Originally posted by Foomerang When a dev will leave out features tha are present in other mmos because they are "too difficult", that's just a big flashing sign that reads "don't bother playing this game"
Or their pat response, "It will be in... later." (maybe if they can figure it out.)
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
1) Non-consentual PVP. If I have to worry about being ganked all the time, then it is not a game for me. I made it through the areas that feature that on Aion. Never again. If I am going to PvP it has to be in an area where that is my primary task.
2) Pre-order or Veteran Perks that can not be gained in any other way and have a significant effect on the game. If you have 10% extra hit points if you pre-ordered, and I did not pre-order, and I want to be a tank -- or really anything in the case of HP, then I am not going to play the game while perma-gimped. If veteran players get a free ressurection and I need to run back to the fray then I am severely disinclined from returning to a game I used to play.
3) Overweening Balance Wars -- When characters are constantly nerfed and boosted with the goal of having everything strictly balanced, you never know how your character will play one day to another. In Rift I had my character's templates nerfed to the point where I would never be as powerful as I used to be, and while I found other ways to play which were then also nerfed, after three cycles of this I left but good. There are other games like that as well. Oh, and a feature of this over-balancing is often a lack of choice. You all of a sudden have say only ONE equipment path. You might be stacking block say on your warrior, but the progression gear has LESS block than your current gear but there is some special mechanism that requires you to use that gear forcing you to play in the exact manner "they" want you to. When you start thinking in terms of "they" with a game, it is time to move on.
Pretty much everything new that Wow brought to the genre. But what i really hate is the new limited skill bar crap that just makes lazy players. One thing wow has over new games is it still gives you a ton of skills to play with as you level up. Todays games with limited hot bars of 4 to 6 skills are stupid to me. I feel insulted that the devs think i'm to dumb to understand how to use to many skills.
F2P quest hubs - quest based leveling fast leveling twitch combat instancing mega servers voice acting lack of clearly defined character roles (some versatility is fine) facade environments that seem popular nowadays. Big towns where you can't go into 90% of the buildings.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
- Tab targeting. If I can watch TV while playing then it is not a game worth playing. Also it doesn't feel natural.
- Low difficulty. Why should I even play if there is no challenge?
- Lack of depth in exploration and experimentation. I like to experiment and explore in all areas (crafting, combat, locations, mechanics) but the game limitations have become attrocious and they seem to be getting worse with every new release. The only thing left to do is to follow the red quest line like a good little lemming.
--- Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Khm, actually this are mondatory parts for me to play and have fun. Along with some others (i.e. 3rd person view, move by pressing both mouse buttons, ....)
Instance: Oh yeah I just love camping bosses and fighting for tap So fun!
Theme Park Design :It is soooo fun to have nothing to do when you hit max level.Or have a variety of things to do while you're leveling yes please take that out of my MMOs.
Factions:An ongoing and persistent war of factions makes for too many world PvP situations take that out pleeeaaase! Hate that world PvP.
Originally posted by AlBQuirky Originally posted by Foomerang When a dev will leave out features tha are present in other mmos because they are "too difficult", that's just a big flashing sign that reads "don't bother playing this game"
Or their pat response, "It will be in... later." (maybe if they can figure it out.) Saddest part is I used to believe it.
3. No risk vs reward or consequences for your actions (treating everyone like a child, no chance of failure)
General theme of no freedom and treating players like children, that drives me crazy. MMO's should be large dangerous virtual worlds.
Oddly, I've become quite fond of mouselook controls (like Darkfall). The old hold down the right mouse button to look around for no reason makes no sense anymore. I'm also not sure if I can stomach straight tab target with no way to dodge anymore. I will find out with Archeage.
Originally posted by vanderghast 1. Lack of instances. perfect example ESO. Dungeons are all empty and bosses are all camped. Instances are the best invention in MMO's ever. They allow me to play with a group when i want to and by myself when i don't. They allow a real dungeon crawl, not a goofy, completely safe dungeon with 200 people in it where you have to wait in line to kill something 2. Uncontrolled open world PVP. It's just not fun being ganked constantly by high levels with no chance to retaliate. There has never been an MMO with meaningful consequences for being a psychopath and until there is open world pvp just won't be fun. 3. Restricted abilities. This seems to be a trend lately that i thought we got past after everquest. Where you only have 5-8 active abilities and that's it. This just gets old. When you only have 5-8 actives you probably actually only have 2 or three you use repeatedly and i always find myself wishing i just had 1 or 2 more slots. Also it just gets boring with this few abilities. GW2 is a prime example of this. The lack of abilities in this game just bored me to tears. ESO was also guilty of this but at least you could switch weapons, albeit unrealistically. I'd rather just have 12 abilities for one weapon that switch between 2.
I noticed this in another poster's post, above. I think you have a point in item 1. While I don't like instancing, I like camped dungeons even less. That sucks and is a sad byproduct of, I think, RMT scum which have invaded every inch of MMO space. I would say F2P is to blame but weren't there zounds of bots in ESO? How did that happen; was it due to hackers?
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
1. Bad Placement - this goes for mobs, NPCs and foliage. If the game does not look right from the start, then it almost kills the entire experience
2. Nothing but Feminine looking Men to create - this is mostly with Asian MMO's....every male option (even the more evil ones) are very feminine. I want a brute man...that's my style...instead Im forced to create a female toon...kills the immersion for me
3. Closed in, rail like progression - I like to actually have to open my map and see where coords are...sorry...I like to aimlessly wander and stumble upon something unexpected. Although an open world with nothing in it is just as bad.
Originally posted by vanderghast 1. Lack of instances. perfect example ESO. Dungeons are all empty and bosses are all camped. Instances are the best invention in MMO's ever. They allow me to play with a group when i want to and by myself when i don't. They allow a real dungeon crawl, not a goofy, completely safe dungeon with 200 people in it where you have to wait in line to kill something
2. Uncontrolled open world PVP. It's just not fun being ganked constantly by high levels with no chance to retaliate. There has never been an MMO with meaningful consequences for being a psychopath and until there is open world pvp just won't be fun.
3. Restricted abilities. This seems to be a trend lately that i thought we got past after everquest. Where you only have 5-8 active abilities and that's it. This just gets old. When you only have 5-8 actives you probably actually only have 2 or three you use repeatedly and i always find myself wishing i just had 1 or 2 more slots. Also it just gets boring with this few abilities. GW2 is a prime example of this. The lack of abilities in this game just bored me to tears. ESO was also guilty of this but at least you could switch weapons, albeit unrealistically. I'd rather just have 12 abilities for one weapon that switch between 2.
I noticed this in another poster's post, above. I think you have a point in item 1. While I don't like instancing, I like camped dungeons even less.
Here's the problem with people who have never played a proper non instanced MMO.
When most people talk about public dungeons, they're not talking about camping for rare mob spawns. That happened in EQ1, and that's about it. It was a result of bad game design.
Proper public dungeons are almost nothing like instanced dungeons, and they're built a very specific way to accomodate a large group of people. But, when WoW generation MMO players here "non instanced dungeon" all they picture is a linear, scripted dungeon, but with tons of people in it instead of a few. That's always been a huge misconception and a barrier to proper discussion. WoW generation simply lacks the experience or broad thinking to understand how non instanced dungeons used to work.
Then TESO "public" dungeons came along... and you know what they were? Just fucking instances, but opened to everyone. They're a disaster. They're tiny, linear, have room for maybe 1 group at most, scaled, not remotely dangerous, and they have a boss at the end you're supposed to kill. They're just complete wastes of time and whoever made them should be out of a job. It's like they had a bunch of extra instances and went "Aw, our boss wanted some public dungeons... let's juts take these instances and make them public! Boom! Saved money!"
-Small zones with tunnel like terrain. I'm an explorer and hate that rat in the maze feeling.
-Linear questing and quest hub games. I feel like I'm a hamster on a treadmill and running to an area and seeing 10 NPCs with quest markers over their heads....argggg.
-A lack of fun things to do aside from combat. If a game has a weak crafting system, that is a big drawback. If there no hobby activities like housing, fishing, collectibles, etc..I usually get to endgame, last a few months and leave. I love long term projects and some MMOs have entertained me for years.
Finally....toxic communities. Some communities are worse than others. I usually don't stay in the really toxic ones for a long time.
All points are good in this thread but lets kick it up a notch here .
I was reading the WoW forums earlier ( just for fun ) and they are now stuck at there 14hrs maintenance day today. After 10 years Blizzard as got this game running on, they still can't figure out how to patch a game and change hardware correctly.
They started with a 12hrs maintenance day to have it extend for 2 hrs then another extention for another 2hrs. Total of 14hrs maintenance. The reason given is hardware maintenance. rofl
What a joke !!!!!!
Now that is something i don't like in mmo's and can kill the fun fast!
All points are good in this thread but lets kick it up a notch here .
I was reading the WoW forums earlier ( just for fun ) and they are now stuck at there 14hrs maintenance day today. After 10 years Blizzard as got this game running on, they still can't figure out how to patch a game and change hardware correctly.
They started with a 12hrs maintenance day to have it extend for 2 hrs then another extention for another 2hrs. Total of 14hrs maintenance. The reason given is hardware maintenance. rofl
What a joke !!!!!!
Now that is something i don't like in mmo's and can kill the fun fast!
1. Can't login to game because game time has expired.
Originally posted by DavisFlight ...Then TESO "public" dungeons came along... and you know what they were? Just instances, but opened to everyone. They're a disaster. They're tiny, linear, have room for maybe 1 group at most, scaled, not remotely dangerous, and they have a boss at the end you're supposed to kill. They're just complete wastes of time and whoever made them should be out of a job. It's like they had a bunch of extra instances and went "Aw, our boss wanted some public dungeons... let's juts take these instances and make them public! Boom! Saved money!"
LOL that's probably how it happened, too. Yes when ESO launched I watched closely and saw their template approach of tiny dungeons. Pretty sad.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Comments
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
1. no open world.
2. too fast leveling and boring quests.
3. risk and reward, dont remember how many times i seen "elite" mob that dont drop nothing after hard fight.
4. no group finder, get used to it in WoW and its kinda feel must have todays. sure some one may enjoy spam chat for lfg...
5. no cool abilitys.
6. asian style, i so effing hate it.
7. cute playable races...
8. boring crafting or too much running when gather.
9. P2W
10. pointless and unrewarding world pvp (like in WoW).
1) Non-consentual PVP. If I have to worry about being ganked all the time, then it is not a game for me. I made it through the areas that feature that on Aion. Never again. If I am going to PvP it has to be in an area where that is my primary task.
2) Pre-order or Veteran Perks that can not be gained in any other way and have a significant effect on the game. If you have 10% extra hit points if you pre-ordered, and I did not pre-order, and I want to be a tank -- or really anything in the case of HP, then I am not going to play the game while perma-gimped. If veteran players get a free ressurection and I need to run back to the fray then I am severely disinclined from returning to a game I used to play.
3) Overweening Balance Wars -- When characters are constantly nerfed and boosted with the goal of having everything strictly balanced, you never know how your character will play one day to another. In Rift I had my character's templates nerfed to the point where I would never be as powerful as I used to be, and while I found other ways to play which were then also nerfed, after three cycles of this I left but good. There are other games like that as well. Oh, and a feature of this over-balancing is often a lack of choice. You all of a sudden have say only ONE equipment path. You might be stacking block say on your warrior, but the progression gear has LESS block than your current gear but there is some special mechanism that requires you to use that gear forcing you to play in the exact manner "they" want you to. When you start thinking in terms of "they" with a game, it is time to move on.
1. PvP endgame and/or non-consensual PvP
2. Cash shop that allows P2W
3. Guild drama
1. Shitty threat-table based AI
2. Having to roll an alt to switch roles (not doing MxO or even FF style class systems)
3. Convenience at the cost of interaction with players and world (AH, Porting, group finders, instanced anything)
F2P
quest hubs - quest based leveling
fast leveling
twitch combat
instancing
mega servers
voice acting
lack of clearly defined character roles (some versatility is fine)
facade environments that seem popular nowadays. Big towns where you can't go into 90% of the buildings.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
- Tab targeting. If I can watch TV while playing then it is not a game worth playing. Also it doesn't feel natural.
- Low difficulty. Why should I even play if there is no challenge?
- Lack of depth in exploration and experimentation. I like to experiment and explore in all areas (crafting, combat, locations, mechanics) but the game limitations have become attrocious and they seem to be getting worse with every new release. The only thing left to do is to follow the red quest line like a good little lemming.
---
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
- instancing
- quest hubs
- dungeon finders
EQ2 fan sites
I won't even bother with an MMO that has (I can't just limit myself to the top 3 features) -
1. Non-consensual PvP
2. Heavily instanced small world(s)
3. Shallow or no non-combatant content (crafting, fishing, interdependent economy, housing, etc.)
4. F2P. I might try a freemium game, but I know F2P isn't really "free" if you want to play the game the way it should play to begin with.
5. Severely linear, theme park design. I am so done with such games.
Khm, actually this are mondatory parts for me to play and have fun. Along with some others (i.e. 3rd person view, move by pressing both mouse buttons, ....)
community being appart from such minds .
Saddest part is I used to believe it.
1. Forced questing
2. Linear quest hubs
3. No risk vs reward or consequences for your actions (treating everyone like a child, no chance of failure)
General theme of no freedom and treating players like children, that drives me crazy. MMO's should be large dangerous virtual worlds.
Oddly, I've become quite fond of mouselook controls (like Darkfall). The old hold down the right mouse button to look around for no reason makes no sense anymore. I'm also not sure if I can stomach straight tab target with no way to dodge anymore. I will find out with Archeage.
I noticed this in another poster's post, above. I think you have a point in item 1. While I don't like instancing, I like camped dungeons even less. That sucks and is a sad byproduct of, I think, RMT scum which have invaded every inch of MMO space. I would say F2P is to blame but weren't there zounds of bots in ESO? How did that happen; was it due to hackers?
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
1. Solo friendly - what's the point of it being a MMO?
2. Instanced World.
3. Auto Group finding tools.
Something Awful this way comes.
1. Bad Placement - this goes for mobs, NPCs and foliage. If the game does not look right from the start, then it almost kills the entire experience
2. Nothing but Feminine looking Men to create - this is mostly with Asian MMO's....every male option (even the more evil ones) are very feminine. I want a brute man...that's my style...instead Im forced to create a female toon...kills the immersion for me
3. Closed in, rail like progression - I like to actually have to open my map and see where coords are...sorry...I like to aimlessly wander and stumble upon something unexpected. Although an open world with nothing in it is just as bad.
Here's the problem with people who have never played a proper non instanced MMO.
When most people talk about public dungeons, they're not talking about camping for rare mob spawns. That happened in EQ1, and that's about it. It was a result of bad game design.
Proper public dungeons are almost nothing like instanced dungeons, and they're built a very specific way to accomodate a large group of people. But, when WoW generation MMO players here "non instanced dungeon" all they picture is a linear, scripted dungeon, but with tons of people in it instead of a few. That's always been a huge misconception and a barrier to proper discussion. WoW generation simply lacks the experience or broad thinking to understand how non instanced dungeons used to work.
Then TESO "public" dungeons came along... and you know what they were? Just fucking instances, but opened to everyone. They're a disaster. They're tiny, linear, have room for maybe 1 group at most, scaled, not remotely dangerous, and they have a boss at the end you're supposed to kill. They're just complete wastes of time and whoever made them should be out of a job. It's like they had a bunch of extra instances and went "Aw, our boss wanted some public dungeons... let's juts take these instances and make them public! Boom! Saved money!"
Instances
Quest Hubs
PVP removed from open world.
-Small zones with tunnel like terrain. I'm an explorer and hate that rat in the maze feeling.
-Linear questing and quest hub games. I feel like I'm a hamster on a treadmill and running to an area and seeing 10 NPCs with quest markers over their heads....argggg.
-A lack of fun things to do aside from combat. If a game has a weak crafting system, that is a big drawback. If there no hobby activities like housing, fishing, collectibles, etc..I usually get to endgame, last a few months and leave. I love long term projects and some MMOs have entertained me for years.
Finally....toxic communities. Some communities are worse than others. I usually don't stay in the really toxic ones for a long time.
All points are good in this thread but lets kick it up a notch here .
I was reading the WoW forums earlier ( just for fun ) and they are now stuck at there 14hrs maintenance day today. After 10 years Blizzard as got this game running on, they still can't figure out how to patch a game and change hardware correctly.
They started with a 12hrs maintenance day to have it extend for 2 hrs then another extention for another 2hrs. Total of 14hrs maintenance. The reason given is hardware maintenance. rofl
What a joke !!!!!!
Now that is something i don't like in mmo's and can kill the fun fast!
1. Can't login to game because game time has expired.
2. Can't login to game because servers are down.
3. Can't login to game because of service outage.
There, I fixed it for you.
1. PETS a profusion of pets of various sizes (each with their own emote) that follow the owners makes me feel like I'm in a petting zoo.
2. A FULLY 100% SCRIPTED WORLD where nothing ever changes.
3. CLASSLESS SYSTEMS where you can master ALL the skills. You can be a Fighter/Mage/Thief/Archer/Summoner/Herbalist/etc./etc.
My computer beats me in Strip Poker, but doesn't stand a chance against my Kick Boxing! >: D 3
Instances
Too much emphasis on combat activities and not enough non combat activities
Add-ons (if you need add-ons to play a MMORPG then the developers weren't doing their job right)
LOL that's probably how it happened, too. Yes when ESO launched I watched closely and saw their template approach of tiny dungeons. Pretty sad.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit