Just that I wouldn't expect it to have strong themepark elements when they are clearly an afterthought and largely used as tutorials for the sandbox features.
Exploration coins and unsafe farming areas don't sound particularly appealing to me.
Fair enough. But surely they fall under the "meaningful exploration" category that you said an open world needs.
Why is it relevant what sandbox has a better engine? I'm talking about AA - not another fictional game.
My point is just that it seems you are condemning the entire 3D sandbox genre.
As for the point of sparse content, I have no idea. I do, however, know that I don't find sparse content interesting - and I don't find endless rows of player houses and farms interesting content to explore.
Your individual takeaways are as valid as anyone else's, I just sense you are conflicted about whether you really are looking for a "Sandbox" experience.
The themepark stuff is not a tutorial for the sandbox part of the game. That is an excuse people use to dismiss the fact the quest lines are boring, unimaginative regurgitated crap. It's there to level. Can you level without doing the themepark quest lines? Sure! If you want to take 3 years to do it because of LP limitations. While some early quests, and one or two random quests during the climb to 50 do explain certain features in game (ala crafting, or example of jury quests) the themepark quest grind is there to level, not as just a tutorial.
Also, quit nitpicking the guy because he doesn't agree with your assessment of the game, the way you come off, like you are trying to make him "wrong" is lame and exactly the type of fanboyism that people are talking about. If you can't acknowledge the faults of the game, how would it ever improve? Its lame that you took a statement he made about having open world dungeons adding flavor to the feel of the world, and tried to rebuttal it with "oh, well you can plant stuff in hidden corners, and get tears for finding secrets"
As for the third point, I didn't feel he was condemning the whole 3D genre as a whole, but instead Archeages limited close range draw problem that is not only listed on this forum in multiple places, but all over any Archeage forum you go to. Almost every user that has posted has agreed that if there is one huge issue with the engine, its the draw method they use of streaming in textures on the fly causing you to have issues where things pop in all around you. As the OP mentioned he understands why they went this route, because of the player additions to cloaks/houses/sails, but he wasn't happy with it. How is that talking down about the whole 3d genre? Why, because he mentioned another game that had this type of player additions went the 2d route?
You do it again with your last statement. He isn't saying he doesn't want a sandbox, he is saying that he doesn't want an open world sandbox where the only real thing across the landscape is large housing areas of the same house replicated over and over again in thrown in system. At least with SWG the player house was made into cities that had reasons to go to them over others. Archeage doesn't. Its random, no house has any reason for you to check it out other the others unless your family owns it and has access to a crafting station you don't... There isn't enough sandbox items and decorations to make each house unique so instead you get loads of "suburbs" with mcmansions.
All in all I think he was pretty damn easy to understand, and fair. The only way you could have a problem or be confused with what he said is if you WANT to be so you don't have to acknowledge what he said are areas that Archeage could improve on dramatically. OP good post, and I agree with most of it. Although it took me a 50 in KR, and in RU before I realized Archeage was kinda like eve for me. Really fun to talk about, not as fun to play.
The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness Bob Marley
Just that I wouldn't expect it to have strong themepark elements when they are clearly an afterthought and largely used as tutorials for the sandbox features.
Exploration coins and unsafe farming areas don't sound particularly appealing to me.
Fair enough. But surely they fall under the "meaningful exploration" category that you said an open world needs.
Why is it relevant what sandbox has a better engine? I'm talking about AA - not another fictional game.
My point is just that it seems you are condemning the entire 3D sandbox genre.
As for the point of sparse content, I have no idea. I do, however, know that I don't find sparse content interesting - and I don't find endless rows of player houses and farms interesting content to explore.
Your individual takeaways are as valid as anyone else's, I just sense you are conflicted about whether you really are looking for a "Sandbox" experience.
The themepark stuff is not a tutorial for the sandbox part of the game. That is an excuse people use to dismiss the fact the quest lines are boring, unimaginative regurgitated crap. It's there to level. Can you level without doing the themepark quest lines? Sure! If you want to take 3 years to do it because of LP limitations. While some early quests, and one or two random quests during the climb to 50 do explain certain features in game (ala crafting, or example of jury quests) the themepark quest grind is there to level, not as just a tutorial.
Also, quit nitpicking the guy because he doesn't agree with your assessment of the game, the way you come off, like you are trying to make him "wrong" is lame and exactly the type of fanboyism that people are talking about. If you can't acknowledge the faults of the game, how would it ever improve? Its lame that you took a statement he made about having open world dungeons adding flavor to the feel of the world, and tried to rebuttal it with "oh, well you can plant stuff in hidden corners, and get tears for finding secrets"
As for the third point, I didn't feel he was condemning the whole 3D genre as a whole, but instead Archeages limited close range draw problem that is not only listed on this forum in multiple places, but all over any Archeage forum you go to. Almost every user that has posted has agreed that if there is one huge issue with the engine, its the draw method they use of streaming in textures on the fly causing you to have issues where things pop in all around you. As the OP mentioned he understands why they went this route, because of the player additions to cloaks/houses/sails, but he wasn't happy with it. How is that talking down about the whole 3d genre? Why, because he mentioned another game that had this type of player additions went the 2d route?
You do it again with your last statement. He isn't saying he doesn't want a sandbox, he is saying that he doesn't want an open world sandbox where the only real thing across the landscape is large housing areas of the same house replicated over and over again in thrown in system. At least with SWG the player house was made into cities that had reasons to go to them over others. Archeage doesn't. Its random, no house has any reason for you to check it out other the others unless your family owns it and has access to a crafting station you don't... There isn't enough sandbox items and decorations to make each house unique so instead you get loads of "suburbs" with mcmansions.
All in all I think he was pretty damn easy to understand, and fair. The only way you could have a problem or be confused with what he said is if you WANT to be so you don't have to acknowledge what he said are areas that Archeage could improve on dramatically. OP good post, and I agree with most of it. Although it took me a 50 in KR, and in RU before I realized Archeage was kinda like eve for me. Really fun to talk about, not as fun to play.
I would actually argue that, at least for the first 30 levels, the quests ARE very much a tutorial for the game's sandbox elements. That might be quests that lead you into a little fighting, a little interacting with the world, some farming, whatever. But so far that's pretty well the meta role that they serve.
Personally, I think that the delivery of the quests is pretty dry, and I think they could be worked in the world in a much better way. It's obviously not the focus of the game and I agree they could/should be improved a lot. But, beyond those quests, there is a definitely a ton of stuff to explore and do. It's a very, very interesting game, and holy crap is it ever a time consuming one If you're going to play this, expect to use all over your free time.
My take on AA so far is that it has 3 main points of focus:
1. Crafting
2. Trade (as in: running trade missions/routes)
3. PvP (in various forms, but particularly as an activity to disrupt trade)
The quests seem to take a sideline and, though you do a lot of them, they feel like they're there to teach you the mechanics, or they're just an extra activity while you're doing those above 3 things. Dungeons feel like the same thing, a side activity put in for variety.
Just my impressions of course, your mileage may vary.
Looked like a mediocre Korean MMO when I first seen screenshots and continues to do so. It's had average (at best) success in Asian countries and just gets more dated with every day they hold back the release in the West.
Every company out there can spin a good story and sell you something that isn't true. NESTalgia brags what sounds like incredible features but lets be honest, it's NES graphics online.
That is to say AA is a game that looks to have incredible ideas which don't even come close to delivering and probably never will.
But it's key to note that much of that is about me and how I'm exhausted with the MMO genre in general. Also, with each new MMO - they seem to all have their own improvements to the genre that I find myself missing in others.
ArcheAge has an absolutely fantastic feature-set, let me put that out there right now. The amount of stuff you can do is simply amazing and finally seems like an evolution of the old Ultima Online concept that I used to consider the core of the MMO genre.
That has all but faded with the way themeparks completely dominate the genre, and though AA is clearly not a pure sandbox, it's enough of a sandbox to keep that part of me occupied, if I liked the rest of the game.
Sadly, the themepark aspect of AA is extremely underwhelming, and I'm finding the questing dull and uninspired. I despise the way mobs are all over the place - but don't seem to do anything except stand around or walk in very limited patterns. I know it's par for the course for sandboxes - but it takes me out of the game.
Another thing I find very disappointing is the lack of open world dungeons. This game would have been the perfect version of Vanguard - except that it seems to have nothing interesting to find in the open world. Sure, you can find resources to harvest and the occasional rare spawn, but that's about it. What good is an open world without meaningful exploration?
Then there's the art style and overall atmosphere - which I find nauseatingly upbeat and juvenile. I'm not a fan of dark, dark, dark either - as I prefer a balance of moods and atmosphere. But if I'm going to take a world seriously, it has to have compelling lore and plausible characters populating it. Lord of the Rings Online had a fantastic world, for instance.
I'm a big fan of PvP - but this game seems set up to be all about group PvP. I'm not anti-social - but I often prefer to play alone, and I don't enjoy feeling forced to group to enjoy the game. Now, I haven't played it enough to be sure - and it's mostly based on the design that I've been researching. But it doesn't seem like any solo PvP player would be of use and since it's not full loot - there's really nothing much to gain as an incentive. You can loot packs of resources, I guess - but I'd lose that in a second in such a group oriented environment.
Then there's the engine itself, which while clearly capable - is just not working for me when it comes to player created content. Due to the unpredictable nature of player content - the engine has to load it moments before you're upon it, which creates massive pop-ups all over the place. This is jarring and not at all immersive. One advantage of Ultima Online was the tilebased 2D image approach, which meant everything was in memory and rarely "popped up" as such.
The world design is also lacking, based on the ~7-8 areas I've seen so far. Not enough to set them apart - and they seem way too empty and sparsely populated with unique content. The towns are underwhelming and even the biggest ones seem almost pointless except as quest/crafting hubs.
I could go on and I know this is coming off as very negative. I'm sorry about that, and I can only re-iterate what I said at first, that I'm probably just tired of the genre in general.
It has the basic structure of an AMAZING MMO - but the actual content is very, very underwhelming.
If I'm going to live in a world - which, to me, is the ultimate desire to have in an MMO, the world itself has to be compelling.
AA is just not, sorry.
And yet you praise Eso and that game suffers from all the things you claim to dislike about AA. Can anyone really take you seriously or not see this as a stealth troll thread, are you really in alpha if so I'll meet you in game.
But it's key to note that much of that is about me and how I'm exhausted with the MMO genre in general. Also, with each new MMO - they seem to all have their own improvements to the genre that I find myself missing in others.
ArcheAge has an absolutely fantastic feature-set, let me put that out there right now. The amount of stuff you can do is simply amazing and finally seems like an evolution of the old Ultima Online concept that I used to consider the core of the MMO genre.
That has all but faded with the way themeparks completely dominate the genre, and though AA is clearly not a pure sandbox, it's enough of a sandbox to keep that part of me occupied, if I liked the rest of the game.
Sadly, the themepark aspect of AA is extremely underwhelming, and I'm finding the questing dull and uninspired. I despise the way mobs are all over the place - but don't seem to do anything except stand around or walk in very limited patterns. I know it's par for the course for sandboxes - but it takes me out of the game.
Another thing I find very disappointing is the lack of open world dungeons. This game would have been the perfect version of Vanguard - except that it seems to have nothing interesting to find in the open world. Sure, you can find resources to harvest and the occasional rare spawn, but that's about it. What good is an open world without meaningful exploration?
Then there's the art style and overall atmosphere - which I find nauseatingly upbeat and juvenile. I'm not a fan of dark, dark, dark either - as I prefer a balance of moods and atmosphere. But if I'm going to take a world seriously, it has to have compelling lore and plausible characters populating it. Lord of the Rings Online had a fantastic world, for instance.
I'm a big fan of PvP - but this game seems set up to be all about group PvP. I'm not anti-social - but I often prefer to play alone, and I don't enjoy feeling forced to group to enjoy the game. Now, I haven't played it enough to be sure - and it's mostly based on the design that I've been researching. But it doesn't seem like any solo PvP player would be of use and since it's not full loot - there's really nothing much to gain as an incentive. You can loot packs of resources, I guess - but I'd lose that in a second in such a group oriented environment.
Then there's the engine itself, which while clearly capable - is just not working for me when it comes to player created content. Due to the unpredictable nature of player content - the engine has to load it moments before you're upon it, which creates massive pop-ups all over the place. This is jarring and not at all immersive. One advantage of Ultima Online was the tilebased 2D image approach, which meant everything was in memory and rarely "popped up" as such.
The world design is also lacking, based on the ~7-8 areas I've seen so far. Not enough to set them apart - and they seem way too empty and sparsely populated with unique content. The towns are underwhelming and even the biggest ones seem almost pointless except as quest/crafting hubs.
I could go on and I know this is coming off as very negative. I'm sorry about that, and I can only re-iterate what I said at first, that I'm probably just tired of the genre in general.
It has the basic structure of an AMAZING MMO - but the actual content is very, very underwhelming.
If I'm going to live in a world - which, to me, is the ultimate desire to have in an MMO, the world itself has to be compelling.
AA is just not, sorry.
And yet you praise Eso and that game suffers from all the things you claim to dislike about AA. Can anyone really take you seriously or not see this as a stealth troll thread, are you really in alpha if so I'll meet you in game.
Actually, no I don't think ESO suffers from bland quests and a juvenile overly upbeat atmosphere.
It's key not to take my opinion personally.
If this goes down easier believing I haven't played the game, I won't stand in your way. I invest nothing in your trust, frankly.
But it's key to note that much of that is about me and how I'm exhausted with the MMO genre in general. Also, with each new MMO - they seem to all have their own improvements to the genre that I find myself missing in others.
ArcheAge has an absolutely fantastic feature-set, let me put that out there right now. The amount of stuff you can do is simply amazing and finally seems like an evolution of the old Ultima Online concept that I used to consider the core of the MMO genre.
That has all but faded with the way themeparks completely dominate the genre, and though AA is clearly not a pure sandbox, it's enough of a sandbox to keep that part of me occupied, if I liked the rest of the game.
Sadly, the themepark aspect of AA is extremely underwhelming, and I'm finding the questing dull and uninspired. I despise the way mobs are all over the place - but don't seem to do anything except stand around or walk in very limited patterns. I know it's par for the course for sandboxes - but it takes me out of the game.
Another thing I find very disappointing is the lack of open world dungeons. This game would have been the perfect version of Vanguard - except that it seems to have nothing interesting to find in the open world. Sure, you can find resources to harvest and the occasional rare spawn, but that's about it. What good is an open world without meaningful exploration?
Then there's the art style and overall atmosphere - which I find nauseatingly upbeat and juvenile. I'm not a fan of dark, dark, dark either - as I prefer a balance of moods and atmosphere. But if I'm going to take a world seriously, it has to have compelling lore and plausible characters populating it. Lord of the Rings Online had a fantastic world, for instance.
I'm a big fan of PvP - but this game seems set up to be all about group PvP. I'm not anti-social - but I often prefer to play alone, and I don't enjoy feeling forced to group to enjoy the game. Now, I haven't played it enough to be sure - and it's mostly based on the design that I've been researching. But it doesn't seem like any solo PvP player would be of use and since it's not full loot - there's really nothing much to gain as an incentive. You can loot packs of resources, I guess - but I'd lose that in a second in such a group oriented environment.
Then there's the engine itself, which while clearly capable - is just not working for me when it comes to player created content. Due to the unpredictable nature of player content - the engine has to load it moments before you're upon it, which creates massive pop-ups all over the place. This is jarring and not at all immersive. One advantage of Ultima Online was the tilebased 2D image approach, which meant everything was in memory and rarely "popped up" as such.
The world design is also lacking, based on the ~7-8 areas I've seen so far. Not enough to set them apart - and they seem way too empty and sparsely populated with unique content. The towns are underwhelming and even the biggest ones seem almost pointless except as quest/crafting hubs.
I could go on and I know this is coming off as very negative. I'm sorry about that, and I can only re-iterate what I said at first, that I'm probably just tired of the genre in general.
It has the basic structure of an AMAZING MMO - but the actual content is very, very underwhelming.
If I'm going to live in a world - which, to me, is the ultimate desire to have in an MMO, the world itself has to be compelling.
AA is just not, sorry.
And yet you praise Eso and that game suffers from all the things you claim to dislike about AA. Can anyone really take you seriously or not see this as a stealth troll thread, are you really in alpha if so I'll meet you in game.
Translation: "I think you're stupid. Wanna fight?"
OP, some of your views about the game ring true with my own, however, I'm still leaning on sticking with it for now. But as you've said, it's a subjective thing. Unfortunately, some people translate subjective opinions as a direct assault on the size of their member and want to get violent over it. (see above).
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
But it's key to note that much of that is about me and how I'm exhausted with the MMO genre in general.
This is the key sentence from the OP. All the guys that wanna be down on the game will ignore this though in order to seize on the chance to criticise for fun.
If someone recognises that they are burnt out on MMORPGs then I am a bit confused why they would have thought they would enjoy playing another.
I burned out a while back and what I did was to stop MMORPGs for a good long time. AA is my 'come back' game and I am finding it amazing.
OP, take a break, play something else, DO something else. There is no point trudging on in a genre you don't enjoy right now, spreading negativity to to others.
I wouldn't normally say it, but in this case the state of your 'whelmed' can be put 100% down to you and not the title. You are burnt out.
First of all, I don't understand why people confuse expectations with hope.
I don't always try out games because I actually expect them to be the game for me. Since I have a job that pays ok - I have absolutely no problem spending it on a shot like this. My time has always been more valuable than money - and as long as I can put food on the table and have a roof over my head, I don't really care what my money pays for.
No, as much as I understand your conclusion - it's not exclusively about being burned out on the genre.
For instance, I've enjoyed ESO a lot more - and I still like that game even if it's FAR from ideal. This is ironic, because the design structure is pretty far from my ideal MMO concept. Still, the lore and the quests are quite compelling to me.
When I talk about the MMO genre, it's more a general kind of traditional design I'm talking about. My problem with ArcheAge has to do with it being extremely traditional in certain key areas - where I was HOPING (not expecting) for more.
But, it's very true that me having played MMOs since 1997 and games since 1981 has created a certain fatigue when it comes to the traditional.
That's all well and fine, but your initial honest statement I first quoted would invalidate any opinion you have right now for me, about any game.
I am not trying to be nasty or offend, but that's just how it is.
But it's key to note that much of that is about me and how I'm exhausted with the MMO genre in general. Also, with each new MMO - they seem to all have their own improvements to the genre that I find myself missing in others.
ArcheAge has an absolutely fantastic feature-set, let me put that out there right now. The amount of stuff you can do is simply amazing and finally seems like an evolution of the old Ultima Online concept that I used to consider the core of the MMO genre.
That has all but faded with the way themeparks completely dominate the genre, and though AA is clearly not a pure sandbox, it's enough of a sandbox to keep that part of me occupied, if I liked the rest of the game.
Sadly, the themepark aspect of AA is extremely underwhelming, and I'm finding the questing dull and uninspired. I despise the way mobs are all over the place - but don't seem to do anything except stand around or walk in very limited patterns. I know it's par for the course for sandboxes - but it takes me out of the game.
Another thing I find very disappointing is the lack of open world dungeons. This game would have been the perfect version of Vanguard - except that it seems to have nothing interesting to find in the open world. Sure, you can find resources to harvest and the occasional rare spawn, but that's about it. What good is an open world without meaningful exploration?
Then there's the art style and overall atmosphere - which I find nauseatingly upbeat and juvenile. I'm not a fan of dark, dark, dark either - as I prefer a balance of moods and atmosphere. But if I'm going to take a world seriously, it has to have compelling lore and plausible characters populating it. Lord of the Rings Online had a fantastic world, for instance.
I'm a big fan of PvP - but this game seems set up to be all about group PvP. I'm not anti-social - but I often prefer to play alone, and I don't enjoy feeling forced to group to enjoy the game. Now, I haven't played it enough to be sure - and it's mostly based on the design that I've been researching. But it doesn't seem like any solo PvP player would be of use and since it's not full loot - there's really nothing much to gain as an incentive. You can loot packs of resources, I guess - but I'd lose that in a second in such a group oriented environment.
Then there's the engine itself, which while clearly capable - is just not working for me when it comes to player created content. Due to the unpredictable nature of player content - the engine has to load it moments before you're upon it, which creates massive pop-ups all over the place. This is jarring and not at all immersive. One advantage of Ultima Online was the tilebased 2D image approach, which meant everything was in memory and rarely "popped up" as such.
The world design is also lacking, based on the ~7-8 areas I've seen so far. Not enough to set them apart - and they seem way too empty and sparsely populated with unique content. The towns are underwhelming and even the biggest ones seem almost pointless except as quest/crafting hubs.
I could go on and I know this is coming off as very negative. I'm sorry about that, and I can only re-iterate what I said at first, that I'm probably just tired of the genre in general.
It has the basic structure of an AMAZING MMO - but the actual content is very, very underwhelming.
If I'm going to live in a world - which, to me, is the ultimate desire to have in an MMO, the world itself has to be compelling.
AA is just not, sorry.
And yet you praise Eso and that game suffers from all the things you claim to dislike about AA. Can anyone really take you seriously or not see this as a stealth troll thread, are you really in alpha if so I'll meet you in game.
Actually, no I don't think ESO suffers from bland quests and a juvenile overly upbeat atmosphere.
It's key not to take my opinion personally.
If this goes down easier believing I haven't played the game, I won't stand in your way. I invest nothing in your trust, frankly.
You last post in ESO forums explains how you like the game but have cancelled your 3 month sub until they sort out the EU servers. Funny how people forget what they have posted before.
But it's key to note that much of that is about me and how I'm exhausted with the MMO genre in general.
This is the key sentence from the OP. All the guys that wanna be down on the game will ignore this though in order to seize on the chance to criticise for fun.
If someone recognises that they are burnt out on MMORPGs then I am a bit confused why they would have thought they would enjoy playing another.
I burned out a while back and what I did was to stop MMORPGs for a good long time. AA is my 'come back' game and I am finding it amazing.
OP, take a break, play something else, DO something else. There is no point trudging on in a genre you don't enjoy right now, spreading negativity to to others.
I wouldn't normally say it, but in this case the state of your 'whelmed' can be put 100% down to you and not the title. You are burnt out.
First of all, I don't understand why people confuse expectations with hope.
I don't always try out games because I actually expect them to be the game for me. Since I have a job that pays ok - I have absolutely no problem spending it on a shot like this. My time has always been more valuable than money - and as long as I can put food on the table and have a roof over my head, I don't really care what my money pays for.
No, as much as I understand your conclusion - it's not exclusively about being burned out on the genre.
For instance, I've enjoyed ESO a lot more - and I still like that game even if it's FAR from ideal. This is ironic, because the design structure is pretty far from my ideal MMO concept. Still, the lore and the quests are quite compelling to me.
When I talk about the MMO genre, it's more a general kind of traditional design I'm talking about. My problem with ArcheAge has to do with it being extremely traditional in certain key areas - where I was HOPING (not expecting) for more.
But, it's very true that me having played MMOs since 1997 and games since 1981 has created a certain fatigue when it comes to the traditional.
That's all well and fine, but your initial honest statement I first quoted would invalidate any opinion you have right now for me, about any game.
I am not trying to be nasty or offend, but that's just how it is.
I'm not interpreting your words as nasty at all
I have absolutely no problem with you considering my clarified opinion worthless. It's not that I tell myself it's fantastic or anything.
The only thing I will say, though, is that every single word of mine in this thread has been 100% honest. But if you don't believe that, that's definitely your right!
I also have no assumptions about why you hold your position, but I will say that it's best not to let an emotional investment in a game being good overshadow your ability to perceive potential flaws.
Reason being that disappointment can be a powerful emotion, and sometimes much worse than realistic expectations when meeting the game for yourself.
But that's just my position, and again, I'm completely ok with you considering it worthless.
OP thinks ESO is fun and exciting. I found that game to be the most boring gaming of my life. Likely that our tastes are so different that his review will not apply to many people. From what I've seen about AA it still needs quite a bit of work on the late game PvP siege (one of the main reasons to play the game imo). I'm just happy the game offers a bit more freedom than your standard themepark.
But it's key to note that much of that is about me and how I'm exhausted with the MMO genre in general. Also, with each new MMO - they seem to all have their own improvements to the genre that I find myself missing in others.
ArcheAge has an absolutely fantastic feature-set, let me put that out there right now. The amount of stuff you can do is simply amazing and finally seems like an evolution of the old Ultima Online concept that I used to consider the core of the MMO genre.
That has all but faded with the way themeparks completely dominate the genre, and though AA is clearly not a pure sandbox, it's enough of a sandbox to keep that part of me occupied, if I liked the rest of the game.
Sadly, the themepark aspect of AA is extremely underwhelming, and I'm finding the questing dull and uninspired. I despise the way mobs are all over the place - but don't seem to do anything except stand around or walk in very limited patterns. I know it's par for the course for sandboxes - but it takes me out of the game.
Another thing I find very disappointing is the lack of open world dungeons. This game would have been the perfect version of Vanguard - except that it seems to have nothing interesting to find in the open world. Sure, you can find resources to harvest and the occasional rare spawn, but that's about it. What good is an open world without meaningful exploration?
Then there's the art style and overall atmosphere - which I find nauseatingly upbeat and juvenile. I'm not a fan of dark, dark, dark either - as I prefer a balance of moods and atmosphere. But if I'm going to take a world seriously, it has to have compelling lore and plausible characters populating it. Lord of the Rings Online had a fantastic world, for instance.
I'm a big fan of PvP - but this game seems set up to be all about group PvP. I'm not anti-social - but I often prefer to play alone, and I don't enjoy feeling forced to group to enjoy the game. Now, I haven't played it enough to be sure - and it's mostly based on the design that I've been researching. But it doesn't seem like any solo PvP player would be of use and since it's not full loot - there's really nothing much to gain as an incentive. You can loot packs of resources, I guess - but I'd lose that in a second in such a group oriented environment.
Then there's the engine itself, which while clearly capable - is just not working for me when it comes to player created content. Due to the unpredictable nature of player content - the engine has to load it moments before you're upon it, which creates massive pop-ups all over the place. This is jarring and not at all immersive. One advantage of Ultima Online was the tilebased 2D image approach, which meant everything was in memory and rarely "popped up" as such.
The world design is also lacking, based on the ~7-8 areas I've seen so far. Not enough to set them apart - and they seem way too empty and sparsely populated with unique content. The towns are underwhelming and even the biggest ones seem almost pointless except as quest/crafting hubs.
I could go on and I know this is coming off as very negative. I'm sorry about that, and I can only re-iterate what I said at first, that I'm probably just tired of the genre in general.
It has the basic structure of an AMAZING MMO - but the actual content is very, very underwhelming.
If I'm going to live in a world - which, to me, is the ultimate desire to have in an MMO, the world itself has to be compelling.
AA is just not, sorry.
And yet you praise Eso and that game suffers from all the things you claim to dislike about AA. Can anyone really take you seriously or not see this as a stealth troll thread, are you really in alpha if so I'll meet you in game.
Actually, no I don't think ESO suffers from bland quests and a juvenile overly upbeat atmosphere.
It's key not to take my opinion personally.
If this goes down easier believing I haven't played the game, I won't stand in your way. I invest nothing in your trust, frankly.
You last post in ESO forums explains how you like the game but have cancelled your 3 month sub until they sort out the EU servers. Funny how people forget what they have posted before.
Your point being? I like the game - and I will definitely keep playing it. But I won't suffer lag needlessly.
I am loving the game but I also agree with the part about open world dungeons. The only thing I really don't like about the game are the markers above objects and peoples head.
Originally posted by Jockan I am loving the game but I also agree with the part about open world dungeons. The only thing I really don't like about the game are the markers above objects and peoples head.
Good point. I forgot about the quest/interaction markers. One might consider them a minor thing, but they're actually the perfect example of the juvenile and non-immersive atmosphere I was trying to get across.
If I'm going to live in a world - which, to me, is the ultimate desire to have in an MMO, the world itself has to be compelling.
AA is just not, sorry.
What you should say is that " Its not " .. for you. because it is for me .
That would be redundant. My entire post is obviously subjective - and I'm very happy other people are enjoying it. I'm not the sort of person who derives pleasure from the misery of other people.
The fact is , is that you stated it is not compelling , you didn't state that it was not compelling for you. thereby implying that it is not compelling for others , It is however compelling for and I'm sure many others. Perhaps you should make it a little clearer.
Perhaps you should have worded the end of your post as such " AA is just not compelling .. " for me " .. sorry "
If I'm going to live in a world - which, to me, is the ultimate desire to have in an MMO, the world itself has to be compelling.
AA is just not, sorry.
What you should say is that " Its not " .. for you. because it is for me .
That would be redundant. My entire post is obviously subjective - and I'm very happy other people are enjoying it. I'm not the sort of person who derives pleasure from the misery of other people.
The fact is , is that you stated it is not compelling , you didn't state that it was not compelling for you. thereby implying that it is not compelling for others , It is however compelling for and I'm sure many others. Perhaps you should make it a little clearer.
Perhaps you should have worded the end of your post as such " AA is just not compelling .. " for me " .. sorry "
I'll say this once more, and then I'll let it rest. It would be redundant. I consider it extremely obvious that I'm talking about my opinion - and that there's no way I can decide for other people what their opinion might be.
I have no idea why you're confused about this, and if you still don't understand I'm talking about my opinion exclusively - then there's little I can do. Certainly nothing I'm going to do
If I'm going to live in a world - which, to me, is the ultimate desire to have in an MMO, the world itself has to be compelling.
AA is just not, sorry.
What you should say is that " Its not " .. for you. because it is for me .
That would be redundant. My entire post is obviously subjective - and I'm very happy other people are enjoying it. I'm not the sort of person who derives pleasure from the misery of other people.
The fact is , is that you stated it is not compelling , you didn't state that it was not compelling for you. thereby implying that it is not compelling for others , It is however compelling for and I'm sure many others. Perhaps you should make it a little clearer.
Perhaps you should have worded the end of your post as such " AA is just not compelling .. " for me " .. sorry "
I'll say this once more, and then I'll let it rest. It would be redundant. I consider it extremely obvious that I'm talking about my opinion - and that there's no way I can decide for other people what their opinion might be.
I have no idea why you're confused about this, and if you still don't understand I'm talking about my opinion exclusively - then there's little I can do. Certainly nothing I'm going to do
And I can not see what is really quite simple for you to understand. So yes we'll let it rest , and there really is no need to be arrogant about it is there.
Originally posted by SuperNick Looked like a mediocre Korean MMO when I first seen screenshots and continues to do so. It's had average (at best) success in Asian countries and just gets more dated with every day they hold back the release in the West.Every company out there can spin a good story and sell you something that isn't true. NESTalgia brags what sounds like incredible features but lets be honest, it's NES graphics online.That is to say AA is a game that looks to have incredible ideas which don't even come close to delivering and probably never will.
Originally posted by Jockan I am loving the game but I also agree with the part about open world dungeons. The only thing I really don't like about the game are the markers above objects and peoples head.
Originally posted by SuperNick Looked like a mediocre Korean MMO when I first seen screenshots and continues to do so. It's had average (at best) success in Asian countries and just gets more dated with every day they hold back the release in the West.
Every company out there can spin a good story and sell you something that isn't true. NESTalgia brags what sounds like incredible features but lets be honest, it's NES graphics online.
That is to say AA is a game that looks to have incredible ideas which don't even come close to delivering and probably never will.
Pretty much spot on.
Judging an MMO by screenshots is worse then judging a book by it's cover, and i wouldn't trust that judgement at all.
Originally posted by An4thor Judging an MMO by screenshots is worse then judging a book by it's cover, and i wouldn't trust that judgement at all.Just my 2 cents.
I understand that and that is probably why there is a hype about the game - people judge the game without actually playing it.
My judgement is based on russian version of the game though so I have first hand experience.
Originally posted by SuperNick Looked like a mediocre Korean MMO when I first seen screenshots and continues to do so. It's had average (at best) success in Asian countries and just gets more dated with every day they hold back the release in the West.
Every company out there can spin a good story and sell you something that isn't true. NESTalgia brags what sounds like incredible features but lets be honest, it's NES graphics online.
That is to say AA is a game that looks to have incredible ideas which don't even come close to delivering and probably never will.
Pretty much spot on.
Judging an MMO by screenshots is worse then judging a book by it's cover, and i wouldn't trust that judgement at all.
Just my 2 cents.
Yes it is infuriating reading some of the BS posts from people that have not even played the game , its running Cry engine 3 and my experience playing the game so far has been pretty sweet. Also statements like "Nes Graphics online " smell very much like troll bait to me.
As can be seen by the numerous posts in reply to the OP, fans take any criticism of their game personally and need to lash out and attack, often the poster himself/herself. I agree it is absurd but most here have become used to it. I thank you for your opinion after playing the game. I feel the more opinions we collect the more others have a chance to decide if it is a game for them or not. Good luck finding something you will embrace in the future!
Wow, I have to admit the amount of people that wanna nitpick what the OP wrote as well as fight over HIS opinion. I would suggest anyone who has an issue with it, make your own review so we can read what you think, the more reviews the community has, the easier other players can decide whether its a game to try or not.
I have been waiting for this game since last summer when I was playing Age of Wushu. I have to admit, I have stated here and on other boards, that I am very apprehensive on this game since the inclusion of all these themepark features. Especially with the OP meantioning the icons over peoples heads and especially all the quests. I was hoping for something more akin to the Age of Wushu type game, where quests were more of a sought after activity rather then the main leveling option.
Then again those were hopes and we all know, especially in games, that hopes are never what ya get. I am definitely wrried for the state of this game, but I am still excited to try, just not $150 excited. I suppose I will try for open beta whenever that happens, but still worried that it is getting WAY to themeparkish, but time will tell at this point.
If they could add in anything that would help me get excited about the game, OW Dungeons would be a good one, or remove a portion of the quests, best things I can think of, but hard to say on quests till I really get my hands on it.
Good Review, I know how ya feel with todays MMO's OP.
Op's review is ok I guess , but he states himself that he is tired of the genre at the moment a couple of times. So this tiredness and frustration with the Mmo genre comes across a little too much in the review. Perhaps the OP could do with a break from mmo's for awhile happens to most players at some point.
But it's key to note that much of that is about me and how I'm exhausted with the MMO genre in general.
This is the key sentence from the OP. All the guys that wanna be down on the game will ignore this though in order to seize on the chance to criticise for fun.
If someone recognises that they are burnt out on MMORPGs then I am a bit confused why they would have thought they would enjoy playing another.
I burned out a while back and what I did was to stop MMORPGs for a good long time. AA is my 'come back' game and I am finding it amazing.
OP, take a break, play something else, DO something else. There is no point trudging on in a genre you don't enjoy right now, spreading negativity to to others.
I wouldn't normally say it, but in this case the state of your 'whelmed' can be put 100% down to you and not the title. You are burnt out.
First of all, I don't understand why people confuse expectations with hope.
I don't always try out games because I actually expect them to be the game for me. Since I have a job that pays ok - I have absolutely no problem spending it on a shot like this. My time has always been more valuable than money - and as long as I can put food on the table and have a roof over my head, I don't really care what my money pays for.
No, as much as I understand your conclusion - it's not exclusively about being burned out on the genre.
For instance, I've enjoyed ESO a lot more - and I still like that game even if it's FAR from ideal. This is ironic, because the design structure is pretty far from my ideal MMO concept. Still, the lore and the quests are quite compelling to me.
When I talk about the MMO genre, it's more a general kind of traditional design I'm talking about. My problem with ArcheAge has to do with it being extremely traditional in certain key areas - where I was HOPING (not expecting) for more.
But, it's very true that me having played MMOs since 1997 and games since 1981 has created a certain fatigue when it comes to the traditional.
That's all well and fine, but your initial honest statement I first quoted would invalidate any opinion you have right now for me, about any game.
I am not trying to be nasty or offend, but that's just how it is.
I'm not interpreting your words as nasty at all
I have absolutely no problem with you considering my clarified opinion worthless. It's not that I tell myself it's fantastic or anything.
The only thing I will say, though, is that every single word of mine in this thread has been 100% honest. But if you don't believe that, that's definitely your right!
I also have no assumptions about why you hold your position, but I will say that it's best not to let an emotional investment in a game being good overshadow your ability to perceive potential flaws.
Reason being that disappointment can be a powerful emotion, and sometimes much worse than realistic expectations when meeting the game for yourself.
But that's just my position, and again, I'm completely ok with you considering it worthless.
I have no doubt that you honestly feel the way that you do, I guess my problem is why you feel like you do (burn out). It just isn't a great place to be giving opinions on anything from.
You admit you haven't played that much, you admit you are jaded with the genre in general. These things devalue your opinions.
I have no emotional investment in any MMORPG, past whether I find it fun or not. It just happens I do find AA a ton of fun.
For what it's worth, I do actually agree that AA's questing is generic. But luckily structured PvE is not the focus of the game and it does a perfectly acceptable job leading the player around, showing him the different areas, and the location of level appropriate mobs. The grand beauty of the experience is not defined by this journey though.
Unlike you though, I am growing to enjoy the world a lot, the more I spend my time in it the better it gets.
Comments
The themepark stuff is not a tutorial for the sandbox part of the game. That is an excuse people use to dismiss the fact the quest lines are boring, unimaginative regurgitated crap. It's there to level. Can you level without doing the themepark quest lines? Sure! If you want to take 3 years to do it because of LP limitations. While some early quests, and one or two random quests during the climb to 50 do explain certain features in game (ala crafting, or example of jury quests) the themepark quest grind is there to level, not as just a tutorial.
Also, quit nitpicking the guy because he doesn't agree with your assessment of the game, the way you come off, like you are trying to make him "wrong" is lame and exactly the type of fanboyism that people are talking about. If you can't acknowledge the faults of the game, how would it ever improve? Its lame that you took a statement he made about having open world dungeons adding flavor to the feel of the world, and tried to rebuttal it with "oh, well you can plant stuff in hidden corners, and get tears for finding secrets"
As for the third point, I didn't feel he was condemning the whole 3D genre as a whole, but instead Archeages limited close range draw problem that is not only listed on this forum in multiple places, but all over any Archeage forum you go to. Almost every user that has posted has agreed that if there is one huge issue with the engine, its the draw method they use of streaming in textures on the fly causing you to have issues where things pop in all around you. As the OP mentioned he understands why they went this route, because of the player additions to cloaks/houses/sails, but he wasn't happy with it. How is that talking down about the whole 3d genre? Why, because he mentioned another game that had this type of player additions went the 2d route?
You do it again with your last statement. He isn't saying he doesn't want a sandbox, he is saying that he doesn't want an open world sandbox where the only real thing across the landscape is large housing areas of the same house replicated over and over again in thrown in system. At least with SWG the player house was made into cities that had reasons to go to them over others. Archeage doesn't. Its random, no house has any reason for you to check it out other the others unless your family owns it and has access to a crafting station you don't... There isn't enough sandbox items and decorations to make each house unique so instead you get loads of "suburbs" with mcmansions.
All in all I think he was pretty damn easy to understand, and fair. The only way you could have a problem or be confused with what he said is if you WANT to be so you don't have to acknowledge what he said are areas that Archeage could improve on dramatically. OP good post, and I agree with most of it. Although it took me a 50 in KR, and in RU before I realized Archeage was kinda like eve for me. Really fun to talk about, not as fun to play.
The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness Bob Marley
I would actually argue that, at least for the first 30 levels, the quests ARE very much a tutorial for the game's sandbox elements. That might be quests that lead you into a little fighting, a little interacting with the world, some farming, whatever. But so far that's pretty well the meta role that they serve.
Personally, I think that the delivery of the quests is pretty dry, and I think they could be worked in the world in a much better way. It's obviously not the focus of the game and I agree they could/should be improved a lot. But, beyond those quests, there is a definitely a ton of stuff to explore and do. It's a very, very interesting game, and holy crap is it ever a time consuming one
If you're going to play this, expect to use all over your free time.
My take on AA so far is that it has 3 main points of focus:
1. Crafting
2. Trade (as in: running trade missions/routes)
3. PvP (in various forms, but particularly as an activity to disrupt trade)
The quests seem to take a sideline and, though you do a lot of them, they feel like they're there to teach you the mechanics, or they're just an extra activity while you're doing those above 3 things. Dungeons feel like the same thing, a side activity put in for variety.
Just my impressions of course, your mileage may vary.
Looked like a mediocre Korean MMO when I first seen screenshots and continues to do so. It's had average (at best) success in Asian countries and just gets more dated with every day they hold back the release in the West.
Every company out there can spin a good story and sell you something that isn't true. NESTalgia brags what sounds like incredible features but lets be honest, it's NES graphics online.
That is to say AA is a game that looks to have incredible ideas which don't even come close to delivering and probably never will.
And yet you praise Eso and that game suffers from all the things you claim to dislike about AA. Can anyone really take you seriously or not see this as a stealth troll thread, are you really in alpha if so I'll meet you in game.
Actually, no I don't think ESO suffers from bland quests and a juvenile overly upbeat atmosphere.
It's key not to take my opinion personally.
If this goes down easier believing I haven't played the game, I won't stand in your way. I invest nothing in your trust, frankly.
Translation: "I think you're stupid. Wanna fight?"
OP, some of your views about the game ring true with my own, however, I'm still leaning on sticking with it for now. But as you've said, it's a subjective thing. Unfortunately, some people translate subjective opinions as a direct assault on the size of their member and want to get violent over it. (see above).
"You'll never win an argument with an idiot because he is too stupid to recognize his own defeat." ~Anonymous
That's all well and fine, but your initial honest statement I first quoted would invalidate any opinion you have right now for me, about any game.
I am not trying to be nasty or offend, but that's just how it is.
You last post in ESO forums explains how you like the game but have cancelled your 3 month sub until they sort out the EU servers. Funny how people forget what they have posted before.
I'm not interpreting your words as nasty at all
I have absolutely no problem with you considering my clarified opinion worthless. It's not that I tell myself it's fantastic or anything.
The only thing I will say, though, is that every single word of mine in this thread has been 100% honest. But if you don't believe that, that's definitely your right!
I also have no assumptions about why you hold your position, but I will say that it's best not to let an emotional investment in a game being good overshadow your ability to perceive potential flaws.
Reason being that disappointment can be a powerful emotion, and sometimes much worse than realistic expectations when meeting the game for yourself.
But that's just my position, and again, I'm completely ok with you considering it worthless.
Good point. I forgot about the quest/interaction markers. One might consider them a minor thing, but they're actually the perfect example of the juvenile and non-immersive atmosphere I was trying to get across.
The fact is , is that you stated it is not compelling , you didn't state that it was not compelling for you. thereby implying that it is not compelling for others , It is however compelling for and I'm sure many others. Perhaps you should make it a little clearer.
Perhaps you should have worded the end of your post as such " AA is just not compelling .. " for me " .. sorry "
I'll say this once more, and then I'll let it rest. It would be redundant. I consider it extremely obvious that I'm talking about my opinion - and that there's no way I can decide for other people what their opinion might be.
I have no idea why you're confused about this, and if you still don't understand I'm talking about my opinion exclusively - then there's little I can do. Certainly nothing I'm going to do
And I can not see what is really quite simple for you to understand. So yes we'll let it rest , and there really is no need to be arrogant about it is there.
Pretty much spot on.
Yes, so much this.
Judging an MMO by screenshots is worse then judging a book by it's cover, and i wouldn't trust that judgement at all.
Just my 2 cents.
I understand that and that is probably why there is a hype about the game - people judge the game without actually playing it.
My judgement is based on russian version of the game though so I have first hand experience.
Yes it is infuriating reading some of the BS posts from people that have not even played the game , its running Cry engine 3 and my experience playing the game so far has been pretty sweet. Also statements like "Nes Graphics online " smell very much like troll bait to me.
Wow, I have to admit the amount of people that wanna nitpick what the OP wrote as well as fight over HIS opinion. I would suggest anyone who has an issue with it, make your own review so we can read what you think, the more reviews the community has, the easier other players can decide whether its a game to try or not.
I have been waiting for this game since last summer when I was playing Age of Wushu. I have to admit, I have stated here and on other boards, that I am very apprehensive on this game since the inclusion of all these themepark features. Especially with the OP meantioning the icons over peoples heads and especially all the quests. I was hoping for something more akin to the Age of Wushu type game, where quests were more of a sought after activity rather then the main leveling option.
Then again those were hopes and we all know, especially in games, that hopes are never what ya get. I am definitely wrried for the state of this game, but I am still excited to try, just not $150 excited. I suppose I will try for open beta whenever that happens, but still worried that it is getting WAY to themeparkish, but time will tell at this point.
If they could add in anything that would help me get excited about the game, OW Dungeons would be a good one, or remove a portion of the quests, best things I can think of, but hard to say on quests till I really get my hands on it.
Good Review, I know how ya feel with todays MMO's OP.
Op's review is ok I guess , but he states himself that he is tired of the genre at the moment a couple of times. So this tiredness and frustration with the Mmo genre comes across a little too much in the review. Perhaps the OP could do with a break from mmo's for awhile happens to most players at some point.
Just my 2 cents
I have no doubt that you honestly feel the way that you do, I guess my problem is why you feel like you do (burn out). It just isn't a great place to be giving opinions on anything from.
You admit you haven't played that much, you admit you are jaded with the genre in general. These things devalue your opinions.
I have no emotional investment in any MMORPG, past whether I find it fun or not. It just happens I do find AA a ton of fun.
For what it's worth, I do actually agree that AA's questing is generic. But luckily structured PvE is not the focus of the game and it does a perfectly acceptable job leading the player around, showing him the different areas, and the location of level appropriate mobs. The grand beauty of the experience is not defined by this journey though.
Unlike you though, I am growing to enjoy the world a lot, the more I spend my time in it the better it gets.