Originally posted by Athono With the latest update they have added 2 new instances that are tactical flashpoints which means they don't play the same way each time. They are a little different each time you play. I think this was impressive 2 instances from an update.
The term "tactical flashpoint" doesnt mean they are different every time, it means you don't need a tank or healer to run them. Yes, the shipyard is different each time you play, but thats not what "tactical flashpoint" elludes to. The czerka corp FPs have "tactical" versions as well. I rolled a healer. When I run group instances, I want to heal. If you are a tank or healer in a tactical FP, though still slightly usefull, you are essentially slowing down the group. The fact that they haven't added a single trinity/hardmode flashpoint to the game since the czerka ones last year has me quite concerned. If they would continue doing what they did with czerka, where they release 2 versions of the dungeons, tactical and hardmode, that would have been awesomw, but unfortunatly the last 3 that they added are tactical only....as a healer, that has me being a sad panda.
I am a sorc healer and not once has anyone complained about me slowing down the group...maybe you need to work on your dps...granted its not the best but if you have decent gear you are not slowing anyone down...not sure what your are talking about.
As for tanks they can put out pretty good dps also...for example in MR HM FP the 1st boss ive seen tanks take down the main boss before the other two can down the two adds...again being a tank or healer does not slow down the group....
I never once said people complained to me about slowing them down, nor did I imply that healer or Tank DPS couldn't be adequit to complete TFPs in a normal amount of time. No matter how you want to phrase it or attempt to dismiss me, no healer or tank will output as much DPS as a pure DPS, plain and simple. I have had no issues what so ever completing tactical flashpoints as a healer, but unless you are a DPS, the group is slower than it would be with 4 pure DPS players, you really can't argue or debate that so I am really confused as to why you would try.
Again, I never once said or implied that having a tank or healer in a group "gimps" the run, but swap out that tank or healer with a pure DPS, and the group is that much more powerful/faster.
My point also wasn't that healers and tanks slow down the group, my main point is that I rolled a healer in order to heal challenging content, I want content that requires the class/spec that I chose and have the most fun playing.....you replying to me questioning the amount of DPS that I output as a healer is the exact thing I take issue with regarding TFPs...I want to focus on healing, not DPS. Give me more Czerka TFP/HMFPs please, and less TFPs only.
To your main point those aspect are still in the game...you don't have to run the Tac FP. Usually when I run a Tac with my healer I still find time to heal, which I also think helps out the group. Instead of a dps getting low on hp having to stop dps and run over and click on a healing station, I toss down an AOE heal usually enough to heal everyone up they don't need to stop dps and away we go.
I agree though I want more HMFP but im not going to say give me only what I want and less of what others want...there is nothing wrong with having a good selection of both for all gamers to enjoy not just what we want.
Ya, I never once said add more of what I want, and less of what others want. When they released the Czerka FPs, they each had 2 modes...tactical, and hardmode. I've said twice already that they should have kept doing that, but instead the last 3 FPs they added were tactical only, leaving us trinity folks out to dry. Iv said all along, add content we both want, tactical and hardmode. They have already done it with the Czerka FPs, so it shouldnt be that hard. I raised a very valid point. Dismissing me as someone "wanting more of what I want, and less of what others want", when I literally said the opposite twice now (iv even highlighted them in blue for you), is pretty telling..
Originally posted by Gravarg That's the problem I have with F2P games. The development team spends more time creating fluffy bunny ears for the item shop, than they do content for you to play.
Because in a F2P game, Fluffy Bunny Ears are what actually brings in the cash. Only subscription games sell game play.
Ummm... I really think some people aren't in touch with reality. SWTOR has raiding (called Operations), various different Flashpoints, and PvP at end game. Just like every other game on the market. How are those not end game exactly? SWTOR's end game is no different from any other games.
Originally posted by Moirae Ummm... I really think some people aren't in touch with reality. SWTOR has raiding (called Operations), various different Flashpoints, and PvP at end game. Just like every other game on the market. How are those not end game exactly? SWTOR's end game is no different from any other games.
I don't think the sentimate is that the game has no endgame, but that they haven't added much new content in quite a while. Nightmare modes of the same raids some have been farming for the past 9 months might be too little for some (im perfectly fine with it though). As for flashpoints, RoTHC launched with only 4 HM endgame FPs, and none of them were new. Since then, they have only added 2, so SWTOR has essentially only added 2 new HM flashpoints in the last 2 years. Even PVP, they have only recently added 1 new WZ map, the first since patch 1.2 in March 2012 when they added Novare coast. Yes SWTOR has the same types of endgame as other games, but not as much of it in a lot of areas.
For comparison sake, lets look at new (not mentioning TFB, because its rehased) lvl 55 raids added during RotHC.
SnV - 7 Bosses
DF - 5 bosses
DP - 5 bosses
Thats 17 new bosses total, 3 difficulty modes each.
Now lets compare that to WoW`s Mists of Pandaria new level 90 raids
MSV - 6 bosses
HoF - 6 bosses
Terrace - 4 bosses
ToT - 13 bosses
SoO - 14 bosses
Thats a total of 43 new endgame level 90 raid bosses, 3-4 difficulties each.
For me personally, the endgame in SWTOR is fun and whats there is more than enough (even if I am a little concerned that the last 3 FPs were tactical only), but based on what I spelled out above, I can see where some might have different opinions.
Originally posted by Moirae Ummm... I really think some people aren't in touch with reality. SWTOR has raiding (called Operations), various different Flashpoints, and PvP at end game. Just like every other game on the market. How are those not end game exactly? SWTOR's end game is no different from any other games.
I don't think the sentimate is that the game has no endgame, but that they haven't added much new content in quite a while. Nightmare modes of the same raids some have been farming for the past 9 months might be too little for some (im perfectly fine with it though). As for flashpoints, RoTHC launched with only 4 HM endgame FPs, and none of them were new. Since then, they have only added 2, so SWTOR has essentially only added 2 new HM flashpoints in the last 2 years. Even PVP, they have only recently added 1 new WZ map, the first since patch 1.2 in March 2012 when they added Novare coast. Yes SWTOR has the same types of endgame as other games, but not as much of it in a lot of areas.
For comparison sake, lets look at new (not mentioning TFB, because its rehased) lvl 55 raids added during RotHC.
SnV - 7 Bosses
DF - 5 bosses
DP - 5 bosses
Thats 17 new bosses total, 3 difficulty modes each.
Now lets compare that to WoW`s Mists of Pandaria new level 90 raids
MSV - 6 bosses
HoF - 6 bosses
Terrace - 4 bosses
ToT - 13 bosses
SoO - 14 bosses
Thats a total of 43 new endgame level 90 raid bosses, 3-4 difficulties each.
For me personally, the endgame in SWTOR is fun and whats there is more than enough (even if I am a little concerned that the last 3 FPs were tactical only), but based on what I spelled out above, I can see where some might have different opinions.
To be fair people only run SoO to get top gear not all the others. All the others are to gear up so you can run SoO so if you want to compare don't add in all the raids nobody runs in Wow anymore, and once WOD is released it will be over a year since they released any content dailies, raids or other content.
Edit: I don't think anyone will argue that WoW has the most "new" raids/ops. They have also been around for almost 10 years, have 7X the population of the next closest game so why don't you go look at endgame content to other games...like....
LOTRO
Age of Conan
Rift
Tera
TSW
FFXIV
ect
ect
Now if you compare all those to WoW they all lose also...but if you compare those to SWTOR you may come up with a different answer on some, most or even all ill wait for your comparison should be interesting.
Originally posted by Moirae Ummm... I really think some people aren't in touch with reality. SWTOR has raiding (called Operations), various different Flashpoints, and PvP at end game. Just like every other game on the market. How are those not end game exactly? SWTOR's end game is no different from any other games.
I don't think the sentimate is that the game has no endgame, but that they haven't added much new content in quite a while. Nightmare modes of the same raids some have been farming for the past 9 months might be too little for some (im perfectly fine with it though). As for flashpoints, RoTHC launched with only 4 HM endgame FPs, and none of them were new. Since then, they have only added 2, so SWTOR has essentially only added 2 new HM flashpoints in the last 2 years. Even PVP, they have only recently added 1 new WZ map, the first since patch 1.2 in March 2012 when they added Novare coast. Yes SWTOR has the same types of endgame as other games, but not as much of it in a lot of areas.
For comparison sake, lets look at new (not mentioning TFB, because its rehased) lvl 55 raids added during RotHC.
SnV - 7 Bosses
DF - 5 bosses
DP - 5 bosses
Thats 17 new bosses total, 3 difficulty modes each.
Now lets compare that to WoW`s Mists of Pandaria new level 90 raids
MSV - 6 bosses
HoF - 6 bosses
Terrace - 4 bosses
ToT - 13 bosses
SoO - 14 bosses
Thats a total of 43 new endgame level 90 raid bosses, 3-4 difficulties each.
For me personally, the endgame in SWTOR is fun and whats there is more than enough (even if I am a little concerned that the last 3 FPs were tactical only), but based on what I spelled out above, I can see where some might have different opinions.
To be fair people only run SoO to get top gear not all the others. All the others are to gear up so you can run SoO so if you want to compare don't add in all the raids nobody runs in Wow anymore, and once WOD is released it will be over a year since they released any content dailies, raids or other content.
Edit: I don't think anyone will argue that WoW has the most "new" raids/ops. They have also been around for almost 10 years, have 7X the population of the next closest game so why don't you go look at endgame content to other games...like....
LOTRO
Age of Conan
Rift
Tera
TSW
FFXIV
ect
ect
Now if you compare all those to WoW they all lose also...but if you compare those to SWTOR you may come up with a different answer on some, most or even all ill wait for your comparison should be interesting.
If you want to dismiss the "gearing up" raids in WoW, then lets also dismiss the "gearing up" ones in SWTOR as well....so we have Dread palace...Dread Palace NiM is the newest tier in SWTOR (like SoO), and its 5 bosses...thats it...... Lets compare that to WoW's current tier, SoO, 14 bosses.....5 bosses compared to 14. That has nothing to do with how "old" WoW is, SoO was released at the exact same time as DF/DP normal.
Lets also forget the fact that the current raid tiers in most of the games you mentioned are also more than 5 bosses, as you even pointed out, most people play wow, therefore ones expectations on what a Themepark MMO's endgame should consist of is usually compared to that. Wildstar for example, just launched, and has far more current raid content than SWTOR.You seem to be taking this personal and are of the assumption that I feel SWTOR's endgame is lacking, even though I have already stated otherwise. I am just pointing out that its not unfathomable to have a different opinion.
EDIT: By the way, ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR, which goes back to my initial response to the guy I quoted who thought people were saying SWTOR had no endgame. I dont think people feel SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some feel it has not really had enough of it, something I dont personally agree with, but I can see where they are coming from.
Originally posted by Moirae Ummm... I really think some people aren't in touch with reality. SWTOR has raiding (called Operations), various different Flashpoints, and PvP at end game. Just like every other game on the market. How are those not end game exactly? SWTOR's end game is no different from any other games.
I don't think the sentimate is that the game has no endgame, but that they haven't added much new content in quite a while. Nightmare modes of the same raids some have been farming for the past 9 months might be too little for some (im perfectly fine with it though). As for flashpoints, RoTHC launched with only 4 HM endgame FPs, and none of them were new. Since then, they have only added 2, so SWTOR has essentially only added 2 new HM flashpoints in the last 2 years. Even PVP, they have only recently added 1 new WZ map, the first since patch 1.2 in March 2012 when they added Novare coast. Yes SWTOR has the same types of endgame as other games, but not as much of it in a lot of areas.
For comparison sake, lets look at new (not mentioning TFB, because its rehased) lvl 55 raids added during RotHC.
SnV - 7 Bosses
DF - 5 bosses
DP - 5 bosses
Thats 17 new bosses total, 3 difficulty modes each.
Now lets compare that to WoW`s Mists of Pandaria new level 90 raids
MSV - 6 bosses
HoF - 6 bosses
Terrace - 4 bosses
ToT - 13 bosses
SoO - 14 bosses
Thats a total of 43 new endgame level 90 raid bosses, 3-4 difficulties each.
For me personally, the endgame in SWTOR is fun and whats there is more than enough (even if I am a little concerned that the last 3 FPs were tactical only), but based on what I spelled out above, I can see where some might have different opinions.
To be fair people only run SoO to get top gear not all the others. All the others are to gear up so you can run SoO so if you want to compare don't add in all the raids nobody runs in Wow anymore, and once WOD is released it will be over a year since they released any content dailies, raids or other content.
Edit: I don't think anyone will argue that WoW has the most "new" raids/ops. They have also been around for almost 10 years, have 7X the population of the next closest game so why don't you go look at endgame content to other games...like....
LOTRO
Age of Conan
Rift
Tera
TSW
FFXIV
ect
ect
Now if you compare all those to WoW they all lose also...but if you compare those to SWTOR you may come up with a different answer on some, most or even all ill wait for your comparison should be interesting.
If you want to dismiss the "gearing up" raids in WoW, then lets also dismiss the "gearing up" ones in SWTOR as well....so we have Dread palace...Dread Palace NiM is the highest tier in SWTOR (like SoO), and its 5 bosses...thats it...... Lets compare that to WoW's current tier, SoO, 14 bosses.....5 bosses compared to 14. That has nothing to do with how "old" WoW is, SoO was released at the exact same time as DF/DP normal.
Lets also forget the fact that the current raid tiers in most of the games you mentioned are also more than 5 bosses, as you even pointed out, most people play wow, therefore ones expectations on what a Themepark MMO's endgame should consist of is usually compared to that. You seem to be taking this personal and are of the assumption that I feel SWTOR's endgame is lacking, even though I have already stated otherwise. I am just pointing out that its not unfathomable to have a different opinion.
Haha personal too funny you are the one who gets defensive I just post to your comments. If you rather just post and not have anyone reply please let me know and I'll stop replying to you as it seems you get upset when i do. As for the "gearing up" that would full under KP, tfb, and flash points so don't try and spin this. Again if you want to dismiss comparing to other mmos (not including wow) Swtor is not lacking in endgame then their is no point in discussing this with you.
Originally posted by Moirae Ummm... I really think some people aren't in touch with reality. SWTOR has raiding (called Operations), various different Flashpoints, and PvP at end game. Just like every other game on the market. How are those not end game exactly? SWTOR's end game is no different from any other games.
I don't think the sentimate is that the game has no endgame, but that they haven't added much new content in quite a while. Nightmare modes of the same raids some have been farming for the past 9 months might be too little for some (im perfectly fine with it though). As for flashpoints, RoTHC launched with only 4 HM endgame FPs, and none of them were new. Since then, they have only added 2, so SWTOR has essentially only added 2 new HM flashpoints in the last 2 years. Even PVP, they have only recently added 1 new WZ map, the first since patch 1.2 in March 2012 when they added Novare coast. Yes SWTOR has the same types of endgame as other games, but not as much of it in a lot of areas.
For comparison sake, lets look at new (not mentioning TFB, because its rehased) lvl 55 raids added during RotHC.
SnV - 7 Bosses
DF - 5 bosses
DP - 5 bosses
Thats 17 new bosses total, 3 difficulty modes each.
Now lets compare that to WoW`s Mists of Pandaria new level 90 raids
MSV - 6 bosses
HoF - 6 bosses
Terrace - 4 bosses
ToT - 13 bosses
SoO - 14 bosses
Thats a total of 43 new endgame level 90 raid bosses, 3-4 difficulties each.
For me personally, the endgame in SWTOR is fun and whats there is more than enough (even if I am a little concerned that the last 3 FPs were tactical only), but based on what I spelled out above, I can see where some might have different opinions.
To be fair people only run SoO to get top gear not all the others. All the others are to gear up so you can run SoO so if you want to compare don't add in all the raids nobody runs in Wow anymore, and once WOD is released it will be over a year since they released any content dailies, raids or other content.
Edit: I don't think anyone will argue that WoW has the most "new" raids/ops. They have also been around for almost 10 years, have 7X the population of the next closest game so why don't you go look at endgame content to other games...like....
LOTRO
Age of Conan
Rift
Tera
TSW
FFXIV
ect
ect
Now if you compare all those to WoW they all lose also...but if you compare those to SWTOR you may come up with a different answer on some, most or even all ill wait for your comparison should be interesting.
If you want to dismiss the "gearing up" raids in WoW, then lets also dismiss the "gearing up" ones in SWTOR as well....so we have Dread palace...Dread Palace NiM is the highest tier in SWTOR (like SoO), and its 5 bosses...thats it...... Lets compare that to WoW's current tier, SoO, 14 bosses.....5 bosses compared to 14. That has nothing to do with how "old" WoW is, SoO was released at the exact same time as DF/DP normal.
Lets also forget the fact that the current raid tiers in most of the games you mentioned are also more than 5 bosses, as you even pointed out, most people play wow, therefore ones expectations on what a Themepark MMO's endgame should consist of is usually compared to that. You seem to be taking this personal and are of the assumption that I feel SWTOR's endgame is lacking, even though I have already stated otherwise. I am just pointing out that its not unfathomable to have a different opinion.
Haha personal too funny you are the one who gets defensive I just post to your comments. If you rather just post and not have anyone reply please let me know and I'll stop replying to you as it seems you get upset when i do. As for the "gearing up" that would full under KP, tfb, and flash points so don't try and spin this. Again if you want to dismiss comparing to other mmos (not including wow) Swtor is not lacking in endgame then their is no point in discussing this with you.
You cant dismiss all of WoW`s raids except for SoO because they are only ran to `gear up for SoO`, then turn around and claim that I cant dismiss all of SWTOR's raids except for its newest also. You cant have your cake and eat it to. We either dismiss everything except for the newest tier in both games, or neither game. You are also welcome to respond to all of my posts, but at least be logical. Dismissing all of WoW's tiers except for its newest (SoO), then turning around and telling me that I cant do the same for SWTOR (DP NiM), is illogical. (on a side note, KP is tier 1 from launch SWTOR, and level 50, not even max level...I am utterly perplexed why you would even bring it up here).
I also added the following to my last post in case you missed it:
ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR, which goes back to my initial response to the guy I quoted who thought people were saying SWTOR had no endgame. I dont think people feel SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some feel it has not really had enough of it, something I dont personally agree with, but I can see where they are coming from.
Originally posted by Moirae Ummm... I really think some people aren't in touch with reality. SWTOR has raiding (called Operations), various different Flashpoints, and PvP at end game. Just like every other game on the market. How are those not end game exactly? SWTOR's end game is no different from any other games.
I don't think the sentimate is that the game has no endgame, but that they haven't added much new content in quite a while. Nightmare modes of the same raids some have been farming for the past 9 months might be too little for some (im perfectly fine with it though). As for flashpoints, RoTHC launched with only 4 HM endgame FPs, and none of them were new. Since then, they have only added 2, so SWTOR has essentially only added 2 new HM flashpoints in the last 2 years. Even PVP, they have only recently added 1 new WZ map, the first since patch 1.2 in March 2012 when they added Novare coast. Yes SWTOR has the same types of endgame as other games, but not as much of it in a lot of areas.
For comparison sake, lets look at new (not mentioning TFB, because its rehased) lvl 55 raids added during RotHC.
SnV - 7 Bosses
DF - 5 bosses
DP - 5 bosses
Thats 17 new bosses total, 3 difficulty modes each.
Now lets compare that to WoW`s Mists of Pandaria new level 90 raids
MSV - 6 bosses
HoF - 6 bosses
Terrace - 4 bosses
ToT - 13 bosses
SoO - 14 bosses
Thats a total of 43 new endgame level 90 raid bosses, 3-4 difficulties each.
For me personally, the endgame in SWTOR is fun and whats there is more than enough (even if I am a little concerned that the last 3 FPs were tactical only), but based on what I spelled out above, I can see where some might have different opinions.
To be fair people only run SoO to get top gear not all the others. All the others are to gear up so you can run SoO so if you want to compare don't add in all the raids nobody runs in Wow anymore, and once WOD is released it will be over a year since they released any content dailies, raids or other content.
Edit: I don't think anyone will argue that WoW has the most "new" raids/ops. They have also been around for almost 10 years, have 7X the population of the next closest game so why don't you go look at endgame content to other games...like....
LOTRO
Age of Conan
Rift
Tera
TSW
FFXIV
ect
ect
Now if you compare all those to WoW they all lose also...but if you compare those to SWTOR you may come up with a different answer on some, most or even all ill wait for your comparison should be interesting.
If you want to dismiss the "gearing up" raids in WoW, then lets also dismiss the "gearing up" ones in SWTOR as well....so we have Dread palace...Dread Palace NiM is the highest tier in SWTOR (like SoO), and its 5 bosses...thats it...... Lets compare that to WoW's current tier, SoO, 14 bosses.....5 bosses compared to 14. That has nothing to do with how "old" WoW is, SoO was released at the exact same time as DF/DP normal.
Lets also forget the fact that the current raid tiers in most of the games you mentioned are also more than 5 bosses, as you even pointed out, most people play wow, therefore ones expectations on what a Themepark MMO's endgame should consist of is usually compared to that. You seem to be taking this personal and are of the assumption that I feel SWTOR's endgame is lacking, even though I have already stated otherwise. I am just pointing out that its not unfathomable to have a different opinion.
Haha personal too funny you are the one who gets defensive I just post to your comments. If you rather just post and not have anyone reply please let me know and I'll stop replying to you as it seems you get upset when i do. As for the "gearing up" that would full under KP, tfb, and flash points so don't try and spin this. Again if you want to dismiss comparing to other mmos (not including wow) Swtor is not lacking in endgame then their is no point in discussing this with you.
You cant dismiss all of WoW`s raids except for SoO because they are only ran to `gear up for SoO`, then turn around and claim that I cant dismiss all of SWTOR's raids except for its newest also. You cant have your cake and eat it to. We either dismiss everything except for the newest tier in both games, or neither game. You are also welcome to respond to all of my posts, but at least be logical. Dismissing all of WoW's tiers except for its newest (SoO), then turning around and telling me that I cant do the same for SWTOR (DP NiM), is illogical. (on a side note, KP is tier 1 from launch SWTOR, and level 50, not even max level...I am utterly perplexed why you would even bring it up here).
I also added the following to my last post in case you missed it:
ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR, which goes back to my initial response to the guy I quoted who thought people were saying SWTOR had no endgame. I dont think people feel SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some feel it has not really had enough of it, something I dont personally agree with, but I can see where they are coming from.
No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor...
lotro no longer releases endgame raids or dungeons, so in their last expansion they added ZERO. Now they do have big battles but head on over to their site the players do not count those is raids or dungeons.
Tera has five level 60 5man dungeons.
Age of Conan has one tier 4 raid
Rift three tier 2 raids *not updated so could be off
i can keep going if you want...but I hope you get the point.
Originally posted by Moirae Ummm... I really think some people aren't in touch with reality. SWTOR has raiding (called Operations), various different Flashpoints, and PvP at end game. Just like every other game on the market. How are those not end game exactly? SWTOR's end game is no different from any other games.
I don't think the sentimate is that the game has no endgame, but that they haven't added much new content in quite a while. Nightmare modes of the same raids some have been farming for the past 9 months might be too little for some (im perfectly fine with it though). As for flashpoints, RoTHC launched with only 4 HM endgame FPs, and none of them were new. Since then, they have only added 2, so SWTOR has essentially only added 2 new HM flashpoints in the last 2 years. Even PVP, they have only recently added 1 new WZ map, the first since patch 1.2 in March 2012 when they added Novare coast. Yes SWTOR has the same types of endgame as other games, but not as much of it in a lot of areas.
For comparison sake, lets look at new (not mentioning TFB, because its rehased) lvl 55 raids added during RotHC.
SnV - 7 Bosses
DF - 5 bosses
DP - 5 bosses
Thats 17 new bosses total, 3 difficulty modes each.
Now lets compare that to WoW`s Mists of Pandaria new level 90 raids
MSV - 6 bosses
HoF - 6 bosses
Terrace - 4 bosses
ToT - 13 bosses
SoO - 14 bosses
Thats a total of 43 new endgame level 90 raid bosses, 3-4 difficulties each.
For me personally, the endgame in SWTOR is fun and whats there is more than enough (even if I am a little concerned that the last 3 FPs were tactical only), but based on what I spelled out above, I can see where some might have different opinions.
To be fair people only run SoO to get top gear not all the others. All the others are to gear up so you can run SoO so if you want to compare don't add in all the raids nobody runs in Wow anymore, and once WOD is released it will be over a year since they released any content dailies, raids or other content.
Edit: I don't think anyone will argue that WoW has the most "new" raids/ops. They have also been around for almost 10 years, have 7X the population of the next closest game so why don't you go look at endgame content to other games...like....
LOTRO
Age of Conan
Rift
Tera
TSW
FFXIV
ect
ect
Now if you compare all those to WoW they all lose also...but if you compare those to SWTOR you may come up with a different answer on some, most or even all ill wait for your comparison should be interesting.
If you want to dismiss the "gearing up" raids in WoW, then lets also dismiss the "gearing up" ones in SWTOR as well....so we have Dread palace...Dread Palace NiM is the highest tier in SWTOR (like SoO), and its 5 bosses...thats it...... Lets compare that to WoW's current tier, SoO, 14 bosses.....5 bosses compared to 14. That has nothing to do with how "old" WoW is, SoO was released at the exact same time as DF/DP normal.
Lets also forget the fact that the current raid tiers in most of the games you mentioned are also more than 5 bosses, as you even pointed out, most people play wow, therefore ones expectations on what a Themepark MMO's endgame should consist of is usually compared to that. You seem to be taking this personal and are of the assumption that I feel SWTOR's endgame is lacking, even though I have already stated otherwise. I am just pointing out that its not unfathomable to have a different opinion.
Haha personal too funny you are the one who gets defensive I just post to your comments. If you rather just post and not have anyone reply please let me know and I'll stop replying to you as it seems you get upset when i do. As for the "gearing up" that would full under KP, tfb, and flash points so don't try and spin this. Again if you want to dismiss comparing to other mmos (not including wow) Swtor is not lacking in endgame then their is no point in discussing this with you.
You cant dismiss all of WoW`s raids except for SoO because they are only ran to `gear up for SoO`, then turn around and claim that I cant dismiss all of SWTOR's raids except for its newest also. You cant have your cake and eat it to. We either dismiss everything except for the newest tier in both games, or neither game. You are also welcome to respond to all of my posts, but at least be logical. Dismissing all of WoW's tiers except for its newest (SoO), then turning around and telling me that I cant do the same for SWTOR (DP NiM), is illogical. (on a side note, KP is tier 1 from launch SWTOR, and level 50, not even max level...I am utterly perplexed why you would even bring it up here).
I also added the following to my last post in case you missed it:
ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR, which goes back to my initial response to the guy I quoted who thought people were saying SWTOR had no endgame. I dont think people feel SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some feel it has not really had enough of it, something I dont personally agree with, but I can see where they are coming from.
No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor...
lotro no longer releases endgame raids or dungeons, so in their last expansion they added ZERO. Now they do have big battles but head on over to their site the players do not count those is raids or dungeons.
Tera has five level 60 5man dungeons.
Age of Conan has one tier 4 raid
Rift three tier 2 raids *not updated so could be off
i can keep going if you want...but I hope you get the point.
I said: "ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR"
You reply with: "No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor"
This is what im talking about, almost every single one of your replies to me in this thread is to debate something I never said to begin with. I really have no explanation why you would think I said all of those games had more endgame. Go back and read every exchange we have had so far in this thread, every reply you think I said something that i never did. When we were talking about the tactical flashpoints, you thought I said they should only add HMs and not tactical, yet in every one of my posts, I said they should add both. You then tried to dismiss me as having a "add more of what i want, and less of what other want" attitude, even though I never said anything even remotly close to that. That's why I think you are taking it personally, I really have no other explanation.
Originally posted by Moirae Ummm... I really think some people aren't in touch with reality. SWTOR has raiding (called Operations), various different Flashpoints, and PvP at end game. Just like every other game on the market. How are those not end game exactly? SWTOR's end game is no different from any
No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor...
lotro no longer releases endgame raids or dungeons, so in their last expansion they added ZERO. Now they do have big battles but head on over to their site the players do not count those is raids or dungeons.
Tera has five level 60 5man dungeons.
Age of Conan has one tier 4 raid
Rift three tier 2 raids *not updated so could be off
i can keep going if you want...but I hope you get the point.
I said: "ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR"
You reply with: "No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor"
This is what im talking about, almost every single one of your replies to me in this thread is to debate something I never said to begin with. I really have no explanation why you would think I said all of those games had more endgame. Go back and read every exchange we have had so far in this thread, every reply you think I said something that i never did. When we were talking about the tactical flashpoints, you thought I said they should only add HMs and not tactical, yet in every one of my posts, I said they should add both. You then tried to dismiss me as having a "add more of what i want, and less of what other want" attitude, even though I never said anything even remotly close to that. That's why I think you are taking it personally, I really have no other explanation.
However you want to spin it endgame raids dungeons, max level dungeons the TRUTH is no ALL the games I mentioned do NOT have FAR more max level/endgame or however you want to phrase it. Not sure the point of making statements that are clearly not even close to be accurate and probably best to just ignore posters like you that do that.
Originally posted by Moirae Ummm... I really think some people aren't in touch with reality. SWTOR has raiding (called Operations), various different Flashpoints, and PvP at end game. Just like every other game on the market. How are those not end game exactly? SWTOR's end game is no different from any other games.
I don't think the sentimate is that the game has no endgame, but that they haven't added much new content in quite a while. Nightmare modes of the same raids some have been farming for the past 9 months might be too little for some (im perfectly fine with it though). As for flashpoints, RoTHC launched with only 4 HM endgame FPs, and none of them were new. Since then, they have only added 2, so SWTOR has essentially only added 2 new HM flashpoints in the last 2 years. Even PVP, they have only recently added 1 new WZ map, the first since patch 1.2 in March 2012 when they added Novare coast. Yes SWTOR has the same types of endgame as other games, but not as much of it in a lot of areas.
For comparison sake, lets look at new (not mentioning TFB, because its rehased) lvl 55 raids added during RotHC.
SnV - 7 Bosses
DF - 5 bosses
DP - 5 bosses
Thats 17 new bosses total, 3 difficulty modes each.
Now lets compare that to WoW`s Mists of Pandaria new level 90 raids
MSV - 6 bosses
HoF - 6 bosses
Terrace - 4 bosses
ToT - 13 bosses
SoO - 14 bosses
Thats a total of 43 new endgame level 90 raid bosses, 3-4 difficulties each.
For me personally, the endgame in SWTOR is fun and whats there is more than enough (even if I am a little concerned that the last 3 FPs were tactical only), but based on what I spelled out above, I can see where some might have different opinions.
To be fair people only run SoO to get top gear not all the others. All the others are to gear up so you can run SoO so if you want to compare don't add in all the raids nobody runs in Wow anymore, and once WOD is released it will be over a year since they released any content dailies, raids or other content.
Edit: I don't think anyone will argue that WoW has the most "new" raids/ops. They have also been around for almost 10 years, have 7X the population of the next closest game so why don't you go look at endgame content to other games...like....
LOTRO
Age of Conan
Rift
Tera
TSW
FFXIV
ect
ect
Now if you compare all those to WoW they all lose also...but if you compare those to SWTOR you may come up with a different answer on some, most or even all ill wait for your comparison should be interesting.
If you want to dismiss the "gearing up" raids in WoW, then lets also dismiss the "gearing up" ones in SWTOR as well....so we have Dread palace...Dread Palace NiM is the highest tier in SWTOR (like SoO), and its 5 bosses...thats it...... Lets compare that to WoW's current tier, SoO, 14 bosses.....5 bosses compared to 14. That has nothing to do with how "old" WoW is, SoO was released at the exact same time as DF/DP normal.
Lets also forget the fact that the current raid tiers in most of the games you mentioned are also more than 5 bosses, as you even pointed out, most people play wow, therefore ones expectations on what a Themepark MMO's endgame should consist of is usually compared to that. You seem to be taking this personal and are of the assumption that I feel SWTOR's endgame is lacking, even though I have already stated otherwise. I am just pointing out that its not unfathomable to have a different opinion.
Haha personal too funny you are the one who gets defensive I just post to your comments. If you rather just post and not have anyone reply please let me know and I'll stop replying to you as it seems you get upset when i do. As for the "gearing up" that would full under KP, tfb, and flash points so don't try and spin this. Again if you want to dismiss comparing to other mmos (not including wow) Swtor is not lacking in endgame then their is no point in discussing this with you.
You cant dismiss all of WoW`s raids except for SoO because they are only ran to `gear up for SoO`, then turn around and claim that I cant dismiss all of SWTOR's raids except for its newest also. You cant have your cake and eat it to. We either dismiss everything except for the newest tier in both games, or neither game. You are also welcome to respond to all of my posts, but at least be logical. Dismissing all of WoW's tiers except for its newest (SoO), then turning around and telling me that I cant do the same for SWTOR (DP NiM), is illogical. (on a side note, KP is tier 1 from launch SWTOR, and level 50, not even max level...I am utterly perplexed why you would even bring it up here).
I also added the following to my last post in case you missed it:
ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR, which goes back to my initial response to the guy I quoted who thought people were saying SWTOR had no endgame. I dont think people feel SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some feel it has not really had enough of it, something I dont personally agree with, but I can see where they are coming from.
No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor...
lotro no longer releases endgame raids or dungeons, so in their last expansion they added ZERO. Now they do have big battles but head on over to their site the players do not count those is raids or dungeons.
Tera has five level 60 5man dungeons.
Age of Conan has one tier 4 raid
Rift three tier 2 raids *not updated so could be off
i can keep going if you want...but I hope you get the point.
I said: "ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR"
You reply with: "No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor"
This is what im talking about, almost every single one of your replies to me in this thread is to debate something I never said to begin with. I really have no explanation why you would think I said all of those games had more endgame. Go back and read every exchange we have had so far in this thread, every reply you think I said something that i never did. When we were talking about the tactical flashpoints, you thought I said they should only add HMs and not tactical, yet in every one of my posts, I said they should add both. You then tried to dismiss me as having a "add more of what i want, and less of what other want" attitude, even though I never said anything even remotly close to that. That's why I think you are taking it personally, I really have no other explanation.
Originally posted by Moirae Ummm... I really think some people aren't in touch with reality. SWTOR has raiding (called Operations), various different Flashpoints, and PvP at end game. Just like every other game on the market. How are those not end game exactly? SWTOR's end game is no different from any
No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor...
lotro no longer releases endgame raids or dungeons, so in their last expansion they added ZERO. Now they do have big battles but head on over to their site the players do not count those is raids or dungeons.
Tera has five level 60 5man dungeons.
Age of Conan has one tier 4 raid
Rift three tier 2 raids *not updated so could be off
i can keep going if you want...but I hope you get the point.
I said: "ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR"
You reply with: "No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor"
This is what im talking about, almost every single one of your replies to me in this thread is to debate something I never said to begin with. I really have no explanation why you would think I said all of those games had more endgame. Go back and read every exchange we have had so far in this thread, every reply you think I said something that i never did. When we were talking about the tactical flashpoints, you thought I said they should only add HMs and not tactical, yet in every one of my posts, I said they should add both. You then tried to dismiss me as having a "add more of what i want, and less of what other want" attitude, even though I never said anything even remotly close to that. That's why I think you are taking it personally, I really have no other explanation.
However you want to spin it endgame raids dungeons, max level dungeons the TRUTH is no ALL the games I mentioned do NOT have FAR more max level/endgame or however you want to phrase it. Not sure the point of making statements that are clearly not even close to be accurate and probably best to just ignore posters that do that.
Your wiki link shows 5 queueable dungeons, but the game has more than 5 level 60 duneons as their official site shows (I linked it earlier, i wont link it again). just because a dungeon isn`t queueable, doesn`t mean it doesnt exist. We cant just go and dismiss all MMOs without a dungeon finder.
Second, I said dungeons in the post you quoted, YOU said endgame (raids, PVP etc).....its not ``however i want to call it``, I would never in a million years claim that Tera or LorTO had more endgame than SWTOR. You got caught either not reading my post, or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault. Nothing I said wasnt true.
So, going back to my initial post before you defensivly derailed it, I dont think the sentiment is that SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some poeple think it doesnt have enough. I dont agree with that, I think SWTOR`s endgame is fine, but like i said, I can see where they are coming from.
Originally posted by Moirae Ummm... I really think some people aren't in touch with reality. SWTOR has raiding (called Operations), various different Flashpoints, and PvP at end game. Just like every other game on the market. How are those not end game exactly? SWTOR's end game is no different from any
No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor...
lotro no longer releases endgame raids or dungeons, so in their last expansion they added ZERO. Now they do have big battles but head on over to their site the players do not count those is raids or dungeons.
Tera has five level 60 5man dungeons.
Age of Conan has one tier 4 raid
Rift three tier 2 raids *not updated so could be off
i can keep going if you want...but I hope you get the point.
I said: "ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR"
You reply with: "No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor"
This is what im talking about, almost every single one of your replies to me in this thread is to debate something I never said to begin with. I really have no explanation why you would think I said all of those games had more endgame. Go back and read every exchange we have had so far in this thread, every reply you think I said something that i never did. When we were talking about the tactical flashpoints, you thought I said they should only add HMs and not tactical, yet in every one of my posts, I said they should add both. You then tried to dismiss me as having a "add more of what i want, and less of what other want" attitude, even though I never said anything even remotly close to that. That's why I think you are taking it personally, I really have no other explanation.
However you want to spin it endgame raids dungeons, max level dungeons the TRUTH is no ALL the games I mentioned do NOT have FAR more max level/endgame or however you want to phrase it. Not sure the point of making statements that are clearly not even close to be accurate and probably best to just ignore posters that do that.
Your wiki link shows 5 queueable dungeons, but the game has more than 5 level 60 duneons as their official site shows (I linked it earlier, i wont link it again). just because a dungeon isn`t queueable, doesn`t mean it doesnt exist. We cant just go and dismiss all MMOs without a dungeon finder.
Second, I said dungeons, YOU said endgame.....its not ``however i want to call it``, you got caught either not reading my post, or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault. Nothing I said wasnt true.
So, going back to my initial post, I dont think the sentiment is that SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some poeple think it doesnt have enough. I dont agree with that, I think SWTOR`s endgame is fine, but like i said, I can see where they are coming from.
See there is your defensiveness again. I didn't say anything about your link or gf, I just posted where I got my info from.
Yeah I tried to explain to you but maybe you are getting caught not reading my post or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault.
Here again you were wrong by stating "ALL THE GAMES I MENTIONED HAVE FAR MORE MAX LEVEL DUNGEONS THEN SWTOR". That my friend is not true and you said it so yes you are wrong. so even your statement about "nothing I said wasn't true" is not true.
I said do a comparison of those games and more "some, most or all". So the answer definitely is not "all" falls somewhere between "some" and "most".
Rift three tier 2 raids *not updated so could be off
i can keep going if you want...but I hope you get the point.
I said: "ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR"
You reply with: "No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor"
This is what im talking about, almost every single one of your replies to me in this thread is to debate something I never said to begin with. I really have no explanation why you would think I said all of those games had more endgame. Go back and read every exchange we have had so far in this thread, every reply you think I said something that i never did. When we were talking about the tactical flashpoints, you thought I said they should only add HMs and not tactical, yet in every one of my posts, I said they should add both. You then tried to dismiss me as having a "add more of what i want, and less of what other want" attitude, even though I never said anything even remotly close to that. That's why I think you are taking it personally, I really have no other explanation.
However you want to spin it endgame raids dungeons, max level dungeons the TRUTH is no ALL the games I mentioned do NOT have FAR more max level/endgame or however you want to phrase it. Not sure the point of making statements that are clearly not even close to be accurate and probably best to just ignore posters that do that.
Your wiki link shows 5 queueable dungeons, but the game has more than 5 level 60 duneons as their official site shows (I linked it earlier, i wont link it again). just because a dungeon isn`t queueable, doesn`t mean it doesnt exist. We cant just go and dismiss all MMOs without a dungeon finder.
Second, I said dungeons, YOU said endgame.....its not ``however i want to call it``, you got caught either not reading my post, or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault. Nothing I said wasnt true.
So, going back to my initial post, I dont think the sentiment is that SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some poeple think it doesnt have enough. I dont agree with that, I think SWTOR`s endgame is fine, but like i said, I can see where they are coming from.
See there is your defensiveness again. I didn't say anything about your link or gf, I just posted where I got my info from.
Yeah I tried to explain to you but maybe you are getting caught not reading my post or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault.
Here again you were wrong by stating "ALL THE GAMES I MENTIONED HAVE FAR MORE MAX LEVEL DUNGEONS THEN SWTOR". That my friend is not true and you said it so yes you are wrong. so even your statement about "nothing I said wasn't true" is not true.
I said do a comparison of those games and more "some, most or all". So the answer definitely is not "all" falls somewhere between "some" and "most".
What games you mentioned does SWTOR have more max level dungeons than? You can be as sarcastic and dismissive and "well whatever you want to call them" as you want, it doesnt make anything I have said thus far any less accurate.
I just took some time and made a comparison table with the games u mentioned (AoC, Rift, Tera, lotRO, TSW, FF14), I can tell you, SWTOR doesnt have more max level dungeons than any of those games. AoC, for instance, has over 20 level 80 6 man dungeons. I can paste my table if you would like? I just dont like doing research if its just gonna be dismissed.
Originally posted by DamonVile Do you win a prize for this argument or something ? why is it so important that a game has 1 or 2 more or less dungeons in it ?
Its not important at all to me, which is why im pretty confused as to why kicksave wont leave it alone and is insistant on arguing against facts.
Back on topic, SWTOR as some of the best endgame on the market compared to most MMOs, but I can see where the colume is coming from.
Rift three tier 2 raids *not updated so could be off
i can keep going if you want...but I hope you get the point.
I said: "ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR"
You reply with: "No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor"
This is what im talking about, almost every single one of your replies to me in this thread is to debate something I never said to begin with. I really have no explanation why you would think I said all of those games had more endgame. Go back and read every exchange we have had so far in this thread, every reply you think I said something that i never did. When we were talking about the tactical flashpoints, you thought I said they should only add HMs and not tactical, yet in every one of my posts, I said they should add both. You then tried to dismiss me as having a "add more of what i want, and less of what other want" attitude, even though I never said anything even remotly close to that. That's why I think you are taking it personally, I really have no other explanation.
However you want to spin it endgame raids dungeons, max level dungeons the TRUTH is no ALL the games I mentioned do NOT have FAR more max level/endgame or however you want to phrase it. Not sure the point of making statements that are clearly not even close to be accurate and probably best to just ignore posters that do that.
Your wiki link shows 5 queueable dungeons, but the game has more than 5 level 60 duneons as their official site shows (I linked it earlier, i wont link it again). just because a dungeon isn`t queueable, doesn`t mean it doesnt exist. We cant just go and dismiss all MMOs without a dungeon finder.
Second, I said dungeons, YOU said endgame.....its not ``however i want to call it``, you got caught either not reading my post, or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault. Nothing I said wasnt true.
So, going back to my initial post, I dont think the sentiment is that SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some poeple think it doesnt have enough. I dont agree with that, I think SWTOR`s endgame is fine, but like i said, I can see where they are coming from.
See there is your defensiveness again. I didn't say anything about your link or gf, I just posted where I got my info from.
Yeah I tried to explain to you but maybe you are getting caught not reading my post or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault.
Here again you were wrong by stating "ALL THE GAMES I MENTIONED HAVE FAR MORE MAX LEVEL DUNGEONS THEN SWTOR". That my friend is not true and you said it so yes you are wrong. so even your statement about "nothing I said wasn't true" is not true.
I said do a comparison of those games and more "some, most or all". So the answer definitely is not "all" falls somewhere between "some" and "most".
What games you mentioned does SWTOR have more max level dungeons than? You can be as sarcastic and dismissive and "well whatever you want to call them" as you want, it doesnt make anything I have said thus far any less accurate.
I just took some time and made a comparison table with the games u mentioned (AoC, Rift, Tera, lotRO, TSW, FF14), I can tell you, SWTOR doesnt have more max level dungeons than any of those games. AoC, for instance, has over 20 level 80 6 man dungeons. I can paste my table if you would like? I just dont like doing research if its just gonna be dismissed.
Yes I would love to see your list. I am very curios to see what you have down for lotro? Because in your original post you discredit tfb because it was "rehashed" so can't wait to see what lotro has for max level content. So please continue with your table...also in mine was ect. Ect ...
Originally posted by DamonVile Do you win a prize for this argument or something ? why is it so important that a game has 1 or 2 more or less dungeons in it ?
Its not important at all to me, which is why im pretty confused as to why kicksave wont leave it alone and is insistant on arguing against facts.
Back on topic, SWTOR as some of the best endgame on the market compared to most MMOs, but I can see where the colume is coming from.
Pretty sure you continue to reply also but keep blaming me...lol
Rift three tier 2 raids *not updated so could be off
i can keep going if you want...but I hope you get the point.
I said: "ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR"
You reply with: "No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor"
This is what im talking about, almost every single one of your replies to me in this thread is to debate something I never said to begin with. I really have no explanation why you would think I said all of those games had more endgame. Go back and read every exchange we have had so far in this thread, every reply you think I said something that i never did. When we were talking about the tactical flashpoints, you thought I said they should only add HMs and not tactical, yet in every one of my posts, I said they should add both. You then tried to dismiss me as having a "add more of what i want, and less of what other want" attitude, even though I never said anything even remotly close to that. That's why I think you are taking it personally, I really have no other explanation.
However you want to spin it endgame raids dungeons, max level dungeons the TRUTH is no ALL the games I mentioned do NOT have FAR more max level/endgame or however you want to phrase it. Not sure the point of making statements that are clearly not even close to be accurate and probably best to just ignore posters that do that.
Your wiki link shows 5 queueable dungeons, but the game has more than 5 level 60 duneons as their official site shows (I linked it earlier, i wont link it again). just because a dungeon isn`t queueable, doesn`t mean it doesnt exist. We cant just go and dismiss all MMOs without a dungeon finder.
Second, I said dungeons, YOU said endgame.....its not ``however i want to call it``, you got caught either not reading my post, or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault. Nothing I said wasnt true.
So, going back to my initial post, I dont think the sentiment is that SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some poeple think it doesnt have enough. I dont agree with that, I think SWTOR`s endgame is fine, but like i said, I can see where they are coming from.
See there is your defensiveness again. I didn't say anything about your link or gf, I just posted where I got my info from.
Yeah I tried to explain to you but maybe you are getting caught not reading my post or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault.
Here again you were wrong by stating "ALL THE GAMES I MENTIONED HAVE FAR MORE MAX LEVEL DUNGEONS THEN SWTOR". That my friend is not true and you said it so yes you are wrong. so even your statement about "nothing I said wasn't true" is not true.
I said do a comparison of those games and more "some, most or all". So the answer definitely is not "all" falls somewhere between "some" and "most".
What games you mentioned does SWTOR have more max level dungeons than? You can be as sarcastic and dismissive and "well whatever you want to call them" as you want, it doesnt make anything I have said thus far any less accurate.
I just took some time and made a comparison table with the games u mentioned (AoC, Rift, Tera, lotRO, TSW, FF14), I can tell you, SWTOR doesnt have more max level dungeons than any of those games. AoC, for instance, has over 20 level 80 6 man dungeons. I can paste my table if you would like? I just dont like doing research if its just gonna be dismissed.
Yes I would love to see your list. I am very curios to see what you have down for lotro? Because in your original post you discredit tfb because it was "rehashed" so can't wait to see what lotro has for max level content. So please continue with your table...also in mine was ect. Ect ...
TFB is a raid, not a dungeon. I also wasn't talking about "max level content" in the statement you keep trying to debate, I was talking about max level dungeons (I believe iv repeated this quite a few times now). If we are now going to dismiss "rehashed dungeons", then SWTOR only has two total max level dungeons, the 2 czerka ones. The other 4 max level FPs are rehased from the vanilla game. See what I mean about being logical? If you want to dismiss rehanhed dungeons in LorTO, then you have to dismiss the rehashed ones in SWTOR too...you cant just do it for one game, and not the other (like you tried to do for raids in WoW).
And here you are again still trying to turn my statement about dungeons into me saying those games have more max level content.
I think we should end our little discussion here. No matter what i say, you are going to keep turing it into something else.
Rift three tier 2 raids *not updated so could be off
i can keep going if you want...but I hope you get the point.
I said: "ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR"
You reply with: "No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor"
This is what im talking about, almost every single one of your replies to me in this thread is to debate something I never said to begin with. I really have no explanation why you would think I said all of those games had more endgame. Go back and read every exchange we have had so far in this thread, every reply you think I said something that i never did. When we were talking about the tactical flashpoints, you thought I said they should only add HMs and not tactical, yet in every one of my posts, I said they should add both. You then tried to dismiss me as having a "add more of what i want, and less of what other want" attitude, even though I never said anything even remotly close to that. That's why I think you are taking it personally, I really have no other explanation.
However you want to spin it endgame raids dungeons, max level dungeons the TRUTH is no ALL the games I mentioned do NOT have FAR more max level/endgame or however you want to phrase it. Not sure the point of making statements that are clearly not even close to be accurate and probably best to just ignore posters that do that.
Your wiki link shows 5 queueable dungeons, but the game has more than 5 level 60 duneons as their official site shows (I linked it earlier, i wont link it again). just because a dungeon isn`t queueable, doesn`t mean it doesnt exist. We cant just go and dismiss all MMOs without a dungeon finder.
Second, I said dungeons, YOU said endgame.....its not ``however i want to call it``, you got caught either not reading my post, or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault. Nothing I said wasnt true.
So, going back to my initial post, I dont think the sentiment is that SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some poeple think it doesnt have enough. I dont agree with that, I think SWTOR`s endgame is fine, but like i said, I can see where they are coming from.
See there is your defensiveness again. I didn't say anything about your link or gf, I just posted where I got my info from.
Yeah I tried to explain to you but maybe you are getting caught not reading my post or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault.
Here again you were wrong by stating "ALL THE GAMES I MENTIONED HAVE FAR MORE MAX LEVEL DUNGEONS THEN SWTOR". That my friend is not true and you said it so yes you are wrong. so even your statement about "nothing I said wasn't true" is not true.
I said do a comparison of those games and more "some, most or all". So the answer definitely is not "all" falls somewhere between "some" and "most".
What games you mentioned does SWTOR have more max level dungeons than? You can be as sarcastic and dismissive and "well whatever you want to call them" as you want, it doesnt make anything I have said thus far any less accurate.
I just took some time and made a comparison table with the games u mentioned (AoC, Rift, Tera, lotRO, TSW, FF14), I can tell you, SWTOR doesnt have more max level dungeons than any of those games. AoC, for instance, has over 20 level 80 6 man dungeons. I can paste my table if you would like? I just dont like doing research if its just gonna be dismissed.
Yes I would love to see your list. I am very curios to see what you have down for lotro? Because in your original post you discredit tfb because it was "rehashed" so can't wait to see what lotro has for max level content. So please continue with your table...also in mine was ect. Ect ...
TFB is a raid, not a dungeon. I also wasn't talking about "max level content" in the statement you keep trying to debate, I was talking about max level dungeons (I believe iv repeated this quite a few times now). If we are now going to dismiss "rehashed dungeons", then SWTOR only has two total max level dungeons, the 2 czerka ones. The other 4 max level FPs are rehased from the vanilla game. See what I mean about being logical? If you want to dismiss rehanhed dungeons in LorTO, then you have to dismiss the rehashed ones in SWTOR too...you cant just do it for one game, and not the other (like you tried to do for raids in WoW).
Here you are again as well, still trying to turn my statement about dungeons into max level content, something SWTOR does indeed have more of compared to most game.
I think we should end our little discussion here. No matter what i say, you are going to keep turing it into something else.
I agree you continue to turn the subject from raids to max level content to max level dungeons to rehashed doesn't count to rehashed does count if it help your point ect ect. But try in the future to keep your topic to one and not jump all over in attempt to push the conversation to your side.
Well im off to run an ops I know there isn't a lot but hopefully we can agree on one to do.
Rift three tier 2 raids *not updated so could be off
i can keep going if you want...but I hope you get the point.
I said: "ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR"
You reply with: "No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor"
This is what im talking about, almost every single one of your replies to me in this thread is to debate something I never said to begin with. I really have no explanation why you would think I said all of those games had more endgame. Go back and read every exchange we have had so far in this thread, every reply you think I said something that i never did. When we were talking about the tactical flashpoints, you thought I said they should only add HMs and not tactical, yet in every one of my posts, I said they should add both. You then tried to dismiss me as having a "add more of what i want, and less of what other want" attitude, even though I never said anything even remotly close to that. That's why I think you are taking it personally, I really have no other explanation.
However you want to spin it endgame raids dungeons, max level dungeons the TRUTH is no ALL the games I mentioned do NOT have FAR more max level/endgame or however you want to phrase it. Not sure the point of making statements that are clearly not even close to be accurate and probably best to just ignore posters that do that.
Your wiki link shows 5 queueable dungeons, but the game has more than 5 level 60 duneons as their official site shows (I linked it earlier, i wont link it again). just because a dungeon isn`t queueable, doesn`t mean it doesnt exist. We cant just go and dismiss all MMOs without a dungeon finder.
Second, I said dungeons, YOU said endgame.....its not ``however i want to call it``, you got caught either not reading my post, or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault. Nothing I said wasnt true.
So, going back to my initial post, I dont think the sentiment is that SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some poeple think it doesnt have enough. I dont agree with that, I think SWTOR`s endgame is fine, but like i said, I can see where they are coming from.
See there is your defensiveness again. I didn't say anything about your link or gf, I just posted where I got my info from.
Yeah I tried to explain to you but maybe you are getting caught not reading my post or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault.
Here again you were wrong by stating "ALL THE GAMES I MENTIONED HAVE FAR MORE MAX LEVEL DUNGEONS THEN SWTOR". That my friend is not true and you said it so yes you are wrong. so even your statement about "nothing I said wasn't true" is not true.
I said do a comparison of those games and more "some, most or all". So the answer definitely is not "all" falls somewhere between "some" and "most".
What games you mentioned does SWTOR have more max level dungeons than? You can be as sarcastic and dismissive and "well whatever you want to call them" as you want, it doesnt make anything I have said thus far any less accurate.
I just took some time and made a comparison table with the games u mentioned (AoC, Rift, Tera, lotRO, TSW, FF14), I can tell you, SWTOR doesnt have more max level dungeons than any of those games. AoC, for instance, has over 20 level 80 6 man dungeons. I can paste my table if you would like? I just dont like doing research if its just gonna be dismissed.
Yes I would love to see your list. I am very curios to see what you have down for lotro? Because in your original post you discredit tfb because it was "rehashed" so can't wait to see what lotro has for max level content. So please continue with your table...also in mine was ect. Ect ...
TFB is a raid, not a dungeon. I also wasn't talking about "max level content" in the statement you keep trying to debate, I was talking about max level dungeons (I believe iv repeated this quite a few times now). If we are now going to dismiss "rehashed dungeons", then SWTOR only has two total max level dungeons, the 2 czerka ones. The other 4 max level FPs are rehased from the vanilla game. See what I mean about being logical? If you want to dismiss rehanhed dungeons in LorTO, then you have to dismiss the rehashed ones in SWTOR too...you cant just do it for one game, and not the other (like you tried to do for raids in WoW).
Here you are again as well, still trying to turn my statement about dungeons into max level content, something SWTOR does indeed have more of compared to most game.
I think we should end our little discussion here. No matter what i say, you are going to keep turing it into something else.
I agree you continue to turn the subject from raids to max level content to max level dungeons to rehashed doesn't count to rehashed does count if it help your point ect ect. But try in the future to keep your topic to one and not jump all over in attempt to push the conversation to your side.
Well im off to run an ops I know there isn't a lot but hopefully we can agree on one to do.
Your argument against WoW's raids, is that all of WoWs raids should be dismissed except its newest gear tier. If we apply that logic to SWTOR, (which i'm all for), we have WoW with 14 raid bosses, SWTOR with 5.
Your argument against the amount of max level dungeons in LotRO is that some of them are rehashed, then if we apply that logic to SWTOR (which again, im all for), than SWTOR only has 2 max level dungeons.
The more restrictions you apply on other games in order to dismiss them from the discussion, the more you are limiting SWTOR, because by your own arguments, it only has 5 raid bosses, and 2 endgame dungeons.
You should stop it with your sarcasm before it gets you into a deeper hole..
Originally posted by TheQuietGamer SWTOR has end game, the same repetitive gear grind most games have. I think this article is 2 years out of date.
Might aswell change the genre title from "mmorpgs" to "raiding", just to be clear, it's kinda misleading to call these games mmorpgs. So many people expect to enter a virtual fantasy world, but their expectations are quickly crushed by a soft singleplayer leveling experience leading to lobby raiding. The devs are laughing their ass off at this point "HAHAA FOOL! Forget about that massive open world, it's meaningless, now start lobby raiding bitch!" yay.
Originally posted by TheQuietGamer SWTOR has end game, the same repetitive gear grind most games have. I think this article is 2 years out of date.
Might aswell change the genre title from "mmorpgs" to "raiding", just to be clear, it's kinda misleading to call these games mmorpgs. So many people expect to enter a virtual fantasy world, but their expectations are quickly crushed by a soft singleplayer leveling experience leading to lobby raiding. The devs are laughing their ass off at this point "HAHAA FOOL! Forget about that massive open world, it's meaningless, now start lobby raiding bitch!" yay.
Most people are getting exactly what they want, as evidenced by WoW, SWTOR, Wildstar, FF14 etc etc being so popular.
Comments
Ya, I never once said add more of what I want, and less of what others want. When they released the Czerka FPs, they each had 2 modes...tactical, and hardmode. I've said twice already that they should have kept doing that, but instead the last 3 FPs they added were tactical only, leaving us trinity folks out to dry. Iv said all along, add content we both want, tactical and hardmode. They have already done it with the Czerka FPs, so it shouldnt be that hard. I raised a very valid point. Dismissing me as someone "wanting more of what I want, and less of what others want", when I literally said the opposite twice now (iv even highlighted them in blue for you), is pretty telling..
Because in a F2P game, Fluffy Bunny Ears are what actually brings in the cash. Only subscription games sell game play.
I don't think the sentimate is that the game has no endgame, but that they haven't added much new content in quite a while. Nightmare modes of the same raids some have been farming for the past 9 months might be too little for some (im perfectly fine with it though). As for flashpoints, RoTHC launched with only 4 HM endgame FPs, and none of them were new. Since then, they have only added 2, so SWTOR has essentially only added 2 new HM flashpoints in the last 2 years. Even PVP, they have only recently added 1 new WZ map, the first since patch 1.2 in March 2012 when they added Novare coast. Yes SWTOR has the same types of endgame as other games, but not as much of it in a lot of areas.
For comparison sake, lets look at new (not mentioning TFB, because its rehased) lvl 55 raids added during RotHC.
SnV - 7 Bosses
DF - 5 bosses
DP - 5 bosses
Thats 17 new bosses total, 3 difficulty modes each.
Now lets compare that to WoW`s Mists of Pandaria new level 90 raids
MSV - 6 bosses
HoF - 6 bosses
Terrace - 4 bosses
ToT - 13 bosses
SoO - 14 bosses
Thats a total of 43 new endgame level 90 raid bosses, 3-4 difficulties each.
For me personally, the endgame in SWTOR is fun and whats there is more than enough (even if I am a little concerned that the last 3 FPs were tactical only), but based on what I spelled out above, I can see where some might have different opinions.
To be fair people only run SoO to get top gear not all the others. All the others are to gear up so you can run SoO so if you want to compare don't add in all the raids nobody runs in Wow anymore, and once WOD is released it will be over a year since they released any content dailies, raids or other content.
Edit: I don't think anyone will argue that WoW has the most "new" raids/ops. They have also been around for almost 10 years, have 7X the population of the next closest game so why don't you go look at endgame content to other games...like....
LOTRO
Age of Conan
Rift
Tera
TSW
FFXIV
ect
ect
Now if you compare all those to WoW they all lose also...but if you compare those to SWTOR you may come up with a different answer on some, most or even all ill wait for your comparison should be interesting.
If you want to dismiss the "gearing up" raids in WoW, then lets also dismiss the "gearing up" ones in SWTOR as well....so we have Dread palace...Dread Palace NiM is the newest tier in SWTOR (like SoO), and its 5 bosses...thats it...... Lets compare that to WoW's current tier, SoO, 14 bosses.....5 bosses compared to 14. That has nothing to do with how "old" WoW is, SoO was released at the exact same time as DF/DP normal.
Lets also forget the fact that the current raid tiers in most of the games you mentioned are also more than 5 bosses, as you even pointed out, most people play wow, therefore ones expectations on what a Themepark MMO's endgame should consist of is usually compared to that. Wildstar for example, just launched, and has far more current raid content than SWTOR.You seem to be taking this personal and are of the assumption that I feel SWTOR's endgame is lacking, even though I have already stated otherwise. I am just pointing out that its not unfathomable to have a different opinion.
EDIT: By the way, ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR, which goes back to my initial response to the guy I quoted who thought people were saying SWTOR had no endgame. I dont think people feel SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some feel it has not really had enough of it, something I dont personally agree with, but I can see where they are coming from.
Haha personal too funny you are the one who gets defensive I just post to your comments. If you rather just post and not have anyone reply please let me know and I'll stop replying to you as it seems you get upset when i do. As for the "gearing up" that would full under KP, tfb, and flash points so don't try and spin this. Again if you want to dismiss comparing to other mmos (not including wow) Swtor is not lacking in endgame then their is no point in discussing this with you.
You cant dismiss all of WoW`s raids except for SoO because they are only ran to `gear up for SoO`, then turn around and claim that I cant dismiss all of SWTOR's raids except for its newest also. You cant have your cake and eat it to. We either dismiss everything except for the newest tier in both games, or neither game. You are also welcome to respond to all of my posts, but at least be logical. Dismissing all of WoW's tiers except for its newest (SoO), then turning around and telling me that I cant do the same for SWTOR (DP NiM), is illogical. (on a side note, KP is tier 1 from launch SWTOR, and level 50, not even max level...I am utterly perplexed why you would even bring it up here).
I also added the following to my last post in case you missed it:
ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR, which goes back to my initial response to the guy I quoted who thought people were saying SWTOR had no endgame. I dont think people feel SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some feel it has not really had enough of it, something I dont personally agree with, but I can see where they are coming from.
No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor...
lotro no longer releases endgame raids or dungeons, so in their last expansion they added ZERO. Now they do have big battles but head on over to their site the players do not count those is raids or dungeons.
Tera has five level 60 5man dungeons.
Age of Conan has one tier 4 raid
Rift three tier 2 raids *not updated so could be off
i can keep going if you want...but I hope you get the point.
I said: "ALL of the games u mentioned have FAR more max level dungeons than SWTOR"
You reply with: "No offense but you need to do some research if you think ALL the games I mention have FAR more end game content then Swtor"
This is what im talking about, almost every single one of your replies to me in this thread is to debate something I never said to begin with. I really have no explanation why you would think I said all of those games had more endgame. Go back and read every exchange we have had so far in this thread, every reply you think I said something that i never did. When we were talking about the tactical flashpoints, you thought I said they should only add HMs and not tactical, yet in every one of my posts, I said they should add both. You then tried to dismiss me as having a "add more of what i want, and less of what other want" attitude, even though I never said anything even remotly close to that. That's why I think you are taking it personally, I really have no other explanation.
Oh, and Tera has more than 5 lvl 60 dungeons: http://tera.enmasse.com/game-guide/dungeons/#dungeonguides
EDIT: I would really like to know why I said max level dungeons, and you in turn thought I said endgame content, please explain yourself.
Here is the list I had...
http://tera.wikia.com/wiki/Dungeon
However you want to spin it endgame raids dungeons, max level dungeons the TRUTH is no ALL the games I mentioned do NOT have FAR more max level/endgame or however you want to phrase it. Not sure the point of making statements that are clearly not even close to be accurate and probably best to just ignore posters like you that do that.
Yep I said some, most or all I am not up to speed on xiv hence why I said "some" .
Your wiki link shows 5 queueable dungeons, but the game has more than 5 level 60 duneons as their official site shows (I linked it earlier, i wont link it again). just because a dungeon isn`t queueable, doesn`t mean it doesnt exist. We cant just go and dismiss all MMOs without a dungeon finder.
Second, I said dungeons in the post you quoted, YOU said endgame (raids, PVP etc).....its not ``however i want to call it``, I would never in a million years claim that Tera or LorTO had more endgame than SWTOR. You got caught either not reading my post, or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault. Nothing I said wasnt true.
So, going back to my initial post before you defensivly derailed it, I dont think the sentiment is that SWTOR has no endgame content, I think some poeple think it doesnt have enough. I dont agree with that, I think SWTOR`s endgame is fine, but like i said, I can see where they are coming from.
See there is your defensiveness again. I didn't say anything about your link or gf, I just posted where I got my info from.
Yeah I tried to explain to you but maybe you are getting caught not reading my post or jumping to conclusions, neither of which is my fault.
Here again you were wrong by stating "ALL THE GAMES I MENTIONED HAVE FAR MORE MAX LEVEL DUNGEONS THEN SWTOR". That my friend is not true and you said it so yes you are wrong. so even your statement about "nothing I said wasn't true" is not true.
I said do a comparison of those games and more "some, most or all". So the answer definitely is not "all" falls somewhere between "some" and "most".
What games you mentioned does SWTOR have more max level dungeons than? You can be as sarcastic and dismissive and "well whatever you want to call them" as you want, it doesnt make anything I have said thus far any less accurate.
I just took some time and made a comparison table with the games u mentioned (AoC, Rift, Tera, lotRO, TSW, FF14), I can tell you, SWTOR doesnt have more max level dungeons than any of those games. AoC, for instance, has over 20 level 80 6 man dungeons. I can paste my table if you would like? I just dont like doing research if its just gonna be dismissed.
Its not important at all to me, which is why im pretty confused as to why kicksave wont leave it alone and is insistant on arguing against facts.
Back on topic, SWTOR as some of the best endgame on the market compared to most MMOs, but I can see where the colume is coming from.
Yes I would love to see your list. I am very curios to see what you have down for lotro? Because in your original post you discredit tfb because it was "rehashed" so can't wait to see what lotro has for max level content. So please continue with your table...also in mine was ect. Ect ...
Pretty sure you continue to reply also but keep blaming me...lol
TFB is a raid, not a dungeon. I also wasn't talking about "max level content" in the statement you keep trying to debate, I was talking about max level dungeons (I believe iv repeated this quite a few times now). If we are now going to dismiss "rehashed dungeons", then SWTOR only has two total max level dungeons, the 2 czerka ones. The other 4 max level FPs are rehased from the vanilla game. See what I mean about being logical? If you want to dismiss rehanhed dungeons in LorTO, then you have to dismiss the rehashed ones in SWTOR too...you cant just do it for one game, and not the other (like you tried to do for raids in WoW).
And here you are again still trying to turn my statement about dungeons into me saying those games have more max level content.
I think we should end our little discussion here. No matter what i say, you are going to keep turing it into something else.
I agree you continue to turn the subject from raids to max level content to max level dungeons to rehashed doesn't count to rehashed does count if it help your point ect ect. But try in the future to keep your topic to one and not jump all over in attempt to push the conversation to your side.
Well im off to run an ops I know there isn't a lot but hopefully we can agree on one to do.
Your argument against WoW's raids, is that all of WoWs raids should be dismissed except its newest gear tier. If we apply that logic to SWTOR, (which i'm all for), we have WoW with 14 raid bosses, SWTOR with 5.
Your argument against the amount of max level dungeons in LotRO is that some of them are rehashed, then if we apply that logic to SWTOR (which again, im all for), than SWTOR only has 2 max level dungeons.
The more restrictions you apply on other games in order to dismiss them from the discussion, the more you are limiting SWTOR, because by your own arguments, it only has 5 raid bosses, and 2 endgame dungeons.
You should stop it with your sarcasm before it gets you into a deeper hole..
Might aswell change the genre title from "mmorpgs" to "raiding", just to be clear, it's kinda misleading to call these games mmorpgs. So many people expect to enter a virtual fantasy world, but their expectations are quickly crushed by a soft singleplayer leveling experience leading to lobby raiding. The devs are laughing their ass off at this point "HAHAA FOOL! Forget about that massive open world, it's meaningless, now start lobby raiding bitch!" yay.
Most people are getting exactly what they want, as evidenced by WoW, SWTOR, Wildstar, FF14 etc etc being so popular.