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E3 Interview killed my interest
admriker444
Member Posts: 1,526
Dev says in interview the typical lets hide how awful solo play is statement with " grouping will be vital to most aspects but solo is possible" Translation, sure one could solo but it will be like banging your head against a brick wall.
Looks like the EQ guys didnt learn their lessons from that guild-centered game. No thanks
Comments
Well..........Sigil stated several times that Vanguard won't be a solo game, which is pretty original, since apart from EQ there is not "group only" games on the market right now.
I really hope that they keep their word.....or I will be disappointed
Originally posted by admriker444
Looks like the EQ guys didnt learn their lessons from that guild-centered game. No thanks
what lessons were to be learned from creating the so called guild-centered MMORPG phenomenon that is Everquest? It would be one thing if the game wasn't the greatest MMORPG achievement to date.
"We used to laugh at Grandpa when he'd head off and go fishing. But we wouldn't be laughing that evening when he'd come back with some whore he picked up in town."
-Jack Handey
The E3 info kind of killed my interest too. I'd have to say i'm not looking forward to this game nearly as much. I was thinking i'd buy it and try it but now i think i'll wait til they offer a buddy key or free trial. What they describe is (surprise, surprise) very much like the game the same team designed for SOE.. EQ2.. There are some serious flaws with eq2. The grouping system, the combat system, the crafting system, massive instancing.. the list goes on. These are profound flaws that made the game stagnate not to mention the game had/has a 0 immersion factor. Since its basically the same team that initially developed EQ2 this doesnt surprise me but it does disappoint me that they'd take the ideas from EQ2 which was (lets be honest) an utter failure. Although i am currently subscribed to EQ2 for some reason LOL! Well ok i subscribe to EQ2 because its not much more than just subscribing to EQ and i get all their games.. But honestly i'll probably be cancelling my SOE account soon as not one of their games is any fun..
Instead of looking at what EQ2 did the Sigil team seriously needs to look at the Saga of Ryzom system and start from there. Saga of Ryzom, Dark and Light and EVE-Online are all games that have some very creative and well thought out concepts. They're deep, innovative and allow players a vast amount of freedom to shape the game. I started out reading the vanguard forums about 18 months ago i guess and at first i was really hyped.. Then EQ2 came out and i saw some of the concepts in action. I lose more interest in the game everyday. Honestly the Saga of Ryzom is the future of fantasy mmorpgs. The game will grow as they add depth. Dark and Light will be good if they can make it viable but serious technological issues will plague them for awhile. I hear the mantra "content is king" and to some extent its true. The real truth is freedom and fun is king. If theres enough content to keep people having fun then the freer these people are - the more fun they'll have. Nevrax knows this.. how long til the other companies catch on? How long til players catch on to SoR? Looks like the players are already.. maybe the companies will notice..
Make a difference!
Umm...
EverQuest II's concepts weren't bad, they were just badly implimented. Vanguard has released info on a few new ideas not tried before.
The only thing I see as remotely similar to EQII is the combat and tradeskills... And even that is much different with chain, and group focused attacks and group tradeskilling.
As for the EQII team being on Vanguard... NO... Some of the people ORIGINALLY doing EQII are on the team, with a few newer ones. EverQuest II in 2000 was a much much much different concept then the EQII we have now.
I seriously doubt the games will be the same... Maybe a few similar concepts, but they wont be the same.
If Brad was happy about EQ2, I don't think he would have left the well paid job at SoE just to make another clone of EQ2 called Vanguard.
It doesn't really make sense.
Probably he had too many restrictions from SoE and he didn't like the way EQ2 was heading.
My guess is that Vanguard will be what EQ2 should have been and it s not............the true sequel of Everquest.
To be honest I think Brad wants to make Vanguard much more similar to EQ than any other game out there, and I am hoping he gets it right.
Actually, it was said by the devs that EQII wasn't the original name for for the game...
Can anyone say... Vanguard?
I like to correct Ste! I must have a social disorder!
Okay, MMORPG that are similarly or more group oriented as EQ:
- DAoC, FFXI, SWG past-CU, EQ2...
Note that not 1 MMORPG is true to soloers, not even WoW or CoH, they all turn into grouping/raiding/PvP whores.
I hardly see what is innovative in not having a solo focus because you have an online argument.
Sigil, been targetted at the hardcores, is still, despite all the logical hopes, my best hope, for a hardcore soloing game!
Who do you think can make a hardcore soloing game in that list of so-called MMORPG? WoW and hardcore does goes into the same sentence, althought Afterlife lure quite a few hardcores into that WoWish trap. A little like a Siren's call. PvE hardcore solo games dont exist. In fact, Baldur's GatesII: Throne of Bhaal is the closest thing to a hardcore PvE soloing game I have ever try...
Hardcores tend to attract the casuals and keep them playing, since casuals motivation dwindle a lot and they need some far away stuff to focus on...and help at their side. Thereby, it is logical to assume that hardcore raiders attrack casuals raiders better, and that hardcores soloers attract casuals soloers better as well...
Casuals, when they see someone be level 60 in 3 days, lose some interest, when they see a friend of them reach the level limit in a month, and after 3 months they are not there, they would need encouragement to keep going...but guess what, the hardcore is not playing anymore to encourage him!
Solo uberness should not help in grouping or raiding, but neither should grouping or raiding uberness help in solo.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
They have stated that soloing will be in the game, but it wont be a primary focus. Soloing will probably end up something you do to pass the time until you can get a group.
Soloers should get exp, but not nearly the loot and exp of a group... MMOs are social.
And most people don't realize... More and more people are actually becoming more hardcore raiders. Look at EQ, there are more raiding guilds now then there were 4 years ago.
So yes, expect soloing, but don't expect it to be a main focus.
As for how challenging it will be... That all depends on you.
See, even the Japanese recognize that Pearl Harbor was a mistake. The Japanese have no option to sign peace with the USA after Pearl Harbor. The raiding games can sign peace with the Solo giant.
Even if you would have a hundred times more raiders, you would be a tiny minority! To be a good ''social'' game, you must first be a good solo game.
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
The day MMORPG's are driven towards solo play as the primary focus is the day I stop paying a monthly to play with thousands of other people and go back to games like Morrowind. I applaud Sigil on sticking too what they promised, which was a game that re-captured the greater aspects of old EQ 1.
I am not gonna keep paying companies a monthly fee so I can be unsocial and a recluse.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
Yeah it wasnt Pearl Harbor that forced peace. It was Harry Truman, the Enola Gay and 2 big bombs..
Make a difference!
I like to correct Ste! I must have a social disorder!
Lol I know you like to contraddict me.
Anyway let me clarify.
What I was trying to say is that there is not a pure Raid/group oriented MMO around at the moment, except EQ, and maybe DAoC. (And they are ancient games, we need fresh meat!!!!)
I wasn't suggesting that any other game is solo friendly, what I was saying is that the majority are hybrids wich don't attract neither the group focused players nor the Solo oriented people.
Now, if Vangard for once make the decision to advertise this game as group/raid oriented, we can safely say that it is a step forward for all people that like this kind of play style, because it won't be corrupted by too much solo content.
I agree that out there, solo player need also a game that is challenging but mostly solo, and I also agree that at the moment there are not many such games around.
But please don't try to change this game by complaining the lack of solo focus, because behaving this way we will just create the right environment for another EQ2, and no one wants that.
Have you notice the way SOE add new features in the game as soon as someone complaints?
-People complaint about lack of solo content, and SOE nerf the encounters and add more solo quests.
-People complaint of lack of PVP, and SOE implement a new PVP system.
-People wants a Auction House system and a mail system ala WOW, and they add them in the game.
I mean I don't want this crap to happen to Vanguard too.
Sigil said already that it will be group oriented, please accept it, if people don't like it there are other games out there like D&L, Darkfall, D&D, LoTR, Irth Online, which are similar to Vanguard style.
Maybe one of them will be more solo friendly.
I suggest to all solo players to redirect their complaints to D&D and LoTR, I am sure Turbine are willing to listen
PS: Btw I do like solo too, but at the moment what I need is a good kick ass raiding game, and I hope Vanguard will be it.
Bye..
Noone cares..you are but one fish in this giant ocean.
Back to your Sand box now...Next time read up more before you assume something.
If your too slow the door will hit you btw.
Nobody is perfect...My name is Nobody
Despite everything,
Vanguard is still my best hope for a hardcore solo game. And if Vanguard dont do it, the fact soloers ask Vanguard rather then even bother with Blizzard may make a competitor understand what a good solo system need!
(Blizzard take the most popular individuals features and assemble them together, they never visualised the final product to understand anything really, but they relly on partial visions from players and Veto or limit their influence so to hold on individually popular features...Coke may be the best soft drink, Pepsi may be the second best, a mixt of Coke and Pepsi is not necessarily good)
- "If I understand you well, you are telling me until next time. " - Ren
Ignorance, total ignorance Fadeus...no wonder you're such a fanboy of SWG post CU. Lets set the record straight since peeps like you dont seem to grasp basic concept like solo play.
Soloing doesnt make me a recluse and anti-social. It just means I dont want to pay a monthly fee and then be at the mercy of some kiddies for my fun. I dont want to log in, spend an hr looking for the right group doing the exact right mission Im working on, wait for everyone to revive cause some cowboy cant control his attack or pet, etc.
When I and many others say "solo" we mean... log in and go kill whatever and wherever we like. Get halfway through and decide to go elsewhere ? No problem cause we answer to only ourselves. Feel like going for another hour ? Sure, cause as a solo player we dont have to quit because half the group dropped out soon as they got the one loot they only came for.
After a night soloing whatever I want. I then head in to the cantina/bar/med center/ auction house, and do my socializing there. I buy stuff, chat, heal up, emotes for laughs, and more. I would hardly call this being a recluse.
Ultimately, its peeps like you that rail against us solo players cause you think we're out to play Morrowind. Thats not the case, I want players to chat with while Im killing stuff (even if they're not right next to me). And the night is never complete without finishing off in someplace like IF auction house for some chatter.
Guess you didnt get your wish though with SWG so Im guessing you're quitting ? You dont want to play alone, well all the servers are light and probably 1/3 quit and more to follow.
EQII and WoW are raiding games?... Since when?
We're talking REAL raiding games, where raids are tough and require you to listen and be on alert. EverQuest II and WoW raids are nothing like that, they're for the soloers (WoW more then EQII).
Vanguard is concentrated on interactive gameplay. You WILL be able to solo, but it will probably be while waiting to get a group.
Hell, even their diplomacy system (if I remember correctly) is for the soloer.
The soloers have their games. The people that want a little group and raid action need a new one now. EverQuest is turning into a carebare game, so it doesn't count anymore.
Admiker444, sorry if I disagree with you, but if you say that EQ2 and WoW are raid games, than you never played a proper one, or if you did, you never bothered raiding too much.
Those 2 are not even close to the intensity and quality of EQ.
Even my 8 y/o sister can lead a raid in EQ2 and WoW.
Take care
I'm not sure which WoW you're referring to, but if you try to solo any of the endgame raid content in World of Warcraft, say..Molten Core...you'll be a pile of smoking ashes before you make it ten feet in the doorway. World of Warcraft is definitely solo-friendly, even solo-encouraged up to level 60, but it's nothing but hardcore raiding and pvping in the endgame. Basically, it's a casual gamer's paradise until the endgame, at which point there's nothing left but hardcore material.
Now, I don't begrudge the pro-grouping crowd their fair share of games (it's just as valid a playstyle as soloing), but it will never be a playstyle that appeals to me personally. In fact, it's unappealing enough that I'm just playing MUDs while waiting for a couple of beta applications to get accepted, and those betas will just be places to pass the time until a company finally releases something that really appeals to me.
The one universal theme I've found in pickup groups is this: efficiency trumps fun. There is no stopping to smell the flowers in a pickup group. There is no changing of plans in a pickup group. Pickup groups are about getting the most experience in the shortest time possible, or they're about finishing the quest in the most efficient way possible. If anyone stands in the way of those goals, they're chaff.
I have no doubt that the pro-grouping faction disagrees completely with my assessment, and that's fair enough. We're all entitled to our opinions, after all. For me, it's the persistent world that attracts me. I like the fact that the game won't end until the servers are finally shut down. I also like the background noise of chatter, the activity of a thriving playerbase. Do I want to be forced into some co-dependent relationship with those people? Absolutely not, but I do want them to be there. I enjoy roleplaying, I enjoy chatting, I just don't enjoy doing it while I'm attacking wildlife or doing delivery missions. Everquest was the first MMO I ever played, and it nearly turned me off of the entire genre. If it weren't for Asheron's Call, I likely would never have played another MMO again.
Fortunately, there are a lot of game developers out there, and MMOs are big business. If this game company doesn't design what I look for in a title, another will eventually. I'm rather certain I won't be missed much, either, which works out well for everyone. There are certainly plenty of people who enjoy the whole group dependency thing, and apparently Vanguard is being created to satisfy that segment of gamer. I just wish some of the people making solo-friendly games would A) hurry up, and
stop adding grouping-centric endgame content! Bah humbug.
Anyway, cheers. I hope this game turns out to be exactly what you're looking for, because it's certainly dropped off my own list. With luck, we'll both find satisfaction sometime in the near future.
First off... comparing EQ2 to Vanguard is like comparing a VW Bug (EQ2) to a Corvette (Vanguard). It all depends on what kind of car you like.
EQ2 is the "instance whore" personified. Vanguard is going to have NO instancing.
EQ2 has zones and zone lines. Vanguard is one smooth world.
If you are a soloer, Vanguard is not for you.
If you are a power gamer and expect to reach max level in 2 months, Vanguard is not for you.
If you liked the original EQ + Kunark + Velious... Vanguard is the game for you.
Well said Nova but apparently most feel its criminal if the game isn't all things to all people anymore.
- Scaris
"What happened to you, Star Wars Galaxies? You used to look like Leia. Not quite gold bikini Leia (more like bad-British-accent-and-cinnamon-bun-hair Leia), but still Leia nonetheless. Now you look like Chewbacca." - Computer Gaming World
The original eq(up to SoL and even a bit after) Was a great solo game...if you were the right class.
Pure casters we often able to solo most blue mobs and if you had the correct gear even the fighters could solo all the way to 60. And when SoL came out with the AA's the game was over for mobs unless there was a serious round of nerf's handed out(and there was.
Now i am the type who enjoys solo hunting and grouping maybe with one or 2 peep's that I get along with realy well. EQ was about perfect. EQII forced me too group constantly, might be becouse I had done the betrayal quest but still....I hated it.
I had actualy forgotten about Vanguard but now hearing the rumblings that it may make it to the xbox360 I am going to take another look. If it will allow a health amount of solo play and only force me to group for big raids then I will be all over it. As long as it's xbox360.
I Soooooo hate pc's right now. Working on one at the moment but in a month or so when I got the cash this thing is getting chucked for an iMac. And this is a fast machine.
Just a shade over a gig of ram, 2+gig processor with a radion 9600 with 256 ram onboard and it's little better then a paperweight becouse it's running on XP.
sorry for the rant. think there is a line or 2 that is on topic.
Cuskarie