Everyone keeps talking about these mythical "WoW Clones" but I have yet to see one. Is it because when they look at a MMO they want to see it as a clone? I really wish people would stop looking at MMO's as clones of previous MMOs and treat each game as a single game. But I think I am expecting to much from people who only want to see "WoW Clones".
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal For WoW it was more about lack of competition because its playability was way beyond any other 3d MMORPG. They also already had a rabid online player base with battlenet. They used a popular online IP. And it was just the right time.
This, more or less. Being the first gets you a lot of points, and WoW was the first mainstream MMO because it was the first MMO made by a huge beloved studio, with an even bigger marketing budget, a pre established fanbase, and a well loved IP.
It didn't do anything new. It was just a polished, simple, casual version of EQ, but marketed at just the right time.
But I thought WoW was nothing like "those" games before it??? You just completely contradicted your previous post.
It has its DNA roots in EQ, but a very casual version of it, totally changing the tone and soul of the whole game. So no, I didn't.
And EQ is ONE MMO, so "those" isn't even the proper word to use. Not all pre WoW MMOs were EQ. Only one was.
I don't think we've played the same games. It's okay to back away from your claim... no hard feelings. But if you insist on sticking to it then don't come back until you have a list of things that clearly made WoW a different game than the others. I will then compile a list of things that WoW has similar and as an added bonus I'll even include all the stuff that WoW quickly ripped off of other games when they were released. If something as simple as a game being easier than the other sets them worlds apart then this discussion is already over.
wow was a good game before they started tweaking everything and made it super easy for everyone..has a massive world and content now but all that is totally nulled / skipped over because of the "easy / fast curve" to gain quick max lvl maybe they should have made each expan. harder n harder than the next instead of makeing it stupid easyer and easyer but theres no going back now
the most simple thing all devs miss nowa days are makeing ppl feel a self of accomplishment in a mmorpg..now its just all instant gratification
You're just spewing the same crap others started saying, but the fact is if you remove all normal modes and remove the heroic/hardmode branding from the others then the game's difficulty has not changed. If it's too easy for you then you're playing normal content and NOT the content that is designed to be hard. The only thing the game is guilty of is allowing everyone casual/hardcore to experience the same content, but the hardcores still have a challenge to make through for all the best stuff.
my point is that a expan like wotlk can be skiped...the whole zone and quests...99% of ppl that play only do the dungeons with quests inside those dungeons in wotlk..same for cata it can be skiped totally and goto panderia ...thats tons of content being skiped over and kinda makes you scratch yur head and ask why even come out with zone content if everyone is only doing dungeons or raids
its gotten to the point that wow has become a type of dungeon crawler and 90% of people dont quest in zones cuz they can go into a dungeon Q and run it 3-5 times to max out and raid you can say im spewing crap..but its the truth sry i hit a nerve
I guess i have played a different WoW than you.. because the sheer amount of options and alternate pathes never showed up.
I played the same WOW as you, Apraxis. I fought my starting area stuff, then went to crossroads to kill zhevra, kill ostrich, get raptor eggs, Echykee, Mankrik's wife, and blah blah blah... same exact routine, same linear path, same limited progression system.
Definitely a fun game with good replayability, but to suggest it's because of the options is silly. If anything, it's the on-rails gameplay and lack of choice (therefore lack of chance to screw anything up) that made it popular.
You are complaining about WoW being on rails, but you also claim to be playing ESO, the most on rails game I have ever played.
Wow.
For a theme park WoW has by far the most options for leveling. You don't even have to go to crossroads, ever.
Complaining? My words were "definitely a fun game with good replayability." Stating that it is on rails is not a complaint. Sorry for getting you all emotional, though. My bad.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by akiira69 Everyone keeps talking about these mythical "WoW Clones" but I have yet to see one. Is it because when they look at a MMO they want to see it as a clone? I really wish people would stop looking at MMO's as clones of previous MMOs and treat each game as a single game. But I think I am expecting to much from people who only want to see "WoW Clones".
It's because you've probably only played the EQ/WOW derivatives, so at that level, they all seem different to you. When looking at the broader spectrum of MMOs, all the graphical dikuMUDs are pretty darn similar.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The reason WoW was so successful is that it is an easy game. It was an EQ-clone that improved upon existing systems while easing up the gameplay. Slap on some cartoony graphics to hook the kids and you have a recipe to reach a new kind of player base. I was there, I saw it happen.
The rest is history and you can add all kinds of points on top of what I just offered, they have certainly added stuff to the genre. Nonetheless, that is how it went down.
The reason WoW was so successful is that it is an easy game. It was an EQ-clone that improved upon existing systems while easing up the gameplay. Slap on some cartoony graphics to hook the kids and you have a recipe to reach a new kind of player base. I was there, I saw it happen.
The rest is history and you can add all kinds of points on top of what I just offered, they have certainly added stuff to the genre. Nonetheless, that is how it went down.
Dunno, vanilla and TBC was hard compared to most of today's offerings. And by hard I mean fights took time and if you pulled badly you died.
Remember the game got popular with vanilla and TBC (yes it peaked with Cata, but that was probably off the back of past content).
I do not think that easy-mode, lobby-based options made the game, if anything I would say it was part of the decline.
my point is that a expan like wotlk can be skiped...the whole zone and quests...99% of ppl that play only do the dungeons with quests inside those dungeons in wotlk..same for cata it can be skiped totally and goto panderia ...thats tons of content being skiped over and kinda makes you scratch yur head and ask why even come out with zone content if everyone is only doing dungeons or raids its gotten to the point that wow has become a type of dungeon crawler and 90% of people dont quest in zones cuz they can go into a dungeon Q and run it 3-5 times to max out and raid you can say im spewing crap..but its the truth sry i hit a nerve
Not everyone does, but the option is there. It doesn't mean it is easy. As far as previous expansions' content goes, who cares. The game has been out for a long time and that is a lot of content to go through to get 85... you can't expect people to quest grind it. Be happy that there are other valid options because most other games lack it... They may have dungeons and such, but it's not setup in such a way to make it as accessible as it is in WoW.
I assumed what you meant when you said the game is easy. I was referring to endgame and you were referring to leveling. Look at it from a new player's perspective and you'll see why having the option to do it quickly (if they even know how) is a beneficial thing to have so that they get caught up to the other 99% of the population already is.
Originally posted by akiira69 Everyone keeps talking about these mythical "WoW Clones" but I have yet to see one. Is it because when they look at a MMO they want to see it as a clone? I really wish people would stop looking at MMO's as clones of previous MMOs and treat each game as a single game. But I think I am expecting to much from people who only want to see "WoW Clones".
It's because you've probably only played the EQ/WOW derivatives, so at that level, they all seem different to you. When looking at the broader spectrum of MMOs, all the graphical dikuMUDs are pretty darn similar.
Just because something is similar does not make it a clone. In order for a game to be a clone of another game every part of game a has to be the same as game b.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
Originally posted by akiira69 Everyone keeps talking about these mythical "WoW Clones" but I have yet to see one. Is it because when they look at a MMO they want to see it as a clone? I really wish people would stop looking at MMO's as clones of previous MMOs and treat each game as a single game. But I think I am expecting to much from people who only want to see "WoW Clones".
It's because you've probably only played the EQ/WOW derivatives, so at that level, they all seem different to you. When looking at the broader spectrum of MMOs, all the graphical dikuMUDs are pretty darn similar.
Just because something is similar does not make it a clone. In order for a game to be a clone of another game every part of game a has to be the same as game b.
My Golden 2 and Zeus-2001 say that you've got an interesting definiton. Wikipedia says you've got an interesting definition. The dictionary says you've got an interesting definition.
To clarify for you:
If a person is only familiar with level-based, class-restricted, gear-dependent, fantasy-themed MMOs, then it's understandable that they will not see those MMOs as clones. In that subset, they are rather different from each other. When looking at all MMOs, however, that collection of MMOs are very similar in appearance, function, performance and style. At best, they are heavily inspired by their predecessors.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
my point is that a expan like wotlk can be skiped...the whole zone and quests...99% of ppl that play only do the dungeons with quests inside those dungeons in wotlk..same for cata it can be skiped totally and goto panderia ...thats tons of content being skiped over and kinda makes you scratch yur head and ask why even come out with zone content if everyone is only doing dungeons or raids its gotten to the point that wow has become a type of dungeon crawler and 90% of people dont quest in zones cuz they can go into a dungeon Q and run it 3-5 times to max out and raid you can say im spewing crap..but its the truth sry i hit a nerve
Not everyone does, but the option is there. It doesn't mean it is easy. As far as previous expansions' content goes, who cares. The game has been out for a long time and that is a lot of content to go through to get 85... you can't expect people to quest grind it. Be happy that there are other valid options because most other games lack it... They may have dungeons and such, but it's not setup in such a way to make it as accessible as it is in WoW.
I assumed what you meant when you said the game is easy. I was referring to endgame and you were referring to leveling. Look at it from a new player's perspective and you'll see why having the option to do it quickly (if they even know how) is a beneficial thing to have so that they get caught up to the other 99% of the population already is.
If "catching up to the rest of the population" has become so important, why bother even having levels 1-90? With that being said, you eliminate that "grinding" content as you call it, WoW really offers you very little in terms of replayability and content. Think about it, MoP is just a tiny little island... compared to all the other zones, it's a gnat's ass. In terms of dungeons and battlegrounds and whatnot (specific to level 90s), it offers you no more than any other game that has been recently released. WoD is the same size as it was in TBC. No new content per se, just repainted or phased content. You are losing exactly the same amount of content as you gain. So in essence, you might as well only have level 95 content and dump the rest.
my point is that a expan like wotlk can be skiped...the whole zone and quests...99% of ppl that play only do the dungeons with quests inside those dungeons in wotlk..same for cata it can be skiped totally and goto panderia ...thats tons of content being skiped over and kinda makes you scratch yur head and ask why even come out with zone content if everyone is only doing dungeons or raids its gotten to the point that wow has become a type of dungeon crawler and 90% of people dont quest in zones cuz they can go into a dungeon Q and run it 3-5 times to max out and raid you can say im spewing crap..but its the truth sry i hit a nerve
Not everyone does, but the option is there. It doesn't mean it is easy. As far as previous expansions' content goes, who cares. The game has been out for a long time and that is a lot of content to go through to get 85... you can't expect people to quest grind it. Be happy that there are other valid options because most other games lack it... They may have dungeons and such, but it's not setup in such a way to make it as accessible as it is in WoW.
I assumed what you meant when you said the game is easy. I was referring to endgame and you were referring to leveling. Look at it from a new player's perspective and you'll see why having the option to do it quickly (if they even know how) is a beneficial thing to have so that they get caught up to the other 99% of the population already is.
If "catching up to the rest of the population" has become so important, why bother even having levels 1-90? With that being said, you eliminate that "grinding" content as you call it, WoW really offers you very little in terms of replayability and content. Think about it, MoP is just a tiny little island... compared to all the other zones, it's a gnat's ass. In terms of dungeons and battlegrounds and whatnot (specific to level 90s), it offers you no more than any other game that has been recently released. WoD is the same size as it was in TBC. No new content per se, just repainted or phased content. You are losing exactly the same amount of content as you gain. So in essence, you might as well only have level 95 content and dump the rest.
You know the answer to that question... Because there are those who do enjoy doing it. It's not a game for just one type of gamer. It does a lot to cater to all. Even if you do level up quickly, all that content is still there for everyone that wishes to explore it.
my point is that a expan like wotlk can be skiped...the whole zone and quests...99% of ppl that play only do the dungeons with quests inside those dungeons in wotlk..same for cata it can be skiped totally and goto panderia ...thats tons of content being skiped over and kinda makes you scratch yur head and ask why even come out with zone content if everyone is only doing dungeons or raids its gotten to the point that wow has become a type of dungeon crawler and 90% of people dont quest in zones cuz they can go into a dungeon Q and run it 3-5 times to max out and raid you can say im spewing crap..but its the truth sry i hit a nerve
Not everyone does, but the option is there. It doesn't mean it is easy. As far as previous expansions' content goes, who cares. The game has been out for a long time and that is a lot of content to go through to get 85... you can't expect people to quest grind it. Be happy that there are other valid options because most other games lack it... They may have dungeons and such, but it's not setup in such a way to make it as accessible as it is in WoW.
I assumed what you meant when you said the game is easy. I was referring to endgame and you were referring to leveling. Look at it from a new player's perspective and you'll see why having the option to do it quickly (if they even know how) is a beneficial thing to have so that they get caught up to the other 99% of the population already is.
If "catching up to the rest of the population" has become so important, why bother even having levels 1-90? With that being said, you eliminate that "grinding" content as you call it, WoW really offers you very little in terms of replayability and content. Think about it, MoP is just a tiny little island... compared to all the other zones, it's a gnat's ass. In terms of dungeons and battlegrounds and whatnot (specific to level 90s), it offers you no more than any other game that has been recently released. WoD is the same size as it was in TBC. No new content per se, just repainted or phased content. You are losing exactly the same amount of content as you gain. So in essence, you might as well only have level 95 content and dump the rest.
You know the answer to that question... Because there are those who do enjoy doing it. It's not a game for just one type of gamer. It does a lot to cater to all. Even if you do level up quickly, all that content is still there for everyone that wishes to explore it.
Very true, but instead of giving those the leveling content they so much enjoy, they strip it away to speed up the leveling process. Exactly why? If you don't care to raid, you are in no hurry to level up. So instead of getting 90 levels worth of juicy quests to keep you busy for a year or so, you get 1 month of speed questing. You literally can level to 90 (even without the instant boost) in less than a month, without even trying. So no, they aren't catering to either the hard cores or the true casuals... just to the utterly lazy.
my point is that a expan like wotlk can be skiped...the whole zone and quests...99% of ppl that play only do the dungeons with quests inside those dungeons in wotlk..same for cata it can be skiped totally and goto panderia ...thats tons of content being skiped over and kinda makes you scratch yur head and ask why even come out with zone content if everyone is only doing dungeons or raids its gotten to the point that wow has become a type of dungeon crawler and 90% of people dont quest in zones cuz they can go into a dungeon Q and run it 3-5 times to max out and raid you can say im spewing crap..but its the truth sry i hit a nerve
Not everyone does, but the option is there. It doesn't mean it is easy. As far as previous expansions' content goes, who cares. The game has been out for a long time and that is a lot of content to go through to get 85... you can't expect people to quest grind it. Be happy that there are other valid options because most other games lack it... They may have dungeons and such, but it's not setup in such a way to make it as accessible as it is in WoW.
I assumed what you meant when you said the game is easy. I was referring to endgame and you were referring to leveling. Look at it from a new player's perspective and you'll see why having the option to do it quickly (if they even know how) is a beneficial thing to have so that they get caught up to the other 99% of the population already is.
If "catching up to the rest of the population" has become so important, why bother even having levels 1-90? With that being said, you eliminate that "grinding" content as you call it, WoW really offers you very little in terms of replayability and content. Think about it, MoP is just a tiny little island... compared to all the other zones, it's a gnat's ass. In terms of dungeons and battlegrounds and whatnot (specific to level 90s), it offers you no more than any other game that has been recently released. WoD is the same size as it was in TBC. No new content per se, just repainted or phased content. You are losing exactly the same amount of content as you gain. So in essence, you might as well only have level 95 content and dump the rest.
You know the answer to that question... Because there are those who do enjoy doing it. It's not a game for just one type of gamer. It does a lot to cater to all. Even if you do level up quickly, all that content is still there for everyone that wishes to explore it.
Very true, but instead of giving those the leveling content they so much enjoy, they strip it away to speed up the leveling process. Exactly why? If you don't care to raid, you are in no hurry to level up. So instead of getting 90 levels worth of juicy quests to keep you busy for a year or so, you get 1 month of speed questing. You literally can level to 90 (even without the instant boost) in less than a month, without even trying. So no, they aren't catering to either the hard cores or the true casuals... just to the utterly lazy.
I'm in the middle of levelling an alt. I read the quests, I do all of them, I take my sweet time. I need to feel attached to my characters to enjoy them. By speeding to endgame I lose, or rather never get, any feeling for said character.
Just because I CAN speedlevel to 90 doesn't mean I SHOULD speedlevel to 90. The choice is mine and in no way am I forced to do either by the game.
my point is that a expan like wotlk can be skiped...the whole zone and quests...99% of ppl that play only do the dungeons with quests inside those dungeons in wotlk..same for cata it can be skiped totally and goto panderia ...thats tons of content being skiped over and kinda makes you scratch yur head and ask why even come out with zone content if everyone is only doing dungeons or raids its gotten to the point that wow has become a type of dungeon crawler and 90% of people dont quest in zones cuz they can go into a dungeon Q and run it 3-5 times to max out and raid you can say im spewing crap..but its the truth sry i hit a nerve
Not everyone does, but the option is there. It doesn't mean it is easy. As far as previous expansions' content goes, who cares. The game has been out for a long time and that is a lot of content to go through to get 85... you can't expect people to quest grind it. Be happy that there are other valid options because most other games lack it... They may have dungeons and such, but it's not setup in such a way to make it as accessible as it is in WoW.
I assumed what you meant when you said the game is easy. I was referring to endgame and you were referring to leveling. Look at it from a new player's perspective and you'll see why having the option to do it quickly (if they even know how) is a beneficial thing to have so that they get caught up to the other 99% of the population already is.
If "catching up to the rest of the population" has become so important, why bother even having levels 1-90? With that being said, you eliminate that "grinding" content as you call it, WoW really offers you very little in terms of replayability and content. Think about it, MoP is just a tiny little island... compared to all the other zones, it's a gnat's ass. In terms of dungeons and battlegrounds and whatnot (specific to level 90s), it offers you no more than any other game that has been recently released. WoD is the same size as it was in TBC. No new content per se, just repainted or phased content. You are losing exactly the same amount of content as you gain. So in essence, you might as well only have level 95 content and dump the rest.
You know the answer to that question... Because there are those who do enjoy doing it. It's not a game for just one type of gamer. It does a lot to cater to all. Even if you do level up quickly, all that content is still there for everyone that wishes to explore it.
Very true, but instead of giving those the leveling content they so much enjoy, they strip it away to speed up the leveling process. Exactly why? If you don't care to raid, you are in no hurry to level up. So instead of getting 90 levels worth of juicy quests to keep you busy for a year or so, you get 1 month of speed questing. You literally can level to 90 (even without the instant boost) in less than a month, without even trying. So no, they aren't catering to either the hard cores or the true casuals... just to the utterly lazy.
I can't think of one single game where you can't level to max in at least 5 days. And that is just by questing. Besides, being a certain level doesn't stop you from enjoying the content.
Very true, but instead of giving those the leveling content they so much enjoy, they strip it away to speed up the leveling process. Exactly why? If you don't care to raid, you are in no hurry to level up. So instead of getting 90 levels worth of juicy quests to keep you busy for a year or so, you get 1 month of speed questing. You literally can level to 90 (even without the instant boost) in less than a month, without even trying. So no, they aren't catering to either the hard cores or the true casuals... just to the utterly lazy.
I can't think of one single game where you can't level to max in at least 5 days. And that is just by questing. Besides, being a certain level doesn't stop you from enjoying the content.
Very true, but instead of giving those the leveling content they so much enjoy, they strip it away to speed up the leveling process. Exactly why? If you don't care to raid, you are in no hurry to level up. So instead of getting 90 levels worth of juicy quests to keep you busy for a year or so, you get 1 month of speed questing. You literally can level to 90 (even without the instant boost) in less than a month, without even trying. So no, they aren't catering to either the hard cores or the true casuals... just to the utterly lazy.
I can't think of one single game where you can't level to max in at least 5 days. And that is just by questing. Besides, being a certain level doesn't stop you from enjoying the content.
What? You might want to re-think that statement.
Why? Give me a game where I can't achieve max level in 5 days of play time.
I can't think of one single game where you can't level to max in at least 5 days. And that is just by questing. Besides, being a certain level doesn't stop you from enjoying the content.
What? You might want to re-think that statement.
Why? Give me a game where I can't achieve max level in 5 days of play time.
Well if we're talking about the whole MMO library, sandbox games would break this list if they're skill-based progression games (UO, SWG, EVE). But I think we're just talking about themepark/sandbox-ish MMO's so i'll just list those that I've played:
Lineage 2 (and every eastern MMO for that matter), Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Wildstar, DAoC, Age of Wushu, Aion, EQ1 (even nowadays), EQ2, Anarchy Online (not being rushed by pimped-out high levels), Planetside, Saga of Ryzom, Neocron (again, not being powerleveled, i miss this game, god bless the germans), Ragnarok Online, Istaria (EQ with crafting/housing/dragons and people ERP'ing), Darkfall (though skill-based sandbox), Vanguard, Wizardry Online, Vindictus.
If I remember correctly, I think vanilla City of Heroes was pretty grindy and took me a long while to level.
I can't think of one single game where you can't level to max in at least 5 days. And that is just by questing. Besides, being a certain level doesn't stop you from enjoying the content.
What? You might want to re-think that statement.
Why? Give me a game where I can't achieve max level in 5 days of play time.
Well if we're talking about the whole MMO library, sandbox games would break this list if they're skill-based progression games (UO, SWG, EVE). But I think we're just talking about themepark/sandbox-ish MMO's so i'll just list those that I've played:
Lineage 2 (and every eastern MMO for that matter), Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Wildstar, DAoC, Age of Wushu, Aion, EQ1 (even nowadays), EQ2, Anarchy Online (not being rushed by pimped-out high levels), Planetside, Saga of Ryzom, Neocron (again, not being powerleveled, i miss this game, god bless the germans), Ragnarok Online, Istaria (EQ with crafting/housing/dragons and people ERP'ing), Darkfall (though skill-based sandbox), Vanguard, Wizardry Online, Vindictus.
If I remember correctly, I think vanilla City of Heroes was pretty grindy and took me a long while to level.
How about that list?
Not sure you're understanding what I'm saying because I got 1 to 50 in Wildstar in 3 days and 14 hours. I'm talking about play time, not the cumulative amount of time it takes. If I was talking about that then in took me about 2 weeks for Wildstar. Aion, as grindy and brutal as it was, took me just over 4 days. Obviously talking MMORPGs here because that is what this thread is about, but I did think of one game which doesn't really count because of the sheer amount of ways/things to level and that is Runescape.
This post makes me want to play WoW again from the start. Most games also lack the land size and player base. In WoW the land was massive and so many people played it which made it way more enjoyable.
I guess i have played a different WoW than you.. because the sheer amount of options and alternate pathes never showed up.
I played the same WOW as you, Apraxis. I fought my starting area stuff, then went to crossroads to kill zhevra, kill ostrich, get raptor eggs, Echykee, Mankrik's wife, and blah blah blah... same exact routine, same linear path, same limited progression system.
Definitely a fun game with good replayability, but to suggest it's because of the options is silly. If anything, it's the on-rails gameplay and lack of choice (therefore lack of chance to screw anything up) that made it popular.
You are complaining about WoW being on rails, but you also claim to be playing ESO, the most on rails game I have ever played.
Wow.
For a theme park WoW has by far the most options for leveling. You don't even have to go to crossroads, ever.
wow ,so i take you like wow.good for you,does not mean everyone else loves wow does it.in any mmorpg you do not have to go to anyplace if you do NOT want to do you.i never ever had to delete quests in wow.so i have no idea where that is from,and as far as the end game ,it pretty much sucked.least when i played,basically very few people got drops of any value.esp if you were not in the guild running the raid.the crafting was not much different than any other crafting.frankly i liked the eq death better than the wow one and the raids in eq were better as well.what made wow so popular was it was EASY.no one likes having to go get corpse.quests were simple and boring.less face it wow is popular cause it was dumbed DOWN.
I guess i have played a different WoW than you.. because the sheer amount of options and alternate pathes never showed up.
I played the same WOW as you, Apraxis. I fought my starting area stuff, then went to crossroads to kill zhevra, kill ostrich, get raptor eggs, Echykee, Mankrik's wife, and blah blah blah... same exact routine, same linear path, same limited progression system.
Definitely a fun game with good replayability, but to suggest it's because of the options is silly. If anything, it's the on-rails gameplay and lack of choice (therefore lack of chance to screw anything up) that made it popular.
You are complaining about WoW being on rails, but you also claim to be playing ESO, the most on rails game I have ever played.
Wow.
For a theme park WoW has by far the most options for leveling. You don't even have to go to crossroads, ever.
wow ,so i take you like wow.good for you,does not mean everyone else loves wow does it.in any mmorpg you do not have to go to anyplace if you do NOT want to do you.i never ever had to delete quests in wow.so i have no idea where that is from,and as far as the end game ,it pretty much sucked.least when i played,basically very few people got drops of any value.esp if you were not in the guild running the raid.the crafting was not much different than any other crafting.frankly i liked the eq death better than the wow one and the raids in eq were better as well.what made wow so popular was it was EASY.no one likes having to go get corpse.quests were simple and boring.less face it wow is popular cause it was dumbed DOWN.
Most of this website doesn't seem to like wow, I am perfectly aware of that.
I loved wow, I won't deny that. But now it just feels like the same-old-same-old, even with all of the new additions. I have moved on, but...
My point is that for a themepark, hell, mmo in general, there are unlimited paths you can take to progress through the game. In games like Rift, SWTOR, etc, if you are a certain level on a certain side, there is one, MAYBE TWO zones for you, a couple of instances, and a handful of instanced pvp zones. But in the "real mmo world" you are limited to one level-whatever play area. In wow, you can take that Dwarf, skip the entire beginning zone, and travel to whatever beginning zone you can make it to without dying, Name another "themepark" mmo that has done that since Wow.
Even my beloved Wildstar cannot boast that.
For a themepark, Wow has become quite the sandbox, you can play so many different ways, way more than most other mmo's I have experienced.
wow was a good game before they started tweaking everything and made it super easy for everyone..has a massive world and content now but all that is totally nulled / skipped over because of the "easy / fast curve" to gain quick max lvl maybe they should have made each expan. harder n harder than the next instead of makeing it stupid easyer and easyer but theres no going back now
the most simple thing all devs miss nowa days are makeing ppl feel a self of accomplishment in a mmorpg..now its just all instant gratification
You're just spewing the same crap others started saying, but the fact is if you remove all normal modes and remove the heroic/hardmode branding from the others then the game's difficulty has not changed. If it's too easy for you then you're playing normal content and NOT the content that is designed to be hard. The only thing the game is guilty of is allowing everyone casual/hardcore to experience the same content, but the hardcores still have a challenge to make through for all the best stuff.
my point is that a expan like wotlk can be skiped...the whole zone and quests...99% of ppl that play only do the dungeons with quests inside those dungeons in wotlk..same for cata it can be skiped totally and goto panderia ...thats tons of content being skiped over and kinda makes you scratch yur head and ask why even come out with zone content if everyone is only doing dungeons or raids
its gotten to the point that wow has become a type of dungeon crawler and 90% of people dont quest in zones cuz they can go into a dungeon Q and run it 3-5 times to max out and raid you can say im spewing crap..but its the truth sry i hit a nerve
What's wrong with that? The overland zones are still available for anyone who wants to level that way, but who cares if someone else prefers to sit in a town and run dungeons all day. It's their subscription fee, so they should be able to play how they want.
Right now I'm a level 43 Warlock, I chose to play a Warlock because I get a free mount at 40. Others even at level 45 are still mount less. My goal is to get to 60, make lots of money at the high end and start a Rogue or a Hunter.
Anyway, two nights ago I asked my guild if anyone needs any help 42 or below. I had a Priest say yes because he needed help with a few elite quest in Booty bay. How ironic, so did I......However the game is built for community to play, so it's not that surprising. Anyway we had to kill 3 boss pirates on 3 ships on the southern tip of SV. I could tell this guy was somewhat of a hot head ( no big deal ). He would always shoot first and gain agro before my Voidwalker could do it's job, yet he would get mad when my Void taunt would not work to pull mobs off. After insisting several times he finally learned his lesion and the 3 bosses went smooth.
After this we became friends despite his fast temper, we decided to get a group for Uldaman. After a short LFG using the social panel > who, typing 42-45 we got a full group. Within minuets I could tell that the Hunter was a wise guy. You know, certain things they say. Sure enough shortly in Uldaman, My Priest friend accidently pulled a boss too soon and got the group killed. Ya, as you would expect the two hot heads began calling each other names and that was the end of our adventures. It turns out the hunter was in our guild and they got the Guild leader involved, and I was in between....After 10 min. the situation calmed down and everyone was friends. Shortly after the Guild Leader asked me to be an officer because he liked how I handled the situation......So now I'm an officer
Arguments on my server are rare.....Everyone REALLY gets along, this could be because most everyone is mature, but things happen.....Infact this is the first fight I've seen with my journey to level 43, along with a few alts.
This is only one little example of my REAL MMO adventures. It may be a small one, but every time I turn the game on I could write a book with a little short story. Tonight, I'll quickly get another group for Uldaman, put another feather in my cap, then its off to the next dungeon adventures at Zul' Farrak.....But first, maybe I'll get a group for the quest to get the ZF Hammer in the Hunterlands......I'm not sure, the skies the limit on my choices of adventure, in a REAL MMO.
Comments
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
I don't think we've played the same games. It's okay to back away from your claim... no hard feelings. But if you insist on sticking to it then don't come back until you have a list of things that clearly made WoW a different game than the others. I will then compile a list of things that WoW has similar and as an added bonus I'll even include all the stuff that WoW quickly ripped off of other games when they were released. If something as simple as a game being easier than the other sets them worlds apart then this discussion is already over.
my point is that a expan like wotlk can be skiped...the whole zone and quests...99% of ppl that play only do the dungeons with quests inside those dungeons in wotlk..same for cata it can be skiped totally and goto panderia ...thats tons of content being skiped over and kinda makes you scratch yur head and ask why even come out with zone content if everyone is only doing dungeons or raids
its gotten to the point that wow has become a type of dungeon crawler and 90% of people dont quest in zones cuz they can go into a dungeon Q and run it 3-5 times to max out and raid you can say im spewing crap..but its the truth sry i hit a nerve
Complaining? My words were "definitely a fun game with good replayability." Stating that it is on rails is not a complaint. Sorry for getting you all emotional, though. My bad.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
It's because you've probably only played the EQ/WOW derivatives, so at that level, they all seem different to you. When looking at the broader spectrum of MMOs, all the graphical dikuMUDs are pretty darn similar.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The reason WoW was so successful is that it is an easy game. It was an EQ-clone that improved upon existing systems while easing up the gameplay. Slap on some cartoony graphics to hook the kids and you have a recipe to reach a new kind of player base. I was there, I saw it happen.
The rest is history and you can add all kinds of points on top of what I just offered, they have certainly added stuff to the genre. Nonetheless, that is how it went down.
That's just, like, my opinion, man.
Dunno, vanilla and TBC was hard compared to most of today's offerings. And by hard I mean fights took time and if you pulled badly you died.
Remember the game got popular with vanilla and TBC (yes it peaked with Cata, but that was probably off the back of past content).
I do not think that easy-mode, lobby-based options made the game, if anything I would say it was part of the decline.
Not everyone does, but the option is there. It doesn't mean it is easy. As far as previous expansions' content goes, who cares. The game has been out for a long time and that is a lot of content to go through to get 85... you can't expect people to quest grind it. Be happy that there are other valid options because most other games lack it... They may have dungeons and such, but it's not setup in such a way to make it as accessible as it is in WoW.
I assumed what you meant when you said the game is easy. I was referring to endgame and you were referring to leveling. Look at it from a new player's perspective and you'll see why having the option to do it quickly (if they even know how) is a beneficial thing to have so that they get caught up to the other 99% of the population already is.
Just because something is similar does not make it a clone. In order for a game to be a clone of another game every part of game a has to be the same as game b.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
No, you raid, or you arena, or a bit of both. So 3 endings.
My Golden 2 and Zeus-2001 say that you've got an interesting definiton. Wikipedia says you've got an interesting definition. The dictionary says you've got an interesting definition.
To clarify for you:
If a person is only familiar with level-based, class-restricted, gear-dependent, fantasy-themed MMOs, then it's understandable that they will not see those MMOs as clones. In that subset, they are rather different from each other. When looking at all MMOs, however, that collection of MMOs are very similar in appearance, function, performance and style. At best, they are heavily inspired by their predecessors.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
If "catching up to the rest of the population" has become so important, why bother even having levels 1-90? With that being said, you eliminate that "grinding" content as you call it, WoW really offers you very little in terms of replayability and content. Think about it, MoP is just a tiny little island... compared to all the other zones, it's a gnat's ass. In terms of dungeons and battlegrounds and whatnot (specific to level 90s), it offers you no more than any other game that has been recently released. WoD is the same size as it was in TBC. No new content per se, just repainted or phased content. You are losing exactly the same amount of content as you gain. So in essence, you might as well only have level 95 content and dump the rest.
You know the answer to that question... Because there are those who do enjoy doing it. It's not a game for just one type of gamer. It does a lot to cater to all. Even if you do level up quickly, all that content is still there for everyone that wishes to explore it.
Very true, but instead of giving those the leveling content they so much enjoy, they strip it away to speed up the leveling process. Exactly why? If you don't care to raid, you are in no hurry to level up. So instead of getting 90 levels worth of juicy quests to keep you busy for a year or so, you get 1 month of speed questing. You literally can level to 90 (even without the instant boost) in less than a month, without even trying. So no, they aren't catering to either the hard cores or the true casuals... just to the utterly lazy.
I'm in the middle of levelling an alt. I read the quests, I do all of them, I take my sweet time. I need to feel attached to my characters to enjoy them. By speeding to endgame I lose, or rather never get, any feeling for said character.
Just because I CAN speedlevel to 90 doesn't mean I SHOULD speedlevel to 90. The choice is mine and in no way am I forced to do either by the game.
I can't think of one single game where you can't level to max in at least 5 days. And that is just by questing. Besides, being a certain level doesn't stop you from enjoying the content.
What? You might want to re-think that statement.
Why? Give me a game where I can't achieve max level in 5 days of play time.
Well if we're talking about the whole MMO library, sandbox games would break this list if they're skill-based progression games (UO, SWG, EVE). But I think we're just talking about themepark/sandbox-ish MMO's so i'll just list those that I've played:
Lineage 2 (and every eastern MMO for that matter), Asheron's Call 1 & 2, Wildstar, DAoC, Age of Wushu, Aion, EQ1 (even nowadays), EQ2, Anarchy Online (not being rushed by pimped-out high levels), Planetside, Saga of Ryzom, Neocron (again, not being powerleveled, i miss this game, god bless the germans), Ragnarok Online, Istaria (EQ with crafting/housing/dragons and people ERP'ing), Darkfall (though skill-based sandbox), Vanguard, Wizardry Online, Vindictus.
If I remember correctly, I think vanilla City of Heroes was pretty grindy and took me a long while to level.
How about that list?
Not sure you're understanding what I'm saying because I got 1 to 50 in Wildstar in 3 days and 14 hours. I'm talking about play time, not the cumulative amount of time it takes. If I was talking about that then in took me about 2 weeks for Wildstar. Aion, as grindy and brutal as it was, took me just over 4 days. Obviously talking MMORPGs here because that is what this thread is about, but I did think of one game which doesn't really count because of the sheer amount of ways/things to level and that is Runescape.
wow ,so i take you like wow.good for you,does not mean everyone else loves wow does it.in any mmorpg you do not have to go to anyplace if you do NOT want to do you.i never ever had to delete quests in wow.so i have no idea where that is from,and as far as the end game ,it pretty much sucked.least when i played,basically very few people got drops of any value.esp if you were not in the guild running the raid.the crafting was not much different than any other crafting.frankly i liked the eq death better than the wow one and the raids in eq were better as well.what made wow so popular was it was EASY.no one likes having to go get corpse.quests were simple and boring.less face it wow is popular cause it was dumbed DOWN.
Most of this website doesn't seem to like wow, I am perfectly aware of that.
I loved wow, I won't deny that. But now it just feels like the same-old-same-old, even with all of the new additions. I have moved on, but...
My point is that for a themepark, hell, mmo in general, there are unlimited paths you can take to progress through the game. In games like Rift, SWTOR, etc, if you are a certain level on a certain side, there is one, MAYBE TWO zones for you, a couple of instances, and a handful of instanced pvp zones. But in the "real mmo world" you are limited to one level-whatever play area. In wow, you can take that Dwarf, skip the entire beginning zone, and travel to whatever beginning zone you can make it to without dying, Name another "themepark" mmo that has done that since Wow.
Even my beloved Wildstar cannot boast that.
For a themepark, Wow has become quite the sandbox, you can play so many different ways, way more than most other mmo's I have experienced.
What's wrong with that? The overland zones are still available for anyone who wants to level that way, but who cares if someone else prefers to sit in a town and run dungeons all day. It's their subscription fee, so they should be able to play how they want.
WoW is the best mmo I've ever played.
Right now I'm a level 43 Warlock, I chose to play a Warlock because I get a free mount at 40. Others even at level 45 are still mount less. My goal is to get to 60, make lots of money at the high end and start a Rogue or a Hunter.
Anyway, two nights ago I asked my guild if anyone needs any help 42 or below. I had a Priest say yes because he needed help with a few elite quest in Booty bay. How ironic, so did I......However the game is built for community to play, so it's not that surprising. Anyway we had to kill 3 boss pirates on 3 ships on the southern tip of SV. I could tell this guy was somewhat of a hot head ( no big deal ). He would always shoot first and gain agro before my Voidwalker could do it's job, yet he would get mad when my Void taunt would not work to pull mobs off. After insisting several times he finally learned his lesion and the 3 bosses went smooth.
After this we became friends despite his fast temper, we decided to get a group for Uldaman. After a short LFG using the social panel > who, typing 42-45 we got a full group. Within minuets I could tell that the Hunter was a wise guy. You know, certain things they say. Sure enough shortly in Uldaman, My Priest friend accidently pulled a boss too soon and got the group killed. Ya, as you would expect the two hot heads began calling each other names and that was the end of our adventures. It turns out the hunter was in our guild and they got the Guild leader involved, and I was in between....After 10 min. the situation calmed down and everyone was friends. Shortly after the Guild Leader asked me to be an officer because he liked how I handled the situation......So now I'm an officer
Arguments on my server are rare.....Everyone REALLY gets along, this could be because most everyone is mature, but things happen.....Infact this is the first fight I've seen with my journey to level 43, along with a few alts.
This is only one little example of my REAL MMO adventures. It may be a small one, but every time I turn the game on I could write a book with a little short story. Tonight, I'll quickly get another group for Uldaman, put another feather in my cap, then its off to the next dungeon adventures at Zul' Farrak.....But first, maybe I'll get a group for the quest to get the ZF Hammer in the Hunterlands......I'm not sure, the skies the limit on my choices of adventure, in a REAL MMO.