I'd say there are a few problems with an EQ type game now.
1. Time. I played EQ a ton when I had more time than I do now.
2. Social. EQ was a chat room with a game attached or a game with a chat room attached. Now social media is more widespread there's less reason for people who want to chat to join a social game. That doesn't mean there isn't a demand just a smaller one.
Having said that I still think there's a market for a game that has key elements which have been lost imo
1. Open world based on a consistent lore
2. most XP from mobs
3. most gear/special items/faction/money from (optional) quests
which leads into
4. Freedom
Having an open world design and most of the exp coming from mobs means every time you log on there can be a dozen or more spots you can go to level. Having lots of optional quests where the reward is something other than XP means you can pick and choose which quests you want to do and which to skip depending on if you need/want the reward. Also if outside mobs are generally weaker and soloable while dungeon / camp mobs are tougher and groupable then you can cater to both types of player.
There needs to be a solo option because of time and mood limits but the group option should be built in for weekends and sociable moods.
The leveling would need to be faster than old EQ but not too much.
Lost XP on death is good as not dying should be a test of skill but only if difficulty level is controllable.
Quests should all work.
edit: what i don't want and won't play any more is linear conveyor belts.
And why would "realistic" be desirable in video games where the goal is to entertain. I laugh out loud when people put "realism" and "magic" in the same paragraph.
I know right, like in the movies, why would anyone make a realistic movie like Schindler's List, when they could be entertained by Transformers the Movie!
Exactly .. games are more like transformer than schindler's list .... there is no good 'drama' games (except the indie effort Gone Home).
I'm not a huge fan of waiting these days either, but that shows I've lost some of my patience. I believe having to rest and heal after a fighter is more realistic (doesn't kill immersion) and find that getting your health/magic back to full after a fight is dumb. I'd rather have something in between. Make it so your health and magic don't come back. You have to go to a town and rest to get it back. Let the player restore health (but not magic via potions(but has a finite amount)). They can also restore via magic if they have spells. This would mean people don't have to rest all the time, but they also can't keep killing non stop. Eventually they have to town and restock/rest.
Really? More boring stuff before players can really play.
And why would "realistic" be desirable in video games where the goal is to entertain. I laugh out loud when people put "realism" and "magic" in the same paragraph.
I say it is super realistic to take 2 second to charge all the mana back because that is how "realistic" magic work. If you don't believe me, ask David Copperfield.
I don't really understand how you are entertained by non stop mindless killing in most cases, but it seems those are the games you like. I'm attempting to put some measure of strategy into the gaming without having the burden of having to sit constantly. The strategy I put up there would be great for a non instanced game IMO. It would stop people from camping and force them to think about what they are doing instead of mindlessly running around and clicking on exclamation marks/following GPS. They would have to plan their trip, how long it will take, and how far they can go before coming back. To me this would be a lot more entertaining then what you see in a game like Diablo 3. I'd also like to see more choices in combat. Have different equipment for different and combat abilities for different situations, but only allow you to use a finite amount of abilities at once. That at least makes you figure out what will work and won't work. Magic is a source to me, but it is only for magic users. Health is a determination of how much one can take before death. Magic can restore health, but health doesn't just regenerate back to full after a fight IMO. Can it be that way? Sure it can be any way a developer wants it to be, but it sure doesn't make any sense to me and it detracts from the game for me.
I really don't understand how you are confused between "strategy" and "boring and easy mode down time". Is there any strategy in waiting for regen .. i think not.
Now strategy in using skills, optimizing DPS, those I am all for .. waiting .. not so much.
I'm not a huge fan of waiting these days either, but that shows I've lost some of my patience. I believe having to rest and heal after a fighter is more realistic (doesn't kill immersion) and find that getting your health/magic back to full after a fight is dumb. I'd rather have something in between. Make it so your health and magic don't come back. You have to go to a town and rest to get it back. Let the player restore health (but not magic via potions(but has a finite amount)). They can also restore via magic if they have spells. This would mean people don't have to rest all the time, but they also can't keep killing non stop. Eventually they have to town and restock/rest.
Really? More boring stuff before players can really play.
And why would "realistic" be desirable in video games where the goal is to entertain. I laugh out loud when people put "realism" and "magic" in the same paragraph.
I say it is super realistic to take 2 second to charge all the mana back because that is how "realistic" magic work. If you don't believe me, ask David Copperfield.
I don't really understand how you are entertained by non stop mindless killing in most cases, but it seems those are the games you like. I'm attempting to put some measure of strategy into the gaming without having the burden of having to sit constantly. The strategy I put up there would be great for a non instanced game IMO. It would stop people from camping and force them to think about what they are doing instead of mindlessly running around and clicking on exclamation marks/following GPS. They would have to plan their trip, how long it will take, and how far they can go before coming back. To me this would be a lot more entertaining then what you see in a game like Diablo 3. I'd also like to see more choices in combat. Have different equipment for different and combat abilities for different situations, but only allow you to use a finite amount of abilities at once. That at least makes you figure out what will work and won't work. Magic is a source to me, but it is only for magic users. Health is a determination of how much one can take before death. Magic can restore health, but health doesn't just regenerate back to full after a fight IMO. Can it be that way? Sure it can be any way a developer wants it to be, but it sure doesn't make any sense to me and it detracts from the game for me.
I really don't understand how you are confused between "strategy" and "boring and easy mode down time". Is there any strategy in waiting for regen .. i think not.
Now strategy in using skills, optimizing DPS, those I am all for .. waiting .. not so much.
I just explained it all in my post. It was an alternative to downtime. There is not really any down time. You just have to go back to town to rest once in a while. It's like driving a car. You stop for a few minutes at the gas station to refill. This keeps the player moving instead of staying stationary. It helps in a non instanced environment to keep people from camping spawns non stop. It makes the player or group think about how far they can venture into the world.
Combat is generally a joke in MMOs today. Try to play Dark Souls if you really want a challenge combat wise.
Totally agreee with this post,, i just havent felt a true connection to a game since the old eq days. Finding a good mmo these days seems to be very tough, iv spent countless dollars on MMORPGs that i play for less than a month and get sick of.. All i know is im glad to see the WOW clones and that specific style dieing out and more of a sandbox style of gaming coming back. Now i know EQ wasnt a sandbox but because of its content and difficulty , it sort of gives u a sandbox feel. EQ id say was a good mix of themepark and sandbox.
Sick and tired of games that hold your hand and basicly give u everything. I need some hardship and i want danger to be lerking in every corner. i dont need anyone to guide me, i want to figure it all out on my own or with a guild.
They reason it failed was because he has a somewhat infamous reputation and his kickstarter was more like "hey, let's just throw some ideas around, try for less than we need and make regular things such as crafting "stretch goals"
Whatever - he was the guy who made the original EQ and created Vanguard. He has a proven track record of creating the kind of games you claim that people really want? Guess what they don't want them..
I played a ton of EQ - I'd wager as much as anyone on this board. And its simply just not that good compared to modern games. It's low skill cap/heavy grind/explotative gameplay just won't fly in the modern era. Spending 100 hours camping for the Monk epic? Carrying stuff reduces your ability to fight? Yeah sure that will fly. Go play some project 1999 if you need to refresh your memory.
The current "big 3" blow the doors of EQ.. GW2/ESO/Wildstar.. but not just in my mind - in the minds of anyone given a choice between these scenarios - playing reskinned EQ and playing a modern game. EQ was COMICALLY explotative. He was hey we don't think anyone is REALLY going to play x amount of hours - but hey if they DO play a 1000 extra hours we will give them a epic!
Want to just sit there and make health rods for hours on end? If you do maybe you can get a piece of epic loot from a raid... EXPLOTATIVE to the max..haha. They just suckered addicts putting in comical time sinks that you guys reminesce fondly about. What should w do to prevent them from leveling too fast. I know have them STARE at a book where the words never change! Hahaha.
How can you people seriously think this would be popular enough to redo. The 20 million (min) it would cost to redo the graphics would never be recouped. McCaid couldn't raise a laughably small amount of money for his game. This idea is just dead in the water. In all seriousness you guys are missing out by passing the modern games. Its a little different as they are not 'front loaded" with difficulty but even the easiest most casual MMO ever made can be challenging (GW2)..
A troll doesn't force his opinions on others. He tries to get emotions out of others.. disrupts discussion and so on and so on. There are a lot of ways to trolling. I really like the urban dictionary.. and therefore:
The reason that kickstarter failed is because it was Brad and he lost his rep with Vanguard. All these other MMOs that are trying it are indie stuff and have real shit graphics and are really hard to care about as a result.
EQ for its day had amazing graphics and people were excited to explore that world as a result. We need a AAA developer to bring us this experience again, sadly that wont ever happen...
Not disagreeing with OP but is EQ even like that now? All the old greats have had a easymode makeover more than once as their 'answer' to modern easymode MMOs.
His kickstarter is total bad , what he show are only his name and hope use that name to get millions $ support.
And his name pretty damaged.
How you think people will support when you show no things aside empty promise?
He did get $ 40k , but look at how he deal with that money make people wonder if they will support him again.
All the promise he wrote are good , but it too early for him to get the kicks , Bad management is only thing i can say.
Star citizen and Elite were in the same shape though elite was past the concept stage and had a Dev with a good team there, SC not so much like this case.
I completely agree with every single thing the OP said. I miss the days of Classic EQ, but dreaming for something like that is going to do nothing but harm you. It will NEVER happen and holding other games up to those standards is going to only make you hate them faster.
WoW made sure to cement what all mmos need to be like now. Which flies in the face of what EQ was, EQ isn't even EQ anymore. Which is weird because the guys who made WoW are all admitted EQ1 addicts and made WoW because they loved EQ1 so much. And in turn destroyed the thing they loved with their own monster, and also a lot of help from SOE making god damn awful expansions by the dozen.
EQN will be the same as all other mmos are now. It will be a "sandbox" which really just means the quest grind is going to be disguised as something else, like GW2. And sandbox actually just means you can build shit because we all know that Minecraft is the only way a game can be a sandbox. Everquest is DEAD, and it has been dead for a long long time. Everquest 2 is a disgrace, and Everquest Next will be nothing like Everquest besides names and races.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
I completely agree with every single thing the OP said. I miss the days of Classic EQ, but dreaming for something like that is going to do nothing but harm you. It will NEVER happen and holding other games up to those standards is going to only make you hate them faster.
WoW made sure to cement what all mmos need to be like now. Which flies in the face of what EQ was, EQ isn't even EQ anymore. Which is weird because the guys who made WoW are all admitted EQ1 addicts and made WoW because they loved EQ1 so much. And in turn destroyed the thing they loved with their own monster, and also a lot of help from SOE making god damn awful expansions by the dozen.
EQN will be the same as all other mmos are now. It will be a "sandbox" which really just means the quest grind is going to be disguised as something else, like GW2. And sandbox actually just means you can build shit because we all know that Minecraft is the only way a game can be a sandbox. Everquest is DEAD, and it has been dead for a long long time. Everquest 2 is a disgrace, and Everquest Next will be nothing like Everquest besides names and races.
EQ is the original theme park and the actual reason for the current state of mmo gaming so kindly stop making wow the Antichrist when at best it was only a Horseman with EQ being the actual Antichrist.
They reason it failed was because he has a somewhat infamous reputation and his kickstarter was more like "hey, let's just throw some ideas around, try for less than we need and make regular things such as crafting "stretch goals"
Whatever - he was the guy who made the original EQ and created Vanguard. He has a proven track record of creating the kind of games you claim that people really want? Guess what they don't want them..
Don't care about the rest of your opinionated rant, but this highlighted part is just wrong.
He was a co-creator for EQ and yes was a big part of the vision and design, but he was just a developer. Smed handled the business end and that's why EQ actually made it.
For some reason somebody thought he could manage his own company and thus Vanguard was born. Vanguard is publicly viewed as the true successor to EQ1, but died horribly because he couldn't run a business for shit. The millions were mismanaged, time schedules were failed, and beta testing was a nightmare. I should know I beta tested it and preordered the CE hoping for a miracle to happen prior to launch to make it playable. That was back in the day before we realized that every mmo was going to launch broken.
Vanguard to the core was incredible and would of crushed every other game. The truth is that it was broken in almost every way. My friends and I stuck around for a few months fighting through the broken quest lines, broken crafting, missing content, god damn awful lag, disconnects when zoning (even though it was supposed to be seamless).
He made a game we wanted but he sucks complete ass as a boss and shit the bed. And this is a prime example of why his new game is only vapor ware.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
I completely agree with every single thing the OP said. I miss the days of Classic EQ, but dreaming for something like that is going to do nothing but harm you. It will NEVER happen and holding other games up to those standards is going to only make you hate them faster.
WoW made sure to cement what all mmos need to be like now. Which flies in the face of what EQ was, EQ isn't even EQ anymore. Which is weird because the guys who made WoW are all admitted EQ1 addicts and made WoW because they loved EQ1 so much. And in turn destroyed the thing they loved with their own monster, and also a lot of help from SOE making god damn awful expansions by the dozen.
EQN will be the same as all other mmos are now. It will be a "sandbox" which really just means the quest grind is going to be disguised as something else, like GW2. And sandbox actually just means you can build shit because we all know that Minecraft is the only way a game can be a sandbox. Everquest is DEAD, and it has been dead for a long long time. Everquest 2 is a disgrace, and Everquest Next will be nothing like Everquest besides names and races.
EQ is the original theme park and the actual reason for the current state of mmo gaming so kindly stop making wow the Antichrist when at best it was only a Horseman with EQ being the actual Antichrist.
Yeah.... no. Theme parks didn't exist back then. So since you don't know I will explain what a theme park is to you. So you go to Disneyland and you go through the park and get on all the rides, going from theme to theme. Adventure land, Frontier land, etc.. Each ride leads you to the next ride, and to the next. Until you finish them all and you are next to the next theme area to start again.
This is what WoW brought to the mmo space. EQ1 didn't have rides (quest hubs) it had continents with different level ranges of mobs. And in these zones you could pick a spot, there was usually a favored area, and get some friends together and massacre mobs for hours. There were plenty of spots throughout the world that would suit the needs different level players.
WoW instead put in hubs where you go pick up all the quests at once and then take a trip on the quest rails through the zone and getting off a the end which was always just another hub for more quests that take you to the next ride... etc. etc..
Another example is traveling. Classic EQ had a few choices. A) Walk your ass everywhere Pay a druid or a wizard to teleport you somewhere near where you needed to go, or C) Walk your ass to a dock and ride a boat to another place. It made the world seem a billion times bigger and made it a trial. Making your journey seem literal and have merit.
WoW add taxis at every city or outpost that could instantly fly you to another area or across the world if you had the connection. Or you could ride your mount that goes fast as hell or just get on your flying mount and fly there yourself. Which trivializes the world and again makes it a Disneyland park.
I could go on and on but you should get the point. And I never stated that WoW was the antichrist, SOE is just as guilty with choices they made. And here are some examples of how SOE fucked EQ1 up badly and which WoW took and made worse.
Lost Dungeons of Norrath:
The birth of instanced dungeons and the death of overland leveling. Everybody just sat mindlessly in the adventure camps running these shitty dungeons over and over for loot that shouldn't have been sold on merchants in the first place.
Shadows of Luclin:
The death of the Commonlands trading tunnel and the birth of auction houses. Instead of actually interacting with people and buying/selling your goods you got to go to a giant zone of afk mummies who would over price their shit because you had no other choice now.
The first beginning of death of travel by adding Spires to take you to the moon and port you to distant parts of the world.
Planes of Power:
Completed death of travel with the PoK books, which then actually broke ships because they screwed something up and couldn't figure out how to fix it. And instead put a stupid teleporting gnome at the docks.
Made finding your spells/skills pointless because you could go to a shop in PoK and literally buy every spell to max level.
Made items BoE and BoP (I think it was this Xpac) so now instead of taking the sword I had been using and selling it for some gold towards my next upgrade or whatever I had to either vendor it or delete it. Complete slap in the face to the trading community.
Again I could go on but you see the trend. Both companies are morons that degraded the genre into watered down soup that any half wit limbless ape could master.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
So EQ was a non-structured theme park and wow a structured one. Do not get drunk with memories both games are responsible for the last decade of rehashed theme parks, a genre EQ arguably founded, and the neglect of the sandbox genre because EQ is easier to make than an EVE or UO well let alone how piss easy a structured theme park like WoW.
Originally posted by Dihoru So EQ was a non-structured theme park and wow a structured one. Do not get drunk with memories both games are responsible for the last decade of rehashed theme parks, a genre EQ arguably founded, and the neglect of the sandbox genre because EQ is easier to make than an EVE or UO well let alone how piss easy a structured theme park like WoW.
No you aren't understanding lol. EQ was not a themepark, there was no ride. And the only thing people attribute it to is the fact there were levels. You didn't start at A and ride to B and C. You started at a town or in the middle of nowhere and floundered around until you made friends and got stronger. That isn't a non structured theme park, that isn't a theme park at all.
And I'm not drunk on memories, I already gave you a pretty worthy example of how EQ sucked and how SOE ruined it. And no games copy EQ anymore, they copy WoW, which is a shitty copy of EQ. If the developers of WoW were obsessed with UO instead then everyone would be screaming at how everything is a shitty copy of UO.
And I seriously doubt any mmo is easy to make, except maybe the countless asian grinders that are literally the same thing. But I guess you will come back and counter this with another reason why EQ is a theme park instead of just getting the point.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
There aren't anywhere near enough players that would want this, of those that say they do most of those don't actually want the reality of what they are asking for.
This. What people want is that feeling and experience. I don't think that's going to happen until someone makes the next revolutionary step when it comes to online gaming. I figure we won't get it until we see full VR implemented.
The great news is that game engines are become more modular, requiring less education or research to use, and generally becoming more user friendly; Unreal Engine 4 is a pretty good example of this. While it might not be the kind of cash generator that SOE might be looking for, I can't imagine why a team of players that are into, say, EQ emulation wouldn't be interested in building a full conversion, as the barriers to entry are becoming smaller and smaller. That's not to understate the amount of effort rebuilding EQ with better textures and models might actually require, but we're certainly nearing an era where artists, and independent (or mod) developers, are becoming more capable of realizing their dreams without needing heaps of technical know-how.
This is probably the most optimism you'll see from me in a post regarding MMO's.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
You know, I'm on the fence for vanilla EQ. It was an awesome game, but it got BETTER with the expansions. Hell, even the current version of EQ isn't that bad.
Personally, I say:
Improve the graphics
Improve the crafting system. Mainly, implement EQ2's crafting system.
Speaking of which, give us non-combat classes.
Allow me to tame any monster as a pet, permanently.
Improve the Beastmaster to do this.
Housing in the open world, not instanced. Norrath is big enough for all of us.
More robust and free-form character advancement. I like AAs, but I want more variety!
Space Combat, errr....Jousting on Mounts
Give me a long, drawn out quest to become a more "powerful" class.
Meaningful PVP.
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Originally posted by Dihoru So EQ was a non-structured theme park and wow a structured one. Do not get drunk with memories both games are responsible for the last decade of rehashed theme parks, a genre EQ arguably founded, and the neglect of the sandbox genre because EQ is easier to make than an EVE or UO well let alone how piss easy a structured theme park like WoW.
I'm sorry, I will have to disagree that WoW is easier to make than EQ. EQ the content is literally just go find stuff and kill it. Quest structure alone makes WoW more difficult to to develop. EQ is really a sandbox without any of the world altering stuff that makes a sandbox interesting.
In fact, I'd argue Sandboxes are actually easier to develop than themeparks as you don't need a steady content stream in sandboxes like you do themeparks.
You know, I'm on the fence for vanilla EQ. It was an awesome game, but it got BETTER with the expansions. Hell, even the current version of EQ isn't that bad.
Personally, I say:
Improve the graphics
Improve the crafting system. Mainly, implement EQ2's crafting system.
Speaking of which, give us non-combat classes.
Allow me to tame any monster as a pet, permanently.
Improve the Beastmaster to do this.
Housing in the open world, not instanced. Norrath is big enough for all of us.
More robust and free-form character advancement. I like AAs, but I want more variety!
Space Combat, errr....Jousting on Mounts
Give me a long, drawn out quest to become a more "powerful" class.
Meaningful PVP.
Didn't SOE attempt this at EQ2's launch? You had to do a quest to decide your base class then a quest at level 10 and 20 to decide your final choice of class. Then people started complaining it was dumb and it took to long to get their uber awesome skills and they scrapped it.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
You know, I'm on the fence for vanilla EQ. It was an awesome game, but it got BETTER with the expansions. Hell, even the current version of EQ isn't that bad.
Personally, I say:
Improve the graphics
Improve the crafting system. Mainly, implement EQ2's crafting system.
Speaking of which, give us non-combat classes.
Allow me to tame any monster as a pet, permanently.
Improve the Beastmaster to do this.
Housing in the open world, not instanced. Norrath is big enough for all of us.
More robust and free-form character advancement. I like AAs, but I want more variety!
Space Combat, errr....Jousting on Mounts
Give me a long, drawn out quest to become a more "powerful" class.
Meaningful PVP.
Didn't SOE attempt this at EQ2's launch? You had to do a quest to decide your base class then a quest at level 10 and 20 to decide your final choice of class. Then people started complaining it was dumb and it took to long to get their uber awesome skills and they scrapped it.
The quest, in all honesty, wasn't difficult or long at all. It was a lot of running around, sure and talking to a NPC of that class.
Besides, I wasn't really implying the EQ2 version. I was implying another SOE game
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
You know, I'm on the fence for vanilla EQ. It was an awesome game, but it got BETTER with the expansions. Hell, even the current version of EQ isn't that bad.
Personally, I say:
Improve the graphics
Improve the crafting system. Mainly, implement EQ2's crafting system.
Speaking of which, give us non-combat classes.
Allow me to tame any monster as a pet, permanently.
Improve the Beastmaster to do this.
Housing in the open world, not instanced. Norrath is big enough for all of us.
More robust and free-form character advancement. I like AAs, but I want more variety!
Space Combat, errr....Jousting on Mounts
Give me a long, drawn out quest to become a more "powerful" class.
Meaningful PVP.
Didn't SOE attempt this at EQ2's launch? You had to do a quest to decide your base class then a quest at level 10 and 20 to decide your final choice of class. Then people started complaining it was dumb and it took to long to get their uber awesome skills and they scrapped it.
The quest, in all honesty, wasn't difficult or long at all. It was a lot of running around, sure and talking to a NPC of that class.
Besides, I wasn't really implying the EQ2 version. I was implying another SOE game
Is the game you are implying the game that shall not be NG... errr.. named?
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
You know, I'm on the fence for vanilla EQ. It was an awesome game, but it got BETTER with the expansions. Hell, even the current version of EQ isn't that bad.
Personally, I say:
Improve the graphics
Improve the crafting system. Mainly, implement EQ2's crafting system.
Speaking of which, give us non-combat classes.
Allow me to tame any monster as a pet, permanently.
Improve the Beastmaster to do this.
Housing in the open world, not instanced. Norrath is big enough for all of us.
More robust and free-form character advancement. I like AAs, but I want more variety!
Space Combat, errr....Jousting on Mounts
Give me a long, drawn out quest to become a more "powerful" class.
Meaningful PVP.
Didn't SOE attempt this at EQ2's launch? You had to do a quest to decide your base class then a quest at level 10 and 20 to decide your final choice of class. Then people started complaining it was dumb and it took to long to get their uber awesome skills and they scrapped it.
The quest, in all honesty, wasn't difficult or long at all. It was a lot of running around, sure and talking to a NPC of that class.
Besides, I wasn't really implying the EQ2 version. I was implying another SOE game
Is the game you are implying the game that shall not be NG... errr.. named?
Fight Club and that other game share something in common: We can't talk about them
Raquelis in various games Played: Everything Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6 Wants: The World Anticipating:Everquest NextCrowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Comments
I'd say there are a few problems with an EQ type game now.
1. Time. I played EQ a ton when I had more time than I do now.
2. Social. EQ was a chat room with a game attached or a game with a chat room attached. Now social media is more widespread there's less reason for people who want to chat to join a social game. That doesn't mean there isn't a demand just a smaller one.
Having said that I still think there's a market for a game that has key elements which have been lost imo
1. Open world based on a consistent lore
2. most XP from mobs
3. most gear/special items/faction/money from (optional) quests
which leads into
4. Freedom
Having an open world design and most of the exp coming from mobs means every time you log on there can be a dozen or more spots you can go to level. Having lots of optional quests where the reward is something other than XP means you can pick and choose which quests you want to do and which to skip depending on if you need/want the reward. Also if outside mobs are generally weaker and soloable while dungeon / camp mobs are tougher and groupable then you can cater to both types of player.
There needs to be a solo option because of time and mood limits but the group option should be built in for weekends and sociable moods.
The leveling would need to be faster than old EQ but not too much.
Lost XP on death is good as not dying should be a test of skill but only if difficulty level is controllable.
Quests should all work.
edit: what i don't want and won't play any more is linear conveyor belts.
Exactly .. games are more like transformer than schindler's list .... there is no good 'drama' games (except the indie effort Gone Home).
I really don't understand how you are confused between "strategy" and "boring and easy mode down time". Is there any strategy in waiting for regen .. i think not.
Now strategy in using skills, optimizing DPS, those I am all for .. waiting .. not so much.
I just explained it all in my post. It was an alternative to downtime. There is not really any down time. You just have to go back to town to rest once in a while. It's like driving a car. You stop for a few minutes at the gas station to refill. This keeps the player moving instead of staying stationary. It helps in a non instanced environment to keep people from camping spawns non stop. It makes the player or group think about how far they can venture into the world.
Combat is generally a joke in MMOs today. Try to play Dark Souls if you really want a challenge combat wise.
Totally agreee with this post,, i just havent felt a true connection to a game since the old eq days. Finding a good mmo these days seems to be very tough, iv spent countless dollars on MMORPGs that i play for less than a month and get sick of.. All i know is im glad to see the WOW clones and that specific style dieing out and more of a sandbox style of gaming coming back. Now i know EQ wasnt a sandbox but because of its content and difficulty , it sort of gives u a sandbox feel. EQ id say was a good mix of themepark and sandbox.
Sick and tired of games that hold your hand and basicly give u everything. I need some hardship and i want danger to be lerking in every corner. i dont need anyone to guide me, i want to figure it all out on my own or with a guild.
-Ny't
They reason it failed was because he has a somewhat infamous reputation and his kickstarter was more like "hey, let's just throw some ideas around, try for less than we need and make regular things such as crafting "stretch goals"
Whatever - he was the guy who made the original EQ and created Vanguard. He has a proven track record of creating the kind of games you claim that people really want? Guess what they don't want them..
I played a ton of EQ - I'd wager as much as anyone on this board. And its simply just not that good compared to modern games. It's low skill cap/heavy grind/explotative gameplay just won't fly in the modern era. Spending 100 hours camping for the Monk epic? Carrying stuff reduces your ability to fight? Yeah sure that will fly. Go play some project 1999 if you need to refresh your memory.
The current "big 3" blow the doors of EQ.. GW2/ESO/Wildstar.. but not just in my mind - in the minds of anyone given a choice between these scenarios - playing reskinned EQ and playing a modern game. EQ was COMICALLY explotative. He was hey we don't think anyone is REALLY going to play x amount of hours - but hey if they DO play a 1000 extra hours we will give them a epic!
Want to just sit there and make health rods for hours on end? If you do maybe you can get a piece of epic loot from a raid... EXPLOTATIVE to the max..haha. They just suckered addicts putting in comical time sinks that you guys reminesce fondly about. What should w do to prevent them from leveling too fast. I know have them STARE at a book where the words never change! Hahaha.
How can you people seriously think this would be popular enough to redo. The 20 million (min) it would cost to redo the graphics would never be recouped. McCaid couldn't raise a laughably small amount of money for his game. This idea is just dead in the water. In all seriousness you guys are missing out by passing the modern games. Its a little different as they are not 'front loaded" with difficulty but even the easiest most casual MMO ever made can be challenging (GW2)..
His kickstarter is total bad , what he show are only his name and hope use that name to get millions $ support.
And his name pretty damaged.
How you think people will support when you show no things aside empty promise?
He did get $ 40k , but look at how he deal with that money make people wonder if they will support him again.
All the promise he wrote are good , but it too early for him to get the kicks , Bad management is only thing i can say.
If someone saying 'My preference is different' to a discussion is 'disruptive' you have a very strange definition on what a 'discussion' is.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
I am waiting for EQN EQ1 and 2 I only looked at too old for me but it looks good.
my next great hope for a mmo is EQN,ESO disappointed me and I am not even interested in wildstar.
The reason that kickstarter failed is because it was Brad and he lost his rep with Vanguard. All these other MMOs that are trying it are indie stuff and have real shit graphics and are really hard to care about as a result.
EQ for its day had amazing graphics and people were excited to explore that world as a result. We need a AAA developer to bring us this experience again, sadly that wont ever happen...
Star citizen and Elite were in the same shape though elite was past the concept stage and had a Dev with a good team there, SC not so much like this case.
I completely agree with every single thing the OP said. I miss the days of Classic EQ, but dreaming for something like that is going to do nothing but harm you. It will NEVER happen and holding other games up to those standards is going to only make you hate them faster.
WoW made sure to cement what all mmos need to be like now. Which flies in the face of what EQ was, EQ isn't even EQ anymore. Which is weird because the guys who made WoW are all admitted EQ1 addicts and made WoW because they loved EQ1 so much. And in turn destroyed the thing they loved with their own monster, and also a lot of help from SOE making god damn awful expansions by the dozen.
EQN will be the same as all other mmos are now. It will be a "sandbox" which really just means the quest grind is going to be disguised as something else, like GW2. And sandbox actually just means you can build shit because we all know that Minecraft is the only way a game can be a sandbox. Everquest is DEAD, and it has been dead for a long long time. Everquest 2 is a disgrace, and Everquest Next will be nothing like Everquest besides names and races.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
EQ is the original theme park and the actual reason for the current state of mmo gaming so kindly stop making wow the Antichrist when at best it was only a Horseman with EQ being the actual Antichrist.
Don't care about the rest of your opinionated rant, but this highlighted part is just wrong.
He was a co-creator for EQ and yes was a big part of the vision and design, but he was just a developer. Smed handled the business end and that's why EQ actually made it.
For some reason somebody thought he could manage his own company and thus Vanguard was born. Vanguard is publicly viewed as the true successor to EQ1, but died horribly because he couldn't run a business for shit. The millions were mismanaged, time schedules were failed, and beta testing was a nightmare. I should know I beta tested it and preordered the CE hoping for a miracle to happen prior to launch to make it playable. That was back in the day before we realized that every mmo was going to launch broken.
Vanguard to the core was incredible and would of crushed every other game. The truth is that it was broken in almost every way. My friends and I stuck around for a few months fighting through the broken quest lines, broken crafting, missing content, god damn awful lag, disconnects when zoning (even though it was supposed to be seamless).
He made a game we wanted but he sucks complete ass as a boss and shit the bed. And this is a prime example of why his new game is only vapor ware.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Yeah.... no. Theme parks didn't exist back then. So since you don't know I will explain what a theme park is to you. So you go to Disneyland and you go through the park and get on all the rides, going from theme to theme. Adventure land, Frontier land, etc.. Each ride leads you to the next ride, and to the next. Until you finish them all and you are next to the next theme area to start again.
This is what WoW brought to the mmo space. EQ1 didn't have rides (quest hubs) it had continents with different level ranges of mobs. And in these zones you could pick a spot, there was usually a favored area, and get some friends together and massacre mobs for hours. There were plenty of spots throughout the world that would suit the needs different level players.
WoW instead put in hubs where you go pick up all the quests at once and then take a trip on the quest rails through the zone and getting off a the end which was always just another hub for more quests that take you to the next ride... etc. etc..
Another example is traveling. Classic EQ had a few choices. A) Walk your ass everywhere
Pay a druid or a wizard to teleport you somewhere near where you needed to go, or C) Walk your ass to a dock and ride a boat to another place. It made the world seem a billion times bigger and made it a trial. Making your journey seem literal and have merit.
WoW add taxis at every city or outpost that could instantly fly you to another area or across the world if you had the connection. Or you could ride your mount that goes fast as hell or just get on your flying mount and fly there yourself. Which trivializes the world and again makes it a Disneyland park.
I could go on and on but you should get the point. And I never stated that WoW was the antichrist, SOE is just as guilty with choices they made. And here are some examples of how SOE fucked EQ1 up badly and which WoW took and made worse.
Lost Dungeons of Norrath:
The birth of instanced dungeons and the death of overland leveling. Everybody just sat mindlessly in the adventure camps running these shitty dungeons over and over for loot that shouldn't have been sold on merchants in the first place.
Shadows of Luclin:
The death of the Commonlands trading tunnel and the birth of auction houses. Instead of actually interacting with people and buying/selling your goods you got to go to a giant zone of afk mummies who would over price their shit because you had no other choice now.
The first beginning of death of travel by adding Spires to take you to the moon and port you to distant parts of the world.
Planes of Power:
Completed death of travel with the PoK books, which then actually broke ships because they screwed something up and couldn't figure out how to fix it. And instead put a stupid teleporting gnome at the docks.
Made finding your spells/skills pointless because you could go to a shop in PoK and literally buy every spell to max level.
Made items BoE and BoP (I think it was this Xpac) so now instead of taking the sword I had been using and selling it for some gold towards my next upgrade or whatever I had to either vendor it or delete it. Complete slap in the face to the trading community.
Again I could go on but you see the trend. Both companies are morons that degraded the genre into watered down soup that any half wit limbless ape could master.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
No you aren't understanding lol. EQ was not a themepark, there was no ride. And the only thing people attribute it to is the fact there were levels. You didn't start at A and ride to B and C. You started at a town or in the middle of nowhere and floundered around until you made friends and got stronger. That isn't a non structured theme park, that isn't a theme park at all.
And I'm not drunk on memories, I already gave you a pretty worthy example of how EQ sucked and how SOE ruined it. And no games copy EQ anymore, they copy WoW, which is a shitty copy of EQ. If the developers of WoW were obsessed with UO instead then everyone would be screaming at how everything is a shitty copy of UO.
And I seriously doubt any mmo is easy to make, except maybe the countless asian grinders that are literally the same thing. But I guess you will come back and counter this with another reason why EQ is a theme park instead of just getting the point.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
The great news is that game engines are become more modular, requiring less education or research to use, and generally becoming more user friendly; Unreal Engine 4 is a pretty good example of this. While it might not be the kind of cash generator that SOE might be looking for, I can't imagine why a team of players that are into, say, EQ emulation wouldn't be interested in building a full conversion, as the barriers to entry are becoming smaller and smaller. That's not to understate the amount of effort rebuilding EQ with better textures and models might actually require, but we're certainly nearing an era where artists, and independent (or mod) developers, are becoming more capable of realizing their dreams without needing heaps of technical know-how.
This is probably the most optimism you'll see from me in a post regarding MMO's.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
You know, I'm on the fence for vanilla EQ. It was an awesome game, but it got BETTER with the expansions. Hell, even the current version of EQ isn't that bad.
Personally, I say:
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
I'm sorry, I will have to disagree that WoW is easier to make than EQ. EQ the content is literally just go find stuff and kill it. Quest structure alone makes WoW more difficult to to develop. EQ is really a sandbox without any of the world altering stuff that makes a sandbox interesting.
In fact, I'd argue Sandboxes are actually easier to develop than themeparks as you don't need a steady content stream in sandboxes like you do themeparks.
Didn't SOE attempt this at EQ2's launch? You had to do a quest to decide your base class then a quest at level 10 and 20 to decide your final choice of class. Then people started complaining it was dumb and it took to long to get their uber awesome skills and they scrapped it.
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
The quest, in all honesty, wasn't difficult or long at all. It was a lot of running around, sure and talking to a NPC of that class.
Besides, I wasn't really implying the EQ2 version. I was implying another SOE game
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring
Is the game you are implying the game that shall not be NG... errr.. named?
Playing: Smite, Marvel Heroes
Played: Nexus:Kingdom of the Winds, Everquest, DAoC, Everquest 2, WoW, Matrix Online, Vangaurd, SWG, DDO, EVE, Fallen Earth, LoTRo, CoX, Champions Online, WAR, Darkfall, Mortal Online, Guild Wars, Rift, Tera, Aion, AoC, Gods and Heroes, DCUO, FF14, TSW, SWTOR, GW2, Wildstar, ESO, ArcheAge
Waiting On: Nothing. Mmorpg's are dead.
Fight Club and that other game share something in common: We can't talk about them
Raquelis in various games
Played: Everything
Playing: Nioh 2, Civ6
Wants: The World
Anticipating: Everquest Next Crowfall, Pantheon, Elden Ring