I don't know, but I think they should have considered showing you sandbox elements VERY early on, because wading through the ho-hum and pretty underwhelming themepark elements is turning me off.
Seriously, why with all the people who only play to a certain level and quit because games jerk them around for 20 levels, did they not consider this? Is it a law written somewhere deep in some dark cubicle space that games can't be fun at early levels? GW2 is the only game that did it right so far; after that some of the game was underwhelming and had no sandbox features at ALL, but they still tried to grab you at level 1. AA is not going to grab much with derivative combat and the promise things will get better "someday".
Bear in mind, I'm not bashing the game as a whole, I haven't played enough of it, but the initial impression could have been so much better if they're trying to market it as something "new".
I forget what the item was...but exactly where do you get some of the items?
That is just part of learning the game and being a crafter. If you could remember the name of the item I could tell you.
The game doesnt tell you where though. You have to learn it or not do it.
If it is archeum though the game is currently bugged or broken or something right now since that patch. A dev commented that they know the archeum drop rates are problematic.
let me take a wild guess shall I?
archeum comes from mobs (and only mobs or quests) above level 14.
this was my point.
trick? just grind to level 50 then go hunt for crafting mats. easier that way
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I don't know, but I think they should have considered showing you sandbox elements VERY early on, because wading through the ho-hum and pretty underwhelming themepark elements is turning me off.
Seriously, why with all the people who only play to a certain level and quit because games jerk them around for 20 levels, did they not consider this? Is it a law written somewhere deep in some dark cubicle space that games can't be fun at early levels? GW2 is the only game that did it right so far; after that some of the game was underwhelming and had no sandbox features at ALL, but they still tried to grab you at level 1. AA is not going to grab much with derivative combat and the promise things will get better "someday".
Bear in mind, I'm not bashing the game as a whole, I haven't played enough of it, but the initial impression could have been so much better.
I think people need to remember that this game has been out for a while in Asia region and it is only being westernized with some minor changes for NA & EU. This game was not written for this type of player base. It was written for how they have and still play games in that area.
Now as players likes change I am sure in time we will see other games try including more sandbox elements to lower levels in games, but also how much control do you give a level 1 character in a game?
I don't know, but I think they should have considered showing you sandbox elements VERY early on, because wading through the ho-hum and pretty underwhelming themepark elements is turning me off.
Seriously, why with all the people who only play to a certain level and quit because games jerk them around for 20 levels, did they not consider this? Is it a law written somewhere deep in some dark cubicle space that games can't be fun at early levels? GW2 is the only game that did it right so far; after that some of the game was underwhelming and had no sandbox features at ALL, but they still tried to grab you at level 1. AA is not going to grab much with derivative combat and the promise things will get better "someday".
Bear in mind, I'm not bashing the game as a whole, I haven't played enough of it, but the initial impression could have been so much better.
I think people need to remember that this game has been out for a while in Asia region and it is only being westernized with some minor changes for NA & EU. This game was not written for this type of player base. It was written for how they have and still play games in that area.
Now as players likes change I am sure in time we will see other games try including more sandbox elements to lower levels in games, but also how much control do you give a level 1 character in a game?
not exactly.
the way it plays is the same way most mainstream MMOs here play as well. In fact the game play is extreemly 'westernized'.
some of the game mechanics would have been amazing to me 6 years ago so I should be fair, the game seems to be designed for people who want to experience sandbox games but never actually have ventured beyond the AAA game space so they have never experienced some of this stuff.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I'm not in the beta but been reading about AA from alpha players a lot.
This is what I've captured so far: you can level up by grinding mobs if you like without questing, at level 30+ I belive it's when most call it sandbox as anyone can murder you and most do play just for that to kill low levels all day over and over.
a sandbox is not defined by murder ^^
actually it is,sandbox are define by no rules and pvp is the big one they drop.
Originally posted by Markn No one wants a true sandbox otherwise people would be playing Mortal Online or Darkfall.
I wouldn't say that. To be fair, no AAA company has taken it upon themselves to build a sandbox game.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast, And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed: And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill, And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!" ~Lord George Gordon Byron
I'm not in the beta but been reading about AA from alpha players a lot.
This is what I've captured so far: you can level up by grinding mobs if you like without questing, at level 30+ I belive it's when most call it sandbox as anyone can murder you and most do play just for that to kill low levels all day over and over.
a sandbox is not defined by murder ^^
actually it is,sandbox are define by no rules and pvp is the big one they drop.
certifieable horshit.
and personally I think anyone who thinks PvP is the pillar of sandbox should be taken out and stoned...
that is just my view
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
The sandbox elements start at setting up your plot with a farm / house.
When you build your clipper +- level 30 and explore the oceans
When you reach the north continent and start building your castle with your guild if they are top dogs that can defend it
When you go scuba diving for treasures
There are tons and tons of options
Ignore the haters who say it aint a sandpark / sandbox, they dint get passed their own hate level to see what is infront of their nose.
Exploration really is neither sandbox or themepark specific just like combat, any type of game can have it.
Same with diving for treasures, many themeparks have hidden treasure chests both above and under water (like GW2 if you want an example).
a lot of 'features' of sandbox are in theme parks as well. the main and only main element of sandbox is open pvp,ala UO,which is why of course you never hear of UO,who wants to play a game where you walk out of town and get ambushed.
if this is a forced pvp game than i don't see it going anywhere.
Originally posted by Markn No one wants a true sandbox otherwise people would be playing Mortal Online or Darkfall.
I wouldn't say that. To be fair, no AAA company has taken it upon themselves to build a sandbox game.
This. Mortal Online and Darkfall have TONS of problems that are due to being created by a lower budget (if I recall) and unseasoned devs. Someone like ANet or Blizzard making a sandbox would get a lot of press but at the same time, if it wasn't good or it was "unfair", they would take a huge loss. Someone's going to have to convince these companies it's worth it or we'll keep seeing clunky sandboxes that have the right idea but are kind of garbage otherwise.
so around level 14 I decided to study more of the crafting. I started looking at the materials required and I saw things on the list that I had never seen before. My first reaction was, what is this, I should ask people. Then my second reaction was, no wait, this is predictable, these are items that I will 'find'; once I get higher level so fuck it I will just grind up and then take another look at crafting.
Guess what? I hit one of those required items at level 24.
shocker!
What item?
The game design is such that you aren't supposed to really "find" your crafting items. You are supposed to proactively get them.
If you need endgame armor, you don't go find it. You craft something, sell that thing, then use the money to buy your armor. Or fish, farm, grind, etc..
Crafting mats are the same. You find a way to make money, trade, fishing, whatever.. and then you buy the mats with the fruits of your labor.
'proactively get them' FROM WHERE?
I forget what the item was...but exactly where do you get some of the items?
All items you need come from:
- farm
- collect in the world
- spawn mats that can be randomly found in the world
-get by disassembling other items
- buy from NPC
- drop from mobs (also can get them by other methods)
all items can be found on AH as well. higher the rarity higher the price.
so around level 14 I decided to study more of the crafting. I started looking at the materials required and I saw things on the list that I had never seen before. My first reaction was, what is this, I should ask people. Then my second reaction was, no wait, this is predictable, these are items that I will 'find'; once I get higher level so fuck it I will just grind up and then take another look at crafting.
Guess what? I hit one of those required items at level 24.
shocker!
What item?
The game design is such that you aren't supposed to really "find" your crafting items. You are supposed to proactively get them.
If you need endgame armor, you don't go find it. You craft something, sell that thing, then use the money to buy your armor. Or fish, farm, grind, etc..
Crafting mats are the same. You find a way to make money, trade, fishing, whatever.. and then you buy the mats with the fruits of your labor.
'proactively get them' FROM WHERE?
I forget what the item was...but exactly where do you get some of the items?
All items you need come from:
- farm
- collect in the world
- spawn mats that can be randomly found in the world
-get by disassembling other items
- buy from NPC
- drop from mobs (also can get them by other methods)
all items can be found on AH as well. higher the rarity higher the price.
here is my story.
I looked to make a bow, and other interesting items. I saw that it needed this 'archium whatever' stuff and I thought to myself. I bet you a paycheck that if I grind up in level I will run across one of these things.'
guess what happen? exactly that. I turned off my brain and just followed the path and there it was in my inventory after about level 23.
now how 'different' can a game be if I can predict its outcome so accurately?
maybe I would not have minded so much if I could craft something other than fish hooks without investing in a farm
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Thought I'd add my $0.02 to the "what is a sandbox" conversation. To me, there are 3 basic points on a line:
1) story-driven -- the game is most like a single player RPG. ESO and LoTRO are examples of this, where there is a linear progression, or "main" story that the character follows. Each area is typically set up for specific levels based on the story progress, and there is little reason to go back to an old area.
2) themepark -- similar to the story-driven MMO, except there's less emphasis on the story. Players still do quests or questlines, but there are also many other "mini-games" to do, like fishing, card games, crafting, diplomacy, etc. Vanguard is a good example of this. Although areas tend to be level restricted, the world is open and there are higher-level mobs in the low level areas. So a lvl 10-15 area may have a lvl 30 dungeon in it.
3) sandbox -- there is little to no story, few or no quests, and the player is expected to make most of the game. This most closely simulates a "virtual world" where the goal is to survive and build up stuff. Ryzom and Xsyon are examples of this. In Ryzom for example, there are no classes, no quests (except for faction and cash), and no story line. Players create all their own spells, armor, weapons, etc. In some sandboxes, players create all the buildings and structures too. The struggle for survival, and the PvP fighting over resources is what most people do, instead of quests.
I haven't played ArchAge, but there are some simple questions that help decide what it is:
- does it have quests, with questing being one of the main ways to get XP?
- are there classes, pre-made spells, pre-made structures?
- do the mobs drop pre-made loot, like armor, weapons, etc, or do they drop only mats?
If so, then it sounds like a typical themepark, Just adding more mini-games like crafting, etc, is not making it a sandbox. That is just more rides at the themepark.
Thought I'd add my $0.02 to the "what is a sandbox" conversation. To me, there are 3 basic points on a line:
1) story-driven -- the game is most like a single player RPG. ESO and LoTRO are examples of this, where there is a linear progression, or "main" story that the character follows. Each area is typically set up for specific levels based on the story progress, and there is little reason to go back to an old area.
2) themepark -- similar to the story-driven MMO, except there's less emphasis on the story. Players still do quests or questlines, but there are also many other "mini-games" to do, like fishing, card games, crafting, diplomacy, etc. Vanguard is a good example of this. Although areas tend to be level restricted, the world is open and there are higher-level mobs in the low level areas. So a lvl 10-15 area may have a lvl 30 dungeon in it.
3) sandbox -- there is little to no story, few or no quests, and the player is expected to make most of the game. This most closely simulates a "virtual world" where the goal is to survive and build up stuff. Ryzom and Xsyon are examples of this. In Ryzom for example, there are no classes, no quests (except for faction and cash), and no story line. Players create all their own spells, armor, weapons, etc. In some sandboxes, players create all the buildings and structures too. The struggle for survival, and the PvP fighting over resources is what most people do, instead of quests.
I haven't played ArchAge, but there are some simple questions that help decide what it is:
- does it have quests, with questing being one of the main ways to get XP?
- are there classes, pre-made spells, pre-made structures?
- do the mobs drop pre-made loot, like armor, weapons, etc, or do they drop only mats?
If so, then it sounds like a typical themepark, Just adding more mini-games like crafting, etc, is not making it a sandbox. That is just more rides at the themepark.
EVE has quests,you get items from them, structures are pre-made almost all of them and mobs drop items yet EVE is a sandbox. GG.
EVE has quests,you get items from them, structures are pre-made almost all of them and mobs drop items yet EVE is a sandbox. GG.
Eve has some quests, but that is not how you level up. And there is no main story to follow, no level-restricted areas based on story line progress. There are no fixed classes, and players have to design and build their own ships. Not much of a themepark, and more like a sandbox. Player-made stations and the PvP over them also are sandbox type elements.
I don't see it as black and white, it is a continuous line with the extremes being sandbox and story-driven. Themepark is in the middle. Eve is between themepark and sandbox.
I made it to lvl 8 in the screwball rush of Beta opening on Thursday. I stopped, then deleted the Beta from my Hard Drive. I'm looking at another 11 hour download if I want to get back into Alpha. Screw that, Trion still doesn't know how to put in patches - If they change something you have to download the whole 22 Gig game over and over.
I laughed, I cried, I kissed 150 bucks goodby.
Trion advertises one thing then something else is delivered. I'm not going to waste anymore of my time on Archeage!
Sorry when a game does opens up with Welcome! click me and I'll send you to someone else for your free first level. I lose interest immediately.
Yeeeeeah, this is what I was talking about. After all the games I've played, what's guaranteed to tell me that AA is different than the hundreds of others after playing for hours? If I didn't read forums, how would I even know there's sandbox features and this wasn't just another grind-fest?
"I'm all about sandbox, but saw arrows and didn't know how to ignore them and go do my own thing" -OP
"Let's confuse players and give them a themepark introduction to our "sandbox" game...hehehe."-XL Developers.
+1
Like you can even avoid the arrows anyway. Maybe instead, you want to kill by grinding mobs. No, the early levels are not a good indication of what the game CAN be. It's like marketing an action movie by putting teddy bears on the box.
A sorry implication is that they think MMO players are so braindead that they can only understand a game if you give them quests first and slowly ease them into more cerebral content.
I looked to make a bow, and other interesting items. I saw that it needed this 'archium whatever' stuff and I thought to myself. I bet you a paycheck that if I grind up in level I will run across one of these things.'
guess what happen? exactly that. I turned off my brain and just followed the path and there it was in my inventory after about level 23.
now how 'different' can a game be if I can predict its outcome so accurately?
maybe I would not have minded so much if I could craft something other than fish hooks without investing in a farm
I'm sorry to be blount, but your argument isn't cohesive.
How "different" a game is does not rely on and is not a funciton of your ability to predict individual events within the game.
As it happens your prediction was correct by chance, not design.
Archeum drops from all bags, not just level 20+ bags or level 10+ bags. All bags.
The drop rate though is extremely low and there is no known good reliable way to obtain it (and that means by anyone, level 1 people and level 50 people alike) and it is a problem with the game since the last patch and the devs have acknowledged it.
Originally posted by Ezze902 For me the sandbox is the cashshop... so many things for me to buy... I cannot wait!
"Good" is always a personal preference. I am sure some peopel think a lot of failed games are good. I thought vanguard was a good game, one of the better ones. But it is closing down in less than two weeks and there are maybe the same 20 people left playing it that have played it the past 7 years.
Just like every other game out there.
What makes games 'good' is generally the amount of people playing them. if enough people can stand a game and the populations stay fairly consistent others will also stick it out even if it isnt the 'perfect' game. That is the idea of letting people play for free to make it seem like a lot of people are playing.
But sandbox games dont work at best they are niche.
Pirates of the burning see, great concept bad implementation, failure. Fallen Earth even better concept better implementation failure. Although it has a strong hardcore following it is still barely niche these days most of the RP crowd and long time supporters are not playing like they used to, on borrowed time probably. Darkfall (pick a version) failure upon failure.
People all claim they want 'different' but in the end different fails because people only think they want different. They just want the same but a game with all of the same stuff every other game has. Just doing it 'better' which again is very subjective.
End of the day I suspect most people are just burnt out on MMOs in general. Thats why they all go from game to game to game just for a change of scenery and hen when nothing new comes out they go and flounder around some old games they havent played in awhile.
But for an MMo to be 'epic' it needs a lot of people. Either for a decent economy or vibrant crafting and especially for PvP. Although Lotro has shown that a hundred or so hardcore no lifers can keep PvP semi relevant. But that is mostly because those guys are more like a family then MMO players at this point because they have all played the same map for 7+ years.
Archeage is different, for how long is anyones guess but it still suffers from the same thing all other MMOs suffer from, it doesnt have everything and it cant please every one. If it had more "Rift" qualities I would be more optimistic, but 'end game' at least for release and the foreseeable future is extremely limited. PvPers can make all the claims they want but PvP is dead now, and his game isnt really PvP anyway its griefer central and has piss poor PvP mechanics. So even as a PvP game it fails. So that leaves farmville, which is good but it gets very boring very fast and having to log in and spen dan hour or more just doing the farmville thing might seem like 'content' it really isnt. its a grind. and a blatant one and grinds kill games very quickly also.
I like Archeage I dont mind the changes as much as a lot of people but it isnt going to be the savior people think it is. No game is going to do that no matter what they want to believe. Too many MMOs too high expectations and too many people spread to thin to have any one game with a substantial enough population to have an epic experience.
The more I read about this game, the less it sounds like a sandbox MMO. And those aspects which does sound sandboxy are things like farming or building ships which I have no interest in doing.
Open world PvP does sounds interesting but without significant sandbox elements to it, it will just be a gankfest like so many ThemePark PvP servers.
All in all, I think this game is going to fail to attract a significant part of MMO gamers and certainly us jaded veterans, looking for the next Asheron's Call 1 or UO.
Comments
I don't know, but I think they should have considered showing you sandbox elements VERY early on, because wading through the ho-hum and pretty underwhelming themepark elements is turning me off.
Seriously, why with all the people who only play to a certain level and quit because games jerk them around for 20 levels, did they not consider this? Is it a law written somewhere deep in some dark cubicle space that games can't be fun at early levels? GW2 is the only game that did it right so far; after that some of the game was underwhelming and had no sandbox features at ALL, but they still tried to grab you at level 1. AA is not going to grab much with derivative combat and the promise things will get better "someday".
Bear in mind, I'm not bashing the game as a whole, I haven't played enough of it, but the initial impression could have been so much better if they're trying to market it as something "new".
let me take a wild guess shall I?
archeum comes from mobs (and only mobs or quests) above level 14.
this was my point.
trick? just grind to level 50 then go hunt for crafting mats. easier that way
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I think people need to remember that this game has been out for a while in Asia region and it is only being westernized with some minor changes for NA & EU. This game was not written for this type of player base. It was written for how they have and still play games in that area.
Now as players likes change I am sure in time we will see other games try including more sandbox elements to lower levels in games, but also how much control do you give a level 1 character in a game?
not exactly.
the way it plays is the same way most mainstream MMOs here play as well. In fact the game play is extreemly 'westernized'.
some of the game mechanics would have been amazing to me 6 years ago so I should be fair, the game seems to be designed for people who want to experience sandbox games but never actually have ventured beyond the AAA game space so they have never experienced some of this stuff.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
actually it is,sandbox are define by no rules and pvp is the big one they drop.
I wouldn't say that. To be fair, no AAA company has taken it upon themselves to build a sandbox game.
"For the Angel of Death spread his wings on the blast,
And breathed in the face of the foe as he passed:
And the eyes of the sleepers waxed deadly and chill,
And their hearts but once heaved, and for ever grew still!"
~Lord George Gordon Byron
certifieable horshit.
and personally I think anyone who thinks PvP is the pillar of sandbox should be taken out and stoned...
that is just my view
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
a lot of 'features' of sandbox are in theme parks as well. the main and only main element of sandbox is open pvp,ala UO,which is why of course you never hear of UO,who wants to play a game where you walk out of town and get ambushed.
if this is a forced pvp game than i don't see it going anywhere.
"I'm all about sandbox, but saw arrows and didn't know how to ignore them and go do my own thing" -OP
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
This. Mortal Online and Darkfall have TONS of problems that are due to being created by a lower budget (if I recall) and unseasoned devs. Someone like ANet or Blizzard making a sandbox would get a lot of press but at the same time, if it wasn't good or it was "unfair", they would take a huge loss. Someone's going to have to convince these companies it's worth it or we'll keep seeing clunky sandboxes that have the right idea but are kind of garbage otherwise.
Is AA a step in that direction? I don't know.
All items you need come from:
- farm
- collect in the world
- spawn mats that can be randomly found in the world
-get by disassembling other items
- buy from NPC
- drop from mobs (also can get them by other methods)
all items can be found on AH as well. higher the rarity higher the price.
<a href="http://www.danasoft.com"><img src="http://www.danasoft.com/sig/499105419258.jpg"; border="0"></a><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px;"><p>Sign by Danasoft - <a href="http://www.danasoft.com">For Backgrounds and Layouts</a></p></div>
here is my story.
I looked to make a bow, and other interesting items. I saw that it needed this 'archium whatever' stuff and I thought to myself. I bet you a paycheck that if I grind up in level I will run across one of these things.'
guess what happen? exactly that. I turned off my brain and just followed the path and there it was in my inventory after about level 23.
now how 'different' can a game be if I can predict its outcome so accurately?
maybe I would not have minded so much if I could craft something other than fish hooks without investing in a farm
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Thought I'd add my $0.02 to the "what is a sandbox" conversation. To me, there are 3 basic points on a line:
1) story-driven -- the game is most like a single player RPG. ESO and LoTRO are examples of this, where there is a linear progression, or "main" story that the character follows. Each area is typically set up for specific levels based on the story progress, and there is little reason to go back to an old area.
2) themepark -- similar to the story-driven MMO, except there's less emphasis on the story. Players still do quests or questlines, but there are also many other "mini-games" to do, like fishing, card games, crafting, diplomacy, etc. Vanguard is a good example of this. Although areas tend to be level restricted, the world is open and there are higher-level mobs in the low level areas. So a lvl 10-15 area may have a lvl 30 dungeon in it.
3) sandbox -- there is little to no story, few or no quests, and the player is expected to make most of the game. This most closely simulates a "virtual world" where the goal is to survive and build up stuff. Ryzom and Xsyon are examples of this. In Ryzom for example, there are no classes, no quests (except for faction and cash), and no story line. Players create all their own spells, armor, weapons, etc. In some sandboxes, players create all the buildings and structures too. The struggle for survival, and the PvP fighting over resources is what most people do, instead of quests.
I haven't played ArchAge, but there are some simple questions that help decide what it is:
- does it have quests, with questing being one of the main ways to get XP?
- are there classes, pre-made spells, pre-made structures?
- do the mobs drop pre-made loot, like armor, weapons, etc, or do they drop only mats?
If so, then it sounds like a typical themepark, Just adding more mini-games like crafting, etc, is not making it a sandbox. That is just more rides at the themepark.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
EVE has quests,you get items from them, structures are pre-made almost all of them and mobs drop items yet EVE is a sandbox. GG.Eve has some quests, but that is not how you level up. And there is no main story to follow, no level-restricted areas based on story line progress. There are no fixed classes, and players have to design and build their own ships. Not much of a themepark, and more like a sandbox. Player-made stations and the PvP over them also are sandbox type elements.
I don't see it as black and white, it is a continuous line with the extremes being sandbox and story-driven. Themepark is in the middle. Eve is between themepark and sandbox.
------------
2024: 47 years on the Net.
I made it to lvl 8 in the screwball rush of Beta opening on Thursday. I stopped, then deleted the Beta from my Hard Drive. I'm looking at another 11 hour download if I want to get back into Alpha. Screw that, Trion still doesn't know how to put in patches - If they change something you have to download the whole 22 Gig game over and over.
I laughed, I cried, I kissed 150 bucks goodby.
Trion advertises one thing then something else is delivered. I'm not going to waste anymore of my time on Archeage!
"Let's confuse players and give them a themepark introduction to our "sandbox" game...hehehe."-XL Developers.
Yeeeeeah, this is what I was talking about. After all the games I've played, what's guaranteed to tell me that AA is different than the hundreds of others after playing for hours? If I didn't read forums, how would I even know there's sandbox features and this wasn't just another grind-fest?
I wouldn't.
+1
Like you can even avoid the arrows anyway. Maybe instead, you want to kill by grinding mobs. No, the early levels are not a good indication of what the game CAN be. It's like marketing an action movie by putting teddy bears on the box.
A sorry implication is that they think MMO players are so braindead that they can only understand a game if you give them quests first and slowly ease them into more cerebral content.
DERP?
Or they just want a good sandbox, which MO and DF are not.
I'm sorry to be blount, but your argument isn't cohesive.
How "different" a game is does not rely on and is not a funciton of your ability to predict individual events within the game.
As it happens your prediction was correct by chance, not design.
Archeum drops from all bags, not just level 20+ bags or level 10+ bags. All bags.
The drop rate though is extremely low and there is no known good reliable way to obtain it (and that means by anyone, level 1 people and level 50 people alike) and it is a problem with the game since the last patch and the devs have acknowledged it.
"Good" is always a personal preference. I am sure some peopel think a lot of failed games are good. I thought vanguard was a good game, one of the better ones. But it is closing down in less than two weeks and there are maybe the same 20 people left playing it that have played it the past 7 years.
Just like every other game out there.
What makes games 'good' is generally the amount of people playing them. if enough people can stand a game and the populations stay fairly consistent others will also stick it out even if it isnt the 'perfect' game. That is the idea of letting people play for free to make it seem like a lot of people are playing.
But sandbox games dont work at best they are niche.
Pirates of the burning see, great concept bad implementation, failure. Fallen Earth even better concept better implementation failure. Although it has a strong hardcore following it is still barely niche these days most of the RP crowd and long time supporters are not playing like they used to, on borrowed time probably. Darkfall (pick a version) failure upon failure.
People all claim they want 'different' but in the end different fails because people only think they want different. They just want the same but a game with all of the same stuff every other game has. Just doing it 'better' which again is very subjective.
End of the day I suspect most people are just burnt out on MMOs in general. Thats why they all go from game to game to game just for a change of scenery and hen when nothing new comes out they go and flounder around some old games they havent played in awhile.
But for an MMo to be 'epic' it needs a lot of people. Either for a decent economy or vibrant crafting and especially for PvP. Although Lotro has shown that a hundred or so hardcore no lifers can keep PvP semi relevant. But that is mostly because those guys are more like a family then MMO players at this point because they have all played the same map for 7+ years.
Archeage is different, for how long is anyones guess but it still suffers from the same thing all other MMOs suffer from, it doesnt have everything and it cant please every one. If it had more "Rift" qualities I would be more optimistic, but 'end game' at least for release and the foreseeable future is extremely limited. PvPers can make all the claims they want but PvP is dead now, and his game isnt really PvP anyway its griefer central and has piss poor PvP mechanics. So even as a PvP game it fails. So that leaves farmville, which is good but it gets very boring very fast and having to log in and spen dan hour or more just doing the farmville thing might seem like 'content' it really isnt. its a grind. and a blatant one and grinds kill games very quickly also.
I like Archeage I dont mind the changes as much as a lot of people but it isnt going to be the savior people think it is. No game is going to do that no matter what they want to believe. Too many MMOs too high expectations and too many people spread to thin to have any one game with a substantial enough population to have an epic experience.
The more I read about this game, the less it sounds like a sandbox MMO. And those aspects which does sound sandboxy are things like farming or building ships which I have no interest in doing.
Open world PvP does sounds interesting but without significant sandbox elements to it, it will just be a gankfest like so many ThemePark PvP servers.
All in all, I think this game is going to fail to attract a significant part of MMO gamers and certainly us jaded veterans, looking for the next Asheron's Call 1 or UO.
My gaming blog