[Column] Warhammer 40.000: Eternal Crusade: It's Being Developed for US!

SBFord

OK, public service message delivered, let’s get to the meat of this week’s article, which is: all about the common misconceptions regarding Eternal Crusade. These are the things that we see popping up on forums everywhere we look, the things that we hear Miguel answer again and again and again in interviews and on AMA’s. The common sort of misinformation genially spread by people who don’t know better…yet. So, let’s educate ourselves a bit.

Read more of Terry O'Brien's Warhammer 40k: Eternal Crusade - It's Being Developed for US!

Grotar89

Unfortunately this game seems to be heading P2W route. And its not about f2p ork boys but about "Unique gameplay elments" that is ment for founders only

This is what Miguel says:

 

The unique pattern vehicles are variations on the theme of the basic vehicles you will get in the game. Weapons might be different and your special tank might be more anti-infantry then anti-tank. Unique Pattern Vehicles have different strengths and weaknesses to their in-game counterparts, but are balanced at the same level of power.

 

We believe that, at max upgrade, an attack bike with a multi-melta is roughly equivalent to 2 bikes with plasma guns

 

So basically they are selling stuff that is more powerful in certain situations than stuff that can be acquaired in game.

 

This is pure P2W its even worse than Star Citizen at least you can get best ships just playing the game, here there is not such an option.

Imagine smth like this in Starcraft 2, CS:GO, LOL, DOTA 2, or even in some other MMOS, if there was smth like this in Planetside 2 hell would break loose.

This stuff is completely locked to founders !!! And worse thing is devs put this thing on vote... If they cant see that this is completely wrong then imagine what kinds of P2W stuff we will see later once game is live.

 

And the worst thing is on the poll in forums people are completely fine with this, While i am writing this 103 votes are YES and 79 are NO . And ionce you read the posts on this thread you can see most of those who voted yes have no idea vote they are voting for and how this could BREAK THE GAME !!!!

 

This is all really sad I hoped we 40k fans would get finally MMO that we want, but seems its not the case.

 

And btw Miguel is dodging this question like hell. Me and other posters on forums expressed our concerns even before this poll, but all we could get from him was smth like I HATE P2W and some usual PR stuff....

Looks like he "HATES" it so much that he will make this game most obvious P2W out of them all......

 

 

turinmacleod

Behaviour has also said that non-Founders would also get access to attack bikes, albeit further down the road than Founders.

Not to mention that weapons will be upgradablle and customizable, so I don't see a real issue with uber-weapons rendering all other weapons pointless.

Do you really think that, if a weapon proves to be more powerful than it's cost, it will be left alone, unchanged? Would it even be in their best interests to allow such an imbalance?

Sorry, I don't agree with your concerns on this one at all, at least not until I see some proof that the game is going in that direction. My direct experience with the development team tells me that they are very aware of the potential pitfalls and will take all precautions against such things happening.

 

T

Dihoru

Grotar if you actually physically reached as much as you did in your post you could grab Aphrodite's boob. Sorry dude but... not seeing it even if they were founder exclusives different pattern weapons in the Warhammer 40.000 universe don't really matter that much... I mean if they get Errant pattern power armor in lieu of aquila it is basically the same shit just without the neck joint vulnerability but a severe case of stuck looking forward. The Baal Pattern Predator sacrifices all of its heavy anti-vehicle capabilities for really good anti-infantry ones but even then the heavy bolters are only really good vs infantry with heavier stuff not so easily put down (if a termie or mega nob looks at it funny it will toss it around like a hotwheels car).

 

Patterns = specialization in one way or another, if some are found exclusives I do not mind, if they make something which is called a pattern but is something else like a Contemptor or such then you get the right to bitch because the Contemptor isn't a specialized dread, it is a highly advanced one.

Grotar89

Yes it is a problem when only way to acquire it is to buy founders pack. And ppl who buy game regularly at release cant get it.

You are fighting in close quarters and one guys has

Weapon 1 that does 100 dmg with range of 50 meters

other guy has

Weapon 2 that does 150 dmg with range of 25 meters.

 

Guy 2 is gonna kill Guy 1 ( Ofc, i take it that they have same hp and armor values ) Then guy 1 is like ok I am gonna take that weapon of his since it does more dmg and is better for close fighting.

He tries to find it in game, hmm he cant. He searches the forums and finds out that Weapon 2 is available to founders only......

If you cant see how this is wrong then I am rly not surprised why the poll on EC forum is going that way.

And worse thing is that in other poll where they ask if founders should get limited time consumable xp booster, voters are against it since it would be unfair towards non founders.....

But getting weapon and vehicle that is in certain situations better than non founder weapon or vehicle is fair................

Sometimes peoples  way of thinking is rly ''weird'' .....

orionblack

I have spare income...So just like the real table top game (own 3 land raiders ...among various other ...) I will so win!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dihoru

Originally posted by Grotar89

Yes it is a problem when only way to acquire it is to buy founders pack. And ppl who buy game regularly at release cant get it.

You are fighting in close quarters and one guys has

Weapon 1 that does 100 dmg with range of 50 meters

other guy has

Weapon 2 that does 150 dmg with range of 25 meters.

 

Guy 2 is gonna kill Guy 1 ( Ofc, i take it that they have same hp and armor values ) Then guy 1 is like ok I am gonna take that weapon of his since it does more dmg and is better for close fighting.

He tries to find it in game, hmm he cant. He searches the forums and finds out that Weapon 2 is available to founders only......

If you cant see how this is wrong then I am rly not surprised why the poll on EC forum is going that way.

And worse thing is that in other poll where they ask if founders should get limited time consumable xp booster, voters are against it since it would be unfair towards non founders.....

But getting weapon and vehicle that is in certain situations better than non founder weapon or vehicle is fair................

Sometimes peoples  way of thinking is rly ''weird'' .....

Assuming a speed of 5 meters per second ... 25/5=5*100=500 damage you take just getting to hit that guy while he's laying into you. If you do not see the problem with your logic there then you need to step back and re-examine what you call logic.

Grotar89

Where did i say anything about speed or who shot first ?

If you are all fine with founders having weapons and vehicles that are better in certain situations than non founders ( who btw cant obtain those veh and weapons ) then dont cry once game turns into most obvious P2W title.

And if this is the path that they wonna fallow then I am happy that i wont be part of it. And find me 1 successful MMO where certain weapons ( not weapon skins ) are locked to founders only...

Dihoru

Originally posted by Grotar89

Where did i say anything about speed or who shot first ?

If you are all fine with founders having weapons and vehicles that are better in certain situations than non founders ( who btw cant obtain those veh and weapons ) then dont cry once game turns into most obvious P2W title.

And if this is the path that they wonna fallow then I am happy that i wont be part of it. And find me 1 successful MMO where certain weapons ( not weapon skins ) are locked to founders only...

)))))

So you want to know of games that sell or sold items which aren't obtainable by any other way than pre-purchase? GW2 comes to mind, think also SWTOR had special items, Archeage has some too, WoW sells mounts (which aren't better than ones found in game mind you but are visually distinct from them and are usually top of their range), War Thunder and World of Tanks sell premium tanks which are grind bypassers, Mass Effect 3 had rare items which would drop, with a less than a when hell freezes over, chance for MP with extremely expensive, in-game assets wise, loot boxes but not so expensive for RL money, etc,etc,etc.

Yamota

Once upon a time, games were produced to be fun and engaging and only cost a one time fee, giving the same game for everyone. That is all in the past.

These days these bloodsucking companies try to monetise every single thing. Gaming is not entertainment for them, it is big business. Some may think this is good but I miss the old days of gaming...

orionblack

Originally posted by Gorwe
Since when was WAR fair?

Lol

Says the xenos lover...>.>

 

 

Grotar89

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Grotar89

Where did i say anything about speed or who shot first ?

If you are all fine with founders having weapons and vehicles that are better in certain situations than non founders ( who btw cant obtain those veh and weapons ) then dont cry once game turns into most obvious P2W title.

And if this is the path that they wonna fallow then I am happy that i wont be part of it. And find me 1 successful MMO where certain weapons ( not weapon skins ) are locked to founders only...

)))))

So you want to know of games that sell or sold items which aren't obtainable by any other way than pre-purchase? GW2 comes to mind, think also SWTOR had special items, Archeage has some too, WoW sells mounts (which aren't better than ones found in game mind you but are visually distinct from them and are usually top of their range), War Thunder and World of Tanks sell premium tanks which are grind bypassers, Mass Effect 3 had rare items which would drop, with a less than a when hell freezes over, chance for MP with extremely expensive, in-game assets wise, loot boxes but not so expensive for RL money, etc,etc,etc.

 

And that thing I underlined applies to almost all games you listed.

I play GW2 since first beta weekend, pre-purchase items were like non permanent golem banker, some item skins that you could get in simply by playing the game and exchanging the gold to gems, and even now you can upgrade your account to Delux edition and get ''founder'' stuff.

From what I have seen WoW, ArcheAge and SW TOR none of them gave u items that are more powerful than the ones you can obtain simply by playing the game.

As for WoT it is grind hard but game is split into tiers. There are no tiers into EC all are on same battlefield.

Also Eternal Crusade is like 99% PvP game.Game that is most comparable to is Planetside 2. Did founders get exclusive vehicles and weapons that are ot obtainable in game and have better stats for certain situations?

This thing that they are planing is completely wrong. This game got things right about factions, gore, gameplay, PvP focus, but tis one thing is threatening to completely kill it before its even released.....

And it pains me to see that, sine it has imensive potential. And dev silence on this topic is not encouraging.

grigdusher

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Grotar89

Where did i say anything about speed or who shot first ?

If you are all fine with founders having weapons and vehicles that are better in certain situations than non founders ( who btw cant obtain those veh and weapons ) then dont cry once game turns into most obvious P2W title.

And if this is the path that they wonna fallow then I am happy that i wont be part of it. And find me 1 successful MMO where certain weapons ( not weapon skins ) are locked to founders only...

)))))

So you want to know of games that sell or sold items which aren't obtainable by any other way than pre-purchase? GW2 comes to mind, think also SWTOR had special items, Archeage has some too, WoW sells mounts (which aren't better than ones found in game mind you but are visually distinct from them and are usually top of their range), War Thunder and World of Tanks sell premium tanks which are grind bypassers, Mass Effect 3 had rare items which would drop, with a less than a when hell freezes over, chance for MP with extremely expensive, in-game assets wise, loot boxes but not so expensive for RL money, etc,etc,etc.

you talking about cosmetic item: gameplay exclusive item are something totally different.

Dihoru

Originally posted by grigdusher

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Grotar89

Where did i say anything about speed or who shot first ?

If you are all fine with founders having weapons and vehicles that are better in certain situations than non founders ( who btw cant obtain those veh and weapons ) then dont cry once game turns into most obvious P2W title.

And if this is the path that they wonna fallow then I am happy that i wont be part of it. And find me 1 successful MMO where certain weapons ( not weapon skins ) are locked to founders only...

)))))

So you want to know of games that sell or sold items which aren't obtainable by any other way than pre-purchase? GW2 comes to mind, think also SWTOR had special items, Archeage has some too, WoW sells mounts (which aren't better than ones found in game mind you but are visually distinct from them and are usually top of their range), War Thunder and World of Tanks sell premium tanks which are grind bypassers, Mass Effect 3 had rare items which would drop, with a less than a when hell freezes over, chance for MP with extremely expensive, in-game assets wise, loot boxes but not so expensive for RL money, etc,etc,etc.

you talking about cosmetic item: gameplay exclusive item are something totally different.

http://www.archeagegame.com/en/shop/

Scroll down on the most expensive, put your mouse over the founder's cloak, tell me what it says.

It is annoying beyond belief for people to misread, misinterpret and jump to conclusions with certain things... as long as those items do not give a advantage that can never be mitigated, objectively, by other players then complaining about them is equal to complaining about cosmetic items... why in the seven hells would you care his melta can do 40 damage more when you can deal him god knows how much damage before he even gets into range? oh he may jump you and kill you with it? would he not have killed you anyway if he got the drop on you? seriously there's so much more to talk about here than "ohmagawd they has stuff in founder pack i cannot get that can be used in game p2w!!".

As long as the items are balanced, as long as they do not perform better than any other item and as long as this remains valid it is not p2w, it is them just giving their pre-order customers a little something which won't be offered post release as a thank you but which does not break gameplay balance (he has a x pattern melta, you have a y pattern, his does 200 damage at 20 meters, yours 150 at 40, that's 600 or so damage on even ground you do to him before he applies his, after which point he will spend around 5-6 seconds more trying to catch up to your initial burst, basically you will melt his face off before he gets to you in a fair fight).

grigdusher

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by grigdusher

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Grotar89

Where did i say anything about speed or who shot first ?

If you are all fine with founders having weapons and vehicles that are better in certain situations than non founders ( who btw cant obtain those veh and weapons ) then dont cry once game turns into most obvious P2W title.

And if this is the path that they wonna fallow then I am happy that i wont be part of it. And find me 1 successful MMO where certain weapons ( not weapon skins ) are locked to founders only...

)))))

So you want to know of games that sell or sold items which aren't obtainable by any other way than pre-purchase? GW2 comes to mind, think also SWTOR had special items, Archeage has some too, WoW sells mounts (which aren't better than ones found in game mind you but are visually distinct from them and are usually top of their range), War Thunder and World of Tanks sell premium tanks which are grind bypassers, Mass Effect 3 had rare items which would drop, with a less than a when hell freezes over, chance for MP with extremely expensive, in-game assets wise, loot boxes but not so expensive for RL money, etc,etc,etc.

you talking about cosmetic item: gameplay exclusive item are something totally different.

http://www.archeagegame.com/en/shop/

Scroll down on the most expensive, put your mouse over the founder's cloak, tell me what it says.

It is annoying beyond belief for people to misread, misinterpret and jump to conclusions with certain things... as long as those items do not give a advantage that can never be mitigated, objectively, by other players then complaining about them is equal to complaining about cosmetic items... why in the seven hells would you care his melta can do 40 damage more when you can deal him god knows how much damage before he even gets into range? oh he may jump you and kill you with it? would he not have killed you anyway if he got the drop on you? seriously there's so much more to talk about here than "ohmagawd they has stuff in founder pack i cannot get that can be used in game p2w!!".

As long as the items are balanced, as long as they do not perform better than any other item and as long as this remains valid it is not p2w, it is them just giving their pre-order customers a little something which won't be offered post release as a thank you but which does not break gameplay balance (he has a x pattern melta, you have a y pattern, his does 200 damage at 20 meters, yours 150 at 40, that's 600 or so damage on even ground you do to him before he applies his, after which point he will spend around 5-6 seconds more trying to catch up to your initial burst, basically you will melt his face off before he gets to you in a fair fight).

5-6 second? 20 40 meter? you have a vague idea about the Ec combat stile?

 

why you talk about archeage gw2 wow? you have readed the article?

 

First, one of the biggest misconceptions is about what sort of game Eternal Crusade is.  Is it an RPG? Is it an FPS? Is it even an MMO? The answer to this question is: a little of each, and something new. It has some RPG elements like character growth, development and customization. It has some shooter elements, rather a lot of them actually; a variety of weapons, the use of cover and concealment, it uses third person combat rather than first person, which makes melee combat easier to integrate. It has MMO elements as well, a persistent universe with hundreds, even thousands of players all having an impact on the game world. It also has PVE elements, computer-controlled enemies, raids and dungeons. One of Behaviour’s driving principles for the game is that everything about it should make the player feel like a soldier in the 41^st millennium. I think its best described as a 41^st Millennium Battle Simulator, but that doesn’t make for a nice simple acronym, so let’s just call it an MMOG, and leave it at that.

 

this game is mmo action combat shooter and melee is not a MMORPG where when 2 weapon do the same dps are identical.

a different allocation of stat (damage rate of fire) IS the difference between two totally different weapon.

weapon are sidegrade.

Nobody is talking about "uber weapon for founder".

We talking about the fact that the game have horizontal progression, and a player when progress unlock more versatilty.

F2Waagh player weakness have less versatilty because have only one class, so they are only good in a certain situation.

So the advantage between f2waagh player and b2p player is: the versatilty of the role.

a b2p player can be effective in many role while a f2waagh player is effective in few role.

So when the game give more weapon and more vehicles to the founder is the same difference between f2waagh player and b2p player.

Founder have more versatilty an exclusive versatily.

founder will become stronger? no

founder will kill other player with a gaze? no

Founder will have more tactical choise? yes

founder will be more versatile? yes

founder will have more tool? yes

b2p player can have the same tool? no because the founder tool are exclusive.

TiamatRoar

Non-purely-cosmetic exclusive Founders Items always seemed to me like an absolutely marvelous way to make new people decide to not play your game later down the line.  Congratulations new guy. You'll never be able to experience playing that sniper just because you joined the game late.  Bet you really want to play the game now, huh?

Dihoru

Originally posted by grigdusher

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by grigdusher

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Grotar89

Where did i say anything about speed or who shot first ?

If you are all fine with founders having weapons and vehicles that are better in certain situations than non founders ( who btw cant obtain those veh and weapons ) then dont cry once game turns into most obvious P2W title.

And if this is the path that they wonna fallow then I am happy that i wont be part of it. And find me 1 successful MMO where certain weapons ( not weapon skins ) are locked to founders only...

)))))

So you want to know of games that sell or sold items which aren't obtainable by any other way than pre-purchase? GW2 comes to mind, think also SWTOR had special items, Archeage has some too, WoW sells mounts (which aren't better than ones found in game mind you but are visually distinct from them and are usually top of their range), War Thunder and World of Tanks sell premium tanks which are grind bypassers, Mass Effect 3 had rare items which would drop, with a less than a when hell freezes over, chance for MP with extremely expensive, in-game assets wise, loot boxes but not so expensive for RL money, etc,etc,etc.

you talking about cosmetic item: gameplay exclusive item are something totally different.

http://www.archeagegame.com/en/shop/

Scroll down on the most expensive, put your mouse over the founder's cloak, tell me what it says.

It is annoying beyond belief for people to misread, misinterpret and jump to conclusions with certain things... as long as those items do not give a advantage that can never be mitigated, objectively, by other players then complaining about them is equal to complaining about cosmetic items... why in the seven hells would you care his melta can do 40 damage more when you can deal him god knows how much damage before he even gets into range? oh he may jump you and kill you with it? would he not have killed you anyway if he got the drop on you? seriously there's so much more to talk about here than "ohmagawd they has stuff in founder pack i cannot get that can be used in game p2w!!".

As long as the items are balanced, as long as they do not perform better than any other item and as long as this remains valid it is not p2w, it is them just giving their pre-order customers a little something which won't be offered post release as a thank you but which does not break gameplay balance (he has a x pattern melta, you have a y pattern, his does 200 damage at 20 meters, yours 150 at 40, that's 600 or so damage on even ground you do to him before he applies his, after which point he will spend around 5-6 seconds more trying to catch up to your initial burst, basically you will melt his face off before he gets to you in a fair fight).

5-6 second? 20 40 meter? you have a vague idea about the Ec combat stile?

 

why you talk about archeage gw2 wow? you have readed the article?

 

First, one of the biggest misconceptions is about what sort of game Eternal Crusade is.  Is it an RPG? Is it an FPS? Is it even an MMO? The answer to this question is: a little of each, and something new. It has some RPG elements like character growth, development and customization. It has some shooter elements, rather a lot of them actually; a variety of weapons, the use of cover and concealment, it uses third person combat rather than first person, which makes melee combat easier to integrate. It has MMO elements as well, a persistent universe with hundreds, even thousands of players all having an impact on the game world. It also has PVE elements, computer-controlled enemies, raids and dungeons. One of Behaviour’s driving principles for the game is that everything about it should make the player feel like a soldier in the 41^st millennium. I think its best described as a 41^st Millennium Battle Simulator, but that doesn’t make for a nice simple acronym, so let’s just call it an MMOG, and leave it at that.

 

this game is mmo action combat shooter and melee is not a MMORPG where when 2 weapon do the same dps are identical.

a different allocation of stat (damage rate of fire) IS the difference between two totally different weapon.

weapon are sidegrade.

Nobody is talking about "uber weapon for founder".

We talking about the fact that the game have horizontal progression, and a player when progress unlock more versatilty.

F2Waagh player weakness have less versatilty because have only one class, so they are only good in a certain situation.

So the advantage between f2waagh player and b2p player is: the versatilty of the role.

a b2p player can be effective in many role while a f2waagh player is effective in few role.

So when the game give more weapon and more vehicles to the founder is the same difference between f2waagh player and b2p player.

Founder have more versatilty an exclusive versatily.

founder will become stronger? no

founder will kill other player with a gaze? no

Founder will have more tactical choise? yes

founder will be more versatile? yes

founder will have more tool? yes

b2p player can have the same tool? no because the founder tool are exclusive.

You are aware that that logic applies to the f2waagh player, right? Why shouldn't he have the same versatility as you? Oh you paid? well so did the founder and unlike you the founder in this case also took the risk of the game being a massive turd, get it? Rewards for investment, you will invest cash on a known quantity the founder does the same but on an unknown quantity, get it?

Grotar89

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by grigdusher

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Grotar89

Where did i say anything about speed or who shot first ?

If you are all fine with founders having weapons and vehicles that are better in certain situations than non founders ( who btw cant obtain those veh and weapons ) then dont cry once game turns into most obvious P2W title.

And if this is the path that they wonna fallow then I am happy that i wont be part of it. And find me 1 successful MMO where certain weapons ( not weapon skins ) are locked to founders only...

)))))

So you want to know of games that sell or sold items which aren't obtainable by any other way than pre-purchase? GW2 comes to mind, think also SWTOR had special items, Archeage has some too, WoW sells mounts (which aren't better than ones found in game mind you but are visually distinct from them and are usually top of their range), War Thunder and World of Tanks sell premium tanks which are grind bypassers, Mass Effect 3 had rare items which would drop, with a less than a when hell freezes over, chance for MP with extremely expensive, in-game assets wise, loot boxes but not so expensive for RL money, etc,etc,etc.

you talking about cosmetic item: gameplay exclusive item are something totally different.

http://www.archeagegame.com/en/shop/

Scroll down on the most expensive, put your mouse over the founder's cloak, tell me what it says.

why in the seven hells would you care his melta can do 40 damage more when you can deal him god knows how much damage before he even gets into range? oh he may jump you and kill you with it? would he not have killed you anyway if he got the drop on you? seriously there's so much more to talk about here than "ohmagawd they has stuff in founder pack i cannot get that can be used in game p2w!!".

 

What if we are in closed corridor where range doesn't meter ? He will surely wipe me if we start shooting at the same time, he has more dmg, my range is worth 0 then. Obviously his gun is better for close combat fighting and I cant obtain it.

Now if we had closed combat gun that is available to non founders that was better than founder one, well whats the points of it then.

It would be just better to give us exclusive fonder skin that i can show off than gun that is gimped.

Grotar89

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by grigdusher

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by grigdusher

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Grotar89

Where did i say anything about speed or who shot first ?

If you are all fine with founders having weapons and vehicles that are better in certain situations than non founders ( who btw cant obtain those veh and weapons ) then dont cry once game turns into most obvious P2W title.

And if this is the path that they wonna fallow then I am happy that i wont be part of it. And find me 1 successful MMO where certain weapons ( not weapon skins ) are locked to founders only...

)))))

So you want to know of games that sell or sold items which aren't obtainable by any other way than pre-purchase? GW2 comes to mind, think also SWTOR had special items, Archeage has some too, WoW sells mounts (which aren't better than ones found in game mind you but are visually distinct from them and are usually top of their range), War Thunder and World of Tanks sell premium tanks which are grind bypassers, Mass Effect 3 had rare items which would drop, with a less than a when hell freezes over, chance for MP with extremely expensive, in-game assets wise, loot boxes but not so expensive for RL money, etc,etc,etc.

you talking about cosmetic item: gameplay exclusive item are something totally different.

http://www.archeagegame.com/en/shop/

Scroll down on the most expensive, put your mouse over the founder's cloak, tell me what it says.

It is annoying beyond belief for people to misread, misinterpret and jump to conclusions with certain things... as long as those items do not give a advantage that can never be mitigated, objectively, by other players then complaining about them is equal to complaining about cosmetic items... why in the seven hells would you care his melta can do 40 damage more when you can deal him god knows how much damage before he even gets into range? oh he may jump you and kill you with it? would he not have killed you anyway if he got the drop on you? seriously there's so much more to talk about here than "ohmagawd they has stuff in founder pack i cannot get that can be used in game p2w!!".

As long as the items are balanced, as long as they do not perform better than any other item and as long as this remains valid it is not p2w, it is them just giving their pre-order customers a little something which won't be offered post release as a thank you but which does not break gameplay balance (he has a x pattern melta, you have a y pattern, his does 200 damage at 20 meters, yours 150 at 40, that's 600 or so damage on even ground you do to him before he applies his, after which point he will spend around 5-6 seconds more trying to catch up to your initial burst, basically you will melt his face off before he gets to you in a fair fight).

5-6 second? 20 40 meter? you have a vague idea about the Ec combat stile?

 

why you talk about archeage gw2 wow? you have readed the article?

 

First, one of the biggest misconceptions is about what sort of game Eternal Crusade is.  Is it an RPG? Is it an FPS? Is it even an MMO? The answer to this question is: a little of each, and something new. It has some RPG elements like character growth, development and customization. It has some shooter elements, rather a lot of them actually; a variety of weapons, the use of cover and concealment, it uses third person combat rather than first person, which makes melee combat easier to integrate. It has MMO elements as well, a persistent universe with hundreds, even thousands of players all having an impact on the game world. It also has PVE elements, computer-controlled enemies, raids and dungeons. One of Behaviour’s driving principles for the game is that everything about it should make the player feel like a soldier in the 41^st millennium. I think its best described as a 41^st Millennium Battle Simulator, but that doesn’t make for a nice simple acronym, so let’s just call it an MMOG, and leave it at that.

 

this game is mmo action combat shooter and melee is not a MMORPG where when 2 weapon do the same dps are identical.

a different allocation of stat (damage rate of fire) IS the difference between two totally different weapon.

weapon are sidegrade.

Nobody is talking about "uber weapon for founder".

We talking about the fact that the game have horizontal progression, and a player when progress unlock more versatilty.

F2Waagh player weakness have less versatilty because have only one class, so they are only good in a certain situation.

So the advantage between f2waagh player and b2p player is: the versatilty of the role.

a b2p player can be effective in many role while a f2waagh player is effective in few role.

So when the game give more weapon and more vehicles to the founder is the same difference between f2waagh player and b2p player.

Founder have more versatilty an exclusive versatily.

founder will become stronger? no

founder will kill other player with a gaze? no

Founder will have more tactical choise? yes

founder will be more versatile? yes

founder will have more tool? yes

b2p player can have the same tool? no because the founder tool are exclusive.

You are aware that that logic applies to the f2waagh player, right? Why shouldn't he have the same versatility as you? Oh you paid? well so did the founder and unlike you the founder in this case also took the risk of the game being a massive turd, get it? Rewards for investment, you will invest cash on a known quantity the found does the same but on an unknown quantity, get it?

 

What risk ? Devs already said game is getting made with or without our money. This is not kickstarter or founder program like Star Citizen.

People that pay for game should have equal start and then as they play they should specialize in certain things.

Dihoru

Originally posted by Grotar89

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by grigdusher

Originally posted by Dihoru

Originally posted by Grotar89

Where did i say anything about speed or who shot first ?

If you are all fine with founders having weapons and vehicles that are better in certain situations than non founders ( who btw cant obtain those veh and weapons ) then dont cry once game turns into most obvious P2W title.

And if this is the path that they wonna fallow then I am happy that i wont be part of it. And find me 1 successful MMO where certain weapons ( not weapon skins ) are locked to founders only...

)))))

So you want to know of games that sell or sold items which aren't obtainable by any other way than pre-purchase? GW2 comes to mind, think also SWTOR had special items, Archeage has some too, WoW sells mounts (which aren't better than ones found in game mind you but are visually distinct from them and are usually top of their range), War Thunder and World of Tanks sell premium tanks which are grind bypassers, Mass Effect 3 had rare items which would drop, with a less than a when hell freezes over, chance for MP with extremely expensive, in-game assets wise, loot boxes but not so expensive for RL money, etc,etc,etc.

you talking about cosmetic item: gameplay exclusive item are something totally different.

http://www.archeagegame.com/en/shop/

Scroll down on the most expensive, put your mouse over the founder's cloak, tell me what it says.

why in the seven hells would you care his melta can do 40 damage more when you can deal him god knows how much damage before he even gets into range? oh he may jump you and kill you with it? would he not have killed you anyway if he got the drop on you? seriously there's so much more to talk about here than "ohmagawd they has stuff in founder pack i cannot get that can be used in game p2w!!".

 

What if we are in closed corridor where range doesn't meter ? He will surely wipe me if we start shooting at the same time, he has more dmg, my range is worth 0 then. Obviously his gun is better for close combat fighting and I cant obtain it.

Now if we had closed combat gun that is available to non founders that was better than founder one, well whats the points of it then.

It would be just better to give us exclusive fonder skin that i can show off than gun that is gimped.

And what if he choose a different loadout without the founder gear? I mean it is situational, why would he always use it? Ah for known situations like boarding a hulk? Well then said founder would be fighting against AI mostly or against orks and one thing you most certainly do not want to do is fight an ork at close quarters.

 

There are too many unknowns here, founder gear could just end up being a side-grade to regular gear which would matter at the beginning but once you start hitting mastercrafted, artifact, etc gear you find it is not as good and drop it or keep it for a personal regalia or duels. Lets just wait and see what happens because if you raise a stink when it is an unknown you A) make the developer less likely to listen to you and, more crucially, lose credibility with the majority whom, if you bring facts to the table, would rally behind you and get things reversed but currently there are no facts, there are assumptions.

Originally posted by Grotar89

What risk ? Devs already said game is getting made with or without our money. This is not kickstarter or founder program like Star Citizen.

People that pay for game should have equal start and then as they play they should specialize in certain things.

Now I know you are being irrational: risk of being a >>turd<<, IE shit, IE Duke Nukem Forever level bad, IE CTD fest, IE Soulstorm sisters of battle exploit bad, etc,etc, at which point the founders are left with a sinking game and fewer and fewer people to fight with or against.

miguelcaron

Dear Crusaders,

Please dont fight between brothers. There is enough of that in the 40K lore.

Pay2Win means if I pay more I win more. Eternal crusade is a SKILL base game and things like sidegrade ''could'' give you a very tiny small adventage IF and ONLY IF you were able to see in the future and KNOW what situation you will meet on the battlefield. To switch ''build'' or ''sidegrade'' you need to die first. 

One of the comments really hit what we are trying to do: GIVE YOU CHOICE. Not BETTER choice but DIFFERENT choice..... sound like something you know already?? :-) Yes, exacly like when you face an oponnent on a 40K tabletop game. You CHOOSE what to use against his army but when the fight has started... Its not like you can tell your opponent: Heu!! Wait, I want to switch that Havoc with a Titan!?!?! You made you choice now you have to FIGHT with the best SKILL you can muster.

Regards

Behaviour

Miguel Caron

Studio Head, Online Games and

Executive Producer for:

Warhammer 40 000 Eternal Crusade

Chris Roberts, Star Citizen

Skype: miguel.caron

Twitter: @miguelcaron

bhvr.com

Postal13

When you say US, do you mean North America or just USA?

We like playing games up here in Canada, too, eh! So take off you hoser!

miguelcaron

Originally posted by Grotar89

Unfortunately this game seems to be heading P2W route. And its not about f2p ork boys but about "Unique gameplay elments" that is ment for founders only

This is what Miguel says:

 

The unique pattern vehicles are variations on the theme of the basic vehicles you will get in the game. Weapons might be different and your special tank might be more anti-infantry then anti-tank. Unique Pattern Vehicles have different strengths and weaknesses to their in-game counterparts, but are balanced at the same level of power.

 

We believe that, at max upgrade, an attack bike with a multi-melta is roughly equivalent to 2 bikes with plasma guns

 

So basically they are selling stuff that is more powerful in certain situations than stuff that can be acquaired in game.

 

This is pure P2W its even worse than Star Citizen at least you can get best ships just playing the game, here there is not such an option.

Imagine smth like this in Starcraft 2, CS:GO, LOL, DOTA 2, or even in some other MMOS, if there was smth like this in Planetside 2 hell would break loose.

This stuff is completely locked to founders !!! And worse thing is devs put this thing on vote... If they cant see that this is completely wrong then imagine what kinds of P2W stuff we will see later once game is live.

 

And the worst thing is on the poll in forums people are completely fine with this, While i am writing this 103 votes are YES and 79 are NO . And ionce you read the posts on this thread you can see most of those who voted yes have no idea vote they are voting for and how this could BREAK THE GAME !!!!

 

This is all really sad I hoped we 40k fans would get finally MMO that we want, but seems its not the case.

 

And btw Miguel is dodging this question like hell. Me and other posters on forums expressed our concerns even before this poll, but all we could get from him was smth like I HATE P2W and some usual PR stuff....

Looks like he "HATES" it so much that he will make this game most obvious P2W out of them all......

 

 

 

Dear Crusader Grotar89,

Humm! me doging ANY questions?!? :-) Having different opinion is not dodging.

So here it is.

-YES, being a founders and trusting a Game 18 months in advance DOES give founders adventages. TONS of them actually. This is a natural concept in our society. It exist everywhere from buying product to medical support. BUT and its a BIG BUT :-) , NONE will give them and adventage once the game is launched (we will have similar items in game but with a different look) except the fact that they will have been playing it longer than others so they ''should'' be more skilled.

-XP Booster and consumable: XP booster is made for people like ME. Maried, Executives, 2 kids, 41 years old who do not have enough time to play compare to my young student in my Squad so XP booster will NOT get me more powerfull..... It will only allow me to progress so I can still be helpfull in my squad even if I dont play as often as them. BTW, even Total Biscuit in his P2W video said that XP booster, if well done, he is ok with it and he is a tough cookie ;-)

-Last regarding sidegrade. What you are actually saying is TRUE but your conclusion is flawed mainly since PLAYERS CANT KNOW IN ADVENCE WHAT THE SITUATION WILL BE IN THE BATTLEFIELD. To switch build you need to die first (that mean if you paid... well you did not win.. your dead!) then you can switch to a sidegrade that you ''feel'' (not know) could be better but then again.... in a massive battles with hundreds of players 5 min has passed and what you felt might be irrelevent again.

Like Sun Tzu said: A plan (sidegrade) is only good until the first arrow is shoot.

Regard

p.s. As you learn to know me more. I have tons of weakness but DODGING is certainly not one of them.... quite the opposite. Looking forward to dodge your skilled attack in game Brother. :-)

Behaviour

Miguel Caron

Studio Head, Online Games and

Executive Producer for:

Warhammer 40 000 Eternal Crusade

Chris Roberts, Star Citizen

Skype: miguel.caron

Twitter: @miguelcaron

bhvr.com

 

miguelcaron

Originally posted by Postal13

When you say US, do you mean North America or just USA?

We like playing games up here in Canada, too, eh! So take off you hoser!

 

Crusader Postal13, you made my day. :-)

us meaning like I, you, we, us.... not like U.S. for U.S.A :-)

Thanks for ending my day with a smile!

See you soon on the battlefield.

Behaviour

Miguel Caron

Studio Head, Online Games and

Executive Producer for:

Warhammer 40 000 Eternal Crusade

Chris Roberts, Star Citizen

Skype: miguel.caron

Twitter: @miguelcaron

bhvr.com

DamonVile

I hope the game goes p2w. Not because I actually think there will be some outrageous advantage given to people but because it will drive away all the parasites the mmo industry has attracted with the word free.

Any game that can get rid of these people are doing something right in my books.

I have nothing against free players. I play lots of games free. But once you start to think you're entitled to everything a paying player has and games shouldn't charge for anything...you've become a parasite on the industry and you not playing will only make it better for everyone else.

miguelcaron

Important Message to all our dedicated and loving fans.

Could I please ask you to be more like the Word Bearer with the community that has yet to be ''compliant''

We will have many players that will not share your love for Eternal Crusade but please educate them like the Word Bearer and NOT like the World Eater! (you need to know the lore of 40K to get my message!!)

Convince them, Dont kill them with the truth.

Like the Emperor, the Eternal Crusade team loves ALL its fans.... even the one that dont know it yet!

Regards

Behaviour

Miguel Caron

Studio Head, Online Games and

Executive Producer for:

Warhammer 40 000 Eternal Crusade

Chris Roberts, Star Citizen

Skype: miguel.caron

Twitter: @miguelcaron

bhvr.com