They obviously pushed the game to release WAY too early. But I think 1.1 will bring the changes most people are looking for, or at least will be a move in the right direction. I am trying not to see the game as it is now (a fun 1-50 experience) and instead will wait to see what changes 1.1 brings which will hopefully allow people to see Craglorn without taking up ESO as a second career.
MMO developers need to stop this. Release a complete game or postpone launch. At least ESO realized this for the console launch, but it is too late for the PC launch. I might come back, but I doubt it, they should have given me a better first impression.
Proclaiming it PVP game then forcing PVPers to grind out VR levels PVEing was retarded too.
I still remember those days when PvP-ers wanted to skip PvE-ing to level 10 just to go straight to RvR so they will never leave it anymore.
Two things that stand out to me here is 1. HOW LONG IT TAKES TO LEVEL 2. IF YOU ARE GROUPED OR SOLO.
When MMO games first came out it required Groups of players to XP and level by grinding on mobs, and would take a very very long time to level up to days worth of grouping, finding a camp and then leveling for hours each day.
Over time, starting with World of Warcraft, this experience became more and more solo. What they found is that people got quite frankly, LONELY. So to fix the solo loneliness of leveling up in games, they made the amount of time to level incredibly shorter, allow you to level up to max level in under a week or so. This pretty much fixed the solo leveling experience, getting players to end game activies that are group/raid based faster so you wouldn't have that solo loneliness.
I think a lot of players from older games would love to see levels take a very very long time to level again, but it cannot and must not be a solo experience, which will bring back the problem of Lonely leveling. Keep in mind that old games before WoW gave a group play experience for leveling, so grinding on mobs with others gave you something to do, it gave a social aspect of the game that allowed you to feel like the time you were leveling as going by really fast and ENJOYABLE.
Leveling up solo and having a very very very long time to XP leaves you to your thoughts to play with no social interaction which is no different then WORK. Think about it, at work you go to work, you help a company achieve a goal, but you do it without social interaction and what happens is, you watch the clock, you get bored, and ultimately you come to the conclusion that work is NOT ENJOYABLE.
So there you have it, while ESO wants so much to have old school leveling of very very long time to level, they cannot and should not ignore the fact that there it is a SOLO eperience in the game which will lead to the feeling of work and bordem from the solo aspect of the game. They should consider making that very long journey a GROUP experience, or it will not end good.
In the end ESO will have to choose if they want to have long leveling which is incompatable with Solo leveling, or if they want to Shorten the time it takes to get to end game raiding/grouping. You cant have both solo and long leveling. Hope they do look at this because people will give up mid journey to end game, such as the OP is showing signs of Solo Loneliness.
I haven't been watching the clock, except to see how much longer I get to play. Haven't done any grouping, and I haven't been the slightest bit lonely.
Originally posted by udon Originally posted by Mothanos VR15 is around the corner.....just check the Craglorn movie at the 4 min mark :P Happy camping ! I think they do so much damage with this design......level 50 should have been it. Open the game for everyone, that means dungeons / raids / trials / pvp. I dont know what they are smoking or if they even realise what a fail design this is... I quited when i had a VR5 and a VR2...but that quest grind became so tedious..... And then i saw VR15 is not far away i was like, you got to be kidding me..... Their game their vision. But it was a deal breaker for me the moment i saw that video -_-
I don't see how this can possibly play out in a good way. What happens if I have to go out of town for work or vacation and my normal group advances the quest while I'm gone? I can see it now.
LFG for quest X town is still hostile to me
LFM for quest Y must have already saved the town
LF1M for dailies fast run, skip the dialog
Questing and grouping beyond one off quests has never worked well. It's a cluster of trying to get everyone on the same page and with phasing it's going to be 10 times worse. I have seen group quests work but only when they are taking you to places others want to go anyways like dungeons and the specific quest step doesn't lock other out of helping.
Adventure zones could be a good idea but making it the only way to advance levels and making it heavily quest dependent with phasing means I predict very few if any will ever make it to VR12 much less VR15.
Like I said before Adventure zones should be VR1-10 not VR11+. Zenimax is shooting themselves in the foot with this move in a big way.
Totaly agree with your post. Thing is that Craglorn should have been ready with ESO's launch. if you look up some "older" vids you see Paul Sage talking about the game opening up at level >>>50<<< with dungeons / raids / cyrodiil / adventure zones. But they changed it to Veteran levels to buy themselves more time. Once you hit level 50/V1 you have only done 30% of the leveling, but not only do you need more exp to ding you also need to complete 2 whole factions worth of quests to reach max level...on increased difficulty.
I think most of us like to be challenged ! i do at least ! But 2 total factions worth of questing ? thats a little to dull for many of us.
This design is turning tons of people away from the game for many reasons. Now you are killing your own faction in quests... The questing that was fun starts to become a burden... Cyrodiil is still miles away if you want to compete.... Rolling an alt is suicide....same quests / same progresion...
They took away any need to explore the other faction or roll an alt and see what its like to play that class.
Veteran levels where a last made call to buy Zenimax more time to release contend and by doing so they ruined many options for many players. Cool for the people who never make alts or try out diffrent classes on max level. But its a disaster for people who like to spice up their playtime with diffrent classes.
With VR12 released this week and VR15 released after that i can only see people give up on this horrible design. From pure pvp fanatics who are forced to grind trough more quests. To people who love playing alts. And even people who HATE questing are forced to grind trough them for days / weeks / months on end depending how much free time you have.
I say that i had a blast leveling to 50 !!!! reached VR5 and then it sucked away all the fun Rerolled another class and leveled it to VR2 !!
But each day passing i lost the will to log in and when seeing that VR15 i was like hell no Zenimax.....no more lazy ass veteran rank design. That is not worth my montly payment.
Zenimax walks a thin line...with 3 major mmo's closing in and people getting a burnout from questing and all the other problems with ESO ongoing are not sitting around paying for something they dont enjoy.
if they would have no classes and kept it at level 50 this game would have been totaly diffrent ! But it is not...sadly....
Originally posted by Bulldoze Quit when I found out I'd have to do all 3 factions areas with 1 character. That's the whole point in 3 factions, so you can roll alts and try something different. Being able to do it all on 1 character took away the entire reason for factions. They may aswell just have made it like lotro, no factions and you can join cyrodil to PvP for the sake of it. As it stands the factions just seem pointless to me
That's how I feel. I knew we had to do VR in other faction areas but I didn't imagine it was just doing their storyline, just harder and for less reward.
Too lazy even to take out the 'go kill your own people' quests?
I'm afraid that no matter how much I'm enjoying levelling up this news cast a shadow on my game play. I wanted to get to VR10 so I could be of some use in PvP but I don't think I can face slowly grinding through stuff that not only makes no sense no matter what hand-waving is done to 'explain' it, it's antithetical to everything my character stands for.
I don't care if it is some sub-Star-Trek alternative reality. My character is a Breton, not some mercenary asshole.
I've been a big fan of this game but this lazy-ass gating of new content behind recycling old content is changing my mind. I was planning to do the other stories with alts.
I'm going to have to see how i feel when the 180 day sub runs out but at the moment I'm feeling dispirited by this bullshit grind. I want a way to get to Craglorn that does not involve fighting for 2 enemy factions for no other good reason than $200,000,000 and god knows how many years wasn't enough to develop a VR1-10 story.
I've just bought into the ArcheAge alpha as a result. and it's a sad bloody day when a Korean MMO is the less grindy-looking alternative.
Zenimax have made so many questionable design decisions.
This game launched with 300+ hours of content. If you played through to VR10 in 6 weeks that's 50 hours / week for a game. This is not "light" or "normal" playing. This is more hours of things to do than virtually every other game at launch.
You may not like what it is. You may skip through or ignore most of it. But to pretend that this game didn't launch with hundreds of hours of things to do is just false.
I have played steadily and haven't yet finished one of the factions. I will have four months of gaming - not casual gaming; as in, 20 - 25 hours a week of gaming for **four months** here. Complaining that this is not enough at launch is not reasonable.
Actually Bioware said in an interview that people ON AVG were putting in 40 hours a week(and up to 120 in some cases) in the first 2 months of swtor. so in a sense 50hrs a week is really only slightly above normal.
If people are putting 40+ hours a week into a game, that is not normal in any sense of the word. People really need to get some priorities in their life. People putting that much time into a game are doing a great dis-service, either to their professional/student life or their social life, or both. Sorry, but its true.
They obviously pushed the game to release WAY too early. But I think 1.1 will bring the changes most people are looking for, or at least will be a move in the right direction. I am trying not to see the game as it is now (a fun 1-50 experience) and instead will wait to see what changes 1.1 brings which will hopefully allow people to see Craglorn without taking up ESO as a second career.
MMO developers need to stop this. Release a complete game or postpone launch. At least ESO realized this for the console launch, but it is too late for the PC launch. I might come back, but I doubt it, they should have given me a better first impression.
Proclaiming it PVP game then forcing PVPers to grind out VR levels PVEing was retarded too.
I still remember those days when PvP-ers wanted to skip PvE-ing to level 10 just to go straight to RvR so they will never leave it anymore.
That was hilarious.
lulz for the most part that's what I did (almost v7 atm).. I probably have about 20 levels outside of Cyrodiil. Those 20 levels were brutal! lol I hope the XP boost fixes this.
Comments
I still remember those days when PvP-ers wanted to skip PvE-ing to level 10 just to go straight to RvR so they will never leave it anymore.
That was hilarious.
I think the OP has a very valid point.
Two things that stand out to me here is 1. HOW LONG IT TAKES TO LEVEL 2. IF YOU ARE GROUPED OR SOLO.
When MMO games first came out it required Groups of players to XP and level by grinding on mobs, and would take a very very long time to level up to days worth of grouping, finding a camp and then leveling for hours each day.
Over time, starting with World of Warcraft, this experience became more and more solo. What they found is that people got quite frankly, LONELY. So to fix the solo loneliness of leveling up in games, they made the amount of time to level incredibly shorter, allow you to level up to max level in under a week or so. This pretty much fixed the solo leveling experience, getting players to end game activies that are group/raid based faster so you wouldn't have that solo loneliness.
I think a lot of players from older games would love to see levels take a very very long time to level again, but it cannot and must not be a solo experience, which will bring back the problem of Lonely leveling. Keep in mind that old games before WoW gave a group play experience for leveling, so grinding on mobs with others gave you something to do, it gave a social aspect of the game that allowed you to feel like the time you were leveling as going by really fast and ENJOYABLE.
Leveling up solo and having a very very very long time to XP leaves you to your thoughts to play with no social interaction which is no different then WORK. Think about it, at work you go to work, you help a company achieve a goal, but you do it without social interaction and what happens is, you watch the clock, you get bored, and ultimately you come to the conclusion that work is NOT ENJOYABLE.
So there you have it, while ESO wants so much to have old school leveling of very very long time to level, they cannot and should not ignore the fact that there it is a SOLO eperience in the game which will lead to the feeling of work and bordem from the solo aspect of the game. They should consider making that very long journey a GROUP experience, or it will not end good.
In the end ESO will have to choose if they want to have long leveling which is incompatable with Solo leveling, or if they want to Shorten the time it takes to get to end game raiding/grouping. You cant have both solo and long leveling. Hope they do look at this because people will give up mid journey to end game, such as the OP is showing signs of Solo Loneliness.
LFG for quest X town is still hostile to me
LFM for quest Y must have already saved the town
LF1M for dailies fast run, skip the dialog
Questing and grouping beyond one off quests has never worked well. It's a cluster of trying to get everyone on the same page and with phasing it's going to be 10 times worse. I have seen group quests work but only when they are taking you to places others want to go anyways like dungeons and the specific quest step doesn't lock other out of helping.
Adventure zones could be a good idea but making it the only way to advance levels and making it heavily quest dependent with phasing means I predict very few if any will ever make it to VR12 much less VR15.
Like I said before Adventure zones should be VR1-10 not VR11+. Zenimax is shooting themselves in the foot with this move in a big way.
Totaly agree with your post.
Thing is that Craglorn should have been ready with ESO's launch.
if you look up some "older" vids you see Paul Sage talking about the game opening up at level >>>50<<< with dungeons / raids / cyrodiil / adventure zones.
But they changed it to Veteran levels to buy themselves more time.
Once you hit level 50/V1 you have only done 30% of the leveling, but not only do you need more exp to ding you also need to complete 2 whole factions worth of quests to reach max level...on increased difficulty.
I think most of us like to be challenged ! i do at least !
But 2 total factions worth of questing ? thats a little to dull for many of us.
This design is turning tons of people away from the game for many reasons.
Now you are killing your own faction in quests...
The questing that was fun starts to become a burden...
Cyrodiil is still miles away if you want to compete....
Rolling an alt is suicide....same quests / same progresion...
They took away any need to explore the other faction or roll an alt and see what its like to play that class.
Veteran levels where a last made call to buy Zenimax more time to release contend and by doing so they ruined many options for many players.
Cool for the people who never make alts or try out diffrent classes on max level.
But its a disaster for people who like to spice up their playtime with diffrent classes.
With VR12 released this week and VR15 released after that i can only see people give up on this horrible design.
From pure pvp fanatics who are forced to grind trough more quests.
To people who love playing alts.
And even people who HATE questing are forced to grind trough them for days / weeks / months on end depending how much free time you have.
I say that i had a blast leveling to 50 !!!!
reached VR5 and then it sucked away all the fun
Rerolled another class and leveled it to VR2 !!
But each day passing i lost the will to log in and when seeing that VR15 i was like hell no Zenimax.....no more lazy ass veteran rank design.
That is not worth my montly payment.
Zenimax walks a thin line...with 3 major mmo's closing in and people getting a burnout from questing and all the other problems with ESO ongoing are not sitting around paying for something they dont enjoy.
if they would have no classes and kept it at level 50 this game would have been totaly diffrent !
But it is not...sadly....
That's how I feel. I knew we had to do VR in other faction areas but I didn't imagine it was just doing their storyline, just harder and for less reward.
Too lazy even to take out the 'go kill your own people' quests?
I'm afraid that no matter how much I'm enjoying levelling up this news cast a shadow on my game play. I wanted to get to VR10 so I could be of some use in PvP but I don't think I can face slowly grinding through stuff that not only makes no sense no matter what hand-waving is done to 'explain' it, it's antithetical to everything my character stands for.
I don't care if it is some sub-Star-Trek alternative reality. My character is a Breton, not some mercenary asshole.
I've been a big fan of this game but this lazy-ass gating of new content behind recycling old content is changing my mind. I was planning to do the other stories with alts.
I'm going to have to see how i feel when the 180 day sub runs out but at the moment I'm feeling dispirited by this bullshit grind. I want a way to get to Craglorn that does not involve fighting for 2 enemy factions for no other good reason than $200,000,000 and god knows how many years wasn't enough to develop a VR1-10 story.
I've just bought into the ArcheAge alpha as a result. and it's a sad bloody day when a Korean MMO is the less grindy-looking alternative.
Zenimax have made so many questionable design decisions.
If people are putting 40+ hours a week into a game, that is not normal in any sense of the word. People really need to get some priorities in their life. People putting that much time into a game are doing a great dis-service, either to their professional/student life or their social life, or both. Sorry, but its true.
Elladan - ESO (AD)
Camring - SWTOR (Ebon Hawk)
Eol & Justinian - Rift (Faeblight)
Ceol and Duri - LotRO (Landroval)
Kili - WoW
Eol - Lineage 2
Camring - SWG
Justinian (Nimue), Camring - DAoC
lulz for the most part that's what I did (almost v7 atm).. I probably have about 20 levels outside of Cyrodiil. Those 20 levels were brutal! lol I hope the XP boost fixes this.