Also, 200,000 as a low estimate? Try 2 Mil as a low estiamate. This site and the mentality of its community is just harmful to the entire genre. Every game that comes out they trash talk to oblivion, unless its a generic WoW clone.
According to this site, every single MMO except WIldstar is dying. And Oh look! Who just happens to have bought up all of the sites advert space? Wildstar! Seriously? Screw this website.
Originally posted by Distopia How would we know if this game is dying or not?
I would say if a themepark game is going to make drastic changes to the game within 6 month to a year they will do so to prevent the game from dying.
As you might know I enjoy ESO very much and so far not seeing sign's ingame of it dying apart from the common forum complaints. But I also know I am a very differerent type of MMORPG player as I seem to play this genre very different compared to those who often complain (commonly speaking) So while I might be enjoying the game is not to say to many people have left, but as said not seeing that and the leave of people within just 1/2 or 3 months after release is just common. To me it makes it different story 6 months to a years pass release.
Originally posted by Distopia How would we know if this game is dying or not?
I would say if a themepark game is going to make drastic changes to the game within 6 month to a year they will do so to prevent the game from dying.
As you might know I enjoy ESO very much and so far not seeing sign's ingame of it dying apart from the common forum complaints. But I also know I am a very differerent type of MMORPG player as I seem to play this genre very different compared to those who often complain (commonly speaking) So while I might be enjoying the game is not to say to many people have left, but as said not seeing that and the leave of people within just 1/2 or 3 months after release is just common. To me it makes it different story 6 months to a years pass release.
That's one way, I'm just saying as it stands now, the game's design kinda makes it hard to see just how high or low the overall population is.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Oooh he played Ultima Online! His qualifications are without question of great repute!
It must be so! ESO is dead!
Welcome to mmorpg.com, where people with no qualifications write reviews that are bought by one game or another and the circlejerk community hates every mmo that isn't a F2P mound of s***
Originally posted by JTST83 According to this site, every single MMO except WIldstar is dying. And Oh look! Who just happens to have bought up all of the sites advert space? Wildstar! Seriously? Screw this website.
Um... that is said about every game. Wildstar is just brand new so it would likely have more 'positive' to it being filled right this minute. Bit silly to go blaming wildstar for something this forums has had happening for years long before wildstar was even announced.
Speaking for myself I play single player games and MMO games and I honestly do not make a distinction between the two. There are not certain features or aspects that I want out of a single player game that I don't get in a MMO and vice versa. Other than save files for single player, and groups for MMOs.
So I have always struggled with the concept that the two game style and communities are different because I don't think they are.
I am your polar opposite. I only play MMORPG's, for over 11 years now, and normally only one at a time.
I view people who play single player, console games along with MMORPG's, as tourists, and part of the problem as developers have tried to cater to this audience.
I consider myself a purist, looking for a virtual world experience to immerse myself in over the long haul.
To you and most others, these are just "games", I view them as worlds to explore and and live in.
So I do believe there is a significant difference in what these two groups want, you just happen to be part of the much greater sized one.
Now, as for the OP. I played ESO, with the thought that I would get myself to level 50 and then go spend most of my time PVPing with my guild mates.
When I realized the full impact of VR levels, and how they would increase prowess in PVP, then I realized I'd have to grind through all of them, and then the new expansion content, and so would all my guildmates.
As we all level at different speeds, we were spread all over the game world, with only a few couples actually playing together. No way was I going to solo to VR12, nor pug up with others in the expansion to get through the content efficiently, so I left the game to play something else.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I beta tested it, bought it, and played for 2 months. I like many of the features of the game (or what they could be in theory) that others seem to dislike (limited skill selection, veteran ranks, AvAvA). The problem is the developer - ZOS is very clearly either incompetent or apathetic.
Class balance is terrible, some of the worst I've ever seen. Bugs are pervasive and intrusive, and worst of all they are extremely slow to be fixed. Bots are everywhere and overwhelming. The action based combat is frequently unresponsive, leading to many avoidable deaths when your dodge roll fails, your potion doesn't activate, your skills don't fire, or they do fire but have no effect. Grouping mechanics are poorly designed and are barely functional (much of this having to do with their doomed phasing system). The UI is subpar, and the ability to use addons is very limited.
As great as everything in ESO could be, it seems like nothing is actually working right. Worst of all, the vast majority of these issues were known and reported for months during testing and nothing was done. I'm not going to continue supporting a company that seems to have so little interest in actually producing a well designed product.
Speaking for myself I play single player games and MMO games and I honestly do not make a distinction between the two. There are not certain features or aspects that I want out of a single player game that I don't get in a MMO and vice versa. Other than save files for single player, and groups for MMOs.
So I have always struggled with the concept that the two game style and communities are different because I don't think they are.
I am your polar opposite. I only play MMORPG's, for over 11 years now, and normally only one at a time.
I view people who play single player, console games along with MMORPG's, as tourists, and part of the problem as developers have tried to cater to this audience.
I consider myself a purist, looking for a virtual world experience to immerse myself in over the long haul.
To you and most others, these are just "games", I view them as worlds to explore and and live in.
So I do believe there is a significant difference in what these two groups want, you just happen to be part of the much greater sized one.
Now, as for the OP. I played ESO, with the thought that I would get myself to level 50 and then go spend most of my time PVPing with my guild mates.
When I realized the full impact of VR levels, and how they would increase prowess in PVP, then I realized I'd have to grind through all of them, and then the new expansion content, and so would all my guildmates.
As we all level at different speeds, we were spread all over the game world, with only a few couples actually playing together. No way was I going to solo to VR12, nor pug up with others in the expansion to get through the content efficiently, so I left the game to play something else.
I agreed with you till you started blaming people as being a problem.
Only in bizzaro MMo world some one would diss you for having more active social life than willing to live in a virtual world.
God forbid people just want to treat video game as that 'video games'.
What losers right? *rolls eyes*
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
.."ESO is a fantastic game, it has the best graphics that have ever been in a MMORPG..."
..."ESO is a game that hasn’t truly been done before, it’s a game that is designed around its leveling experience...
To the OP ESO is not a "fantastic game." It at best is a moderate game 5-6/10. It does not have the "best graphics ever." It is not a game that "hasn't truly been done before on its leveling experience." (wow has focus on leveling experience among other themeparks)
The problem with ESO remains that it tried to make the elderscrolls playing experience of open ended do what you want into a copy and paste from wow and other themepark games. The two concepts ended up in my mind trying to add more water to a drink of piss__watered down piss is still a pissy drink.
ESO is a game that hasn’t truly been done before, it’s a game that is designed around its leveling experience, and those who rushed through the content to get to level cap and “End Game” essentially skipped
I can't help but feel you should backtrack on this statement. I personally feel that ESO is exactly like every MMO released over the last 7-8 years. Reliance on story, easy leveling, Solo-progression, lack of endgame.
If you create a game that takes less then a month (more like 1-2 weeks) to reach level cap then by Zod's mighty light you better have some endgame. If you want to create this illusion that endgame is just a means to an end and that the leveling progression is the ultimate experience, then you better make it take a while. Recreate the epic journey of a D&D campaign and create an experience that will take months and months and months to finish for even the hardest of hardcore.
As for the grandiose graphical fidelity you espouse, I'd buy the argument if the armor weren;t part of your character's skin, or appeared that. But because the armor all looks painted on it gives this half-baked cheap looking feel from it. As for the rest of the graphics, I find GW2 10x the quality and aesthetically pleasing of the 2. As far as that goes, I also feel that games such as The Secret World and Neverwinter to be more graphically superior to ESO.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
Oooh he played Ultima Online! His qualifications are without question of great repute!
It must be so! ESO is dead!
Welcome to mmorpg.com, where people with no qualifications write reviews that are bought by one game or another and the circlejerk community hates every mmo that isn't a F2P mound of s***
You should maybe read the article.
Instead of raging about negative articles you could actually read it and learn that Ryan is a huge ESO fanboy who's written two articles now that boils down to trying to convince the reader that ESO is the best MMO made to date, and those that don't like it are misinformed.
It's a justification piece.
Or you can just keep reading the titles of the articles and making assumptions.
My modern MMOs had been FF14 1.0 and TSW (go figure!) and had been kind of enjoying FF14 2.0. However, seeing that game go the typical gear grind route, I slowly stopped playing all together. I have kept that sub open only because I don't want to lose my legacy sub price.
In comes ESO... hated it one beta weekend. Kind of liked it the second. Was really digging it the third beta weekend. Pre-ordered Imperial edition and was super excited. Launch comes. Things are going very well. Lots of activity. Lots of positive buzz. But then, early release ends and the official "launch" ensues. Crap figuratively hit the fan.
The game felt like it started to unravel as bugs were everywhere. Zenimax cannot be blamed for botters as they've become very futile in sub games as F2P and B2P has become the norm, but they did completely nerf parts of the experience in an effort to stop them. Legitimate, genuine players lost to bots and exploiters. There were a few instances of data loss and Zenimax was effectively silent on those issues, yet they were more than happy to do the PR circuit on their first couple content updates. There were also significant duping issues. Once again, Zenimax tried to sweep it all under the rug. All that slow, surging positive buzz took a huge nose dive after the first couple weeks.
Sadly, there is A LOT to like in ESO. I still sub. I still play, albeit very casually as I'm afraid to hit VR.
In contrast...
I recently went back to FF14 to catch up on a number of missed patches. The questing is gosh awful. There is a good storyline there.... I think.... but its bogged down with some of the most wonky pacing and story beats out there (curse you TSW and ESO with your entertaining quests!). Combat is run of the mill and little customization goes into your individual jobs/classes.
But, it is exceptionally polished and the end-game now supports a wide variety of goals and activities. Yes, the gear grind is still the main course, but there are all sorts of other things to dabble in.
Yoshida and his team communicate frequently with their player base. They've even iterated on some crummy design choices and the experience shows for it.
Originally posted by remyburke I knew ESO was in trouble the minute I realized I loved the game. Been playing since launch and have no intentions of quitting in the near future. History has proven that me enjoying an MMO is a kiss of death....
So what do you do? Obviously at this point, since you played from release, you musty have a character or 2 at max VR, even if you are very casual. I mean there is literally no end game except for unbalanced PvP.
I have a lvl 45 and a V1 currently. Trying to max out my crafting skills as well. Still plenty to do.
I dont understand 'end game' mentality.
I mean for the game I am currently playing I think it would take several years to max out all the crafting skills. The level progression is basically the game.
I am not against people who do not want to level skills. In fact, I think its a very valid opinion. I just dont understand why someone would make a game designed for end game with any skills at all. If the customer base for such games sees skill progression as work then why have it?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I am waiting for it to go free to play, There was so much wrong that they did not get right at the start. I know 14 folks who left eq2 to go play ESO, all but one have returned to EQ2, its to bad by that time we had virtually disbanded our raiding guild in eq2. I know 1 die hard who is still playing it.
Once it goes free to play I might spend some time in it. I played my 30 day game time that was enough.
I think developers and certain gamers put too much stock in the belief that there are more PvPers in the MMORPG genre than there are PvEers. I've seen it happen with too many MMOs to believe that they all did the PvP wrong, yet games like EQ, FFXI, FFXIV and WoW have shown that the PvE content, if done very well, helps keep the game and sometimes the PvP aspect alive and kicking.
I was going to try it again hoping that the bugs and bots had been resolved. I opened up the game and then got stuck between 4 and 5% of the patch download for an hour. I closed it again.
the sad part is that Zenimax had to jump to the mmo bancwagon with an Elder Scrolls mmo to learn the mmo ropes. They had to use Fallout as a test bed so they learn how to make a good mmo first and then make TES mmo after they learn to do it right.
Comments
Count me as one of the "played beta but didn't buy" crowd.
Yea, graphics are awesome, storyline is compelling, world is incredible....
But the game itself sucks.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I would say if a themepark game is going to make drastic changes to the game within 6 month to a year they will do so to prevent the game from dying.
As you might know I enjoy ESO very much and so far not seeing sign's ingame of it dying apart from the common forum complaints. But I also know I am a very differerent type of MMORPG player as I seem to play this genre very different compared to those who often complain (commonly speaking) So while I might be enjoying the game is not to say to many people have left, but as said not seeing that and the leave of people within just 1/2 or 3 months after release is just common. To me it makes it different story 6 months to a years pass release.
That's one way, I'm just saying as it stands now, the game's design kinda makes it hard to see just how high or low the overall population is.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Who the hell is Ryan Getchell??
Oooh he played Ultima Online! His qualifications are without question of great repute!
It must be so! ESO is dead!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Welcome to mmorpg.com, where people with no qualifications write reviews that are bought by one game or another and the circlejerk community hates every mmo that isn't a F2P mound of s***
Um... that is said about every game. Wildstar is just brand new so it would likely have more 'positive' to it being filled right this minute. Bit silly to go blaming wildstar for something this forums has had happening for years long before wildstar was even announced.
I am your polar opposite. I only play MMORPG's, for over 11 years now, and normally only one at a time.
I view people who play single player, console games along with MMORPG's, as tourists, and part of the problem as developers have tried to cater to this audience.
I consider myself a purist, looking for a virtual world experience to immerse myself in over the long haul.
To you and most others, these are just "games", I view them as worlds to explore and and live in.
So I do believe there is a significant difference in what these two groups want, you just happen to be part of the much greater sized one.
Now, as for the OP. I played ESO, with the thought that I would get myself to level 50 and then go spend most of my time PVPing with my guild mates.
When I realized the full impact of VR levels, and how they would increase prowess in PVP, then I realized I'd have to grind through all of them, and then the new expansion content, and so would all my guildmates.
As we all level at different speeds, we were spread all over the game world, with only a few couples actually playing together. No way was I going to solo to VR12, nor pug up with others in the expansion to get through the content efficiently, so I left the game to play something else.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I beta tested it, bought it, and played for 2 months. I like many of the features of the game (or what they could be in theory) that others seem to dislike (limited skill selection, veteran ranks, AvAvA). The problem is the developer - ZOS is very clearly either incompetent or apathetic.
Class balance is terrible, some of the worst I've ever seen. Bugs are pervasive and intrusive, and worst of all they are extremely slow to be fixed. Bots are everywhere and overwhelming. The action based combat is frequently unresponsive, leading to many avoidable deaths when your dodge roll fails, your potion doesn't activate, your skills don't fire, or they do fire but have no effect. Grouping mechanics are poorly designed and are barely functional (much of this having to do with their doomed phasing system). The UI is subpar, and the ability to use addons is very limited.
As great as everything in ESO could be, it seems like nothing is actually working right. Worst of all, the vast majority of these issues were known and reported for months during testing and nothing was done. I'm not going to continue supporting a company that seems to have so little interest in actually producing a well designed product.
I agreed with you till you started blaming people as being a problem.
Only in bizzaro MMo world some one would diss you for having more active social life than willing to live in a virtual world.
God forbid people just want to treat video game as that 'video games'.
What losers right? *rolls eyes*
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
.."ESO is a fantastic game, it has the best graphics that have ever been in a MMORPG..."
..."ESO is a game that hasn’t truly been done before, it’s a game that is designed around its leveling experience...
To the OP ESO is not a "fantastic game." It at best is a moderate game 5-6/10. It does not have the "best graphics ever." It is not a game that "hasn't truly been done before on its leveling experience." (wow has focus on leveling experience among other themeparks)
The problem with ESO remains that it tried to make the elderscrolls playing experience of open ended do what you want into a copy and paste from wow and other themepark games. The two concepts ended up in my mind trying to add more water to a drink of piss__watered down piss is still a pissy drink.
ESO is a game that hasn’t truly been done before, it’s a game that is designed around its leveling experience, and those who rushed through the content to get to level cap and “End Game” essentially skipped
I can't help but feel you should backtrack on this statement. I personally feel that ESO is exactly like every MMO released over the last 7-8 years. Reliance on story, easy leveling, Solo-progression, lack of endgame.
If you create a game that takes less then a month (more like 1-2 weeks) to reach level cap then by Zod's mighty light you better have some endgame. If you want to create this illusion that endgame is just a means to an end and that the leveling progression is the ultimate experience, then you better make it take a while. Recreate the epic journey of a D&D campaign and create an experience that will take months and months and months to finish for even the hardest of hardcore.
As for the grandiose graphical fidelity you espouse, I'd buy the argument if the armor weren;t part of your character's skin, or appeared that. But because the armor all looks painted on it gives this half-baked cheap looking feel from it. As for the rest of the graphics, I find GW2 10x the quality and aesthetically pleasing of the 2. As far as that goes, I also feel that games such as The Secret World and Neverwinter to be more graphically superior to ESO.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
He also runs an ESO fansite and Podcast over at TesoElite. He is hardly the epitome of fair and balanced coverage of the game.
Sandbox means open world, non-linear gaming PERIOD!
Subscription Gaming, especially MMO gaming is a Cash grab bigger then the most P2W cash shop!
Bring Back Exploration and lengthy progression times. RPG's have always been about the Journey not the destination!!!
You should maybe read the article.
Instead of raging about negative articles you could actually read it and learn that Ryan is a huge ESO fanboy who's written two articles now that boils down to trying to convince the reader that ESO is the best MMO made to date, and those that don't like it are misinformed.
It's a justification piece.
Or you can just keep reading the titles of the articles and making assumptions.
My modern MMOs had been FF14 1.0 and TSW (go figure!) and had been kind of enjoying FF14 2.0. However, seeing that game go the typical gear grind route, I slowly stopped playing all together. I have kept that sub open only because I don't want to lose my legacy sub price.
In comes ESO... hated it one beta weekend. Kind of liked it the second. Was really digging it the third beta weekend. Pre-ordered Imperial edition and was super excited. Launch comes. Things are going very well. Lots of activity. Lots of positive buzz. But then, early release ends and the official "launch" ensues. Crap figuratively hit the fan.
The game felt like it started to unravel as bugs were everywhere. Zenimax cannot be blamed for botters as they've become very futile in sub games as F2P and B2P has become the norm, but they did completely nerf parts of the experience in an effort to stop them. Legitimate, genuine players lost to bots and exploiters. There were a few instances of data loss and Zenimax was effectively silent on those issues, yet they were more than happy to do the PR circuit on their first couple content updates. There were also significant duping issues. Once again, Zenimax tried to sweep it all under the rug. All that slow, surging positive buzz took a huge nose dive after the first couple weeks.
Sadly, there is A LOT to like in ESO. I still sub. I still play, albeit very casually as I'm afraid to hit VR.
In contrast...
I recently went back to FF14 to catch up on a number of missed patches. The questing is gosh awful. There is a good storyline there.... I think.... but its bogged down with some of the most wonky pacing and story beats out there (curse you TSW and ESO with your entertaining quests!). Combat is run of the mill and little customization goes into your individual jobs/classes.
But, it is exceptionally polished and the end-game now supports a wide variety of goals and activities. Yes, the gear grind is still the main course, but there are all sorts of other things to dabble in.
Yoshida and his team communicate frequently with their player base. They've even iterated on some crummy design choices and the experience shows for it.
Best Graphics in an MMORPG?...
the Secret World says "hi!".
TESO dint feeled elder scroll game for me.
bow combat just awfull and classes just feeled..meh.
I dont understand 'end game' mentality.
I mean for the game I am currently playing I think it would take several years to max out all the crafting skills. The level progression is basically the game.
I am not against people who do not want to level skills. In fact, I think its a very valid opinion. I just dont understand why someone would make a game designed for end game with any skills at all. If the customer base for such games sees skill progression as work then why have it?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I am waiting for it to go free to play, There was so much wrong that they did not get right at the start. I know 14 folks who left eq2 to go play ESO, all but one have returned to EQ2, its to bad by that time we had virtually disbanded our raiding guild in eq2. I know 1 die hard who is still playing it.
Once it goes free to play I might spend some time in it. I played my 30 day game time that was enough.
the sad part is that Zenimax had to jump to the mmo bancwagon with an Elder Scrolls mmo to learn the mmo ropes. They had to use Fallout as a test bed so they learn how to make a good mmo first and then make TES mmo after they learn to do it right.
lol