But my point is that it's not just "botters" who you will be competing against.
For example, in Lineage 2, there was a time I had three accounts. My main, my buffer and one that sat in town to sell.
The times I didn't need a buffer I had two sellers in two different towns.
If I was to play Archeage "hardcore" I'd either have additional accounts or just buy the pots. And I'm not a botter. Nor a gold seller.
Having said that, I agree that such items shouldn't be in a cash shop. But whenever there is a free to play component you are going to have the selling of convenience. This borders on buying power but again, if there were no pots I would have additional accounts (if I was playing "hardcore") and take advantage of multiple crafters.
I was planning on running 2 accounts myself Sov, no biggie. I have 2 boxed many a game but never botted or sold equipment. I normally game 10 - 12 hours a day so I might be boreder line hardcore
Here is how I anticipate the gold sellers doing it,
1. make xx number of patron accounts as "handlers" have them buy LP pots
2. make F2P accounts, distribute LP pots from handlers. Have them mine , process ore, process trees as needed refueling them with LP pots as they hand off ingots lumber etc to handlers until the F2P bot is caught
3. Handlers distribute the ore/lumber etc to crafters or Ah bots to sell
LP pots do not border on buying power it rides ovrer the border roughshod and shits on it as it crosses
Hes a crafter so that means he harvests all of the resources himself, turns those resources into materials himself, and then turns the materials into items himself.
He knows he has limited labor points, but instead of specializing in one area of crafting he decides to do it all himself.
Hes not happy being a miner and mining ore to sell, or being a weaponsmith and buying ore from miners. He insists he should be able to do it all.
The problem isn't labor points, it's player mentality. When faced with a limited resource the player refused to adapt and instead insists its a faulty system because the limited resource prevents him from being self sufficient.
The same player will also disregard the market to a large extent because he's not really crafting to play the market, he'll craft to supply himself, and then complain that he doesn't have the LP to do everything else in the game like identify items or farm.
LP isn't designed specifically to slow down crafting or to force you into the cash shop, it's also designed to require the player to decide what he wants his character to be.
Every single person that has made this same tired complaint has said the exact same thing. They can't mine, craft, farm, etc. without needing to buy LP pots. Not one of them has said that it prevents you from specializing Ina field and then working with another player who specialized in something else. Each one has complained they can't be self sufficient and do it all alone.
The OP is the problem, not the LP system.
Care to point out where I complained once about the lack of LP please ? LP regen is fine just the way it is, I want this game to go nice and slow and am trying to prevent people buyintg their way to max crafting in every catagory in 4 days. You might try exercising some reading comprehension because you are 180 degrees off course
It is the unlimited LP that I am complaining about. That is what will enable assholes with unlimited credit cards to do precisely what you are trying to accuse me of . Only a bottter or a gold seller or a idiot troll would support selling LP potion in the cash shop. Not sure if you fit into one of those slots or are just have reading comprehension issues.
Originally posted by Utinni Another post about someone "winning" an MMO over you. This is like saying that person who pulled out in front of you speeding beat you to that stop light ahead. Yeah. Now you're both at that stop light, who won again?
another post about ignore those bots, nothing to see here move along, the gold dealers are your friends
ever try to mine ore in a small area with limited nodes where there are 15 bots mining ? Buy an Alpha pack and try to mine some ore and stone on the Alpha server. This game is bot city, gold dealers will rule the entire economy within the first 3 days. Good times indeed if you are a botter or a gold spammer, suck for the regular player
So you're mad that bots are ruining your $150 alpha experience? Is this where we are now, posting rants about alphas?
inb4 concept-art rants. oh wait...eqn already has that. We're all doomed.
Originally posted by Utinni Another post about someone "winning" an MMO over you. This is like saying that person who pulled out in front of you speeding beat you to that stop light ahead. Yeah. Now you're both at that stop light, who won again?
another post about ignore those bots, nothing to see here move along, the gold dealers are your friends
ever try to mine ore in a small area with limited nodes where there are 15 bots mining ? Buy an Alpha pack and try to mine some ore and stone on the Alpha server. This game is bot city, gold dealers will rule the entire economy within the first 3 days. Good times indeed if you are a botter or a gold spammer, suck for the regular player
So you're mad that bots are ruining your $150 alpha experience? Is this where we are now, posting rants about alphas?
inb4 concept-art rants. oh wait...eqn already has that. We're all doomed.
Lp is shared account wide so its not like each of your chars can specialize in individual crafts. For example if you want one char to make light armor and another heavy then your LP would be split. I think each char should have their own LP to create his/her own individual experience.
Originally posted by jitter77 Lp is shared account wide so its not like each of your chars can specialize in individual crafts. For example if you want one char to make light armor and another heavy then your LP would be split. I think each char should have their own LP to create his/her own individual experience.
I like the shared pool myself, it encourages you not to become a one man army. I also like the slow regen rate without any pots, makes you get out and enjoy other aspects of the game. I am finding I really enjoy PvP for example. Something I had not enjoyed since DAoC
Originally posted by Utinni Another post about someone "winning" an MMO over you. This is like saying that person who pulled out in front of you speeding beat you to that stop light ahead. Yeah. Now you're both at that stop light, who won again?
another post about ignore those bots, nothing to see here move along, the gold dealers are your friends
ever try to mine ore in a small area with limited nodes where there are 15 bots mining ? Buy an Alpha pack and try to mine some ore and stone on the Alpha server. This game is bot city, gold dealers will rule the entire economy within the first 3 days. Good times indeed if you are a botter or a gold spammer, suck for the regular player
So you're mad that bots are ruining your $150 alpha experience? Is this where we are now, posting rants about alphas?
inb4 concept-art rants. oh wait...eqn already has that. We're all doomed.
losing the point if right now we have bots problems in a alpha just think what will be during launch? is not hard to use your head you know sometimes you can be surprised with what you can come up with when using it otehr then holing your hair or earrings.
I don't consider bot that much of a problem for mining ores at least, I still can spend almost my whole Labor in farming for a hour and half as long i'm alone that is, what I'm really pissed is why we have bots? because we have fools who spend money on buying gold from then, and like I said I don't know what is more stupid, gold sellers in a alpha or people buying gold in a alpha, only thing to solve it is making the whole comunity not buy gold from then, but as long we have stupid people around we can't have nice things.
my take on the game right now after the 1.2 hit was the lag "fix" they did on combat skills (not fixed and make things worse), the lack of archeum to craft, for the hell of it it should stay like before crafting here is a big thing limiting ways to craft is the same as cuting your foot because you are feeling a itch or something, since we already ahve labor as a limiting resource for it, labor potions shouldn't be in game but is not a big deal, it recover 150 for 12 hours CD, so having premium(paying the sub) will be cheaper, plus the way you need to pay for land in use is annoying let peopel pay for gold that for himself was a good money sink to remove from the game (plus crafting),
also dungeons, since the change I don't see a damn reason to do dungeon runs, xp you can get pretty well doing things around, crafting gathering, all that gives a nice boost on xp, game is easy as hell to lvl and with the overachive on quests you don't have lack of xp, so tell me why I would run it? I didn't even run before and now even less, the changes on crafting also become more annoying since the change on recipes, i'm using gear I can't craft anymore I crafted for my use and the chance to crit crafting is a lot worse now too, the cost in labor raised too with would mean less items used to lvl but still you would need a hell of a number to craft and teh bundle seeds we can't have anymore unless you have around 15k on gathering(you get around 1-5 xp each gathering you do).
so what I mean is we have some serious problems to deal with the game with I consider even worse then bots, though I liked hte hold system, 5 person tags a bot and a justicar could just send him to jail and be done with it, but they had to remove saying people was abusing it.... yeah right.....
Originally posted by jitter77 Lp is shared account wide so its not like each of your chars can specialize in individual crafts. For example if you want one char to make light armor and another heavy then your LP would be split. I think each char should have their own LP to create his/her own individual experience.
I like the shared pool myself, it encourages you not to become a one man army. I also like the slow regen rate without any pots, makes you get out and enjoy other aspects of the game. I am finding I really enjoy PvP for example. Something I had not enjoyed since DAoC
yeah but even when the labor is shared,, remember the chars ahve a limt of specs, so you can spec a char in weapon and metal on grand master butthe other will be on master and lower(each rank have a limit on how much skills on that rank you can have), so if you want a char on weapon then metal and you amke another to have carpentry and leather you have to do it one at time, but with the f2P tag on it makes a really not much diference as long you let that char on it will regain some labor back, but the premium make labor recover fast and offline with a f2p do not. its like a way to force you to pay or just make a alt and save money but will take a little more to get there
Originally posted by Utinni Another post about someone "winning" an MMO over you. This is like saying that person who pulled out in front of you speeding beat you to that stop light ahead. Yeah. Now you're both at that stop light, who won again?
another post about ignore those bots, nothing to see here move along, the gold dealers are your friends
ever try to mine ore in a small area with limited nodes where there are 15 bots mining ? Buy an Alpha pack and try to mine some ore and stone on the Alpha server. This game is bot city, gold dealers will rule the entire economy within the first 3 days. Good times indeed if you are a botter or a gold spammer, suck for the regular player
So you're mad that bots are ruining your $150 alpha experience? Is this where we are now, posting rants about alphas?
inb4 concept-art rants. oh wait...eqn already has that. We're all doomed.
welcome to my ignore list
Considering your level of self-importance and the fact you claim it is possible to hit craft cap in 4 days with cash shop potions in complete opposition to known facts ( (12 hour global cooldown, the sheer amount of grind and the fact you are incapable of doing the most basic of algebraic operations to see how catastrophically off the mark you are, by as much as 90% for a patron ) I welcome you heartily to my ignore list.
Considering your level of self-importance and the fact you claim it is possible to hit craft cap in 4 days with cash shop potions in complete opposition to known facts ( (12 hour global cooldown, the sheer amount of grind and the fact you are incapable of doing the most basic of algebraic operations to see how catastrophically off the mark you are, by as much as 90% for a patron ) I welcome you heartily to my ignore list.
well if you are really ignoring me you will not read this but I feel like I need to educate you and others so. A botter or gold seller will make 6 characters on a free account so he can use 1 potions per character every 12 hours for a total of 12 potions per day on a shared labor pool for 12K extra labor. Add in the regular LP recover for a logged in account and you gave 14,480 exp being funneled into one craft skill. That is 57920 exp in a single skill in 4 days.
Maybe you can answer this if you read it. Why do you want overpowering items for sale in the cash shop. Are you a botter or maybe just a player with deep pockets who wants to buy his achievements in a game rather than have to play smart.
Now I worked out a plan yesterday and tested it on the Alpha where I can make 12 - 15 gold per hour for a 4 - 6 hour play period and still have 5000 labor when I log back on the next day. That was using the beta test reduced recovery numbers with a lvl 15 toon, so who are these labor pots supposed to benefit. Only one I can think of are the botters, gold sellers, and players who are stupid and greedy. Not exactly the kind of players I want ingame anyway. Do you ?
Considering your level of self-importance and the fact you claim it is possible to hit craft cap in 4 days with cash shop potions in complete opposition to known facts ( (12 hour global cooldown, the sheer amount of grind and the fact you are incapable of doing the most basic of algebraic operations to see how catastrophically off the mark you are, by as much as 90% for a patron ) I welcome you heartily to my ignore list.
well if you are really ignoring me you will not read this but I feel like I need to educate you and others so. A botter or gold seller will make 6 characters on a free account so he can use 1 potions per character every 12 hours for a total of 12 potions per day on a shared labor pool for 12K extra labor. Add in the regular LP recover for a logged in account and you gave 14,480 exp being funneled into one craft skill. That is 57920 exp in a single skill in 4 days.
Maybe you can answer this if you read it. Why do you want overpowering items for sale in the cash shop. Are you a botter or maybe just a player with deep pockets who wants to buy his achievements in a game rather than have to play smart.
Now I worked out a plan yesterday and tested it on the Alpha where I can make 12 - 15 gold per hour for a 4 - 6 hour play period and still have 5000 labor when I log back on the next day. That was using the beta test reduced recovery numbers with a lvl 15 toon, so who are these labor pots supposed to benefit. Only one I can think of are the botters, gold sellers, and players who are stupid and greedy. Not exactly the kind of players I want ingame anyway. Do you ?
The store-bought LP pots are of no interest to a goldseller, because they represent an extra layer of risk and give no benefit that can't be easily obtained via simply creating 100 disposable F2P accounts. Automatically creating F2P accounts can be scripted with ease by any serious goldseller.
Buying the Cash Shop credits to buy the LP pots means the goldseller has to make a purchase with a presumably stolen cc (unless you believe goldsellers spend their own money on these 1000's of botting accounts they run). Every transaction risks detection, investigation and banning.
Buying high volumes of these relatively expensive LP pots is going to immediately draw attention to any account, and it will be very easy for Trion to monitor these "unusual" buying patterns, increasing the risk of detection even further.
I really wouldn't worry about goldsellers when it comes to LP pots, the real concern is abuse by regular players who will stop at nothing to gain an advantage. But with those kinds of players, LP pots are only one of many things you need to worry about...
Comments
I was planning on running 2 accounts myself Sov, no biggie. I have 2 boxed many a game but never botted or sold equipment. I normally game 10 - 12 hours a day so I might be boreder line hardcore
Here is how I anticipate the gold sellers doing it,
1. make xx number of patron accounts as "handlers" have them buy LP pots
2. make F2P accounts, distribute LP pots from handlers. Have them mine , process ore, process trees as needed refueling them with LP pots as they hand off ingots lumber etc to handlers until the F2P bot is caught
3. Handlers distribute the ore/lumber etc to crafters or Ah bots to sell
LP pots do not border on buying power it rides ovrer the border roughshod and shits on it as it crosses
I miss DAoC
Care to point out where I complained once about the lack of LP please ? LP regen is fine just the way it is, I want this game to go nice and slow and am trying to prevent people buyintg their way to max crafting in every catagory in 4 days. You might try exercising some reading comprehension because you are 180 degrees off course
It is the unlimited LP that I am complaining about. That is what will enable assholes with unlimited credit cards to do precisely what you are trying to accuse me of . Only a bottter or a gold seller or a idiot troll would support selling LP potion in the cash shop. Not sure if you fit into one of those slots or are just have reading comprehension issues.
I miss DAoC
So you're mad that bots are ruining your $150 alpha experience? Is this where we are now, posting rants about alphas?
inb4 concept-art rants. oh wait...eqn already has that. We're all doomed.
welcome to my ignore list
I miss DAoC
I like the shared pool myself, it encourages you not to become a one man army. I also like the slow regen rate without any pots, makes you get out and enjoy other aspects of the game. I am finding I really enjoy PvP for example. Something I had not enjoyed since DAoC
I miss DAoC
losing the point if right now we have bots problems in a alpha just think what will be during launch? is not hard to use your head you know sometimes you can be surprised with what you can come up with when using it otehr then holing your hair or earrings.
I don't consider bot that much of a problem for mining ores at least, I still can spend almost my whole Labor in farming for a hour and half as long i'm alone that is, what I'm really pissed is why we have bots? because we have fools who spend money on buying gold from then, and like I said I don't know what is more stupid, gold sellers in a alpha or people buying gold in a alpha, only thing to solve it is making the whole comunity not buy gold from then, but as long we have stupid people around we can't have nice things.
my take on the game right now after the 1.2 hit was the lag "fix" they did on combat skills (not fixed and make things worse), the lack of archeum to craft, for the hell of it it should stay like before crafting here is a big thing limiting ways to craft is the same as cuting your foot because you are feeling a itch or something, since we already ahve labor as a limiting resource for it, labor potions shouldn't be in game but is not a big deal, it recover 150 for 12 hours CD, so having premium(paying the sub) will be cheaper, plus the way you need to pay for land in use is annoying let peopel pay for gold that for himself was a good money sink to remove from the game (plus crafting),
also dungeons, since the change I don't see a damn reason to do dungeon runs, xp you can get pretty well doing things around, crafting gathering, all that gives a nice boost on xp, game is easy as hell to lvl and with the overachive on quests you don't have lack of xp, so tell me why I would run it? I didn't even run before and now even less, the changes on crafting also become more annoying since the change on recipes, i'm using gear I can't craft anymore I crafted for my use and the chance to crit crafting is a lot worse now too, the cost in labor raised too with would mean less items used to lvl but still you would need a hell of a number to craft and teh bundle seeds we can't have anymore unless you have around 15k on gathering(you get around 1-5 xp each gathering you do).
so what I mean is we have some serious problems to deal with the game with I consider even worse then bots, though I liked hte hold system, 5 person tags a bot and a justicar could just send him to jail and be done with it, but they had to remove saying people was abusing it.... yeah right.....
yeah but even when the labor is shared,, remember the chars ahve a limt of specs, so you can spec a char in weapon and metal on grand master butthe other will be on master and lower(each rank have a limit on how much skills on that rank you can have), so if you want a char on weapon then metal and you amke another to have carpentry and leather you have to do it one at time, but with the f2P tag on it makes a really not much diference as long you let that char on it will regain some labor back, but the premium make labor recover fast and offline with a f2p do not. its like a way to force you to pay or just make a alt and save money but will take a little more to get there
Considering your level of self-importance and the fact you claim it is possible to hit craft cap in 4 days with cash shop potions in complete opposition to known facts ( (12 hour global cooldown, the sheer amount of grind and the fact you are incapable of doing the most basic of algebraic operations to see how catastrophically off the mark you are, by as much as 90% for a patron ) I welcome you heartily to my ignore list.
well if you are really ignoring me you will not read this but I feel like I need to educate you and others so. A botter or gold seller will make 6 characters on a free account so he can use 1 potions per character every 12 hours for a total of 12 potions per day on a shared labor pool for 12K extra labor. Add in the regular LP recover for a logged in account and you gave 14,480 exp being funneled into one craft skill. That is 57920 exp in a single skill in 4 days.
Maybe you can answer this if you read it. Why do you want overpowering items for sale in the cash shop. Are you a botter or maybe just a player with deep pockets who wants to buy his achievements in a game rather than have to play smart.
Now I worked out a plan yesterday and tested it on the Alpha where I can make 12 - 15 gold per hour for a 4 - 6 hour play period and still have 5000 labor when I log back on the next day. That was using the beta test reduced recovery numbers with a lvl 15 toon, so who are these labor pots supposed to benefit. Only one I can think of are the botters, gold sellers, and players who are stupid and greedy. Not exactly the kind of players I want ingame anyway. Do you ?
I miss DAoC
The store-bought LP pots are of no interest to a goldseller, because they represent an extra layer of risk and give no benefit that can't be easily obtained via simply creating 100 disposable F2P accounts. Automatically creating F2P accounts can be scripted with ease by any serious goldseller.
Buying the Cash Shop credits to buy the LP pots means the goldseller has to make a purchase with a presumably stolen cc (unless you believe goldsellers spend their own money on these 1000's of botting accounts they run). Every transaction risks detection, investigation and banning.
Buying high volumes of these relatively expensive LP pots is going to immediately draw attention to any account, and it will be very easy for Trion to monitor these "unusual" buying patterns, increasing the risk of detection even further.
I really wouldn't worry about goldsellers when it comes to LP pots, the real concern is abuse by regular players who will stop at nothing to gain an advantage. But with those kinds of players, LP pots are only one of many things you need to worry about...