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What we think we need.
Let me start off by saying that I have loved World of Warcraft since BC and think it is a solid game that defined a genre, but I have been given so much shit for saying so. However it seems that WoW replicas are what we actually want in a game. Moving on...
Wildstar is a great game, ESO was a great game too. Comparisons are inevitable at this point, however after seeing two player reactions I will say this; We think we don't want another traditional MMO like World of Warcraft. However that is exactly what we want. We want a game with all of the features of WoW, just... not WoW.
ESO had fantastic ideas that really fell short due to some bad decisions by the devs. However I believe these will be ironed out in the future. Such as the terrible grouping systems and dungeon grouping. ESO Dungeons were so much fun, yet so hard to get into one and really only worth it to run each 1 single time. Bad decisions. I think ESO should do away with the trinity and make dungeons more feasible method of leveling. Get RID of the Vet Grind or at least increase xp, why must I do EVERY QUEST. Make the Cyrodill PVP worth it.
People generally disliked ESO though, and I am not sure that fixing the issues I just pointed out would have mattered, even at launch.
Fast forward to Wildstar and the game is really polished (had a few bugs/lag, nothing like ESO though). The game is a WoW replica any way you look at it. Even the cartoon graphics people are eating them up. So I think we can see that the majority of the MMO players want an MMO that is 80% WoW and 20% new features.
What does wildstar do different?
Combat is different and very awesome imo.
Housing: doesn't interest me in the slightest buy hey it's there and its cool from what I gander.
More public interaction with quests, adventures, events and the like.
And that is about the extent of the differences, we finally have our alternative cartoon land to explore.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Comments
Eso is a themepark based off a sandbox franchise, has a lot of bugs, huge grind, and lotsof grouping issues due to excessive phasing.
Wildstar has deep crafting, robust housing, and player made battlegrounds and you call it a wow clone haha
Whatevs.
I think the vast majority will always want a WoW... because for most in the genre that was there first MMO and that means, they came from a different style of gaming entirely (non mmorpg style). Let me take that back... POLISHED WoW was their first MMO. Just saying that outright because both ESO and Wildstar out the gate are miles ahead.
Everybody else will probably want something different and would rather have a niche.
I'm in the everybody else category. I didn't really care for ANYTHING Wildstar had to offer and I had been following that ever since Carbine was created a long time ago. Very unhappy when I saw the end product, but I tried beta out anyways. ESO was never on my radar because I thought it would just be like SWTOR, but I did some research on it and was in beta within the next weeks. Loved it completely. I love the deep lore/questing/PvP that doesn't feel as head numbingly boring or contrived as I felt in Wildstar. Also loved the performance, which in beta was incomparable to any I previously tested. Of course realism matters to me so..that part was an obvious choice.
In the end it really just comes down to preference. And right now the majority prefer post Vanilla WoW's style AND polish. We'll see what happens when "Titan" or the large amount of AAA sandboxy MMOs come out. There has not been a polished AAA sandbox out the gate yet. But I think following WoW's route is incredibly silly for ANY developer to do now that Wildstar is up and running. So things are going to finally get interesting in the MMORPG genre again, I feel.
Even Carbine says they followed WoW on purpose. Sure they added "other minigames", but minigames are not a sandbox.
Sorry but the crafting and housing aren't minigames. Who cares if the devs emulated a lot of good aspects from wow. Doesn't make it a clone. You guys can stomp your feet and scream wow clone all day long. Doesn't change the fact that there are many major features in this game that wow has never had in its entire history.
I think eso has its place in the mmo sphere and so does ws.
How did he bash WS? He said it's a good game...
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
oddly,i kinda have to agree with this. i really dont like wildstar not cause it's bad,i actually find it to be very polished for a launch title. An has alot to offer,it's just not my cup of tea.
The ironic thing, is that devs have known this for years now. And yet we still continue to criticize them for 'not listening to the players' and for 'creating another WoW clone'.
And it really comes down to a few irritating truths.
1) Accessibility sells. WoW was so successful because it was accessible to everybody. Literally anyone could get into it. Even a small child could get into that game.
2) Polish. It's no secret that everyone wants a polished game. We are increasingly less tolerant about unpolished games. But what does this mean? This reinforces #1. By tailoring your game to a pre-established design model (WoW's), you free up significantly more time to tweak and tweak and tweak some more. This is why a game like WildStar can release so polished. Because the game has very little depth in its mechanics, so the developers have way more time to focus on making the experience feel more refined (which is what most gamers pay attention to).
By comparison you can look at ESO. A lot of people hated that game, and it had a lot of problems, but look at what they actually did with that game. That was literally the first MMO where the ENTIRE game world phased around what you were doing. Think about that for a second. Does wildstar have entire zones that will drastically change based on how you performed a quest? Nope. But no one cares, because it feels familiar and is significantly less buggy. ESO didn't have anywhere near as much time to refine it's game, because what they were implementing was new. There was no prescedence for mega server tech or a 100% phase-based, story-driven questing system.
3) Most of the games that have failed, were actually a result of devs listening to their players. Very few games have failed because of devs ignoring their playbase. SWG NGE is often brought up as an example of devs ruining a great game by ignoring their fans. However, the changes were made specifically to deal w/ data they got from their fanbase, that showed players wanting something different.
And that's the problem w/ MMOs. There's now millions of people w/ their own opinions. And it's always the games that cater to the lowest common denominator that seem to succeed.
Don't get me wrong, WildStar is a really well made game. However, it also paints what (one would hope) is a glaringly obvious example of what myself (and the OP) have described above.
You summed up my feelings perfectly ty sir
.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I whole-heartedly agree. Sad but true. I always try to see past a game's faults because there is always the possibility for growth, but for many ESO was doomed before it even launched. But I saw what they were trying to accomplish and the goal was admirable. Wildstar gives us a nice themepark playground we are all used to, with a few twists. It certainly wasn't the technical achievement that ESO was, but it is playable, social, and fun and that is really what matters to most people.
I would argue that Rift has everything and more to Wildstar (PVE-WISE) but that game never gained steam for some reason, probably due to Rift being terrible on low-end machines, especially at launch. unplayable even.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
If this statement is true, then why is Rift not the most successful game of all time? Or for that matter Runes of Magic... or SWTOR... or FFXIV....
Their post history says otherwise. But I will edit my post since it is not productive.
ArcheAge looks OK, i really hope it surprises me. I have wanted to try a sandbox game, I just hope there are more sandbox features than farming and pirates, it seems that is the basis of sandbox in that game. Again, hope I am wrong. Tell me I am wrong!
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Would you agree Rift was one of the closer attempts at a successful formula, that not too many were up in arms about compared to say ESO and SWTOR? I think a better indication over retail success is just how much outrage there is over a particular design/formula. COmpare the forums here for FFXIV and for rift to SWTOR, ESO and a few others. The games that attempted to change up the leveling experience into something more presentable get all kinds of flak for it. On the other hand, those like WS, rift and FFXIV are relatively quiet in terms of outrage. It's quite interesting to me TBH. Especially considering much of the hate toward ESO, SWTOR etc.. was that they were themeparks (WOW clones). You don't really see that on the Rift or WS forums. It's weird TBH.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I will admit, I was VERY Skeptical, still kind of am as a low level. I am going on player reception here, and have yet to make up my mind. It does seem you are a fanboi though, so I am not going to argue with you. I secretly wish we could have had Blade and Soul instead but w/e. I gave Carbine $60, I am giving it a fair shake.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Their post history says otherwise. But I will edit my post since it is not productive.
I will admit, I was VERY Skeptical, still kind of am as a low level. I am going on player reception here, and have yet to make up my mind. It does seem you are a fanboi though, so I am not going to argue with you. I secretly wish we could have had Blade and Soul instead but w/e. I gave Carbine $60, I am giving it a fair shake.
You're free to check my post history as well
I'm not a fanboy.
No matter what you write, both games are what they are and it's pretty easy to see.
Rift was lacking any serious PvP, SWTOR was lacking Endgame, FFXIV combat was slow and PVP was non-existant. That is why Wildstar is a better comparison to WoW, because like WoW, I think it manages to be Jack of all Trades.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Would you agree Rift was one of the closer attempts at a successful formula, that not too many were up in arms about compared to say ESO and SWTOR?
When Rift launched, it was polished and the events were the next step in dynamic content. But man, I think the achilles heel of that game was just how incredibly tiny it was when it launched.
Since launch it has added a TON of systems and content as well as tripling the land mass. Even if it had launched with say, housing and instant adventures, I think it would have been a much bigger hit.
Every game is what it is lol good point bro!
Sure Rift didn't launch to the same amount of bad press that ESO/SWTOR did, though perhaps that's because no one cared as so few people were playing it and it wasn't tarnishing a beloved IP.
Of course games like TOR/ESO are going to be bottom heavy it takes a lot more time and effort to create their content, I do feel you're pretty much correct though, it's the "jack of all trades" thing that really matters. Aesperus summed that up quite well though.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I Loved Vanilla Rift. I agree with IA and Dimensions at launch it just may have took off. I have yet to see public events in any game compare to Rift's zone events. Really wish that game took off, I think SWTOR and GW2 took all it's spotlight.
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
How does any MMO "tarnish" an IP especially an IP that is not focused on MMORPG gaming? Anyway You might be right about a lack of interest, I mean look at the wildstar forum and it's activity compared to say ESO a couple months back, it's night and day in terms of traffic/new posts.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I've played and liked both WoW and Wildstar.
If Wildstar is a WoW-clone, then every other mmo is as well.
It's a very polished individual fun game. Calling it a clone of something undermines it's identity.
It does so many things so much better than other theme parks.
..Cake..
Good job cherry picking some minor details to try and explain away why history overwhelmingly indicates that your theory is wrong.
I don't view them as clones I just view them as games within the same genre, they're as similar to each other as games in any other genre.
I think it boils down to the focus from a player's standpoint. People seem to prefer the approach Rift,FFXIV, WS have taken over the approach ESO/SWTOR/TSW have (The former have taken The WOW approach). Many treat the content the same in large part regardless of presentation/focus (IE skip it as much as possible). The people who are into the latter seem to be those who invest in their focus, the story related parts. I'd fall into that group, I really have no interest in any themepark form of endgame. SO I'd prefer my themepark experience be something more akin to an RPG experience. Once that's done I pretty much am. Hence why WS, Rift and WOW serve none of my themepark interests.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson