, you better look elsewhere. Just wondering why all you bashers aren't in your game of choice right now? Perhaps it's because you are not an MMO player, but a transplant from the RTS or FPS world. MMOs play and have different goals than RTS and FPS games. If all you're going to do is hate on every game that is ever launched, then you sir are a troll.
Go back and add up every single one of these in Vanilla WoW and add them to your count before you make such statements.
You can even count only the ones that have named mobs and/or had quest objectives in them.
In WoW terminology those are micro dungeons. They aren't any different from any other area in the world where there are mobs, except they are underground, inside a ship, etc. There are many of those areas, some very small, some quite large, but few, if any, of them contain group content. Most of the group content was and is in World Dungeons, or the instanced dungeons scattered throughout the world.
Semantics aside, WoW's "micro dungeons" weren't copy and pasted to ad nauseam like the game in discussion either. Lazy design no matter what you call it.
Here's the thing about comparing ESO to WoW, how old is WoW? Almost 10 years now, a really poor choice and it simply makes ESO look even worse. Come on, ESO had a decades worth of experience to build on and they blew it. But it gets better, I can remember those early dungeons (WoW) and the experiences I shared there will last a lifetime, and you know why? For THAT time and THAT point in gaming history WoW nailed it. I doubt anyone will remember these copy and paste dungeons (ESO) a month from now. Two vastly different gaming experiences, sorry but ESO is not the special game it could have been no matter how much you want it to be.
People complaining about a game launching with 30 unique dungeons and 100 variations...
That is being MORE than generous. In actuality there is 1 dungeon with very minor variations. They pretty much all end up being a big LOOP with no mazey "dungeoness" to them.
You know, that is a decent throw back to good Elder Scrolls design. The dungeons have always been copy/paste affairs with little or no creativity.
True, but the old throwbacks weren't charging a you a sub for the sake of content. If you want to charge for it, you have to consider that some consumers will not think this is acceptable. While some may defend this BS by calling it a "delve", the fans clearly felt ok with calling these dungeons for the sake of fluffing the content sales pitch so I see nothing wrong with calling them out on it.
Someone who plays or cares about the game would have to answer this, but if I remember correctly, the dungeons were copy/pasted in place because they weren't the point of the game. The existed, you could certainly run through them, but the point of the game was something else entirely. I don't recall anyone ever saying they completed twenty dungeons or whatever and being excited about it.
There's no disputing that the dungeons are all kind of "same-y" looking and feeling. They are. There's no reason to deny it. But how important is this? How much content is wrapped up in the dungeons? Is this a complaint about Elder Scrolls in general since this is something that comes up with all the Elder Scrolls games, or is this a complaint about the dungeons not living up to the expectations of MMORPG players?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Someone who plays or cares about the game would have to answer this, but if I remember correctly, the dungeons were copy/pasted in place because they weren't the point of the game. The existed, you could certainly run through them, but the point of the game was something else entirely. I don't recall anyone ever saying they completed twenty dungeons or whatever and being excited about it.
There's no disputing that the dungeons are all kind of "same-y" looking and feeling. They are. There's no reason to deny it. But how important is this? How much content is wrapped up in the dungeons? Is this a complaint about Elder Scrolls in general since this is something that comes up with all the Elder Scrolls games, or is this a complaint about the dungeons not living up to the expectations of MMORPG players?
So exactly what is the point of the game? I'd like to think it's whatever makes for a fun gaming experience for each individual player in the game. You simply can't claim some mysterious point to the game (which you have yet to divulge) but claim that it's certainly not dungeons. Are you trying to say dungeons aren't important to ESO? That doesn't make any sense.
You ask how important it is? Well the multiple posts on this thread and the numerous other threads and posts on this site alone say it's VERY important. The dungeons are bland and boring, and that's a function of the decisions ESO developers made. So yes of course it's about ESO! I think the last question is easily answered by a quick review of the posts on this topic.
In short ESO made some serious missteps and the gamers are not fooled. Can they recover? Unlikely, the game is fundamentally flawed and I don't see them starting from scratch. it will become the fantasy version of SWOTR, satisfying the truly devote.
Great... some site that specializes in hardware, run the game's map files through some "find map similarities" kind of stress test and wrapped the results into a review...
So what's next, MMORPG.COM doing CPUs, Mobo and GPUs reviews?
People complaining about a game launching with 30 unique dungeons and 100 variations...
That is being MORE than generous. In actuality there is 1 dungeon with very minor variations. They pretty much all end up being a big LOOP with no mazey "dungeoness" to them.
You know, that is a decent throw back to good Elder Scrolls design. The dungeons have always been copy/paste affairs with little or no creativity.
True, but the old throwbacks weren't charging a you a sub for the sake of content. If you want to charge for it, you have to consider that some consumers will not think this is acceptable. While some may defend this BS by calling it a "delve", the fans clearly felt ok with calling these dungeons for the sake of fluffing the content sales pitch so I see nothing wrong with calling them out on it.
Someone who plays or cares about the game would have to answer this, but if I remember correctly, the dungeons were copy/pasted in place because they weren't the point of the game. The existed, you could certainly run through them, but the point of the game was something else entirely. I don't recall anyone ever saying they completed twenty dungeons or whatever and being excited about it.
There's no disputing that the dungeons are all kind of "same-y" looking and feeling. They are. There's no reason to deny it. But how important is this? How much content is wrapped up in the dungeons? Is this a complaint about Elder Scrolls in general since this is something that comes up with all the Elder Scrolls games, or is this a complaint about the dungeons not living up to the expectations of MMORPG players?
I think dungeons are pretty important in an Elder scrolls game. It's also pretty important in mmos. They are the go to place for group PVE content. They could either be a 24 man raid or a 4 man group, it doesn't really matter if it's just an instance or an open world dungeon, so long if there is a place for you to chill out and do something with other people. It's kinda the point of MMOs
Comments
Nah, it isn't, I might have to re-read them all, they are starting to blur on my mind, I'm starting to think it was The Escapist review that I remembered being too light on the game.
I know how you feel. I don't think I've ever gone into a game hoping to hate it. Even if I end up hating a game I wouldn't invest large amounts of time trying to convince players that like a game that they should hate it for the same reasons I do.
It would be like me going to Twilight fansites and telling a bunch of teenage girls that Kristen Stewart is a terrible actress and that no dreamy emo vampire is ever going to want them. (Honestly, this might be much more amusing than this site)
From my point of view, which is a POV of a person who is interested in ESO a bit but has not played, even when I had beta access. This game seems to have problems but then again every game always does. From this review, I didn't feel the emotion everyone is talking about, but I will say that it is not helping me get any type of excitement about the game.
I have been considering trying it, but after reviews like this and many posts/threads (especially on this site) of the love/hate posters have of this game, I'm not going to be purchasing it any time soon. Although, with full disclosure, I hate themeparks anymore, after WoW, I was just too burnt out, so might be a personal problem of mine or just change of tastes.
So I will say, all of the posts/reviews/flaming/fanboyism for this, it has scared me aware from even trying it. I feel I cant get a good feel of how the game is, without playing it, and I'm not interested in shelling out $60 bucks for 30 days I "might" enjoy and with more and more people saying it has a ton of problems, cant see me trying it anytime in the next year.
However, I still play EQ P99 and wishing Patheon:ROTF comes out, so I have my own issues..... LOL
I've never ran into a single game that I've ever hated.
Now companies business practices, business model or ways that they have changed a game. Well... that would be a different story.
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
Lol that's every game. Most of them either hate everything, or are bored Wildstar/Archeage fans. Just look at most poster's histories.
Wildstar Fan: <Wildstar Forums> "omg I had so much fun this last beta....and I didn't experience an performance issues. It was flowers and sunshine".
Wildstar Fan: <ESO Forums> "Most terrible worsterest game ever made ever for all of ever forever".
Wildstar Fan Alt Account: <ESO Forums> "Agreed. +1"
ESO really is a lot better than reviews like this let on. I would say the review by Bill Murphy is probably the most spot on review I have read to date. Game has had some bugs but nothing over the top compared to my other mmo experiences (starting with eq1 in 99).
i do miss truly epic open dungeons, I.e. Soluseks eye in eq2, but we aren't getting that in eso. I am hoping at least for some of that raid feel, though, in craglorn.
overall eso is a fun game, some more polish and the new stuff coming in and it may turn out to be a really good game.
That is being MORE than generous. In actuality there is 1 dungeon with very minor variations. They pretty much all end up being a big LOOP with no mazey "dungeoness" to them.
In WoW terminology those are micro dungeons. They aren't any different from any other area in the world where there are mobs, except they are underground, inside a ship, etc. There are many of those areas, some very small, some quite large, but few, if any, of them contain group content. Most of the group content was and is in World Dungeons, or the instanced dungeons scattered throughout the world.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You know, that is a decent throw back to good Elder Scrolls design. The dungeons have always been copy/paste affairs with little or no creativity.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Semantics aside, WoW's "micro dungeons" weren't copy and pasted to ad nauseam like the game in discussion either. Lazy design no matter what you call it.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
True, but the old throwbacks weren't charging a you a sub for the sake of content. If you want to charge for it, you have to consider that some consumers will not think this is acceptable. While some may defend this BS by calling it a "delve", the fans clearly felt ok with calling these dungeons for the sake of fluffing the content sales pitch so I see nothing wrong with calling them out on it.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
Yah that review did strike me as vengeful. He made some good points in there buried in all the negativity, but it was tough to read since he came off as someone who went in with the intention of bashing the game.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
You mean like SWTOR, still SECOND for sub numbers even if pretty far behind Wow? Swtor had one of most smooth launches ever, felt incredible, incredible voice acting i enjoyed even after 8th time with same faction. Only reason I'm not playing SWTOR now is because I play Wow. And fater I will say only reason I do not play now Wow is because I enjoy Swtor. Two best games ever.
and yet they all suck
I miss DAoC
Many of the replicated ones are based on the most simple dungeon design. I notice that the dungeons that repeat each other are very similar to The Barrows in Dark Age of Camelot. This may have worked for DAoC when it first came out, not to mention the difficulty level of The Barrows ramped up the deeper you explored, but these don't touch that in terms of difficulty and exploration. It does get very old very quickly. However, I wouldn't deem ESO 'the worst" MMORPG out there. I think what we're seeing now is like a very broad canvas of an unfinished painting -- it's just waiting to be filled in with more vivid colors and detail.
I feel like the version we see right now is still very much a beta, and that DOES piss me off somewhat, but I'm not ready to write this one off yet, I'm just waiting for a significant content patch to fill in the gaps.
Here's the thing about comparing ESO to WoW, how old is WoW? Almost 10 years now, a really poor choice and it simply makes ESO look even worse. Come on, ESO had a decades worth of experience to build on and they blew it. But it gets better, I can remember those early dungeons (WoW) and the experiences I shared there will last a lifetime, and you know why? For THAT time and THAT point in gaming history WoW nailed it. I doubt anyone will remember these copy and paste dungeons (ESO) a month from now. Two vastly different gaming experiences, sorry but ESO is not the special game it could have been no matter how much you want it to be.
Someone who plays or cares about the game would have to answer this, but if I remember correctly, the dungeons were copy/pasted in place because they weren't the point of the game. The existed, you could certainly run through them, but the point of the game was something else entirely. I don't recall anyone ever saying they completed twenty dungeons or whatever and being excited about it.
There's no disputing that the dungeons are all kind of "same-y" looking and feeling. They are. There's no reason to deny it. But how important is this? How much content is wrapped up in the dungeons? Is this a complaint about Elder Scrolls in general since this is something that comes up with all the Elder Scrolls games, or is this a complaint about the dungeons not living up to the expectations of MMORPG players?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
So exactly what is the point of the game? I'd like to think it's whatever makes for a fun gaming experience for each individual player in the game. You simply can't claim some mysterious point to the game (which you have yet to divulge) but claim that it's certainly not dungeons. Are you trying to say dungeons aren't important to ESO? That doesn't make any sense.
You ask how important it is? Well the multiple posts on this thread and the numerous other threads and posts on this site alone say it's VERY important. The dungeons are bland and boring, and that's a function of the decisions ESO developers made. So yes of course it's about ESO! I think the last question is easily answered by a quick review of the posts on this topic.
In short ESO made some serious missteps and the gamers are not fooled. Can they recover? Unlikely, the game is fundamentally flawed and I don't see them starting from scratch. it will become the fantasy version of SWOTR, satisfying the truly devote.
Great... some site that specializes in hardware, run the game's map files through some "find map similarities" kind of stress test and wrapped the results into a review...
So what's next, MMORPG.COM doing CPUs, Mobo and GPUs reviews?
I think dungeons are pretty important in an Elder scrolls game. It's also pretty important in mmos. They are the go to place for group PVE content. They could either be a 24 man raid or a 4 man group, it doesn't really matter if it's just an instance or an open world dungeon, so long if there is a place for you to chill out and do something with other people. It's kinda the point of MMOs
I wish to work on the dungeon design staff for ESO. Here is my portfolio:
b
¯\_(ツ)_/¯