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[Column] Elder Scrolls Online: Is ESO Dying or Just Carving a Niche?

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  • greatskysgreatskys Member UncommonPosts: 451

    There was one thing about ESO that was a game breaker for me . It wasn't the bugs or bots it was how the mega server worked . Very often I was doing a solo quest and there would be loads of other players doing the same quest . I was lucky to get a single shot in on a mob before it died . 

     

    As with a lot of games I've played at launch and given up after the first 30 days I plan on returning again to have a look and see how things are progressing after several months when things die down a bit . 

     

    I think they did release with the wrong business model it should have been buy to play . Zenimax only have themselves to blame for this mess from what I gather there was significant anxiety about releasing with a subscription model . 

     

    Its not a horrible game . Some of its actually quite good . But there are some terrible design choices as well . The thing is there are lots of other games out there that do similar or better under a buy to play or free to play model . 

     

    So unless you are an Elder Scrolls fan what is the motivation to stay here ? 

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465

    ESO failed to live up to its name and the ES franchise, on many levels.

    Like any MMO, it will keep its hardcore fans, and not much else, past 6 months.

  • greatskysgreatskys Member UncommonPosts: 451
    Originally posted by junzo316
    It's dying quicker than SWTOR. If they don't do something extreme soon, it's just going to be a very small niche game the same as Darkfall, where you have a small devoted fan base.

    At least you wont see huge numbers of people on the same solo quests as you if that happens :P 

  • veritas723veritas723 Member CommonPosts: 38

    i think ESO shot itself in the foot.  It had a real botting problem early on.  my two closest mmo real life friends talked me into buying it... when i was firmly against it  (was lingering in Swtor)  but i bought it.  And i enjoy the graphics.  I will never again play a cartoony mmo.  

     

    but like i said,  the game launched with several early game stopping quest blocking bugs.  and then there were bots everywhere.  in public dungeons, farming the "boss" , out in open world chain killing mobs.  there were chains of bots harvesting resources, completing drop off quests for gold farming.  it was bad.

    sad thing is, they fixed that.  the bots are functionally gone.  whether the botters and Chinese gold farmers moved onto wildstar or what i dunno.  but the game devs and GMs made a concerted push and the bots are gone.   my two friends that left.  that was their main complaint.    but it's given them the reason they wanted to drop it.  

    the ongoing issues.  of lag or FPS issues in cryodil are hurting the player base that's hanging on for AvA     although i feel the quest fixes, and other minor content additions are keeping most general PvE-ers happy.  

    they could use some end game.  but it's 3 months.  they were stupid to launch with no alternative to VR grinding of the other factions zones.  there should have been a dedicated VR set of zones, totally separate of the other factions.  this was a huge failing.   it's leading to new content coming out and being widely ignored by the easiest mode of grinding to reach the new VR cap. 

    my hope is eventually there will be places to level naturally as VR.  or a healthy core of dungeons and activities to do as VR  in conjunction with checking out content in other factions areas.  

    i don't think the game is dying.  it's shrunk a bit.  but that's to be expected.  with the flaws the game had ... and some of the decisions they've made.  it was bound to piss people off.   

     

    hell... i think something as stupid as making 1-50 have numbers, and then Veteran have ranks starting 1-10 was a dumb move.  gamer psychology is so childish.  Epeenz were bruised just by not feeling uber and having to work hard just to advance one piddly VR lvl.  If they just went ahead and made the lvl cap 100 or 150  that would have been much better.  grinding the faction content would have offered multiple levels.  incremental increases.  and also... toned down the grinding race.  

    but whatever.   i'm sticking with it.   It's a solid game.  some of the story lines are excellent if you bother to read them.  or engage the world and story simultaneously .  the graphics are beautiful.   you come over a hill and get a sunshine lens flare in the face you'll fall in love with this game.   classes can be played different ways.   tanking and healing can be done different ways.  there aren't a lot of arbitrary gates to playing how you want.  

    balance will come in time.  content hopefully will come in time.    whiners will always whine.  

    i never want to see WoW again

     
  • RabidMouthRabidMouth Member Posts: 196
    Originally posted by OminousDawn

     

    All the PvP'ers complaining about the game is failing because of the "PvE grind.  Yet all of the evidence points toward the game failing because of the PvP.  Case in point, no one is quitting before they get to level 50 and that is all PvE.  Where they are quitting is once they get to level 50 and the game turns to PvP.  It then starts to reason that the people leaving are the PvE'rs who have finished the PvE portion and have no interest in PvP.  Of course, once the PvP'ers get to 50 and see no one participating in PvP are going to find an issue when the PvP field is dead.  But that is always the case, is it not?  How many successful MMORPG PvP games can you name?  Counts down before the PvP'ers mention their one and only crying mantra ... "Eve."

     

    5 .... 4 ..... 3 .... 2 .... 1 ... 

    No. Everybody is quitting when the are forced to grind VR levels. The pointless and long VR grind is the problem. You are at a disadvantage when you PvP at 50 rather than VR 12. VR levels are a poor attempt at an endgame. If anything, PvP saves this game. The PvE content is so poorly put together that you can hardly call it multiplayer.

    You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

  • sfc1971sfc1971 Member UncommonPosts: 421

    The same old lie repeated:

     

    It is NOT normal and healthy for a MMO to loose players after a short period of time. ONLY failed MMO's do this. Eve Online still grows and of course WoW took well over half a decade before it started to decline.

    That virtually every other MMO can't keep it up doesn't mean this is "normal and healthy", it is failure. A successful MMO GROWS by word of mouth advertising. That is how most products become a success. Did GMail start losing subscribers 3 months after it launched? No. Did facebook?

    Do successful television series peek at the pilot and then decline? No.

    The definition of success is growth. ESO ain't growing, it is shrinking. Therefor it is a failure. Finding its niche? Eve Online is a niche game, it is growing.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Robokappit remains true despite your insults that high-sec players exist in an economy driven by null-sec demand. have you see the convoys of jump carriers before a deployment?

    There is more ships getting blown up in high sec than in null sec...but yeah...

    That is what narrow mind is about, seeing a world through a prism of limited perception - seeing PVP and null sec only, while being completely ignorant about major part of the game and missing the bigger picture altogether.

  • NeherunNeherun Member UncommonPosts: 280

    ESO numbers are in decline for a simple reason: IT OFFERS NOTHING NEW TO MMO GENRE.

     

    image

  • firefly2003firefly2003 Member UncommonPosts: 2,527
    Originally posted by funcon
    yeah I can't believe I blew 90 bucks for the imperial edition. it was this freaking site that hyped me up too.

    Never follow hype for any MMO, it will save you a lot of money....another tip dont play any of the games on this sites banners , see saving money again.


  • NetspookNetspook Member UncommonPosts: 1,583
    Originally posted by Wrender

    I only have one question. What is wrong with you WoW kids? ESO is awesome. Did you know that Zenimax gamemasters have gotten together and created their own guild ingame. What game does that.? This is the best MMO experience I have ever had long before WoW ever existed

     

     

    So, if we don't praise it, we're WoW kids?

    And how the hell does the game become better, just because gamemasters have their own guild?

    I've already listed earlier why this game IS NOT awesome, at least not for me, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to repeat my main issues:

    - Locking content behind extra paywalls

    - A friend cannot quest with me, but a bunch of strangers can kill my quests mobs, and give me updates (based on beta, named mobs). Beyond retarded!

    - Way too limited storage, especially the shared bank crap

    - Load screens everywhere

    - Mounts are so expenisve ingame, that you're more than less forced to fork over real money to ever get one

    - The idiotic veteran grind

    - Bots galore

    - Bugs galore

    That's just a few ones, I could easily list more. Each and every one of them are are gamebreaking issues for me, so if they fixed 7 of the 8 issues I listed, I still wouldn't play it.

    OT:

    For me, the game isn't dying. It's already dead and buried.

  • uggeh12uggeh12 Member UncommonPosts: 44
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by SEANMCAD

    Speaking for myself I play single player games and MMO games and I honestly do not make a distinction between the two. There are not certain features or aspects that I want out of a single player game that I don't get in a MMO and vice versa. Other than save files for single player, and groups for MMOs.

    So I have always struggled with the concept that the two game style and communities are different because I don't think they are.

    You know the difference now a days? PvP, there is no pvp in single player games. PvP is the mmo of mmorpg now a days. PvE is becoming more and more single player oriented, while PvP is getting bigger and bigger. ESO's PvP is as big as the genre has seen.  

    Not even close. Cyrodil is maybe a third(probably closer to a quarter) of the size of the Frontiers in DAoC, a game released almost 13 years ago.

  • VolgoreVolgore Member EpicPosts: 3,872
    Originally posted by d_20
    This thread feels like a kind of funeral with each poster coming by and tossing a handful of dirt down onto ESO's coffin and saying a few final words about the deceased.

    Hahaha! Awesome observation..so true :)

    image
  • LungingWolfLungingWolf Member Posts: 73


    Originally posted by sfc1971
    The same old lie repeated:


    It is NOT normal and healthy for a MMO to loose players after a short period of time. ONLY failed MMO's do this. Eve Online still grows and of course WoW took well over half a decade before it started to decline.

    That virtually every other MMO can't keep it up doesn't mean this is "normal and healthy", it is failure. A successful MMO GROWS by word of mouth advertising. That is how most products become a success. Did GMail start losing subscribers 3 months after it launched? No. Did facebook?

    Do successful television series peek at the pilot and then decline? No.

    The definition of success is growth. ESO ain't growing, it is shrinking. Therefor it is a failure. Finding its niche? Eve Online is a niche game, it is growing.



    I agree with this. This phenomenon of initial big spikes of incoming and outgoing players in new MMORPGs always struck me as players checking out the new MMORPGs in question and leaving them unsatisfied. And, of course, in the wake of such spikes, the remaining loyal supporters of the games in question rationalize this away as "normal and healthy".


    I feel that it is the same basic issue with the current "F2P" trend in MMORPGs. The players do not feel that the MMORPGs of today in general are worthy of a subscription fee, so they just refuse to pay the said fee. But, of course, many players have gotten into the "free stuff" madness, so they rationalize this as "the enlightened business philosophy of the future".


    Failure is being spun as the new norm, thanks to the legions of fans out there who take the sophistry of defensive rationalization to new levels.


    I'm sorry to be such a downer, but it has to be said. MMORPGs need to be living, sustainable worlds. And you just can't get that by designing linear, single-player focused, themepark MMORPGs. Sure, many people might love these types of MMORPGs and defend them to the bitter end, but they're bad for the industry.

    Waiting for: Citadel of Sorcery. Along the way, The Elder Scrolls Online (when it is F2P).

    Keeping an eye on: www.play2crush.com (whatever is going on here).

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    I see on the forums they plan on making VR content more solo friendly.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • EQBallzzEQBallzz Member UncommonPosts: 229

    I don't know if I would say the game is dying but I think a lot of people have left (especially vet level players) for various reasons. Vet zones are fairly empty these days but I have seen a good number of people in the 1-50 areas which to me indicates a new wave of levelers coming through or a lot of people have ditched their vet characters for alts and are leveling again (or both). I have been a pretty big supporter of ESO since beta but at the 3 month mark I have to say I'm pretty disappointed with where the game is presently. 

     

    They have been very slow to fix bugs and many of the patches have introduced new bugs or caused previously fixed bugs to return which in my mind puts into question the competence of ZOS. I made it to VR12 on a NB (which was very painful at times) but I think it was an unnecessarily difficult slog (which is why I think many have left). It seems like this is meant to be a purposeful roadblock to prevent people from reaching the "end game" which is somewhat lacking.

     

    The only real "end game" that I can see is Cyrodiil which is quite fun when it's not lagged to hell. I was fortunate enough to choose Wabbajack, however so not sure how good the other campaigns are (and I have heard negative things). Trials seem like an innovative twist to raiding but when your entire 60 man guild vanishes before ever reaching V12 it's not really doable and I'm not really interested in PUG style raids tbh. The issues and vet difficulty are actually making the trials irrelevant because not enough people are making it to V12 to even do them and from what I hear many who do run them only do it to get the achievement then stop because the rewards are lacking.

     

    The final problem I have are the lacking MMO features. For example the guild bank and guild store are very basic and lacking in their features and performance. Items in the guild bank don't auto-stack and you frequently can't even access the bank because of lag or something causing you to exit and try again over and over until it displays your items. I might expect this in a F2P game but this is an unacceptable level of performance from a AAA subscription game. I suspect that many of the quest bugs and phasing issues and bank problems are due to the mega-server infrastructure so that leads me to ask the question if that system was a bad idea or just poorly implemented.

     

    There are a lot of positives in ESO. I like the crafting system and the combat system (tho it needs work). The game world is interesting and beautiful. I think ESO will eventually be a better game but I have serious doubts if that will happen before it's too late (maybe already too late).

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,004
    I know some players said they would just level alts in the 1-50 zones until stuff gets fixed. 

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • BootezBootez Member UncommonPosts: 72
    Developers: If you're going to make a game based on the "leveling experience," at least give us 200 something levels, or some absurd number like Anarchy Online does. That way we can continue to grind away for a long long time. 
  • kartoolkartool Member UncommonPosts: 520

    I played the game through to lvl 50. Once I hit the VR levels, I quit. It's not that VR was too hard, it was more like every mob was just a HP sponge and it just started to feel like a grind. 

    I was faced with three options at this point. Grind the VR stuff to see the storylines, start two other characters to see them for the other two factions or quit. 

    I quit. It's possible I will go back later to do the other two faction areas, but unless they tone down VR content it will be quite some time before I do go back.

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Originally posted by LungingWolf

     


    Originally posted by sfc1971
    The same old lie repeated:

     


    It is NOT normal and healthy for a MMO to loose players after a short period of time. ONLY failed MMO's do this. Eve Online still grows and of course WoW took well over half a decade before it started to decline.

    That virtually every other MMO can't keep it up doesn't mean this is "normal and healthy", it is failure. A successful MMO GROWS by word of mouth advertising. That is how most products become a success. Did GMail start losing subscribers 3 months after it launched? No. Did facebook?

    Do successful television series peek at the pilot and then decline? No.

    The definition of success is growth. ESO ain't growing, it is shrinking. Therefor it is a failure. Finding its niche? Eve Online is a niche game, it is growing.


     


    I agree with this. This phenomenon of initial big spikes of incoming and outgoing players in new MMORPGs always struck me as players checking out the new MMORPGs in question and leaving them unsatisfied. And, of course, in the wake of such spikes, the remaining loyal supporters of the games in question rationalize this away as "normal and healthy".


    I feel that it is the same basic issue with the current "F2P" trend in MMORPGs. The players do not feel that the MMORPGs of today in general are worthy of a subscription fee, so they just refuse to pay the said fee. But, of course, many players have gotten into the "free stuff" madness, so they rationalize this as "the enlightened business philosophy of the future".


    Failure is being spun as the new norm, thanks to the legions of fans out there who take the sophistry of defensive rationalization to new levels.


    I'm sorry to be such a downer, but it has to be said. MMORPGs need to be living, sustainable worlds. And you just can't get that by designing linear, single-player focused, themepark MMORPGs. Sure, many people might love these types of MMORPGs and defend them to the bitter end, but they're bad for the industry.

    It is funny how virtually every MMO since the release of WoW have had their high water mark at launch, and then crashed shortly after. Many of the games before that (EQ, DAOC, SWG, etc) all increased subs after launch.

    But then, the games were "better" back then, or at least had more to them.

    Now with most everything being a linear themepark/gear grind, of course they crash after a couple months, when people finish the run to max level, they quit.

  • thakursethakurse Member UncommonPosts: 25
    with all the millions pre-orders, they are rich already and they just wait till everyone leave so they can pack their things.
  • NetspookNetspook Member UncommonPosts: 1,583
    Originally posted by LungingWolf


    I feel that it is the same basic issue with the current "F2P" trend in MMORPGs. The players do not feel that the MMORPGs of today in general are worthy of a subscription fee, so they just refuse to pay the said fee. But, of course, many players have gotten into the "free stuff" madness, so they rationalize this as "the enlightened business philosophy of the future".

     

    Stop talking about "them", when you mean "we".  You say it yourself in your signature, you're waiting for ESO to become F2P.

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 12,342


    Originally posted by Neherun

    ESO numbers are in decline for a simple reason: IT OFFERS NOTHING NEW TO MMO GENRE.

    If that was true, there would be nothing like mainstream products.


    It is bad to make generalizations based on personal bias. The sky won't fall because you do not find something innovative enough to your taste and you don't like the game.

  • TalemireTalemire Member UncommonPosts: 842
    Well, they did fix one of the two things I always griped about - They reduced the GCD of weapon swap by 1 second, and by seeing it in videos (I'm currently not subbed) I can say that it's a huge improvement in combat smoothness/flow. However, abilities are still activated upon key release instead of key press, and that's still a game-breaker for me. Make abilities more responsive, and I'll come back in a heartbeat.
    Love the sinner, hate the sin.
  • ReklawReklaw Member UncommonPosts: 6,495
    Originally posted by Netspook
    Originally posted by Wrender

    I only have one question. What is wrong with you WoW kids? ESO is awesome. Did you know that Zenimax gamemasters have gotten together and created their own guild ingame. What game does that.? This is the best MMO experience I have ever had long before WoW ever existed

     

     

    So, if we don't praise it, we're WoW kids?

    And how the hell does the game become better, just because gamemasters have their own guild?

    I've already listed earlier why this game IS NOT awesome, at least not for me, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to repeat my main issues:

    - Locking content behind extra paywalls: Lol really? 2 things you can not have and you're upset, talk about the I want it all and want it now crowd.

    - A friend cannot quest with me, but a bunch of strangers can kill my quests mobs, and give me updates (based on beta, named mobs). Beyond retarded! Yes he or she can not sure what is stopping you, oh let me geuss beta and first weeks after release outdated info most likely? second part is true geuss you don't want other players around in a MMORPG?

    - Way too limited storage, especially the shared bank crap. Thought so too in the beginning untill I managed it much better.

    - Load screens everywhere: That depends on your playstyle, if you hardly explore and constant teleport in and out of quests then yeah. Thankfully you don't have to play it that limited to get the constant loadscreens.

    - Mounts are so expenisve ingame, that you're more than less forced to fork over real money to ever get one. Personaly I could care less about mounts, having too much fun exploring and wanting to find resources. So it's clearly a personal issue you have which say's more about you then the game, besides I could have bought plenty of horses already with simple ingame earnings, but decided to spend it on other things among trading with others etc....

    - The idiotic veteran grind: Can't comment I far aways from VR ranks.

    - Bots galore: OUtdated info, sure you might have left, I understand many people do not understand some things take time to fix. Geuss they fixed it very nicely havn't seen bots for a long time (6 to 7 weeks)

    - Bugs galore: I read more about bugs then I encounter them, which does NOT mean there are no bugs, just I don't encounter them.

    That's just a few ones, I could easily list more. Each and every one of them are are gamebreaking issues for me, so if they fixed 7 of the 8 issues I listed, I still wouldn't play it.

    OT:

    For me, the game isn't dying. It's already dead and buried.

    Shame people do not have patience nor understanding that things can take time, it's far from dying, Which is also a shame that we have people into this genre who for some reason feel that if they do not like something everyone should feel the same.

    Listen I understand not every game is for everyone but this constant outdated info people continue sharing just shows what type of community of people into games we have today. Which is more hurting this genre then the genre itself.

  • ForrealzForrealz Member Posts: 28

    This article perfectly explains ESO and what it is atm, it is far from your typical MMO and is different for sure while at same time what it does it bring is something alot of people want and enjoy. What is really funny though you have people who cry for something different yet when some of those get it they cry some more and go right back to the MMOS they uset to play without fully giving that new MMO a chance lol the irony. ESO is more about its PvE and and solo experience which is great for those who play MMOS for its PvE and like to solo along with the occasional group here and there and not for the oldschool hardcore endgame MMOer at least now anyways thats for sure but something that can easily change as ESO matures.

     

    One of the better things that i feel is great about ESO is that it offers an even deeper AAA RPG experience then other MMOS have before it and that is something that attracts the regular gamers who like to play on console or even PC alone but never cared for MMOS. I think this is good for MMOs in general because it brings more people into MMOS and shows that not every MMO is the same and theres an MMO for every type of player out there. Either way no matter I say or anyone else honestly its too early to tell anything really and as far as about the balance they can easily add more of the typical endgame stuff you find in every MMO as ESO matures and in turn offering more of that balance they aimed to reach in first place.

     

    In my opinion its a good MMO for sure that has the potential to become alot more if Zenimax stays committed like they have and even with the Elder scrolls fans alone is enough to make sure ESO does not go F2p because honestly f2p would kill ESO because its just not that type of MMO and in fact needs a steady flow money to provide a steady flow of expansions to do well and i mean real expansions that expand the MMOs main storyline along with other stuff not like some of the BS filler type stuff you see in some f2p MMOs that is obviously just cash grabs. 

    Oh and btw MMOs having bugs and issues early on is nothing new they are working on fixing and have fixed alot and including working to fix the so called phasing issue with groups and adding alot more of the stuff people are asking for so don't expect ESO at launch to be the same ESO by the years end. Also from what i know usally the goal for MMOs are to be better as they mature not worst and as long as ESO stays SUB only they have no excuse for not getting better and only bad support and bad decisions can ruin ESO which is something a billionare publisher like zenimax i do not think is known for or would allow.
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