I never, and I mean I never understood why people create such topics saying that there are better F2P games out there. Why don't you go and play that games? Seriously, it's pathetic. You don't like the game? Fine, go play the games which you stated that are better and are also F2P.
Also who in the right mind still believes that there might be balanced F2P games out there? Every and I mean EVERY F2P out there is P2W. If you don't see that nor you don't want to see that, then that's your problem. If you are that type of a person who can afford to buy games ( MMO or not ) , you will end up spending way more then 15$ a month in a F2P game. The difference is, that with F2P games, beside spending more then 15$ a month in the cash shop, you will end up playing that game for ... few months , then you'll jump into other F2P where you will also spend money in the cash shop, then you will end up playing other F2P in few months and so on. At the end of the year, you will be spending more then in a P2P game. ( I am strictly talking about that kind of players who can afford spending money for games ! Yes, there are other cases where players are not spending anything, but in a F2P game, if you don't spend a cent, you will probably ..end up frustrating, because there is a pretty visible barrier between free players and those who pay )
OP, you do know that NcSoft still has subscription games, right? Lineage, Aion, Blade and Soul . Yes yes, those are in Asia , but .. they are P2P. If you are not counting Asia, then you should also not count WoW Asia which is 60%+ from their total players.
We won't know till the game is live and we still won't know until content releases. However considering they apparently have a years supply of content for each month in the first year.
Every sub-title on the market should be worth paying for for players who love this genre -to send the suits that are about to ruin it a sign that we dont want no filthy F2P and all the scam that comes with it.
Is this game (or any game for that matter) really worth a $15 monthly sub?
I say no.
With a plethora of great games going (successfully) to non-subscription marketing while still avoiding the pay-to-win nightmare, I dont see how NC Soft will pull this off for long before at least adding in a F2P option.
Seriously, they did it with GW and GW2, why not this game?
The only sub MMO thats stood the test of time successfully is WOW and, well... its WOW.
Not touching this one until they at least remove the sub, I dont mind paying the game price, but times are changing and subs are a thing of the past.
Because NCSoft is basically proped up by Lineage II subs from Asia. Check their annual reports if you don't believe me, after 15 years it's still there biggest earner.
We could sit here all day debating the pros and cons of various revenue systems but lets just cut to the chase.
-You don't agree with Carbines pricing policy and believe because you don't like, it should be changed.
-You don't understand how the MMO business works, nor do you have any understanding of the history of the industry that you quote in any of your examples.
Originally posted by sintenal84k The game inclues 30 days of free game play.
Indeed!
Enough time to get to cap.level and start to grind/farm mobs for some C.R.E.E.D, in hopes that you can drop the sub and start playing for free the following month(s).
I've been really trying to like/love WildStar but I don't think I can simply. Love the art style and love the quirky atmosphere. I think there are a few things going against it in the grand scheme of things....
1) Performance - Whether your want to admit it or not, this game is not as performant as it should be. This should be the dev's highest priority right now. Yeah, it is playable, but in its current state, finicky gamers (and there are a lot of them) will simply pass on it because of this.
2) UI - Don't tell me about mods. Don't tell me about customizations. The average gamer isn't going to go searching for mods to improve the UI. The base UI is poorly designed with elements that range from teeny tiny and almost unreadable to exceptionally large. Teeny tiny notifications every where. This is very noticeable when coming from games like ESO and TSW that literally hide as much of the UI as possible during gameplay. Even FF14 2.0 has a great UI that is intuitive, great looking and highly informative. If they want to put as much on screen as possible, they need to take some cues from FF14 2.0
3) End Game messaging - Believe it or not, your core gamer is your most loyal player. As long as they have stuff to do, they're typically fine and will sub endlessly. Your "hardcore" players tend to make up a large bit of the vocal majority but are a minority in most games. Your "hardcore" crowd is also more finicky they read into every potential game change that will negatively impact their efficient style of gameplay. However, with that said, you can't cater to any one crowd and have a sustainable game. Core gamers LOVE having things to do and things to LOOK FORWARD TO. Core gamers HATE being gated (whether it is by game design or by their own fellow players). Right now, a lot of the messaging around the end game and raiding is alienating the core gamer crowd.
Subs aren't a thing of the past and unless you're referring to RTS or MOBA games, there aren't many options in terms of AAA f2p titles. A lot of your post is mixing opinion and fact.
However, I don't think wildstar is worth a sub for my own reasons.
Are you nuts? Seriously?
How about games NC Soft has already produced such as GW and GW2 just for starters. Then theres Rift, EQ2, STO, LOTRO, the list goes on and on.
Its harder to actually find a sub game these days that dosent at least offer a F2P option.
Again, with the exception of WOW.
They did not PRODUCE those games. They PUBLISHED those games. Huge difference.
Also, if you can't fork 50 cents a day over to play a game, you shouldn't be playing MMORPGs period. Free to play are heavily restricted and generally cost you a lot more than the subscription fee ever will.
I played Open Beta until about 4 AM last night with some buddies doing PvP. It was an absolute blast. It's like League of Legends, WoW-Style. I pre-ordered and so far am glad I did.
The devs have promised that they will push a release each month to make your sub fee worth it. Additionally, they are trying to input an expansions worth of content in by the end of the year for the cost of your sub fee (or just subbing at end of year).
Say you make 7$ an hour. Which means your time, at this moment, is worth around 7$ an hour. So if you play an MMORPG any more than 3 hours, you are getting a deal.
3 hours of bowling: 15-21$ depending
3 hours (or a little less) of a movie, alone: 9-10$ + over priced food
6-8 hours of fun at an amusement park: 50-80$ (8-10$/hr)
1 month of unlimited entertainment and fun: 15$ + internet fees (which you are paying anyway)
Hmm... is a Subscription fee worth it?
EDIT: Sorry if I am coming off as a complete arse. That is not my intent. I just get tired of people thinking that 15$ is this huge amount. Look at Dragon Realms. It's a friggen MUD that people are paying 40+ $ a MONTH to play their premium sub. 15$ is NOT that much. Just skip Taco Bell/McDonalds TWICE in one month and you're golden.
Is this game (or any game for that matter) really worth a $15 monthly sub?
I say no.
With a plethora of great games going (successfully) to non-subscription marketing while still avoiding the pay-to-win nightmare, I dont see how NC Soft will pull this off for long before at least adding in a F2P option.
Seriously, they did it with GW and GW2, why not this game?
The only sub MMO thats stood the test of time successfully is WOW and, well... its WOW.
Not touching this one until they at least remove the sub, I dont mind paying the game price, but times are changing and subs are a thing of the past.
This is available in Wildstar with their CREDD system (like Tera's Chronoscrolls, or EVE's Plexx). Although you still have to buy the game first, so really more of a B2P option.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
Is this game (or any game for that matter) really worth a $15 monthly sub?
I say no.
With a plethora of great games going (successfully) to non-subscription marketing while still avoiding the pay-to-win nightmare, I dont see how NC Soft will pull this off for long before at least adding in a F2P option.
Seriously, they did it with GW and GW2, why not this game?
The only sub MMO thats stood the test of time successfully is WOW and, well... its WOW.
Not touching this one until they at least remove the sub, I dont mind paying the game price, but times are changing and subs are a thing of the past.
I think you have to be nuts to think they are a thing of the past there are so many sub models out there. To say wow is the only sub worth talking about is pretty silly to say.
I dont think wildstar is going to last as far as subs go but ESO sure will.
Is this game (or any game for that matter) really worth a $15 monthly sub?
I say no.
With a plethora of great games going (successfully) to non-subscription marketing while still avoiding the pay-to-win nightmare, I dont see how NC Soft will pull this off for long before at least adding in a F2P option.
Seriously, they did it with GW and GW2, why not this game?
The only sub MMO thats stood the test of time successfully is WOW and, well... its WOW.
Not touching this one until they at least remove the sub, I dont mind paying the game price, but times are changing and subs are a thing of the past.
I think you have to be nuts to think they are a thing of the past there are so many sub models out there. To say wow is the only sub worth talking about is pretty silly to say.
I dont think wildstar is going to last as far as subs go but ESO sure will.
Don't want to start a war, but I honestly think ESO is going to go B2P (GW2 style) or a version of Free to Play. Too many horrible bugs. Lost too many subscribers. STILL too many bots.
EDIT: I forgot about console versions. Given THAT information, you are most probably right.
I'm just really glad that somebody brought up the P2P vs F2P discussion. We haven't had one for a few hours on this site, and I was beginning to get concerned.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
Originally posted by Kaladin I'm just really glad that somebody brought up the P2P vs F2P discussion. We haven't had one for a few hours on this site, and I was beginning to get concerned.
While I won't be playing this game, I'd say anything that you can get more than 5 hours a month of playtime out of is EASILY worth $15. That's the cost of a movie ticket, 2 beers, or a decent burger.
I already know it's not worth $15/month. A more important question is it worth the $60 to play it at launch for a month... which at the moment I'd have to say no as well.
I'll be paying $15/month for it as I find it fun and full of content. I dont mind rewarding a gaming company if they put out a good product. 15 a month is really a small amount of money for hundreds of hours of entertainment. Plus, I plan on making a lot of money selling CREED ^.~
Originally posted by DanitaKusor I already know it's not worth $15/month. A more important question is it worth the $60 to play it at launch for a month... which at the moment I'd have to say no as well.
For you*
There is a difference between not wanting to pay monthly for a game, and a game not being worth it's subscription.
I don't like WoW anymore, but I think it is worth it's subscription to people who still enjoy the game. Wildstar has enough content, and already has ambitious enough plans for the future to warrant a subscription. If they can pull of monthly content updates, while still developing the next tier of raids, and new PvP arenas and battleground, I would say it's worth it whether I liked the game or not.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
Originally posted by monarc333 I'll be paying $15/month for it as I find it fun and full of content. I dont mind rewarding a gaming company if they put out a good product. 15 a month is really a small amount of money for hundreds of hours of entertainment. Plus, I plan on making a lot of money selling CREED ^.~
So spending more than $15/month, I like you.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane. And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes. Hurt - Wars
Is this game (or any game for that matter) really worth a $15 monthly sub?
I say no.
With a plethora of great games going (successfully) to non-subscription marketing while still avoiding the pay-to-win nightmare, I dont see how NC Soft will pull this off for long before at least adding in a F2P option.
Seriously, they did it with GW and GW2, why not this game?
The only sub MMO thats stood the test of time successfully is WOW and, well... its WOW.
Not touching this one until they at least remove the sub, I dont mind paying the game price, but times are changing and subs are a thing of the past.
I say you're wrong. None of those games have depth - Guild Wars 2 among them. GW2 is a great game, but it's incredibly scant at the end game. The depth - seen in housing, raids, warplots, multiple types of instanced content - you're only getting that with a sub. Guild Wars 1 was a great game too, but it halted production shortly after and never offered the kind of depth experienced by its peers. I'm happy to have a game supported by a sub - even though I prefer the buy to play model - because I don't want to see free to play. I don't want to see an in game store, buffs, all of it - I don't want it. I want a game, not a sales pitch.
Is this game (or any game for that matter) really worth a $15 monthly sub?
I say no.
With a plethora of great games going (successfully) to non-subscription marketing while still avoiding the pay-to-win nightmare, I dont see how NC Soft will pull this off for long before at least adding in a F2P option.
Seriously, they did it with GW and GW2, why not this game?
The only sub MMO thats stood the test of time successfully is WOW and, well... its WOW.
Not touching this one until they at least remove the sub, I dont mind paying the game price, but times are changing and subs are a thing of the past.
Lots of new MMOs are doing the sub thing just fine. There is a reason why games start of box + sub. Makes more money as the fans of the game are willing to pay it. The extra long trial we call F2P comes later when launch problems are behind them and they are ready for more gamers. Most F2P games that are worth playing are not really F2P, if you wana join the end game community you need to sub. If this game worth it? Why not? This game already has more depth then GW2 has even after how long its been out. You want quality, you need to pay.
GW2 spoiled me,i don't think any of these post wow mmo's are worth a sub. My feeling is back in those early mmo days it was this new genre and it was exciting. Playing with people from around the world in fantasy world as someone else. There was just a handful of these games. And i payed the sub for just about all of them. But like anything else it just gets old. These games are doing the same dam thing. Back then the tech was old/new and i could see them needing to take a monthly for up keep. Today these games can almost run themselves with the tech being used today. I think to many gamers are being fooled into believing these companies need that sub.money to keep games running while its being proved with every f2p game that its bs and just there to get extra money because the old system was set up like that. Its all about money post wow. U.S. game companies with f2p models with restrictions so sub.players won't get mad. Cash shops bring in more money but that sub. players money is steady profit so keep it . Every mmo post wow is doing the same thing as those old games and i just don't want to pay for them anymore. If a new mmo comes out with something completely new and mind blowing,hell yeah i would pay 20 dollars a month if they asked me to. GW2 has been the only recent game to come out doing different things.
Is this game (or any game for that matter) really worth a $15 monthly sub?
I say no.
With a plethora of great games going (successfully) to non-subscription marketing while still avoiding the pay-to-win nightmare, I dont see how NC Soft will pull this off for long before at least adding in a F2P option.
Seriously, they did it with GW and GW2, why not this game?
The only sub MMO thats stood the test of time successfully is WOW and, well... its WOW.
Not touching this one until they at least remove the sub, I dont mind paying the game price, but times are changing and subs are a thing of the past.
Lots of new MMOs are doing the sub thing just fine. There is a reason why games start of box + sub. Makes more money as the fans of the game are willing to pay it. The extra long trial we call F2P comes later when launch problems are behind them and they are ready for more gamers. Most F2P games that are worth playing are not really F2P, if you wana join the end game community you need to sub. If this game worth it? Why not? This game already has more depth then GW2 has even after how long its been out. You want quality, you need to pay.
The reason they start box+sub is because there is enough suckers to actually pay it, then when its near death they go F2P and have an uproar of those same suckers who feel cheated for paying box+sub.
Comments
I never, and I mean I never understood why people create such topics saying that there are better F2P games out there. Why don't you go and play that games? Seriously, it's pathetic. You don't like the game? Fine, go play the games which you stated that are better and are also F2P.
Also who in the right mind still believes that there might be balanced F2P games out there? Every and I mean EVERY F2P out there is P2W. If you don't see that nor you don't want to see that, then that's your problem. If you are that type of a person who can afford to buy games ( MMO or not ) , you will end up spending way more then 15$ a month in a F2P game. The difference is, that with F2P games, beside spending more then 15$ a month in the cash shop, you will end up playing that game for ... few months , then you'll jump into other F2P where you will also spend money in the cash shop, then you will end up playing other F2P in few months and so on. At the end of the year, you will be spending more then in a P2P game. ( I am strictly talking about that kind of players who can afford spending money for games ! Yes, there are other cases where players are not spending anything, but in a F2P game, if you don't spend a cent, you will probably ..end up frustrating, because there is a pretty visible barrier between free players and those who pay )
OP, you do know that NcSoft still has subscription games, right? Lineage, Aion, Blade and Soul . Yes yes, those are in Asia , but .. they are P2P. If you are not counting Asia, then you should also not count WoW Asia which is 60%+ from their total players.
Schrödinger's cat
We won't know till the game is live and we still won't know until content releases. However considering they apparently have a years supply of content for each month in the first year.
The cat maybe alive but we won't know till live.
Yes, it is.
Every sub-title on the market should be worth paying for for players who love this genre -to send the suits that are about to ruin it a sign that we dont want no filthy F2P and all the scam that comes with it.
Of course it is. If you have fun and like to play it, those 50cent per day are a bargain.
Hodor!
With this amount of content, yeah it is.
You pay until you make enough gold in game to buy CREDD intead of paying each month.
I would prefer B2P like GW2, but I'm having fun enough to pay for a few months or so.
..Cake..
Because NCSoft is basically proped up by Lineage II subs from Asia. Check their annual reports if you don't believe me, after 15 years it's still there biggest earner.
We could sit here all day debating the pros and cons of various revenue systems but lets just cut to the chase.
-You don't agree with Carbines pricing policy and believe because you don't like, it should be changed.
-You don't understand how the MMO business works, nor do you have any understanding of the history of the industry that you quote in any of your examples.
Done, good, move on..
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
Indeed!
Enough time to get to cap.level and start to grind/farm mobs for some C.R.E.E.D, in hopes that you can drop the sub and start playing for free the following month(s).
I've been really trying to like/love WildStar but I don't think I can simply. Love the art style and love the quirky atmosphere. I think there are a few things going against it in the grand scheme of things....
1) Performance - Whether your want to admit it or not, this game is not as performant as it should be. This should be the dev's highest priority right now. Yeah, it is playable, but in its current state, finicky gamers (and there are a lot of them) will simply pass on it because of this.
2) UI - Don't tell me about mods. Don't tell me about customizations. The average gamer isn't going to go searching for mods to improve the UI. The base UI is poorly designed with elements that range from teeny tiny and almost unreadable to exceptionally large. Teeny tiny notifications every where. This is very noticeable when coming from games like ESO and TSW that literally hide as much of the UI as possible during gameplay. Even FF14 2.0 has a great UI that is intuitive, great looking and highly informative. If they want to put as much on screen as possible, they need to take some cues from FF14 2.0
3) End Game messaging - Believe it or not, your core gamer is your most loyal player. As long as they have stuff to do, they're typically fine and will sub endlessly. Your "hardcore" players tend to make up a large bit of the vocal majority but are a minority in most games. Your "hardcore" crowd is also more finicky they read into every potential game change that will negatively impact their efficient style of gameplay. However, with that said, you can't cater to any one crowd and have a sustainable game. Core gamers LOVE having things to do and things to LOOK FORWARD TO. Core gamers HATE being gated (whether it is by game design or by their own fellow players). Right now, a lot of the messaging around the end game and raiding is alienating the core gamer crowd.
No, worst game world and questing in 10 years and focus on lobby endgame.
There are much better options for free for both fame world/questing and lobby style games.
They did not PRODUCE those games. They PUBLISHED those games. Huge difference.
RAWR
Also, if you can't fork 50 cents a day over to play a game, you shouldn't be playing MMORPGs period. Free to play are heavily restricted and generally cost you a lot more than the subscription fee ever will.
I played Open Beta until about 4 AM last night with some buddies doing PvP. It was an absolute blast. It's like League of Legends, WoW-Style. I pre-ordered and so far am glad I did.
The devs have promised that they will push a release each month to make your sub fee worth it. Additionally, they are trying to input an expansions worth of content in by the end of the year for the cost of your sub fee (or just subbing at end of year).
Say you make 7$ an hour. Which means your time, at this moment, is worth around 7$ an hour. So if you play an MMORPG any more than 3 hours, you are getting a deal.
3 hours of bowling: 15-21$ depending
3 hours (or a little less) of a movie, alone: 9-10$ + over priced food
6-8 hours of fun at an amusement park: 50-80$ (8-10$/hr)
1 month of unlimited entertainment and fun: 15$ + internet fees (which you are paying anyway)
Hmm... is a Subscription fee worth it?
EDIT: Sorry if I am coming off as a complete arse. That is not my intent. I just get tired of people thinking that 15$ is this huge amount. Look at Dragon Realms. It's a friggen MUD that people are paying 40+ $ a MONTH to play their premium sub. 15$ is NOT that much. Just skip Taco Bell/McDonalds TWICE in one month and you're golden.
RAWR
This is available in Wildstar with their CREDD system (like Tera's Chronoscrolls, or EVE's Plexx). Although you still have to buy the game first, so really more of a B2P option.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
I think you have to be nuts to think they are a thing of the past there are so many sub models out there. To say wow is the only sub worth talking about is pretty silly to say.
I dont think wildstar is going to last as far as subs go but ESO sure will.
Don't want to start a war, but I honestly think ESO is going to go B2P (GW2 style) or a version of Free to Play. Too many horrible bugs. Lost too many subscribers. STILL too many bots.
EDIT: I forgot about console versions. Given THAT information, you are most probably right.
RAWR
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
:P. Worry not my friend.
I may not always talk about subscriptions.
But when I do.
I talk about viagra.
RAWR
The Enlightened take things Lightly
For you*
There is a difference between not wanting to pay monthly for a game, and a game not being worth it's subscription.
I don't like WoW anymore, but I think it is worth it's subscription to people who still enjoy the game. Wildstar has enough content, and already has ambitious enough plans for the future to warrant a subscription. If they can pull of monthly content updates, while still developing the next tier of raids, and new PvP arenas and battleground, I would say it's worth it whether I liked the game or not.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
So spending more than $15/month, I like you.
I can fly higher than an aeroplane.
And I have the voice of a thousand hurricanes.
Hurt - Wars
I say you're wrong. None of those games have depth - Guild Wars 2 among them. GW2 is a great game, but it's incredibly scant at the end game. The depth - seen in housing, raids, warplots, multiple types of instanced content - you're only getting that with a sub. Guild Wars 1 was a great game too, but it halted production shortly after and never offered the kind of depth experienced by its peers. I'm happy to have a game supported by a sub - even though I prefer the buy to play model - because I don't want to see free to play. I don't want to see an in game store, buffs, all of it - I don't want it. I want a game, not a sales pitch.
Lots of new MMOs are doing the sub thing just fine. There is a reason why games start of box + sub. Makes more money as the fans of the game are willing to pay it. The extra long trial we call F2P comes later when launch problems are behind them and they are ready for more gamers. Most F2P games that are worth playing are not really F2P, if you wana join the end game community you need to sub. If this game worth it? Why not? This game already has more depth then GW2 has even after how long its been out. You want quality, you need to pay.
The reason they start box+sub is because there is enough suckers to actually pay it, then when its near death they go F2P and have an uproar of those same suckers who feel cheated for paying box+sub.
And WS has a depth of Teletubbies. Sorry dude.