As they continue to say in this thread, what they wanted all along was Skyrim+ co-op and nothing short of that would have satisfied them. But that's a different game altogether that they never set-out to make. They should have just said that's not the game they were making, taken their lumps and carried on. Their decision to throw them a bone with more PVE content didn't help anything and just confused the game's focus..
I don't think they threw many bones at all.
PvE end game with Adventure Zones was discussed from the very start. Additionally, it seems to take a lot of resources to create so it's not really a "bone" as a major undertaking.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Originally posted by battlesam Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
Stopped reading there...
ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.
Judging by his post, he clearly believes its the other way around.
These PvP'ers will be the death of MMORPG's. They don't understand them, and as such, do nothing but complain about them.
It's so bad, I had to make a sig about it.
I don't think pvp players will be the death of mmo's.
Having said that "I" would say what was wrong with the OP's post (in my opinion) is this:
Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
When it could have read this way:
"Here's my 2c from a long time Elder Scrolls, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblvioin, Skyrim player ..."
I disagree. He stated it correctly.
This is an MMO first and a TES game second. That may not be to everyone's liking but at least it's honest.
Most of ESO's problems stem from the developers trying to cater to both: designing it as "MMO first" but marketing it as "TES first."
EDIT: as to your other point.... when I say "tacked on" I don't mean true post-50 content and adventure zones are that.
The game would feel totally different if end game was adventure zones. Imperial City Dungeon and Cyrodiil PVP. As it is, the VR "other faction" solo questing became to much the focus... and that is a tacked-on stop-gap.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by battlesam Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
Stopped reading there...
ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.
Judging by his post, he clearly believes its the other way around.
These PvP'ers will be the death of MMORPG's. They don't understand them, and as such, do nothing but complain about them.
It's so bad, I had to make a sig about it.
I don't think pvp players will be the death of mmo's.
Having said that "I" would say what was wrong with the OP's post (in my opinion) is this:
Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
When it could have read this way:
"Here's my 2c from a long time Elder Scrolls, Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblvioin, Skyrim player ..."
I disagree. He stated it correctly.
This is an MMO first and a TES game second. That may not be to everyone's liking but at least it's honest.
Most of ESO's problems stem from the developers trying to cater to both: designing it as "MMO first" but marketing it as "TES first."
It being an mmo first doesn't negate the elder scrolls roots any more than it being an "mmo first" supports the direction of Warhammer, WoW or DAoC.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The biggest problem is that it's cool to bash the new kid on the block. It doesn't matter if it is the greatest game since throwing a rock upside someone's head (yay cavemen gaming lol), people are going to hate on it, just to hate on it. Look at WoW, everyone hates on WoW, but when they release beta keys for WoD, you get a thread 500 pages long full of people QQ'ing that they didn't get a key lol.
It being an mmo first doesn't negate the elder scrolls roots any more than it being an "mmo first" supports the direction of Warhammer, WoW or DAoC.
One doesn't negate the other but although the difference may be subtle it's very important. MMOs sink or swim based on their MMO qualities. They are judged and compared against all other MMOs regardless of the IP roots.
You may really, really like the gravy enough to be attracted just by the gravy.... but it's still only gravy.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
It being an mmo first doesn't negate the elder scrolls roots any more than it being an "mmo first" supports the direction of Warhammer, WoW or DAoC.
One doesn't negate the other but although the difference may be subtle it's very important. MMOs sink or swim based on their MMO qualities. They are judged and compared against all other MMOs regardless of the IP roots.
You may really, really like the gravy enough to be attracted just by the gravy.... but it's still only gravy.
I'll definitely agree with you that "an mmo has to be an mmo".
However, "this mmo" is based off of the Elder Scrolls series. I realize that there are players (OP included) who want the game to be a DAoC/Warhammer successor but really look at the game.
If this game was to be a PvP game the rest of the game would have supported it. I would bet that more effort and money went into creating the pve portion of the game over the pvp portion.
So "sure" the game has to be an mmo but that doesn't mean that it can't better support the Elder Scrolls Component.
As much as I love pvp (and I do love pvp) the pvp in ESO feels shoe horned into the game.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It being an mmo first doesn't negate the elder scrolls roots any more than it being an "mmo first" supports the direction of Warhammer, WoW or DAoC.
One doesn't negate the other but although the difference may be subtle it's very important. MMOs sink or swim based on their MMO qualities. They are judged and compared against all other MMOs regardless of the IP roots.
You may really, really like the gravy enough to be attracted just by the gravy.... but it's still only gravy.
I'll definitely agree with you that "an mmo has to be an mmo".
However, "this mmo" is based off of the Elder Scrolls series. I realize that there are players (OP included) who want the game to be a DAoC/Warhammer successor but really look at the game.
If this game was to be a PvP game the rest of the game would have supported it. I would bet that more effort and money went into creating the pve portion of the game over the pvp portion.
So "sure" the game has to be an mmo but that doesn't mean that it can't better support the Elder Scrolls Component.
As much as I love pvp (and I do love pvp) the pvp in ESO feels shoe horned into the game.
DAOC also had great PVE - especially the huge multi-level open world dungeons. Darkness Falls was just the biggest of them with the added PVP but it was still a place to PVE. This MMO was never meant to be Camelot Unchained which is a much more drastic PVP-only DAOC reboot. PVE was always meant to play a part in ESO... just not this much.
The reason ESO currently feels too PVE-focused is due to the recycling of the other two faction areas as VR content that gives you 3X the PVE questing content. That's triple the original strictly faction-locked design and changes the feel of the purpose of the game dramatically... in addition to being a very unpopular feature when all is said and done.
And I beg to differ, Cyrodiil may not be feature-complete yet (i.e. Imperial City) but it is the central feature. Even the PVE story lines make it clear that the war is the focus of the whole game - it's only the main personal solo story that doesn't concern itself with that.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
And I beg to differ, Cyrodiil may not be feature-complete yet (i.e. Imperial City) but it is the central feature. Even the PVE story lines make it clear that the war is the focus of the whole game - it's only the main personal solo story that doesn't concern itself with that.
Except that you can remove the pvp portion of the game and nothing would change in the pve portion.
Same goes for removing the pve portion.
And does it really make sense to have an entire game with all the resources that went into creating all that voice recorded pve content only to dump players into pvp?
Even in other games there are raids where pve players would be dumped into.
ESO is essentially a Frankenstein's Monster game with two parts tenuously stuck together.
Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying it but the more I play the more it feels like it wasn't well thought out.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
And I beg to differ, Cyrodiil may not be feature-complete yet (i.e. Imperial City) but it is the central feature. Even the PVE story lines make it clear that the war is the focus of the whole game - it's only the main personal solo story that doesn't concern itself with that.
Except that you can remove the pvp portion of the game and nothing would change in the pve portion.
Same goes for removing the pve portion.
And does it really make sense to have an entire game with all the resources that went into creating all that voice recorded pve content only to dump players into pvp?
Even in other games there are raids where pve players would be dumped into.
ESO is essentially a Frankenstein's Monster game with two parts tenuously stuck together.
Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying it but the more I play the more it feels like it wasn't well thought out.
You could say the same about removing the PVE and the PVP not changing... but that would be CU.
The voice recordings were really just a must for whatever PVE content they had... and there was always meant to be some PVE content. MMOs in 2014 without it stick out like antique sore thumbs.
I think you're looking at the ESO that released and assuming that this was the ESO they had in mind all along. I don't agree with that. The triple questing content was a later addition that gives the game an unintended PVE focus. Remove that and add our own version of Darkness Falls and the PVP focus becomes more clear.
I can certainly agree with you on the Frankenstein comment: the parts are just not coming together very well yet.
And I'm also still enjoying it. I just hope they add the Imperial City soon and make the drudgery of VR questing in the other areas an option for those who want that sort of thing instead of the de-facto mandatory content it currently is.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
I think you're looking at the ESO that released and assuming that this was the ESO they had in mind all along. I don't agree with that. The triple questing content was a later addition that gives the game an unintended PVE focus. Remove that and add our own version of Darkness Falls and the PVP focus becomes more clear.
Actually you are probably right on that.
Though I knew the "triple questing" was added later, it didn't occur to me that this weighted the game toward pve.
I still think that their announcement of adventure zones at the start and their only showing pve portions of the game up until the last part of development still takes away the weight of pvp if that is indeed what they wanted.
Now, to be fair, they were touting the three sided war since the start yet not really showing any of it. I always found that suspect.
And again, I still say (though this is an old round and round discussion) that their pinning an elder scrolls game faction pvp combat completely missed the mark for what an elder scrolls mmo could have been.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
The next TES should be a normal TES game, but now with multiplay (6players max) options that are Module driven like the Early Never Winter did. How cool would a TES game be if there was floating a Dungeon Master above you throwing in all sorts of stuff at you?
Originally posted by waxmask The next TES should be a normal TES game, but now with multiplay (6players max) options that are Module driven like the Early Never Winter did. How cool would a TES game be if there was floating a Dungeon Master above you throwing in all sorts of stuff at you?
yup...
its ironic that the only game that really did D&D correctly was Neverwinter Nights 1 (not the AOL version).
30+ years of the genre and only one game seemed to understand.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Originally posted by battlesam Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
Stopped reading there...
ESO is totally different than those 3 you name. ESO was build to be a PvE MMO all around questing, while the ones you played are made with PvP in mind.
If you really stopped reading after the first line, then you should have seriously considered not posting anything for a while, a long while.
Originally posted by waxmask The next TES should be a normal TES game, but now with multiplay (6players max) options that are Module driven like the Early Never Winter did. How cool would a TES game be if there was floating a Dungeon Master above you throwing in all sorts of stuff at you?
If Todd Howard is still the show-runner this time around, I wouldn't heighten my expectations for such features, he seemed to feel such focus would detract from the whole. I can't really blame him there either, as I think he's right.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Originally posted by waxmask The next TES should be a normal TES game, but now with multiplay (6players max) options that are Module driven like the Early Never Winter did. How cool would a TES game be if there was floating a Dungeon Master above you throwing in all sorts of stuff at you?
I think it's almost a given that most future "single player" RPGs will have an online co-op component. Things are definitely trending that way.
I just picked up Divinity - Original Sin earlier this week on Steam and it has co-op play. It's also very D&D-like in its depth of abilities and retro Neverwinter Nights / Baldur's Gate-like turned based system, although not following official D&D rules. A great little game I'd recommend to everyone.
"Social media gives legions of idiots the right to speak when they once only spoke at a bar after a glass of wine, without harming the community ... but now they have the same right to speak as a Nobel Prize winner. It's the invasion of the idiots”
― Umberto Eco
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?” ― CD PROJEKT RED
Originally posted by waxmask The next TES should be a normal TES game, but now with multiplay (6players max) options that are Module driven like the Early Never Winter did. How cool would a TES game be if there was floating a Dungeon Master above you throwing in all sorts of stuff at you?
I think it's almost a given that most future "single player" RPGs will have an online co-op component. Things are definitely trending that way.
I just picked up Divinity - Original Sin earlier this week on Steam and it has co-op play. It's also very D&D-like in its depth of abilities and retro Neverwinter Nights / Baldur's Gate-like turned based system, although not following official D&D rules. A great little game I'd recommend to everyone.
Definitely my next purchase.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Honestly ESO is the worst mmo I have ever played in my life. If you guys want to do the right thing, scrape this piece of shit off your shoe and move on. Well that's what the smart ones will do. The people grinding vet levels opted to scrape it off and then eat it. I honestly don't understand why you would subject yourself to that vet grind. If you somehow convinced yourself it's "fun" then might I suggest the delicous tootsie rolls that can be found in your local cat box.
Originally posted by Joejc7135 Honestly ESO is the worst mmo I have ever played in my life. If you guys want to do the right thing, scrape this piece of shit off your shoe and move on. Well that's what the smart ones will do. The people grinding vet levels opted to scrape it off and then eat it. I honestly don't understand why you would subject yourself to that vet grind. If you somehow convinced yourself it's "fun" then might I suggest the delicous tootsie rolls that can be found in your local cat box.
The smart ones realize tastes differ and goals differ, can't expect everyone to feel as you do.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Still way to early to throw in the towel for ESO, we seen many mmo's in the last decade that players wanted to put on the chopping block and frankly the doom and gloom posts get very old quickly.
The only reboot that ESO may possibly go though is the F2P routine as well as many mmo's that are released now, however I don't see ESO going to free to play or choice of subscription base like SWTOR anytime this year.
But like many, if ESO was a sandbox game like AC or SWG back in the days with todays technology, I believe you would have had a winner. The game has a lot going for it, but still falls short on what a MMORPG is suppose to be all about.
Originally posted by battlesam Here's my 2c from a long time DAoC, WoW, WAR player.
I never believed the bugs or the bots were that serious. Those problems are easily fixable. The bigger problem, the one which caused the mass exodus is a design issue, imo.
Can a game company counter players who get to cap level within a month even if the amount of calculated content is much higher yet ignored by the masses who enter a new released MMORPG?
In a nutshell the population spreads out so thinly by Vet time that the impetus for playing disappears. Certainly the “solo” aspect to the game compounds that problem, but in the world of MMO’s low population is king…of death. Maybe the game world in ESO and Cyrodill in particular is too big.
The overal population I see, especially when entering banks is players level 15-40 and here and there some VR's, this of course due to me being still fearly low level with my highest character now 24. Atleast around these levels I do not notice any player loss but also have to admit to not have stepped into Cyrodill since release and only ventured there in beta and havn't been into any guild. Though I always expect allot of players will leave after the first month or 2.
It seems to me the game was originally built with Cyrodill functioning as the main end game. (Certainly the itemization in the game leads one to that conclusion.) The decision to access the other realms and force Vet levels on everyone changed the nature of the game from pvp to pve. The pve was thus tacked on to a pvp game. (At least ESO can claim that as a first, dubious as it is).
As said not touced PVP since release, I am going to but currently enjoying the PVE portion of the game.
I think Vet levels put an unexpected pve barrier between level 50 and Cyrodill effectively reducing the subscription population. So, is character progression necessary in the secondary realms? Can’t the other factions be a place of slightly harder dungeons or something?
Still am wondering why players didn't get into pvp from level 10 again only from beta experiance there is more then zerg in Cyrodill.
The second thing on my mind is the lack of connections between places in the game world. WOW had linear progression zone by zone crap, but at least they had two continents which you continuously visited, and the major cities, Orgrimmar in my case, was a hub. Who the *** goes to Mournhold? But more importantly this zone by zone levelling is passé. Why can’t you do some level 1-20 quests in all the zones and then go back and forth? That would have made the most sense especially in a game like ESO. For example as a level 15 EP main story quest you travel to Auridon to assassinate someone.
So far in the maincity's I have visited it seems many revisit thos city's allot, of course in the end mostly for the banks. But level scaling so you can explore anywhere might sound tempting but in a MMORPG setting it will rather become boring as it doesn't give's the PVE player something to really look forward to in my opinion.
I do believe this is the nicest game world I’ve seen and maybe, just maybe, the trend for these large companies to spend a ton of money on MMORPG game development only to see an epic fail is changing. Maybe it’s build it and then after 4-5 months close, rework, and reboot.
Cheers
But in the end I don't want this game to reboot, I see absolute no reason why apart from the complaints I am reading which I am not experiancing them as they seem to. Maybe it's because I like to take my time when I play a MMORPG and ESO grants me a certain freedom and allows me to take my time, thought that was something that ES players would liked instead I read ES players reach VR level within a month.
Many things ES related that many felt missing from ESO seems to be in the works (sure would have been nice to have it all in from release) but in the works anyway's. Many early release issue's like bots and other bugs seem to been fixed for the most part. Personaly havn't experianed any bot or bug the last few weeks and a month +.
As they continue to say in this thread, what they wanted all along was Skyrim+ co-op and nothing short of that would have satisfied them. But that's a different game altogether that they never set-out to make. They should have just said that's not the game they were making, taken their lumps and carried on. Their decision to throw them a bone with more PVE content didn't help anything and just confused the game's focus..
I don't think they threw many bones at all.
PvE end game with Adventure Zones was discussed from the very start. Additionally, it seems to take a lot of resources to create so it's not really a "bone" as a major undertaking.
Yeah, I'm not seeing where they really threw a bone at us whatsoever. For me, nothing short of coop Tamriel would have satisfied me. They knew they were walking a thin line with this game, which that's fine. For those that enjoy this, good on you. What I'm concerned about is that the less than stellar reception of ESO may diminish the chance of getting the game I actually want. I also worry that Zeni/Beth will decree that no Elder Scrolls game will feature multiplayer because they don't want to have even more competition with their MMO. This creates a very dire impetus for a reboot should those assumption be correct. Of course, they could just be speculation. Time will tell, but seems like games are getting less and less in depth as time goes on.
Co-op play adds a lot of overhead to a single-player game. There is the matter of phasing (whose world are we in, anyhow? Whose decisions "count" for what the world looks like?) There is the matter of difficulty - balancing single and multiple player events is non-trivial. And there is the matter of yield - if I'm a single-player gamer, would I rather have more cool things for me to do, or would I rather have them invest a ton of resources into a feature that I won't use? I just don't think that the ES model is a good one for co-op play. That works a lot better for games with either 1) a very linear game-play experience or 2) low threshold hop-in-hop-out events, like first person shooters.
Originally posted by Destai No, it's time for Bethesda to make an Elder Scrolls 6 that's all of Tamriel with a multiplayer mode. That's what many people want - Skyrim/Oblivion/etc. with friends, not a DAOC style game.
Truth! They should have never created an Elder Scrolls Game in the form of DAOC.
Edit... oops looked liked I was all for the way they created the game... did not mean to do so. Always proof read.
This game needs a good reboot. Or enema, whatever. As it stands, this "MMO" pseudo RPG will be the death of the Elder Scrolls franchise, as Bethesda / Zenimax sinks more and more money into a bottomless pit to try and make a fun game that hasn't even come out on consoles yet. At this rate, I don't really expect an ESO 6 any more than I expect a Half Life 3. Difference being Steam excelled in other areas, and Bethesda/Zenimax is sinking in a lost cause.
Its the first themepark MMORPG i can enjoy playing. Even when i notice the lack of sandbox and the overlay feeling of "this isnt a full MMORPG" i can't stop enjoying the gameplay so far.
It puzzles me...
But no, Zenimax is on something here. They should continue make this game more and more sandboxy and MMORPG'ish but NO to reboot, because they created a gem so far.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Comments
I don't think they threw many bones at all.
PvE end game with Adventure Zones was discussed from the very start. Additionally, it seems to take a lot of resources to create so it's not really a "bone" as a major undertaking.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I disagree. He stated it correctly.
This is an MMO first and a TES game second. That may not be to everyone's liking but at least it's honest.
Most of ESO's problems stem from the developers trying to cater to both: designing it as "MMO first" but marketing it as "TES first."
EDIT: as to your other point.... when I say "tacked on" I don't mean true post-50 content and adventure zones are that.
The game would feel totally different if end game was adventure zones. Imperial City Dungeon and Cyrodiil PVP. As it is, the VR "other faction" solo questing became to much the focus... and that is a tacked-on stop-gap.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
It being an mmo first doesn't negate the elder scrolls roots any more than it being an "mmo first" supports the direction of Warhammer, WoW or DAoC.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
One doesn't negate the other but although the difference may be subtle it's very important. MMOs sink or swim based on their MMO qualities. They are judged and compared against all other MMOs regardless of the IP roots.
You may really, really like the gravy enough to be attracted just by the gravy.... but it's still only gravy.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
I'll definitely agree with you that "an mmo has to be an mmo".
However, "this mmo" is based off of the Elder Scrolls series. I realize that there are players (OP included) who want the game to be a DAoC/Warhammer successor but really look at the game.
If this game was to be a PvP game the rest of the game would have supported it. I would bet that more effort and money went into creating the pve portion of the game over the pvp portion.
So "sure" the game has to be an mmo but that doesn't mean that it can't better support the Elder Scrolls Component.
As much as I love pvp (and I do love pvp) the pvp in ESO feels shoe horned into the game.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
DAOC also had great PVE - especially the huge multi-level open world dungeons. Darkness Falls was just the biggest of them with the added PVP but it was still a place to PVE. This MMO was never meant to be Camelot Unchained which is a much more drastic PVP-only DAOC reboot. PVE was always meant to play a part in ESO... just not this much.
The reason ESO currently feels too PVE-focused is due to the recycling of the other two faction areas as VR content that gives you 3X the PVE questing content. That's triple the original strictly faction-locked design and changes the feel of the purpose of the game dramatically... in addition to being a very unpopular feature when all is said and done.
And I beg to differ, Cyrodiil may not be feature-complete yet (i.e. Imperial City) but it is the central feature. Even the PVE story lines make it clear that the war is the focus of the whole game - it's only the main personal solo story that doesn't concern itself with that.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Except that you can remove the pvp portion of the game and nothing would change in the pve portion.
Same goes for removing the pve portion.
And does it really make sense to have an entire game with all the resources that went into creating all that voice recorded pve content only to dump players into pvp?
Even in other games there are raids where pve players would be dumped into.
ESO is essentially a Frankenstein's Monster game with two parts tenuously stuck together.
Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying it but the more I play the more it feels like it wasn't well thought out.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
You could say the same about removing the PVE and the PVP not changing... but that would be CU.
The voice recordings were really just a must for whatever PVE content they had... and there was always meant to be some PVE content. MMOs in 2014 without it stick out like antique sore thumbs.
I think you're looking at the ESO that released and assuming that this was the ESO they had in mind all along. I don't agree with that. The triple questing content was a later addition that gives the game an unintended PVE focus. Remove that and add our own version of Darkness Falls and the PVP focus becomes more clear.
I can certainly agree with you on the Frankenstein comment: the parts are just not coming together very well yet.
And I'm also still enjoying it. I just hope they add the Imperial City soon and make the drudgery of VR questing in the other areas an option for those who want that sort of thing instead of the de-facto mandatory content it currently is.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Actually you are probably right on that.
Though I knew the "triple questing" was added later, it didn't occur to me that this weighted the game toward pve.
I still think that their announcement of adventure zones at the start and their only showing pve portions of the game up until the last part of development still takes away the weight of pvp if that is indeed what they wanted.
Now, to be fair, they were touting the three sided war since the start yet not really showing any of it. I always found that suspect.
And again, I still say (though this is an old round and round discussion) that their pinning an elder scrolls game faction pvp combat completely missed the mark for what an elder scrolls mmo could have been.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
yup...
its ironic that the only game that really did D&D correctly was Neverwinter Nights 1 (not the AOL version).
30+ years of the genre and only one game seemed to understand.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
If you really stopped reading after the first line, then you should have seriously considered not posting anything for a while, a long while.
If Todd Howard is still the show-runner this time around, I wouldn't heighten my expectations for such features, he seemed to feel such focus would detract from the whole. I can't really blame him there either, as I think he's right.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I think it's almost a given that most future "single player" RPGs will have an online co-op component. Things are definitely trending that way.
I just picked up Divinity - Original Sin earlier this week on Steam and it has co-op play. It's also very D&D-like in its depth of abilities and retro Neverwinter Nights / Baldur's Gate-like turned based system, although not following official D&D rules. A great little game I'd recommend to everyone.
“Microtransactions? In a single player role-playing game? Are you nuts?”
― CD PROJEKT RED
Definitely my next purchase.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The smart ones realize tastes differ and goals differ, can't expect everyone to feel as you do.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Still way to early to throw in the towel for ESO, we seen many mmo's in the last decade that players wanted to put on the chopping block and frankly the doom and gloom posts get very old quickly.
The only reboot that ESO may possibly go though is the F2P routine as well as many mmo's that are released now, however I don't see ESO going to free to play or choice of subscription base like SWTOR anytime this year.
But like many, if ESO was a sandbox game like AC or SWG back in the days with todays technology, I believe you would have had a winner. The game has a lot going for it, but still falls short on what a MMORPG is suppose to be all about.
But in the end I don't want this game to reboot, I see absolute no reason why apart from the complaints I am reading which I am not experiancing them as they seem to. Maybe it's because I like to take my time when I play a MMORPG and ESO grants me a certain freedom and allows me to take my time, thought that was something that ES players would liked instead I read ES players reach VR level within a month.
Many things ES related that many felt missing from ESO seems to be in the works (sure would have been nice to have it all in from release) but in the works anyway's. Many early release issue's like bots and other bugs seem to been fixed for the most part. Personaly havn't experianed any bot or bug the last few weeks and a month +.
Yeah, I'm not seeing where they really threw a bone at us whatsoever. For me, nothing short of coop Tamriel would have satisfied me. They knew they were walking a thin line with this game, which that's fine. For those that enjoy this, good on you. What I'm concerned about is that the less than stellar reception of ESO may diminish the chance of getting the game I actually want. I also worry that Zeni/Beth will decree that no Elder Scrolls game will feature multiplayer because they don't want to have even more competition with their MMO. This creates a very dire impetus for a reboot should those assumption be correct. Of course, they could just be speculation. Time will tell, but seems like games are getting less and less in depth as time goes on.
Co-op play adds a lot of overhead to a single-player game. There is the matter of phasing (whose world are we in, anyhow? Whose decisions "count" for what the world looks like?) There is the matter of difficulty - balancing single and multiple player events is non-trivial. And there is the matter of yield - if I'm a single-player gamer, would I rather have more cool things for me to do, or would I rather have them invest a ton of resources into a feature that I won't use? I just don't think that the ES model is a good one for co-op play. That works a lot better for games with either 1) a very linear game-play experience or 2) low threshold hop-in-hop-out events, like first person shooters.
Truth! They should have never created an Elder Scrolls Game in the form of DAOC.
Edit... oops looked liked I was all for the way they created the game... did not mean to do so. Always proof read.
Ratero.
Its the first themepark MMORPG i can enjoy playing. Even when i notice the lack of sandbox and the overlay feeling of "this isnt a full MMORPG" i can't stop enjoying the gameplay so far.
It puzzles me...
But no, Zenimax is on something here. They should continue make this game more and more sandboxy and MMORPG'ish but NO to reboot, because they created a gem so far.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)