Just add the IWIN option to the screen... player clicks it, their account is charged $1000 and they are instantly given all the best items and everything in game... within about 5 minutes of bragging online about it, the character is turned to stone and a plaque is placed before them stating "Herein lies the greatest MMO player ever".
Finally real proof that you did it all and finished the game.
Depends on the game, but if we are talking strictly from a monetary stand point, safety will win every time. If we are talking about raising the bar or doing something different, then Freedom wins out obviously. This isn't really a fair question as it depends from game to game.
Another thing to take into account: Forced freedom isn't freedom. So it really depends on the game and what crowd they are looking at appealing to.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV Have played: You name it If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Safety is a kinda fuzzy word, do you mean limited PvP, easy PvE or what?
Freedom is of course importanbut I am not sure full loot MMO and it's current form is so much about freedom or realism. Since you can carry loads of stuff in them it usually means that a zerg can go and kill small groups of players and carry loads of stuff from a whole bunch of killed noobs.
I rather think risk Vs reward is more important here, Zerg ganking ain't particularly risky unless you meet an even larger zerg so the reward for that should be rather slim.Defeating a player with better stats and gear in one on one on the other hand is very risky and should be rewarded as such. And if that limits the freedom (meaning that you could loot less when you zerg) then that is fine by me.
And of course the same thing goes for PvE, the harder the greater reward.
Ganking a noob with an experienced and well equipped character have zero risk in most MMOs and should be rewarded as such.
It is taking risks and defeating hard opponents that makes a game worth playing anyways.
Originally posted by maccarthur2004 "They who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety"Benjamim Franklin
And Benjamin later went on to form all kinds of laws that limit freedoms. Nice words. Hard to practice.I voted "Safety", which I doubt surprises anyone. Player online have shown time and time again that they CAN NOT behave themselves. Because of these few, the rest have to suffer with limited Freedoms.I'd prefer freedom over safety. I just can not trust others to act accordingly.
This becomes an interesting topic in behavioral science. Do laws prevent crime? Or are they there just to punish? It's already been settled that law enforcement agencies are not there to protect the people, they clean up the mess.I think it's more interesting if the game lets you break the law but punishes in return. A little simulated danger is fun, after all we are still playing a game.
Well, the "theory" behind law making is deterring crimes, not preventing them. Instead of 100 people robbing banks, hopefully (and that is the key word) only 50 will do so. The hope is that some people will think twice about what they are doing.
Law enforcement is in a sticky mess. They reactionary only (thankfully). They can not "prevent" crimes, only react after the crimes have been committed.
If there were game systems in place to punish law breakers, I would be all for players being able to break the law. Rarely do you see this, though
Can you just imagine the outrage if there was a system for, say... theft. Steal something, get 1 week in jail, ie: Can not play for 1 week. Now, tack on a sub fee and players would be triply outraged
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I'm not a huge fan of open world PvP. My favorite PvP is the having the option to dual someone else.
I don't like the PvE quests in today's games. There is generally only one way to play. That way is how the developer wants you to play the game. It becomes monotonous fairly quickly having to do a lot of quests that are fairly easy to do. It would be nice to see an MMO like Dark Souls where it's more about trying different areas to see what you can handle and what you need to do to unlock different pathways. It's nice having a game that doesn't lead you around from one safe point to the next safe point.
There seems to be more and more rules piling up these days overall. In games this results in simpler play, but in real life it makes things a lot more complicated.
I think many people will have different views of "Freedom", however, since you listed safety as the other option, I think we can out on a limb and just say this is another "open world pvp" vs "non-pvp" thread.
However, if you mean the Freedom to build, be creative, not be railroaded into cookie cutter builds by Devs/Designers, to explore a game at a pace of one's own choosing, to not have every choice made for me, to not be limited by the idiotic notions of "balance", or to not be railroaded into some "trinity class"...Then yes, I would pick Freedom every time.
However, I am not a huge fan of any open world PVP game I have encountered yet, as they have resulted in nothing more than gankfests and/or zerg balls where the only thing that matters is numbers. I'd much rather prefer a game with a flag (with timer) that you turn on or off for open world PVP so people of both ideals can both have their options and enjoy the game equally and not be forced into one choice or the other.
Anything forced upon players is not Freedom to me.
If we take a look at Darkfall or Eve, are players free to do what they wish? Not really. Gather resources in the wrong area or just go some place alone and you are likely to end up dead, with no supplies left to your name because other players have decided that you are not free to do as you wish. The idea that games that allow this to happen are providing "freedom" is false.
What games are providing is a rule set that the players like. There is no more freedom in Eve than there is in WoW. Players are doing what they want and the experience of "freedom" is the same in either game for different players. It just depends on which set of rules a person wants to follow.
By that logic, Im not free in WoW either, because I cannot slay the Demonic Dragon of Doom before I reach max lvl, hence im not "free to do as I wish" either...
Freedom? To build the class I want? To gain exp how I want? To attack who I want without consequence? To ruin the game for others?
The first two should be staples, the last two are game ruiners
Safety? From making a bad class build? From wandering high level NPCs? From griefing asshats?
again, the first two are bad, the last one is good.
A well made MMORPG has very high freedom in terms of game mechanics, environment, PvE, crafting. And safety, if desired, against the 1% of other players that are out to ruin their game. However you should always have the choice to remove that safety.
So then Freedom is the clear winner, but not for the reasons the OP is trying to get it.
Anything forced upon players is not Freedom to me.
If we take a look at Darkfall or Eve, are players free to do what they wish? Not really. Gather resources in the wrong area or just go some place alone and you are likely to end up dead, with no supplies left to your name because other players have decided that you are not free to do as you wish. The idea that games that allow this to happen are providing "freedom" is false.
What games are providing is a rule set that the players like. There is no more freedom in Eve than there is in WoW. Players are doing what they want and the experience of "freedom" is the same in either game for different players. It just depends on which set of rules a person wants to follow.
By that logic, Im not free in WoW either, because I cannot slay the Demonic Dragon of Doom before I reach max lvl, hence im not "free to do as I wish" either...
"Freedom" as people have defined it on these forums is the freedom to play the game they wish, without regard to other players. The only real freedom gamers have is in picking the games they want to play. WoW does not provide "freedom" to the player who does not enjoy the rule sets within WoW and Eve does not provide "freedom" to the player who does not enjoy the rule sets within Eve.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Neither option really works for me but I chose freedom, simply because I want to be able to decide when to put myself in danger, I don't want to have danger imposed on me against my will. If I want to go fight a mob, it's my choice to enter into a dangerous situation,, not the choice of some ganker running around the game picking people off at random.
As has been pointed out, both freedom and safety are necessary and we trade some of one for some of the other all the time, as it should be.
Neither option really works for me but I chose freedom, simply because I want to be able to decide when to put myself in danger, I don't want to have danger imposed on me against my will. If I want to go fight a mob, it's my choice to enter into a dangerous situation,, not the choice of some ganker running around the game picking people off at random.
As has been pointed out, both freedom and safety are necessary and we trade some of one for some of the other all the time, as it should be.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Comments
Just add the IWIN option to the screen... player clicks it, their account is charged $1000 and they are instantly given all the best items and everything in game... within about 5 minutes of bragging online about it, the character is turned to stone and a plaque is placed before them stating "Herein lies the greatest MMO player ever".
Finally real proof that you did it all and finished the game.
Depends on the game, but if we are talking strictly from a monetary stand point, safety will win every time. If we are talking about raising the bar or doing something different, then Freedom wins out obviously. This isn't really a fair question as it depends from game to game.
Another thing to take into account: Forced freedom isn't freedom. So it really depends on the game and what crowd they are looking at appealing to.
Currently Playing: ESO and FFXIV
Have played: You name it
If you mention rose tinted glasses, you better be referring to Mitch Hedberg.
Safety is a kinda fuzzy word, do you mean limited PvP, easy PvE or what?
Freedom is of course importanbut I am not sure full loot MMO and it's current form is so much about freedom or realism. Since you can carry loads of stuff in them it usually means that a zerg can go and kill small groups of players and carry loads of stuff from a whole bunch of killed noobs.
I rather think risk Vs reward is more important here, Zerg ganking ain't particularly risky unless you meet an even larger zerg so the reward for that should be rather slim.Defeating a player with better stats and gear in one on one on the other hand is very risky and should be rewarded as such. And if that limits the freedom (meaning that you could loot less when you zerg) then that is fine by me.
And of course the same thing goes for PvE, the harder the greater reward.
Ganking a noob with an experienced and well equipped character have zero risk in most MMOs and should be rewarded as such.
It is taking risks and defeating hard opponents that makes a game worth playing anyways.
Law enforcement is in a sticky mess. They reactionary only (thankfully). They can not "prevent" crimes, only react after the crimes have been committed.
If there were game systems in place to punish law breakers, I would be all for players being able to break the law. Rarely do you see this, though
Can you just imagine the outrage if there was a system for, say... theft. Steal something, get 1 week in jail, ie: Can not play for 1 week. Now, tack on a sub fee and players would be triply outraged
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
It depends on the people and the environment.
I'm not a huge fan of open world PvP. My favorite PvP is the having the option to dual someone else.
I don't like the PvE quests in today's games. There is generally only one way to play. That way is how the developer wants you to play the game. It becomes monotonous fairly quickly having to do a lot of quests that are fairly easy to do. It would be nice to see an MMO like Dark Souls where it's more about trying different areas to see what you can handle and what you need to do to unlock different pathways. It's nice having a game that doesn't lead you around from one safe point to the next safe point.
There seems to be more and more rules piling up these days overall. In games this results in simpler play, but in real life it makes things a lot more complicated.
I think many people will have different views of "Freedom", however, since you listed safety as the other option, I think we can out on a limb and just say this is another "open world pvp" vs "non-pvp" thread.
However, if you mean the Freedom to build, be creative, not be railroaded into cookie cutter builds by Devs/Designers, to explore a game at a pace of one's own choosing, to not have every choice made for me, to not be limited by the idiotic notions of "balance", or to not be railroaded into some "trinity class"...Then yes, I would pick Freedom every time.
However, I am not a huge fan of any open world PVP game I have encountered yet, as they have resulted in nothing more than gankfests and/or zerg balls where the only thing that matters is numbers. I'd much rather prefer a game with a flag (with timer) that you turn on or off for open world PVP so people of both ideals can both have their options and enjoy the game equally and not be forced into one choice or the other.
~I am Many~
By that logic, Im not free in WoW either, because I cannot slay the Demonic Dragon of Doom before I reach max lvl, hence im not "free to do as I wish" either...
Freedom? To build the class I want? To gain exp how I want? To attack who I want without consequence? To ruin the game for others?
The first two should be staples, the last two are game ruiners
Safety? From making a bad class build? From wandering high level NPCs? From griefing asshats?
again, the first two are bad, the last one is good.
A well made MMORPG has very high freedom in terms of game mechanics, environment, PvE, crafting. And safety, if desired, against the 1% of other players that are out to ruin their game. However you should always have the choice to remove that safety.
So then Freedom is the clear winner, but not for the reasons the OP is trying to get it.
"Freedom" as people have defined it on these forums is the freedom to play the game they wish, without regard to other players. The only real freedom gamers have is in picking the games they want to play. WoW does not provide "freedom" to the player who does not enjoy the rule sets within WoW and Eve does not provide "freedom" to the player who does not enjoy the rule sets within Eve.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Neither option really works for me but I chose freedom, simply because I want to be able to decide when to put myself in danger, I don't want to have danger imposed on me against my will. If I want to go fight a mob, it's my choice to enter into a dangerous situation,, not the choice of some ganker running around the game picking people off at random.
As has been pointed out, both freedom and safety are necessary and we trade some of one for some of the other all the time, as it should be.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.