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More classes would have significantly improved this game
crysent
Member UncommonPosts: 841
Hello,
A couple things: First I currently have a VR4 Sorcerer and actually enjoy ESO. I tend to play ANY type of MMO that comes out, as long as I enjoy it. Furthermore, I enjoy almost all aspects of MMOs from raiding to pure pvp, and everything in between.
The title of my post basically says it all, and I mean it. Had they added 3 or so more classes, this game would have been so much better than it currently is, especially pvp. Particular emphasis could/should have been on support classes, I was thinking Bard, Shaman/druid and then hybrids: Monk, Ranger, Dark-knight type.
The biggest problem I have is lack of support and utility based classes, which would completely change the dynamic of PvP and raiding. Currently fight strategies are extremely limited, because of the lack of support/utility classes. I don't want them just adding more skill lines, as I believe that only pushes for more cookie cutter builds. Right now, there just isn't enough classes for a game of this type, which leads to a lack of creativity in PvP. One of the major aspects that made DAOC PvP so great in it's heyday was the variety of classes and their various roles.
Anyway, just wanted to get that off my chest.
Comments
They should have used the same the same class system (which is basically a classless system) found in the Elder Scrolls IP. Let the players make their own classes like it has always been. /shrug
edited to reflect more of what I mean.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
This^!
I think it was a fine mix of classes/unlocked skills. I don't think adding more skills or classes would be beneficial at the moment simply because they can't balance the synergy with some skills/class skills already. I assume more skills/base classes will get released in the future if the game is successful enough to warrant it, which is in question right now.
I am still enjoying the game, although I just now hit Veteran 1 so time will tell with that level of the content, hopefully Craglorn will alleviate some of the supposed grind that is Veteran leveling.
Agreed, although this is something that was said a long time ago, whilst the game was still in development. One of many in fact
All depends on what you are trying to create, for a PVP centric MMORPG a la DAOC having a plethora of classes with clearly defined and limited roles is a good way to go, in fact the current omni-class approach hinders the gameplay.
Strong Trinity supporter here, in fact, it should be expanded to 5 or 6 roles like it used to be to include CC, Puller, Speeders etc.
Single player, solo centric RPG, sure, no classes is just great.
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No classes would have improved the game, having an open world would have, having world PVP where you could see the enemy faction would have improved the game.
The problem there is that everyone would eventually be the best melee fighter, best thief, best mage or best archer.
Then everyone will have the same skills. Not very intriguing.
I would have preferred a system where you can choose from everything but would have to make hard choices about which skills can advance to the higher levels.
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Its just another one of those facepalm decisions made at ZOS HQ.
As a person who plays a support toon raiding in EQ2 and has tried most of the new MMO's released in the last 10 years my feeling is support classes have not been very popular with game developers for a long time now. What people pass off these days as a support class isn't even close to what I think of and I would blame smaller group sizes. With a 5 person and especially 4 person group size there just isn't room for a dedicated support class anymore so at best we get these hybrids where main roles can also flavor in some support here and there. You see this in pretty much all the newer big MMO's although I have not dug into Wildstar deep enough to see if it's viable to have dedicated support classes or not. By that I mean it both has to be possible to build a pure support class and it has to be desirable to fill that slot over a pure DPS class in groups. Most of the time these days more DPS solves all problems with group makeup and even EQ2 has been headed that way for some time.
I don't think ESO needs more classes but more skill lines wouldn't have hurt. A support based skill line could add a lot of variety to ESO if done right but I imagine they would need to do something like make ability synergies with each other so that the more of the line you slot the more useful they become so everyone doesn't feel they have to take one ability off the skill line.
Assuming that everyone would pick the exact same skill loadouts is the same as saying that the majority of their current skills are useless. Some might be broken for now, as what usually happens with MMOs, but I'm sure that there are enough variety of skills to accommodate various playstyles. However, those are restricted to classes. If they opened skill access to everyone then even more variety would show up. If they had a small amount of skills to choose from then yeah, you would see more of the "best" selections. However, if they kept the skill bar limited to 5 skills with a weapon swap like they do now there would still be hard choices and you would still see variety. In fact a lot more. I guess it boils down to if you want more Elder Scrolls or more MMO in the game. This is the identity crisis that is hurting this game at the moment.
EDIT: If what you said is true, then EVE wouldn't be very intriguing and I'm sure the fans and players would disagree with that. I mean it isn't for me anyways, but not becuase of the skill system but for other reasons. Yes the two games are apples and oranges, but the idea of a classless system is what I'm talking about.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Not exactly same setting but still EvE has no classes, everyone has same access to same tools. Does everyone fly same ships with same equipment? Granted if you choose to fly particular ship class then there is one or two fits better than anything else and so on but then not everyone enjoys destroyers, some prefer cruisers or even battleships (not to mention there is no universal ship).
Also there is this awfully managed and developed game called Mortal Online. Screwed game, granted, but skill system there was quite fun, just underdeveloped. Mixing it with EvE skill system and adding proper combat mechanics? You can have your holy trinity and others can have still freeform character development. It's really shame that they just went for the simpliest and most obscure solution (just put in new cloths).
You mean twentysomething pre-made classes like in all games in the IP except for Skyrim?
When did Skyrim become "the ES IP"?
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Yeah, I wondered that as well. I think it just shows the age group of gamers that post here. I wonder how much outrage there would be if you had the option of answering some questions for the game to determine your class...
You make me like charity
So OP you need more handholding where the game tells you what class you are playing?
Sorry but I love the freedom ESO provides me with. On the EU server I have a sorcerer in heavy armor with a 2handed weapon/sword and axe. I love this way because that's closer to Elder Scrolls then having pre-made classes.
While one can choose to run with the pre-made builds, one can also choose not to.
Unfortunaly it seems that those who complain about it choose the run with the traditional builds instead of experimenting within their class. I also feel it's the lack of creativity among current gen. players in this genre to is holding them back as they often resort to what they know and if it's different they need the game to tell them that.
You're not trying hard enough. It's possible to play any class in several different ways. I have a Templar, heavy armour, 2h sword, dps tank essentially. I have another Templar, light armour, heals, and a regen staff, almost unkillable, and one of those support classes you were talking about. Both my Templars are completely different because of the skills sets and choices I've made.
This game doesn't need more classes, it does need brighter players though obviously.
You pretty much nailed it, IMO.
I like the immediate attack on my character for posting my opinion.
Call me old school, but I like defined classes in MMOs, this is something I enjoy, none of your insults are likely going to change this opinion of mine.
I feel like when everyone is special, no one is. In ESO, everyone can do nearly everything that the game offers, furthermore this game significantly lacks any utility/or support skills outside of a few limited ones that are mostly confined to unique skill lines (undaunted, fighter's guild, etc..).
I don't know why you are calling me a "current gen of player" since you don't know anything about me, and the new classless model that most new age games are following is anything but what the past generation of MMO players would have experienced in all games except Ultima Online (WHICH HAD A SKILL CAP) and Ahseron's call.
Insulting me isn't going to change my opinion..
Again, personal insults are not really needed and are not likely to change my opinion.
Furthermore (and I assume you are referring to me as the less than bright player, obviously not you) - you seem to have missed the entire point of my post (which of course is on me, not you). Having one player play every single role is exactly what I am against in general.
I won't expand any further on this,because I'm guessing you will continue to tell me I don't try hard enough, or am not nearly as "bright" as you. I guess this game isn't for less than bright individuals like myself.
Ahh yes, the pre-defined classes from th ES IP. The ones that gave you bonuses to certain skills but didn't force you into using any of them. You mean those classes? Or how about the ability to custom make your own classes, did you include that in your "twenttysomething" as well?
However, even using 20 some odd pre-defined classes that gave you bonuses to certain skill lines would have been better than the 4 classes that have locked skills. I'm glad you reminded of their old class system. Thanks
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Actually morrowind's classes pretty much did force you to use the skills you were majored in. Minor skills couldn't level up in the same manner they were governed by attributes..
As for the OP
I don't see how this would change much as you can pretty much be whatever you want to be with their system.
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Really didn't mean to "attack" or "insult" you, as I asked a question. So sorry if it came over that way.
Perhaps the thing that strikes is both being old school yet both percieving ESO differently, there for I asumed you where new but I was wrong you just persieve things different then I do even if we are both old school. And I also made a mistake in thinking old school gamers would take their time due to past experiance with other games. Again I was wrong.