Don't you wish Brad McQuaid was a Sci-Fi freak?

Clovis · May 2005

I'll admit, the games Brad McQuaid touches are gold. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes does look to be the next game that raises the bar, sets the new standard etc. I will definitely be checking it out. Too bad the wait will be at least another year...HOWEVER...

Imagine if all the thought, creativity and detail that is going into yet another mythical land of goblins, halflings, etc (it's all getting a bit old to me) went into creating an earth on the verge of deep space exporation, or a post-apocalyptic underground society trying to establish life back on the surface or...fill in your favorite sci-fi scenario. I'm glad to see more non-fantasy attempts in the MMORPG market, I just wish the most gifted creators out there would depart from the traditional elf-dwarf-halfling worlds and try exploring some uncharted territory...seek out brave new worlds...go where...oh nevermind. I'll play Vanguard and I'm sure I'll get completely hooked. In the meantime, I'm keeping close tabs on all the games in the MMORPG.com gamelist that do not say Fantasy under the theme.

What kind of world would your ideal MMORPG be?

Cobra1107 · May 2005

/signed

Totally agree. In fact, I love you.

I really need a deep space type game, something that fills really immersive and etc. EVE is great and all, but it just doesn't have that "space adventurer feel"

lonelyrobot · May 2005

Originally posted by Clovis
What kind of world would your ideal MMORPG be?

A 19th century style vampire hunting game in the vein (no pun intended) of Bram Stoker's Dracula or Vampire Hunter D. I've never really romanticized the idea of being a vampire as much as being the one that goes out and hunts them down. Perhaps I played way too much Castlevania as a child.

shae · May 2005

My ideal MMO, the one I've been dreaming someone makes eventually ? A really beautifuly presented horror game, with Vampires, Werewolves, Humans and with variations of each of them, set in multiple modern gothic cities with the ability to go into the outskirts for those who need the large outdoors. The cities would be teaming with clubs and work places, real live locations.

Each "side" would be vying for control of territory, converting npc's to it's faction, the pvp would be amazing with vampires and werewolves hunting each other for control of the night and humans going after both of them.

LOL ^^, oh how I would love it... deep it will happen but meh... you never ever know.

ste2000 · May 2005

"Don't you wish Brad McQuaid was a Sci-Fi freak?"

Nope, otherwise he wouldn't make games like Vanguard and EQ ::::02::

Anyway, there is a Fantasy freak that is doing a sci-fi game.
Richard Garriot creator of Ultima, is producing Tabula Rasa, a sci-fi game.
I am not sure if the gamble paid off though.
The second version of the game looks pretty dull and unoriginal, compared to the first version.

Anyway we will see, if he manages to meet our expectation..........

ianubisi · May 2005

Brad McQuaid has touched one game: EverQuest. His involvement in that game has always been marked with controversy since his "Vision(tm)" was often seen as a form of tyranny that drove many gamers away from EQ.

It's a hotly debated issue, really...because his "Vision(tm)" is definitely partly responsible for EQ's success. But it is also responsible for many of the most derided and hated aspects of MMOG. Most notably grinding, forced grouping, camping, named mob loot tables and spawn points, and so on. Let's ignore that Brad was just one of a team of three pivotal creators. However, Brad was the frontman, and for his experience in the genre and willingness to do it his own way I'll give him credit.

As for Vanguard, it's nothing more than the promise of a better tomorrow. Nothing about it is proven or tangible yet, and thus hovers in the stratosphere of vaporware.

IcoGames · May 2005

OMG Raph Koster FTW!!!!!!11111! ::::35::

j/k

I would love a generic Sci-Fi game that wouldn't be based on popular movies or TV shows (Read SWG and the upcoming Star Trek Online). Eve is kinda fun, but I'd like to be able to get out of the old ship and move about on planets and starports.

Clovis · May 2005

Interesting. I wasn't aware of much of that. My main point is just that right now it seems like the technology is outpacing thought and creativity in regards to what types of worlds could be created. The MMORPG genre is really just emerging from its infancy. The industry is bound to suffer a bit from so many companies looking to cash in on the trend and putting out substandard products. I like the fact that many companies are taking chances on more unique themes and concepts though. It should be a fun year to explore the new titles.

For a good example of someone using a minimum of content and emphasizing limitless imagination, check out Will Wright's new project Spore http://spore.ea.com/

ste2000 · May 2005

Originally posted by ianubisi
Brad McQuaid has touched one game: EverQuest. His involvement in that game has always been marked with controversy since his "Vision(tm)" was often seen as a form of tyranny that drove many gamers away from EQ. It's a hotly debated issue, really...because his "Vision(tm)" is definitely partly responsible for EQ's success. But it is also responsible for many of the most derided and hated aspects of MMOG. Most notably grinding, forced grouping, camping, named mob loot tables and spawn points, and so on. Let's ignore that Brad was just one of a team of three pivotal creators. However, Brad was the frontman, and for his experience in the genre and willingness to do it his own way I'll give him credit.As for Vanguard, it's nothing more than the promise of a better tomorrow. Nothing about it is proven or tangible yet, and thus hovers in the stratosphere of vaporware.

I don't understand what you mean by vaporware.
I think this word is getting over abused.
Now, every game that is in the early stages is called vaporware..........

Talking about Vanguard, the only reason for calling it Vaporware is that it is still in alpha, which is not a good reason.
Brad McQuaid is kinda determinated person, he knows what he wants and he is going to deliver (and if you followed the EQ saga, you should know that).
The fact that there are few information about the game is because they have some innovative features and don't want competition to steal ideas.
Sigil announced some innovative features and some of this featureas are already implemented in the game. Sigil also demoed the game non stop at E3, so hardly Vaporware.
In general I think the latest E3 was a big disappointment, it s not just Vanguard but also games that are going to be released earlier, like D&L and D&D, didn't make fireworks either.
I think it is a good idea to keep the game low profile for a while, until it gets to beta at least, which will be in 3 months time (speculation).

aeric67 · May 2005

OT: Steve, why do you put vanguardosh.com under your name inside your sig image then put a disclaimer after that says you aren't part of vanguardsoh.com? I can't say I don't understand your disclaimer, but why not just remove the thing that causes that disclaimer to be necessary?

Anyway, I have high hopes for Vanguard. Sure, Brad has only one mainstream game under his belt, but his MUD roots are in exactly the right place. As for sci-fi... Meh. Let others do that. Most sci-fi games I've played are easily forgettable. Except Traveller and Megatraveller. Now those were good PnP games... Not computer games, mind you, but great games anyway.

ste2000 · May 2005

True, it is a bit misleading that s why I put the disclaimer.
That's the name I use in Vanguard Forums, so if anyone want to abuse me about Vanguard they know my name and they can do it in the appropriate forum ::::02::
Also I want to raise the awareness about this game.
I think it is an easy target for the detractors (EQ clone anyone?), so I want more people to click on the banner and check with their own eyes what Vanguard is all about, before they can make a pre-judgement.

ianubisi · May 2005

Originally posted by ste2000

I don't understand what you mean by vaporware.

Let me be explicit.

Industry veterans understand that to get a title launched successfully in a crowded field it is often necessary to generate world of mouth buzz, we often refer to this as hype. Hype is very easily generated by innocuous statements such as "we are really hoping to implement a system that allows players to do [fill in any exciting idea]". This statement makes it clear that they desire to do such, and maybe even intend to do such...if they're lucky they will do it. More often than not, however, production cycles turn at a faster pace than development and testing can endure. Features inevitably hit the "future phase" cycle, and are not released until a later date.

This is all well and good, and any reasonable reader will understand that concept and earmark a feature list as a "hope to have" wish list. A mature player will evaluate the release of a game on its merits, even if they may be slightly frustrated by missing features.

But many readers do not apply such a reasoned approach to these comments. Proposed feature lists become "promises", and once they are not delivered the absence of such become "lies". There is backlash, and the ensuing torrent of "fanboy/slamboy" wars on public forums.

I dismiss the entire event altogether. The entire thing simply does not exist until it can be tangibly shown to exist. I am a firm believer of "seeing is believing" when it comes to software. Until a beta is produced where there are no non-disclosure agreements and features can be demonstrably proven to exist...not simply as a video in a conference demo but actually played by players...the features and by extension the game does not exist at all. Ask any fan of UXO/UO2 how they feel about the idea of calling those products vaporware.

That is my point of view, and why I call it vaporware. I realize that I am exaggerating, but I am simply countering the hype by dismissing the entire concept until it's proven to be true. The burden of evidence lies entirely upon the one making the assertion of existence...and that's what I'm demanding.

gargantroo · May 2005

Originally posted by ianubisi
Brad McQuaid has touched one game: EverQuest. His involvement in that game has always been marked with controversy since his "Vision(tm)" was often seen as a form of tyranny that drove many gamers away from EQ. It's a hotly debated issue, really...because his "Vision(tm)" is definitely partly responsible for EQ's success. But it is also responsible for many of the most derided and hated aspects of MMOG. Most notably grinding, forced grouping, camping, named mob loot tables and spawn points, and so on. Let's ignore that Brad was just one of a team of three pivotal creators. However, Brad was the frontman, and for his experience in the genre and willingness to do it his own way I'll give him credit.As for Vanguard, it's nothing more than the promise of a better tomorrow. Nothing about it is proven or tangible yet, and thus hovers in the stratosphere of vaporware.

Vaporware is usually software made by small-time designers with small time companies. That's like saying "WoW or EQ2 is gonna be vaporware" when it was first coming out, which would have been completely untrue back then because it had a Blizzard or SOE stamp on it. Im pretty sure that Vanguard is a Microsoft game, which means it wont be vaporware.

nethervoid · May 2005

Vanguard is vaporware? lol

Seriously, I too would like to see an EVE type game with land stuff. If it had that, I might still be playing. SWG is a step in the right direction. Now we just need someone that does it better.

ianubisi · May 2005

Originally posted by gargantroo
Im pretty sure that Vanguard is a Microsoft game, which means it wont be vaporware.

Go Google Mythica and come back and chat with us.

darquenblade · May 2005

Originally posted by ianubisi
Originally posted by gargantroo
Im pretty sure that Vanguard is a Microsoft game, which means it wont be vaporware.

Go Google Mythica and come back and chat with us.

LOL!!!

Holy cow..I just about blew Mt. Dew out of my nose upon reading that one

Unknown · May 2005

Originally posted by Clovis
I'll admit, the games Brad McQuaid touches are gold. Vanguard: Saga of Heroes does look to be the next game that raises the bar, sets the new standard etc. I will definitely be checking it out. Too bad the wait will be at least another year...HOWEVER...

   I follow the MIGHTY Vanguard also. But it will not be doing anything new that raises the bar. From the looks of it so far, they are tying to make a modern version of EQ1 back when death in EQ stung worse than a heart attack. All other features Vanguard has, have already been done in AO, SWG, and evne in EQ2. IF Brad were not   the lead game DEV on Vanguard, and it were being made by some other company, it would be looked at as just another generic, but modern MMORPG. Brad's reputation, and name, is what is driving ALL the intrest in Vanguard.

Another thing about Brad (my personal favorite thing about him) is he still attempts to regularly communicate with the fans and gamers. He and I traded polite arguements on the old UXO forums roughly 1 year ago before UXO officially turned into vaporware.

Vanguard will not be setting any new bars. BUT it still has some Ace cards. The main one being communicating with the fans, and to continue doing this. Even though they are not re-inventing the wheel, they can redesign it. Like how Perelli Tires made better tires than Firestone and got contracts with all the major sports car makers. IMHO it will be 2 more years before Vanguard releases... IF they do not want to have the crown as worse ever release (currently held by AC2.)

Imagine if all the thought, creativity and detail that is going into yet another mythical land of goblins, halflings, etc (it's all getting a bit old to me)

   Yes! It IS getting old, very, very, old. It could still be done differently (like if a Bard's Tale Online were made. The BT rpg series made a name for having many, and different types of puzzels, and being one of the most brutal dungeon crawlers ever created.) (or if Phatasie Online were ever made. Phatasie rpg series made a name for having the most brutal PvE ever done in a computer game. Any monster would attack you, monsters litterally 100 times larger, and stronger than your character LOL! New players, mid level players, and high level players, spend a lot of time running. There were soo many quests it was insane.) Vanguard might have a few ideas to make it stand out from the seemingly millions of other MMORPGs with D&D-themes.

went into creating an earth on the verge of deep space exporation, or a post-apocalyptic underground society trying to establish life back on the surface or...fill in your favorite sci-fi scenario. I'm glad to see more non-fantasy attempts in the MMORPG market,

   Anarchy Online was the first. It had tons of revolutionary ideas which were later copied by all other MMORPGs. And still is doing well, and still adding new and intresting ideas. I suggest you go to AnarchyOnline.com and play the free 1 year trial. See how intresting it is for yourself.

I just wish the most gifted creators out there would depart from the traditional elf-dwarf-halfling worlds and try exploring some uncharted territory...seek out brave new worlds...go where...oh nevermind.

The most "gifted" game DEVs out there are:

1. Lord British. Aka Richard Garriott. He made the first best selling rpg back in the 1970's. He has created the best selling, longest selling, longest running, computer games, computer game series, ever in the history of computer gaming. If you do not know who he is, and what he has done.... then you have a lot of homework to do before ever posting on another game site again.

  2. Raph Koster. His work further popularized MMORPGs. Lord British choose to work with Raph later on in the 1990's. Raph has the most number of hit mmorpgs. Everything he touches turns to gold LOL! The success of Ultima Online led to the CEO of SONY..... Hideki Ideia giving the go ahead to fund EQ, and thus the creation of EverQuest

3. John Smeadly and   Brad McQuaid. Neither one could have made EQ a reality without the other guy.

4. The Noreigen creators behind Anarchy Online. AO (after UO) has the record of most new ideas introduced in a MMORPG. All other mmorpgs have copied UO and AO. Including EQ, SWG, EQ2, and many more.

I'll play Vanguard and I'm sure I'll get completely hooked. In the meantime, I'm keeping close tabs on all the games in the MMORPG.com gamelist that do not say Fantasy under the theme.

Every true gamer should check out Vanguard when it finally releases. The thing that worries me is their parent company is MicroCrap...errr... MicroSoft. MS has the record of having the largest number of failed MMORPGs. I am worried Vanguard will get released tooooo soooon. *sniff*

What kind of world would your ideal MMORPG be?

SWG was the ideal MMORPG during its first 5 months of release, before the Jedi-Hologrind mess drove away all the veteran players. EQ in many ways was an ideal MMORPG due to the insane amount of detail in it. UO is also an ideal MMORPG due to the many unheard of game features it had. SWG is unofficially UO2. It took everything UO had, (and AO had) and further built on it. AO in many was is the ideal mmorpg. It still has the best ever PvP system... better than even DAoC's PvP system.

There IS a market for a skill based game (SWG, UO) and a level based game (EQ). AO is half skill based and half level based. So is AC. There IS a market for a PvP based game. I am talking about a mmorpg designed from the ground up intended for PvP, not a PvE mmorpg with a few PvP servers. There is even a market for a Permadeath based mmorpg. (Strive For Power is still the only one out. And it is successful!!!) There is no one, single, ideal mmorpg. But there are different ones that do what they do best.

No need to see Brad as Jesus sent to save the mmorpg industry. He IS a NICE game DEV. One of the BEST. But he is one of the best. There are plenty of other "gifted" game DEVs out there. Last, it does not matter how gifted a game DEV is..... because it is the moneymen, the suits and ties, who have final power over the game DEVs. EQ cost 5 million to make. EQ2, SWG, cost 25 million to make. It is almost impossible for a gifted game DEV to make their own MMORPG anymore. Unlike what Lord British did when he first started out in his own garage.

-Personal Website (A Work still in progress):
http://www.geocities.com/xplororor/index.html

-AC, AC2, AO, EQ, Freelancer, SWG:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor

-More SWG:
http://community.webshots.com/user/captain_sica_xol

-More EQ, Dungeon Siege, *UXO*, Diablo II:Lords of Destruction:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_archives01

-EverQuest II, Horizons:
http://community.webshots.com/user/xplororor_eq2archives01

-EVE Online !!!
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives01

-DAoC
http://community.webshots.com/user/sica_xol_archives02

-Coming sooner or later... CoH, WoW, MXO, UO, GW, As3, RS

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Don't you wish Brad McQuaid was a Sci-Fi freak?

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Don't you wish Brad McQuaid was a Sci-Fi freak?

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