I agree with 2 on that list. Eve and Dark fall only because they remain relevant today. The others are subjective. This needs Wow on it. Any list about MMO's in any capacity could feature Wow in it.
I don't understand why EVE is #1, a game where grieving, scamming, playing 3-4 accounts at a time is considered hardcore? A game where the PvP is all about out numbering your opponent 30 to 1? EVE looks shiny and all, it came a long way from it's first years of being released, but it's all a deception thanks to do the lame business decisions of CCP. The only time you'll see some fair fights is when 2 alliances agree to fight each other, otherwise you can forget it. Thanks to the kill boards, everyone wants to keep their record all nice and tidy, but by doing so, end up being the biggest bunch of sissies in MMO gaming history. There's nothing hardcore any more about EVE-Online.
It used to take 8+ months to level to max and you had to be on call 24/7 for world spawns if you wanted any end game gear. You also had to compete for those world spawns with guilds that payed thousands of dollars for claiming bots. 3-5 days camps for world spawns were the norm and an average day consisted of at least 9-12 hours of daily world spawn camps.
As of right now your list is spot on - at least for the NA market. I wonder if the addition of ArcheAge, Black Desert, and other new games might be pushing some of these games out of contention within the next couple of years.
What passes for a Sci Fi mmorg tends to be more like a mmfps.
EVE will never, ever be confused with a mmfps. It definitely deserves to be #1 on this list, sci-fi or not.
Razeekster: "If logging on and clicking a couple buttons to increase a couple skills and then logging off is hardcore then I guess EVE is super hardcore lol"
If that's what you think EVE is, then you really didn't play it. And if you did, and still feel that way, it explains why you were so bad at it. Don't know why you added "lol" at the end of your comment, because the joke is on you.
Sorry, but you're wrong. The first months of the game are very much like that. I'm not one to pay for a subscription game that is basically Farmville for the longest, most boring-induced time.
Also, Eve is not hardcore. The only hardcore part about it is its overblown reputation where you see videos of large-scale battles that practically never happen unless a few alliances agree to duke it out. Otherwise the playerbase is made up of a bunch of scared children who gank new players because they aren't actually skilled enough to face people of their own rank.
UO, that was savage that game. Even Day Z and EVE wasn't as savage and you can die in them where UO you can get stuffed up and still be left alive. Now I think about it, you can do that to people in Day Z and EVE too.
Originally posted by serialMMOist I agree with 2 on that list. Eve and Dark fall only because they remain relevant today. The others are subjective. This needs Wow on it. Any list about MMO's in any capacity could feature Wow in it.
Darkage of Camelot and Everquest are basically theme parks. Labeling them as hardcore is ludicrous. That shows that you really do not grasp what the term hardcore is.
There are a bunch of hardcore indie games in the process of coming out. You could have picked any of them to fill out the list.
MUAHAHAHAHAHA "themeparks" did you learn that term here @ mmorpg.com? That statement shows just how clueless you are! I actually feel bad for you though. Just another Xbox gen gamer who learned everything they know about gaming from IGN an Youtube.
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Im shocked WoW didnt make that list, this is a game where the devs admit that only about 1% of the players see all the content.
In everquest as of the 10 year anniversary there is over 3000 items that have never been discovered by players. Not a couple over 3000 items!!! I also garantee 0% players have seen all the content even after 15 years of people playing it not even the devs have probaly seen everything this game has in it to be honost.
This is a fairly accurate list. Except for the end.
With the exception of Eve and Darkfall, these MMORPGs are not still around.
Dark Age of Camelot has been WoWified to hell and back, it doesn't even remotely resemble what it used to be.
Ultima Online added elves and samurai and stripped all the hardcore features out a long time back. This game no longer resembles the world of Ultima, nor the hardcore style it used to be.
EverQuest has been chipping away immersion for convenience every year since its release, and eventually crossed the threshhold where I wouldn't call it hardcore anymore.
But yes, Darkfall and Eve are both fantastic.
As for EQ case here there are private servers like project 1999 that tries to keep the game identical to how it was in 1999, and there also the progressional server for EQ1 that they pop out a new server occasionaly which i would think to be alot like it was in its hay day for a time being, i havant had the pleasure to play one though when it just opened up
Regarding the comments comparing WoW to EQ at launch. There is no comparison.
EQ at launch was punishingly difficult. I'd say about 90% of today's gamers would rage quit by level 10.
You were dropped in the world, with no map and no compass. It was the first 3D mmo, so let me tell you it was really easy to get lost. Need some new shoes, doh how did I just spend an hour looking for the cobbler in Qwynos? Also at night, it was DARK and it was really hard to see where you were going.
Most classes could not solo an even con, or it would be a really close fight. If you were soloing you were best to stick to blue mobs.
Unless you were playing one of the few classes that had run speed boost, every mob could out run you. There was no running away unless you were near a zone line or a guard post. The mob would catch you and kill you.
Aggro mobs were everywhere, even when you were careful you could get killed by someone else's train. Google eq dungeon train and see what kind of screen shots you come up with.
You lost xp for every death and you could lose your level due to a death.
No ressing at the graveyard and paying some gold. When you died you had to retrieve your corpse no matter where it was because all of your gear stayed on it. So that meant a naked corpse run to where ever you were to get your stuff back. You can imagine what that was like in aggro areas or at the bottom of a dungeon. (As a side note people were usually really good, even in pugs about making sure everyone was able to get their corpse back. Much different I think than today) Also, you ran back from your bind spot where ever that might have been. Forgot to bind on this continent? Sorry Charlie looks like you have a boat ride and a few dangerous zones to cross to get back to your body. (Unless you were playing at higher levels and had a cleric in your group to res you)
There was encumberance, you could only carry so much gear and so many coins. I got 500 copper pieces from these mobs, do I drop that or this rusty mace, or run to the bank? (Low level looting where every copper counts)
Also, the grind was pretty bad, it took a long time to level, much much longer than WoW at launch or any modern game.
The only harder game I ever played was UO at launch and that was only because of griefers. The pve in UO was actually easier than in EQ. Same with EVE. I only played that for a short time, but I think it is the other people that make that game so difficult.
There are things I haven't listed, but you get the idea. Like I said, I never played L2 or AC, but EQ was by far the most challenging mmo I ever played, but also the best. To the person who said a themepark can't be tough, I'm guessing you didn't play them back in the late 90's, they were different then.
Bottom line, you can't compare today's mmos, or anything that has come out in the last 10 years for that matter to EQ in terms of difficulty.
To roughly quote Samuel L. Jackson in Pulp fiction, it ain't the same ballpark, it ain't the same league, hell it ain't even the same sport".
So many feature on this list i miss so much in today gaming, corpse running being one of them to be honost and havignt o group due to soloing was hard or not worth it being another. Surprisinly encum,berance is also on the list for me aswell cause it may be tedious but it add alot of choice and immersion to the game trains were fun to and unpredictable which the unpredictable element is missing in alot of the games nowadays
I'll dare saying Asheron's call should be number 1or 2 on the list. It's indeed shame not mention Asheron's call. Darkfall:UW is a joke compare to Darkfall 1 The Original.
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77 CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now)) MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB PSU:Corsair AX1200i OS:Windows 10 64bit
I have good memories of UO, i want the JAIL system back hehehehehehe.
I remember that you could have beeing attacked and killed by pvp players anywhere, and inside the cities, the only way for you to prevent a pvp to walk around is if SOME BODY says GUARD in the chat!!!!
That was awesome, i rememember how fun it was to be in jail :P hahahaha paying for your crime ^_^ it was very much more RPG then today : (
Also the run for your corpse thing hahahaha all naked :P it was so funny ^_^
I loved that you could place your house in a nice spot in the map, and put your stuff inside any way you wanted. Very cool, SWG had the same thing, but hey, UO is UO ^_^
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Im shocked WoW didnt make that list, this is a game where the devs admit that only about 1% of the players see all the content.
HAHAHAHAHA, you made my day. Really nice irony dude
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.? -Albert Einstein
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write. So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.
Comments
How is old school FFXI not on this list?
It used to take 8+ months to level to max and you had to be on call 24/7 for world spawns if you wanted any end game gear. You also had to compete for those world spawns with guilds that payed thousands of dollars for claiming bots. 3-5 days camps for world spawns were the norm and an average day consisted of at least 9-12 hours of daily world spawn camps.
It was a full time job.
Sorry, but you're wrong. The first months of the game are very much like that. I'm not one to pay for a subscription game that is basically Farmville for the longest, most boring-induced time.
Also, Eve is not hardcore. The only hardcore part about it is its overblown reputation where you see videos of large-scale battles that practically never happen unless a few alliances agree to duke it out. Otherwise the playerbase is made up of a bunch of scared children who gank new players because they aren't actually skilled enough to face people of their own rank.
Smile
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
What's so hardcore about WoW?
MUAHAHAHAHAHA "themeparks" did you learn that term here @ mmorpg.com? That statement shows just how clueless you are! I actually feel bad for you though. Just another Xbox gen gamer who learned everything they know about gaming from IGN an Youtube.
In everquest as of the 10 year anniversary there is over 3000 items that have never been discovered by players. Not a couple over 3000 items!!! I also garantee 0% players have seen all the content even after 15 years of people playing it not even the devs have probaly seen everything this game has in it to be honost.
As for EQ case here there are private servers like project 1999 that tries to keep the game identical to how it was in 1999, and there also the progressional server for EQ1 that they pop out a new server occasionaly which i would think to be alot like it was in its hay day for a time being, i havant had the pleasure to play one though when it just opened up
So many feature on this list i miss so much in today gaming, corpse running being one of them to be honost and havignt o group due to soloing was hard or not worth it being another. Surprisinly encum,berance is also on the list for me aswell cause it may be tedious but it add alot of choice and immersion to the game
trains were fun to and unpredictable which the unpredictable element is missing in alot of the games nowadays 
Hope to build full AMD system RYZEN/VEGA/AM4!!!
MB:Asus V De Luxe z77
CPU:Intell Icore7 3770k
GPU: AMD Fury X(waiting for BIG VEGA 10 or 11 HBM2?(bit unclear now))
MEMORY:Corsair PLAT.DDR3 1866MHZ 16GB
PSU:Corsair AX1200i
OS:Windows 10 64bit
I have good memories of UO, i want the JAIL system back hehehehehehe.
I remember that you could have beeing attacked and killed by pvp players anywhere, and inside the cities, the only way for you to prevent a pvp to walk around is if SOME BODY says GUARD in the chat!!!!
That was awesome, i rememember how fun it was to be in jail :P hahahaha paying for your crime ^_^ it was very much more RPG then today : (
Also the run for your corpse thing hahahaha all naked :P it was so funny ^_^
I loved that you could place your house in a nice spot in the map, and put your stuff inside any way you wanted. Very cool, SWG had the same thing, but hey, UO is UO ^_^
HAHAHAHAHA, you made my day. Really nice irony dude
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.? -Albert Einstein
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.