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MMO gamers don't know what they want in a game
Torgrim
Member CommonPosts: 2,088
For years gamers whined about how boring MMOs have become, games left and right are WoW clones, they were screaming for changes and innovations, they looked at the horizon for the next big thing that will break the old classic WoW mold, something new, something fresh.
Guild Wars 2 tried to make some changes with the none trinity aspect and none quest hubs, no good, people still whined about its not trinity, no quests i dont know what to do and i dont know where to go.
Fine, ESO tried a different aproach, they made it alittle Elder Scrolls with the voiceovers and not so much on rails but still a back rail, still people whined about alot of things such as facing, people whine when they cant solo and they whine when they cant get as group going and they whine if its to hard even if they sead other MMOS are to easy..
I do understand MMO developers today, It's like catering a kindergaarden class, dosent matter what you do you will do it wrong.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Comments
Completely agree.
The complaint I find the funniest are the ones that say the game industry is in the state it is in today because the developers listened to whiners and casuals and then turn around and flame the developers for not listening to them... as if they weren't whining also...
One truism of game development. Make the game you are passionate about. Give it your all. The players that agree with you will find you and the ones that don't can go hang.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
Couldn't agreed more!
Just the fact these new generation of crying emo bastards everywhere is pathetic. That's the reason why I play only EvE Online all these shit scubs with IQ below 40 going filter themself out.
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.? -Albert Einstein
"The ability to speak doesn't make you intelligent" - Qui-gon Jinn. After many years of reading Internet forums, there's no doubt that neither does the ability to write.
So if you notice that I'm no longer answering your nonsense, stop trying... because you just joined my block list.
They are different enough.
I know what I want in a game. You know what you want in a game. The two are not the same. Multiply this by a thousand and you see why you can never have a consensus. Design by consensus fails every time.
Did the developer of Pong say to himself, I wonder what people want in a Pong game? He didn't ask, he just made the damn game. People played it. Amazing how that happens. Now it's like you must win a popularity contest first before your game is even deemed worthy of trying in the first place. Well just make the damn game and stop trying to sell it to us. If we like it, we'll play it. If not, we won't. Simple. The developer of Pong didn't expect the game to be a huge success. It just happened. Sometimes the best solution is to do your own damn thing.
Sill got my may 03 account active bu thats besides the points, EVE are in space most people love fantasy, elves, gnomes, dungeons and such.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
I know exactly what I want - an MMO which is actually massively multiplayer and not just wait in queue for your next dungeon. There are a couple on the horizon that seem to fit the bill for me, but for the time being I am just taking a break from "MMOs" and getting caught up on single player titles and enjoying some ARPGs.
For reference, when I say a real MMO I mean:
It's not that people don't know what they want at all. It well and truly is that the MMO genre has become excessively saturated to the point that investors won't take the appropriate risks, which are as simple as go back in time to the greats and emulate that. In my personal opinion Vanguard came so close to my perfect MMO, it was just plagued by horrible bugs and coding. If a cleaned up, updated Vanguard released, I'd be very happy. Though I don't see that happening after VG's failure
too risky from an investment prospective.
Wildstar has caught my eye, though I am holding off for a little while to see if the content locusts tear it apart in another month or if it's the real deal.
And as for the comment about game devs making the game they are passionate about: I'm sorry, that is just bad business. At the end of the day games are business. You are making a product for a customer. You make that product the way the customer wants. That would be like if I owned a fast food joint and only served deep fried horse butthole because I think it tastes great. Sure, it's my decision, but I don't suspect I will be toppling McDonalds any time soon and I sure as hell don't think there will be investors lining up to foot the bill on that little project. Though all of that is exactly why MMOs will continue to be lobby-based dungeon running games, except the lobby is a gigantic game world that some poor devs wasted a lot of time on.
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrQoK5VZlwBBzpsksmXtjMQ
We have seen this list before when a MMO get close to what you want it looks likes your dream MMO but it will fall flatt.
Dreams dont belong in this thread.
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
If I think I'm tired of the trinity, that doesn't mean that anything else will do. It just means that I'm tired of trinity combat. Champions Online's combat is a lot of fun, and it doesn't rely on the trinity. If I think to myself that Champions Online has really good combat, it doesn't mean that I like the rest of the game and it doesn't mean that CO's combat will work in just any other game.
If I want "something different", and it turns out that "something different" kind of sucks, should I continue buying "something different" just because it's different? No, of course not. I should say that not only do I not like what has come before, the new ideas are not ideas that I'm willing to pay for. That doesn't mean I'll get something I like mind you. It's just that I should at least be honest with myself, if noone else, about what I want, even if I don't have a clear picture of what it is I want.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Well that's one way to prove your point, dismiss everything that isn't in line with it.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Might as well say you want exactly a good game. Saying things like "meaningful" "varied", or "minimal" actually doesn't tell me anything. You say you could go on forever about this stuff but its so vague whats the point?
I think folks like yourself have it boiled down to a science with what you don't like. But when it comes to what you do like or want, its so random and doesn't really mean anything. According to your criteria, your dream mmo is WoW with no teleports and no instances. That is about as broad a stroke as you can make.
But I'm sure you can pontificate endlessly about all the little things you hate about every mmo that is out right now.
I've seen posters here dismiss an entire game because the grass was waving in unison instead of randomly. Then turn around and say "I want to be immersed." I see that crap all the time.
Bitter vets that make post after venom filled post, lashing out at everyone, blaming them for the decayed state of the genre. And then in the same breath, yearn for community and social tools in their games. Like some magical game system is going to force them to no longer be a mud slinging, jaded gamer.
Most of the problems I see people having with mmos isnt the actual game, its themselves.
Think about your true mmo epiphany, that mmorpg which opened your eyes to possibilities and made you feel like you were part of something bigger than just a video game. Whats changed since then? Your expectations. Period. You had none when you went into your first mmo all wide eyed and noobish.
Imagine if you carried your 1000 page tome of required features into that first mmo experience. You wouldve uninstalled in a day. Bug ridden, laggy, down for maintenance all the time, static npcs, barely any content, low rez, horribly imbalanced, dead landscapes, terrible animations, with clunky combat.
yeah.
Thats how it usually goes it would seem. God forbid someone around here engages in an intellectual discussion about their supposed hobby instead of a bunch of "me too!" responses.
@Foomerang: Yes, how dare I have standards. Its silly to expect someone to just accept whatever the next big MMO is with open arms. If I know I won't like it, I won't play it. The real problem is people who think that because Person A doesn't like Person B, C, and D's favorite game - person A is a troll. Meanwhile B, C, and D will abandon said game in a month for the next big release anyway and never speak of it again (Guild Wars 2, Elder Scrolls, and likely soon Wildstar).
MMOs are stale and if you refuse to admit it, you're part of the problem not the solution. I personally vote with my wallet, I don't see how this makes me a "bitter vet," or whatever you were trying to insinuate.
And yes, a non instanced WoW would pretty much be amazing in my book. Or at least remove Group Finder and I am down, or make it so you have to walk to the instance to queue up. IM SO HARD TO PLEASE OMG.
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrQoK5VZlwBBzpsksmXtjMQ
And everyone lived happily ever after.............The End.
Well that's certainly a pessimist's take on what I posted. You don't think your example is a bit hyperbolic? To turn your own hyperbolic example against you, would someone in the 50s open up a raw fish and rice shop in America? Oh no, that's just nasty! Though I bet you wish you had jumped on the sashimi and sushi trend in America. Even the most backwoods town has a sushi restaurant now.
If the designers aren't passionate about what they are building you get lackluster phoned-in projects. And as far as the publishers we're seeing a shift in how the developers are getting funding. There isn't a publisher in the world that would have backed Star Citizen when Chris Roberts went looking for funding and now it's arguably the most successful crowd sourced MMO to date, and it hasn't even released yet.
Sorry pal, but you're not disproving the need for developer passion, just lamenting the predominate method of getting financed in the game industry. And quite frankly that's quickly becoming two different subjects.
'Sandbox MMO' is a PTSD trigger word for anyone who has the experience to know that anonymous players invariably use a 'sandbox' in the same manner a housecat does.
When your head is stuck in the sand, your ass becomes the only recognizable part of you.
No game is more fun than the one you can't play, and no game is more boring than one which you've become familiar.
How to become a millionaire:
Start with a billion dollars and make an MMO.
I want a game with the freedoms and openness of SWG with the questing and raiding of WoW.
All the games you listed are extremely similar...
And GW2 and ESO were actually the nicest breaths of fresh air we've gotten in a long time, but its STILL stale air. And it had many other problems.
You are confusing passion with practicality. Developers can be plenty passionate while still crafting a product geared towards the market. And honestly, if you really think there are devs out there throwing it all on the line on some out there idea, you are out of touch with reality. I can point to a couple devs that have taken that route and very few have seen even a modicum of success. Look at Burning Dog, they have great ideas and couldnt get kickstarted. TWICE. Star Citizen has a big name behind it, and then it sort of just snowballed. It's an interesting case study but little more than that.
And comparing sushi to fried butthole is pretty out there, but whatever. I guess you could argue someone could claim fried butthole was an asian delicacy, etc etc, but thats way out in the weeds and boring.
It's all fine and good to wear the rose colored glasses and think some magical dev team will come along and all of your dreams will come true, you just have to keep buying the next big thing full of empty promises and eventually lightning will strike. Right?...
OR, here is a novel idea, be an informed consumer and purchase products you KNOW have a feature list which either entirely or mostly agrees with what you like so you don't find yourself on these very forums trying to white knight a product you yourself arent even completely sold on. But where is the fun in that?
It is just dumbfounding to me that someone would honestly think consumers shouldn't have criteria and expectations. Oh well, I guess I'll just let you think I dont know what I want/Im whats wrong with MMOs/I kill kittens or whatever.
Please visit my youtube channel for some H1Z1/DayZ casual roleplay videos!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCrQoK5VZlwBBzpsksmXtjMQ
The biggest problem with MMO's today has nothing to do with the communities inconsistencies.
The problem is that for every one thing the developers get right, 3 things are wrong. That starts to really add up as you play through the game, which is why people generally fall out as their play time combines.
Basically what I want as well. SWG with a better presentation, hence why I'm looking forward to the repopulation. As well as games like pathfinder etc... They may not be triple A attempts but they may suffice.
As far as themeparks go, I want ESO, TSW, TOR, instead of WOW, Rift and Wildstar. I prefer the journeys of the former, I don't look to them as games to spend years in, just as fun distractions to fill down time with.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The idea of "coming home" with better presentation triggers the warm and fuzzies for me too. But I am also the first to admit that would contribute to genre stagnation far more than what is percieved now.
I get what you're saying, although that's a stagnation I wouldn't be too unhappy to see
. For my own selfish reasons of course. 
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Agreed. While GW2 and ESO changed up some features, at their core they are still the same game we've been playing since WOW released (and some would argue since EQ1)
There were other directions games could have gone, and did go, UO, AC1, DAOC, SWG, FFXI, all of these are markedly different in direction, much as EVE currently is, and that's what some of us want to seem, games that follow a different design path besides the standard.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
This is the perfect response. IF MMO developers would quit trying to make a MMO for EVERYONE and focus on a game for just part of the player base then they'd have much more success and last a hell of o lot longer. Making a game for everyone just means you'll disappoint everyone.