AT this point, i'm 99% confident they don't have 2 million subs, which surprises me considering i was expecting at least that by force of the IP. But they may not have even reached 1 million. VGChartz tracks physical copies. And if we count digital between 50 to 66.6% of sales, that puts it between 700k to 1.1M, with my bet being less than 1m do to silence from Zenimax. Though, they might not want to even released at number because of comparisons with SWTOR and GW2.
Honestly, the sales numbers aren't even the most important part, now that the consoles version as been delayed. When TOR and TSW failed to meet financial expectations, layoffs followed because cuts had to be made. We don't know the budget for ESO, but as long as Zenimax doesn't suffer layoffs, they'll probably be out of the red.
Will I'm curious about sale figures I don't see how it really helps anyway to know at this stage,
either you enjoy the game or you don't.
i agree
While that is totally true- When Bethesda and Zeni decided to use the Elder Scrolls IP to make an MMO that people have been requesting for nearly 15 years and many. many people purchased mainly due to the IP- They invited discussion and speculation along with the extra profits they gained by using the ES IP.
When they boasted about the beta numbers they , themselves made the numbers an issue they showed they wanted to flaunt.
Their silence now will obviously draw some speculation one way or another and merits discussions due to the fact this is an ES MMO and its a hot topic to discuss right now regardless of your point of view or opinion. The publicity and discussion could have been avoided if this game were launched and called "Dominion X Online" but we ALL know by slapping the ES name on thhis game they automaticly guaranteed some degree of success and extra profit- But also were playing with more backlash DUE to using a loved IP and making a game fans have been requesting since Morrowind.
-So we will discuss, speculate, dissect and argue about everything ESO related.
You are welcome to join us.
-That said, glad you are enjoying the game and you are right. What we discuss matters very little- It comes down to whether you are having fun . But discuss we will- =P
I would not buy any stock into sales numbers because there always seems to be some real shadiness to numbers.
First of all if you asked them,they wouldn't know but some how you get these marketing sites posting numbers all the time.Also developers can manipulate numbers into various quarters for various reasons.You never know if they are trying to influence a rise in stocks or if they are trying to lower numbers to avoid paying large bonuses or for many other reasons.None of us really know what goes on behind closed doors or in the books when comes to paying creditors or perhaps even royalties.
There is also a fact that MANY copies are sold to stores in large quantities of which many may never be sold.Then we don't know if those sales included returns for unsold copies so much shadiness behind numbers that accuracy is NEVER 100%.
Subscription numbers are about the only accurate number people could rely on but magically that is also why free to play games like having no real numbers ,that way they can post whatever they want and the numbers will never go down lol.
Honestly it should not matter one bit,if you enjoy the game just play it,if you don't then don't play it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
FFxIV ARR was released on 27th Aug 2013 and on September 17th this was a press release
Game director Naoki Yoshida explained the game's server woes earlier this month. "The night following the announcement of our plans to temporarily limit sales of the download version, A Realm Reborn recorded upwards of 218,000 concurrent connections," he said at the time. "This is in spite of the fact that the peak login times for separate regions around the world arrive at differing intervals. We estimate that without time zone differences, the total number of concurrent connections would number anywhere from 300,000 to 350,000."
Originally posted by Wizardry Subscription numbers are about the only accurate number people could rely on but magically that is also why free to play games like having no real numbers ,that way they can post whatever they want and the numbers will never go down lol.
even subs are not accurate
subs are paid accounts (doesnt mean people are playing)
only concurrent players gives good estimation for active players
FFxIV ARR was released on 27th Aug 2013 and on September 17th this was a press release
Game director Naoki Yoshida explained the game's server woes earlier this month. "The night following the announcement of our plans to temporarily limit sales of the download version, A Realm Reborn recorded upwards of 218,000 concurrent connections," he said at the time. "This is in spite of the fact that the peak login times for separate regions around the world arrive at differing intervals. We estimate that without time zone differences, the total number of concurrent connections would number anywhere from 300,000 to 350,000."
I seem to recall that the prime motivator for Square's release of player numbers was in an effort to explain why so many players simply could not login to the game. So they attempted to explain the server clusterfuck by claiming that they'd never expected THAT many players.
ZOS has no such problems to explain away. There have been no server queues or suspensions of game sales. The game performance has generally been extremely good, even in PVP.
So the only reason ZOS would release numbers would be for promotional reasons. However, the ZOS marketing efforts so far have been somewhat erratic and even slightly bizarre, so it comes as no surprise that they are not doing "what everyone normally does".
I'm sure their main focus is on console sales (given Skyrim's sales history). Releasing PC/Mac sales numbers will affect console sales, and the numbers will inevitably be compared to sales of Skyrim. That will not go well, even though the comparison is both irrelevant and unfair.
I still think that they'll release combined sales figures for all platforms (after the console release) without giving a breakdown, because that will give the most favourable overall picture.
That doesn't bode well for me because I got it right away and even chuckled out loud.
I think it's curious that they haven't released numbers. I think if they were exceeding expectations we would see a news release. That makes me think sales and numbers aren't where they want them or aren't big enough to brag, but you never know. They could be waiting to rack up some numbers and then make a publicity stunt around the console release.
No matter what they post the screaming morons on forums will spin it into a bad thing. Not knowing for as long as possible is the best play imo. It's obviously not good enough that they feel it will bring people in so why bother giving people more ammo...even if it's not a bad number.
I'm sure you're very familiar with how much facts actually influence people who have a predetermined agenda to spout on about.
I believe your statement would have been just as accurate and a bit more powerful if you had not included the section in red.
The point was ...they don't have any influence over those types of people so...no.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Other than WoW, what company releases subscriber numbers? The last I know of is either SWtOR, or EVE. The former got bit in the ass after advertising 2 million subs only to have 1.5 of them drop after a few months. The later stopped giving numbers out entirely a while back ago (probably because they were in decline).
So what exactly is the problem with ESO not advertising numbers?
Copies sold after a month?
Let's see: AoC, WAR, GW2, TOR.. Anyone selling a lot of copies do it since it is good advertisement.
Actual sub numbers is a different matter, frankly do most games just announce accounts created (F2P) or copies sold (P2P, B2P).
I kinda doubt that ESOs copies sold really bad since the IP is popular and some of my friends play or have played but I also doubt they have been selling as much as they hope.
Something between 800K and 1.5M is my guess since we havn't heard anything but that is of course just a guess, could be more or less. But if it had sold better than all earlier MMOs we would have heard about it.
It is not exactly a problem that they havn't advertise any number but it is not a good sign either.
Then again, it is very possible that ESO will be a huge success on console.
It can be good advertisement to put out the copies sold. Or, as every game in that list of yours can attest to, it can backfire when the numbers don't stay very high after the first few months. The MMO market is so toxic right now, with players basically looking for reasons to hate every game that comes out, that releasing any information is a double-edged sword.
I am going to disagree here. I think it's the opposite. Players are looking for reasons to love these games when they come out. The problem is, they can't find any.
Just the idea of Elder Scrolls Online should attract millions. That concept should not generate hate in and of itself. So why is reality different? Do you think people just decided to hate on Elder Scrolls because it's a new MMO? No, the game simply fails, both as an ES title, and an MMORPG.
I only care about if they sold one copy, my copy. I'm having fun. Stop bashing everything new, and go find a game you like, instead of trolling the forums everywhere.
I am going to disagree here. I think it's the opposite. Players are looking for reasons to love these games when they come out. The problem is, they can't find any.
Just the idea of Elder Scrolls Online should attract millions. That concept should not generate hate in and of itself. So why is reality different? Do you think people just decided to hate on Elder Scrolls because it's a new MMO? No, the game simply fails, both as an ES title, and an MMORPG.
So all the players that like it as an ES title and an MMORPG are wrong, and only the posters that hate it are correct?
It should generate hate because of what it is. Skyrim generated tons of hate for not being like Oblivion or Morrowind. When there are so many differing opinions of what makes a game good or bad someone will always be upset.
Which one will get closer..... only one way to find out, fight!
I think from when EA released that they had 10mil users(of one sort or another) for all the online games(inc apps etc) and the tor fanboys decided this was for swtor f2p only(slighty contradicted by the 1.7mil f2pers released by ea). Also where the 1 mil subs people throw around comes from I think.
I am going to disagree here. I think it's the opposite. Players are looking for reasons to love these games when they come out. The problem is, they can't find any.
Just the idea of Elder Scrolls Online should attract millions. That concept should not generate hate in and of itself. So why is reality different? Do you think people just decided to hate on Elder Scrolls because it's a new MMO? No, the game simply fails, both as an ES title, and an MMORPG.
People have hated it from day 1, because it wasn't "modded Skyrim." Go back through some of the older threads here, from when it was first announced. You'll see some cautious optimism, but it's mostly people logging in to complain about a game they haven't played. There's also the toxic F2P crowd, who used the standard "I'll try it when it goes F2P in 6 months" as some weird passive-aggressive insult.
So yeah, sorry. The game received(s) a ton of hate because it wasn't a F2P sandbox, which is what a lot of people wanted. Nevermind the fact that they have tons of other F2P sandbox games to choose from coming out (Arceage, Black Desert, etc); no, they just had to focus fire TESO on -- I don't know -- principle or something
TESO isn't really unique here. These forums used to be nothing but an outlet to bash on WoW, and extol the virtues of the next WoW-killer (Vanguard, Rift, Conan, etc).
Maybe it's because MMO's have been focusing too much on PvP, so they've attracted the people looking for conflict and trash talking. There's a real sports-team-fanboi thing going on with the industry. I'm surprised I haven't seen sigs with Calvin pissing on a TESO logo or something.
I am going to disagree here. I think it's the opposite. Players are looking for reasons to love these games when they come out. The problem is, they can't find any.
Just the idea of Elder Scrolls Online should attract millions. That concept should not generate hate in and of itself. So why is reality different? Do you think people just decided to hate on Elder Scrolls because it's a new MMO? No, the game simply fails, both as an ES title, and an MMORPG.
People have hated it from day 1, because it wasn't "modded Skyrim." Go back through some of the older threads here, from when it was first announced. You'll see some cautious optimism, but it's mostly people logging in to complain about a game they haven't played. There's also the toxic F2P crowd, who used the standard "I'll try it when it goes F2P in 6 months" as some weird passive-aggressive insult.
So yeah, sorry. The game received(s) a ton of hate because it wasn't a F2P sandbox, which is what a lot of people wanted. Nevermind the fact that they have tons of other F2P sandbox games to choose from coming out (Arceage, Black Desert, etc); no, they just had to focus fire TESO on -- I don't know -- principle or something
TESO isn't really unique here. These forums used to be nothing but an outlet to bash on WoW, and extol the virtues of the next WoW-killer (Vanguard, Rift, Conan, etc).
Maybe it's because MMO's have been focusing too much on PvP, so they've attracted the people looking for conflict and trash talking. There's a real sports-team-fanboi thing going on with the industry. I'm surprised I haven't seen sigs with Calvin pissing on a TESO logo or something.
You missed my point. I said the "idea" of an ES MMO. That is when someone 1st hears there will be one before they start reading or hearing about how it will be designed. That 1st "spark" of an idea, when a person hears that it's going to be done and they think of what's possible. Then they hear about what's going to be reality. The "hate" didn't happen until it became clear that this game was going to be "DAOCNext" with borrowed lore.
Interesting tidbit that. If you go to http://raptr.com/dashboard/games and view the "Top Games Being Played By Everyone", and look at it using the "week" filter you will see that ESO is number 10 at 182K hours. GW2 is at number 12 with 150K hours. Since GW2 has been out for more than a year and ESO just came out last month, when do you think those numbers will start to flip flop? I would say in about another 2 to 3 weeks.
Here is something else interesting Xfire of the course of one month ESO has seen 0 decline. Steady as a rock. I can't recall seeing anything like that. They all dip.
ESO had more people and hours played on May 13 than it did April 13th. It actually has trended upward of the course of the past 30 days.
Originally posted by nilden I'm very interested in seeing box sales, subscriptions, or any official sales numbers. I've been keeping an eye out and guess it would be all over this site if it was released like the 5 million registered for beta but not seeing anything yet. It's been over a month since release, what gives? Do you think they will ever release sales figures or did they do so bad that they never will?
I suppose you can ballpark an idea from this link:
Fewer than 400k sold. Wow, that is pretty bad for a big IP triple A MMORPG. Can't say I am surprised though as this game, although a good single player game, is a pretty crappy MMORPG.
Originally posted by Gravarg I only care about if they sold one copy, my copy. I'm having fun. Stop bashing everything new, and go find a game you like, instead of trolling the forums everywhere.
So you are playing an MMO and dont care if they sold more than one copy? Brilliant!
Originally posted by Gravarg I only care about if they sold one copy, my copy. I'm having fun. Stop bashing everything new, and go find a game you like, instead of trolling the forums everywhere.
So you are playing an MMO and dont care if they sold more than one copy? Brilliant!
He obviously hasn't heard that box sales, subscription numbers, and stock prices are the new end game for MMOs. Pfft this loser actually thinks people play the games still!
Originally posted by Gravarg I only care about if they sold one copy, my copy. I'm having fun. Stop bashing everything new, and go find a game you like, instead of trolling the forums everywhere.
So you are playing an MMO and dont care if they sold more than one copy? Brilliant!
He obviously hasn't heard that box sales, subscription numbers, and stock prices are the new end game for MMOs. Pfft this loser actually thinks people play the games still!
Not sure what your sarcasm is implying. You seriously saying that an MMO would be fine with only one person playing it? Why on earth would that be an MMO then?
I dont care much about massive box sales but I do expect an MMO to atleast have thousands of player, at any one time, playing it. Otherwise, what would be Massively about it?
Comments
AT this point, i'm 99% confident they don't have 2 million subs, which surprises me considering i was expecting at least that by force of the IP. But they may not have even reached 1 million. VGChartz tracks physical copies. And if we count digital between 50 to 66.6% of sales, that puts it between 700k to 1.1M, with my bet being less than 1m do to silence from Zenimax. Though, they might not want to even released at number because of comparisons with SWTOR and GW2.
Honestly, the sales numbers aren't even the most important part, now that the consoles version as been delayed. When TOR and TSW failed to meet financial expectations, layoffs followed because cuts had to be made. We don't know the budget for ESO, but as long as Zenimax doesn't suffer layoffs, they'll probably be out of the red.
i agree
EQ2 fan sites
When did the last MMO release sales figures a month after launch? There is your answer.
While that is totally true- When Bethesda and Zeni decided to use the Elder Scrolls IP to make an MMO that people have been requesting for nearly 15 years and many. many people purchased mainly due to the IP- They invited discussion and speculation along with the extra profits they gained by using the ES IP.
When they boasted about the beta numbers they , themselves made the numbers an issue they showed they wanted to flaunt.
Their silence now will obviously draw some speculation one way or another and merits discussions due to the fact this is an ES MMO and its a hot topic to discuss right now regardless of your point of view or opinion. The publicity and discussion could have been avoided if this game were launched and called "Dominion X Online" but we ALL know by slapping the ES name on thhis game they automaticly guaranteed some degree of success and extra profit- But also were playing with more backlash DUE to using a loved IP and making a game fans have been requesting since Morrowind.
-So we will discuss, speculate, dissect and argue about everything ESO related.
You are welcome to join us.
-That said, glad you are enjoying the game and you are right. What we discuss matters very little- It comes down to whether you are having fun . But discuss we will- =P
Here is your answer courtesy of Nadia
sub#s are more elusive than ever
but both SWTOR and GW2 reported their sales during the first week
SWTOR announced over 1 million players, 3 days after launch
http://www.swtor.com/info/news/press-release/20111223
Ncsoft GW2 announced 1 million sales for 3day preorders, before GW2 launched 08/28/2012
http://techland.time.com/2012/08/28/guild-wars-2-sales-one-million-pre-served-record-400000-playing-at-once/
So something is rotten in the state of Denmark and they're just too ashamed one wonders ?
I would not buy any stock into sales numbers because there always seems to be some real shadiness to numbers.
First of all if you asked them,they wouldn't know but some how you get these marketing sites posting numbers all the time.Also developers can manipulate numbers into various quarters for various reasons.You never know if they are trying to influence a rise in stocks or if they are trying to lower numbers to avoid paying large bonuses or for many other reasons.None of us really know what goes on behind closed doors or in the books when comes to paying creditors or perhaps even royalties.
There is also a fact that MANY copies are sold to stores in large quantities of which many may never be sold.Then we don't know if those sales included returns for unsold copies so much shadiness behind numbers that accuracy is NEVER 100%.
Subscription numbers are about the only accurate number people could rely on but magically that is also why free to play games like having no real numbers ,that way they can post whatever they want and the numbers will never go down lol.
Honestly it should not matter one bit,if you enjoy the game just play it,if you don't then don't play it.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
FFxIV ARR was released on 27th Aug 2013 and on September 17th this was a press release
Game director Naoki Yoshida explained the game's server woes earlier this month. "The night following the announcement of our plans to temporarily limit sales of the download version, A Realm Reborn recorded upwards of 218,000 concurrent connections," he said at the time. "This is in spite of the fact that the peak login times for separate regions around the world arrive at differing intervals. We estimate that without time zone differences, the total number of concurrent connections would number anywhere from 300,000 to 350,000."
http://www.gamespot.com/articles/square-enix-reopens-digital-purchases-of-final-fantasy-xiv/1100-6414524/
So what's up Zenimax ?
even subs are not accurate
subs are paid accounts (doesnt mean people are playing)
only concurrent players gives good estimation for active players
and all games have this info - sub, b2p, f2p
but not many mmos offer it (including WOW)
EQ2 fan sites
I seem to recall that the prime motivator for Square's release of player numbers was in an effort to explain why so many players simply could not login to the game. So they attempted to explain the server clusterfuck by claiming that they'd never expected THAT many players.
ZOS has no such problems to explain away. There have been no server queues or suspensions of game sales. The game performance has generally been extremely good, even in PVP.
So the only reason ZOS would release numbers would be for promotional reasons. However, the ZOS marketing efforts so far have been somewhat erratic and even slightly bizarre, so it comes as no surprise that they are not doing "what everyone normally does".
I'm sure their main focus is on console sales (given Skyrim's sales history). Releasing PC/Mac sales numbers will affect console sales, and the numbers will inevitably be compared to sales of Skyrim. That will not go well, even though the comparison is both irrelevant and unfair.
I still think that they'll release combined sales figures for all platforms (after the console release) without giving a breakdown, because that will give the most favourable overall picture.
The point was ...they don't have any influence over those types of people so...no.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I am going to disagree here. I think it's the opposite. Players are looking for reasons to love these games when they come out. The problem is, they can't find any.
Just the idea of Elder Scrolls Online should attract millions. That concept should not generate hate in and of itself. So why is reality different? Do you think people just decided to hate on Elder Scrolls because it's a new MMO? No, the game simply fails, both as an ES title, and an MMORPG.
Log into the game, look around you.
If you can count the number of real players, it's sales are low.
If you can't count the number of real players, it's sales are high.
If you suspect that your count is skewed, you're right.
So all the players that like it as an ES title and an MMORPG are wrong, and only the posters that hate it are correct?
It should generate hate because of what it is. Skyrim generated tons of hate for not being like Oblivion or Morrowind. When there are so many differing opinions of what makes a game good or bad someone will always be upset.
I think from when EA released that they had 10mil users(of one sort or another) for all the online games(inc apps etc) and the tor fanboys decided this was for swtor f2p only(slighty contradicted by the 1.7mil f2pers released by ea). Also where the 1 mil subs people throw around comes from I think.
People have hated it from day 1, because it wasn't "modded Skyrim." Go back through some of the older threads here, from when it was first announced. You'll see some cautious optimism, but it's mostly people logging in to complain about a game they haven't played. There's also the toxic F2P crowd, who used the standard "I'll try it when it goes F2P in 6 months" as some weird passive-aggressive insult.
So yeah, sorry. The game received(s) a ton of hate because it wasn't a F2P sandbox, which is what a lot of people wanted. Nevermind the fact that they have tons of other F2P sandbox games to choose from coming out (Arceage, Black Desert, etc); no, they just had to focus fire TESO on -- I don't know -- principle or something
TESO isn't really unique here. These forums used to be nothing but an outlet to bash on WoW, and extol the virtues of the next WoW-killer (Vanguard, Rift, Conan, etc).
Maybe it's because MMO's have been focusing too much on PvP, so they've attracted the people looking for conflict and trash talking. There's a real sports-team-fanboi thing going on with the industry. I'm surprised I haven't seen sigs with Calvin pissing on a TESO logo or something.
You make me like charity
How does a cult or niche ARPG outsell a game with the name Elder Scrolls in the title?
Where are these millions and millions of ES fans we were told would buy this game? Where are the indicators for 10 million subs???
In fact, where is Knotwood? Has he cancelled his sub already lol?
You missed my point. I said the "idea" of an ES MMO. That is when someone 1st hears there will be one before they start reading or hearing about how it will be designed. That 1st "spark" of an idea, when a person hears that it's going to be done and they think of what's possible. Then they hear about what's going to be reality. The "hate" didn't happen until it became clear that this game was going to be "DAOCNext" with borrowed lore.
ESO had more people and hours played on May 13 than it did April 13th. It actually has trended upward of the course of the past 30 days.
Fewer than 400k sold. Wow, that is pretty bad for a big IP triple A MMORPG. Can't say I am surprised though as this game, although a good single player game, is a pretty crappy MMORPG.
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So you are playing an MMO and dont care if they sold more than one copy? Brilliant!
My gaming blog
Clearly they only sold 5 copies and all 5 of those customers got a refund. The game is total fail!
/sarcasm
He obviously hasn't heard that box sales, subscription numbers, and stock prices are the new end game for MMOs. Pfft this loser actually thinks people play the games still!
Not sure what your sarcasm is implying. You seriously saying that an MMO would be fine with only one person playing it? Why on earth would that be an MMO then?
I dont care much about massive box sales but I do expect an MMO to atleast have thousands of player, at any one time, playing it. Otherwise, what would be Massively about it?
My gaming blog