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[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Craglorn - Is It What We Want?
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
With the release of patch 1.1.0, players have been debating if this is the type of PvE End Game they want to spend their subscription fee on. Trials, daily quests, and an entire zone dedicated to doing group content, is it what we want?
Read more of Ryan Getchell's Elder Scrolls Online: Craglorn - Is It What We Really Want?
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This is how dailies makes me feel in sub based MMOS.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Yeah, I think the average gamer actually doesn't want any innovation at all, they really want the same tried and tested mechanics over and over again, just disguised in such a way that it's not too obvious...
They're ok in a f2p environment though?
Sorry, but the last time ESO tried to "give us what we want" they started us off in main cities instead of starter islands, and scaled things back a bit to accommodate those that wanted to skip those islands. And it was the wrong choice, paying attention to the vocal minority instead of noting that the majority wasn't complaining - and had no reason to.
So I really don't care what "we" want, because I realize that this "we" generally does not include most of us.
- Nellus
actually in beta one of the biggest complaints was the game felt to "forced" and linear right off the bat.. so their solution was to start in the city instead of the island.. can't say it helped a lot because you still should go to the island or you miss out on some skyshards of the xp though.. but it was a way to try and do something that a majority of people requested..
That game was ( maybe still is ) a very good chance for something a bit different. I found many things innovating in this game. The main problem is that even almost 3 months after the official release of the game, we are still playing a beta version of it.
EU server should be online upon the launch of this game. Craglorn and at least one more similar area should also be around with the release of the game, for the default place of our VR leveling.
There's a disconnect about what represents the "majority". A quick guess at the active posters versus the number complaining told me then that it was far from a majority, unless there was an on-site polling I missed?
Even aside from that point.. it simply creates a backwards line prior to the forward one, which still makes it linear. It was a ridiculous "solution", and better to give those who wanted to go directly past the starter island the option to do so right away than actually force them forward - which is the "forced" feeling they were trying to avoid in the first place. I would assume nearly all players go back for the shard anyway, so all it did was create an extra step.
It was my first clue that I wouldn't be spending more than the original 30 days free before letting ESO sit for awhile, and that turned out to be exactly what happened. Not a purchase I regret, though. I'll give it a shot at some point later, not that +1 matters to the population whatsoever.
- Nellus
again not saying the solution was good the game is linear and there is nothing they could really do to change that since the entire story is designed in a completely linear fashion... i'm curious though you honestly think a game company would make a decision like that based on a few vocal minority? that is a pretty naive way to look at things if you really believe most game developers operate like that.. A lot of the data they collect is from the /feedback players leave during beta periods on top of forum posts on top of internal testing and such..
Regardless the complaint is pointless... most ppl on these forums are complaining for no reason... except only to complain. ESO.. is a themepark... why would you expect a themepark game to not be linear on any level.. it defies common sense.
All of the ppl who complain about ESO are ppl who are not in touch with reality... It is an amazing game for what it is... there is not a game that is better... ( at least better to the degree that ESO deserves.. the crazy amount of hate.) I'm not saying that there arent' games that fit ppl's playstyles and desired systems better... but as far as typical themeparks go.. I haven't played one that is in anyway better.
I can't understand why it is so difficult to accept that the game isn't meant for you and to just move on to something else.
looking at your join date you been here awhile so you should know mmorpg.com=trolls paradise.. i have been a lurker of these forums for a very long time and it never changes and mods don't really care it seems so it will never end..
Yeah.. i know.. but they post with the confidence and authority of one "who knows all and is always right", instead of a person with a preference for certain types of games.. it's really immature and annoying.
If several different ESO scenarios were posed to me, out of context, I would say that a game company would not operate like that. So, I don't apply the logic of studios who have been at this to awhile to ZOS, whose inexperience has really shown in nearly every aspect.
I also want to clarify something, since you said "few vocal minority", in case you think I'm under the impression it was just a handful of people complaining. It wasn't. It was a fairly large number of players, but still not the majority of people testing. I'm trying to figure out what percentage I would put on it if I were to fathom a guess, but I really can't. I'll just say it DID seem like a lot, and I understand why they reacted the way they did - it just happens they implemented a very poor, patchwork solution.
Either way I think the term "we" when it comes to any playerbase, or MMO players in general, is a very dangerous concept. WE don't want anything. Many of us want one thing, many want another, and some will never be happy no matter what they get. That's the main point of what I said originally.
- Nellus
a troll will be a troll will be a troll.. but of course there really are no trolls just defenders of the blind fanbois!! :P
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
There are ways to pay attention to groups of people without throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
So, per your example, some players felt the starter islands were boring. From what I understand it was a "your mileage may vary" as some factions were deemed more interesting than others.
So, instead of reviewing the quests, flow, etc. of those starter islands they just opted to be heavy handed about the whole thing and move people to a place in the game that just didn't make sense. And then created an equally heavy handed and confusing way that led people right back to the starter islands.
That's not listening to their players and giving them what they want. It's listening to the players and creating a shallow solution that makes no sense.
Not a directly equal example but I feel it's like someone putting a vase on a mantle and another person saying "oh, I don't think that vase goes there" and then the first person agreeing and smashing it with a hammer and saying"your right that's much better".
when all they had to do was move the vase to a different surface.
Not quite right but that's the type of thing I feel Zenimax did. applying a nonsensical solution to a situation.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
what other option did they have? every zone is setup in a very linear fashion where the overall story follows from zone to zone to zone.. so aside from remaking the entire world avoiding the starter island was about the only option they had.. The starter islands are pretty small compared to a standard zone which makes the game feel even more enclosed.. so starting in one of the main zones at least gives an initial sense of openness than forcing you into the tiny starter island with no delves no anchors or anything but basic starting quests..think that was all they were trying to achieve.. with what they had set i don't really see another choice
I would say rewrite the quest.
Though I felt the starter islands weren't that big of a deal as far as time goes, the quality of the Aldmeri Dominion starter island was better than the Ebonheart pact.
The Aldmeri dominion had a story that was straightforward, had interesting characters and was reasonably engaging.
The Ebonheart Pact? "Go out and find our people and get them back here so we can escape". And then everyone you found had some issue that had to be solved before you made your way to an equally lackluster "oh, we're being attacked" scenario.
It really was dreadful.
Now, your point is well taken in that "at that point" maybe it was too late. But I highly suspect that if people were making those comments in beta then perhaps people also noticed it in closed beta and alpha.
It just wasn't great writing in my opinion and for a story based/quest based game it seems like they might want to nail that sort of thing down before they make it to "holy crap, we release soon".
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
i do agree AD had by far the best starting area.. honestly felt AD had the best story overall easily.. but even if they rewrote the other factions quests for the islands the actual zones would still be small and confined which was the whole issue to begin with.. they made that decision towards the end of beta so wasn't like they had time to completely re-do the islands
the game is abject trash. it was marketed as a pvp/rvr game and they spend most their effort on pve garbage. craig was horrible. I didnt get much entertainment value from it at all, it was all bland and mostly the same things over and over. hell they couldnt even mix up the monsters in the dungeons, there was like 3-4 that had different monster mixes out of the 12 or so there.
then you have a pvp game where you allow a class (sorcs) to escape combat when they please, lol. such garbage design. Croydiil was set up good, and they destroyed it. Thier way of balancing the game is constant and most often unannounced nerfs.
they rushed the game and they destroyed their player base in record time, I got to say that was probably the worse launch I ever seen from an mmo.
oh and the kicker to all of it?! like fucking retarded noobs, they put all the controls into the client so you are looking at hackers and bot paradise.
but yea, I know the fan bois will be mad at me for pointing out the obvious, and if you are happy spending $15 a month on a game that ran better in beta, then all the power to you. frankly i couldnt stomach giving that garbage team another cent for the mismanaged trash they put out on a constant basis.
mind you I was there for the pvp, and patch 1.1 just absolutly destroyed all the fun of that. I think you will be lucky to ever see another full campaign on 3 sides in that game ever again.