If I'm doing a lot of the same thing over and over (i.e. end game, dailies, etc.) I prefer tab-targetting only because I can get stuff done with as little effort as I feel possible. Action-based games are fine for a change once-in-a-while but when it comes to time investment, I like to zombie out on stuff that I want to get done. Dont want to worry about having to dodge moves all the time etc.
For MMOs, tab-targetting for sure. Twitch combat always leads to having 4 to 6 skills (boring, no strategy) and is very dependant on latency, ie: peeps with a good ping will have a clear advantage over others + MMOs always have lag problems anyways, primetime high latency / lag spikes etc.
Also FPS style combat usually uses...1rst person view (derp) and I don't like the narrow field of view but that's personal preferrence.
Originally posted by Foomerang SWTOR has my favorite combat in an mmo. Good pacing, skills can synergize with each other in various ways, animations and sounds go very well together. Characters and movement had weight.
I agree here. The only thing is the darn quest hubs and generic non-story quests that tends to make the combat seem repetitive due to the amount of stuff you have to kill to get to the quest (sometimes), the actual quest mobs to kill, the bonus kills if you want more exp or mods, then killing your way out of the quest area (sometimes).
For that reason alone I started to just level via BGs and do only the main story quests because the combat is quite fun for PVP.
Yeah that's one of the reasons I stopped playing. All around a really solid mmo though.
Yeah that's what I'm doing too, class story quests + warzones and dungeons to keep up with XP.
I would've burned out on questing after 2 days had I tried to do them all.
Love the combat too, it's just like WoW minus the auto attack, plus auto facing. Without the auto facing this would be my ideal combat system for MMOs.
Subconsciously I always wanted action combat in my MMOs. If I live or die should depend on my skill as a player of avoiding damage and not the RNG. There's still an element of RNG but dying doesn't feel cheap anymore. The animations improve because of this too. I raise my shield: damage is blocked, etc. Also, nothing irks me more than homing projectiles.
Originally posted by Herzy Subconsciously I always wanted action combat in my MMOs. If I live or die should depend on my skill as a player of avoiding damage and not the RNG. There's still an element of RNG but dying doesn't feel cheap anymore.The animations improve because of this too. I raise my shield: damage is blocked, etc. Also, nothing irks me more than homing projectiles.
Homing Missiles is one of the few complaints I have with tab targeting
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
SWTOR has my favorite combat in an mmo. Good pacing, skills can synergize with each other in various ways, animations and sounds go very well together. Characters and movement had weight.
Originally posted by Herzy Subconsciously I always wanted action combat in my MMOs. If I live or die should depend on my skill as a player of avoiding damage and not the RNG. There's still an element of RNG but dying doesn't feel cheap anymore.The animations improve because of this too. I raise my shield: damage is blocked, etc. Also, nothing irks me more than homing projectiles.
Homing Missiles is one of the few complaints I have with tab targeting
I remember way back when moving out of the way of ranged shots just out of instinct or from playing SP FPS games, and always finding it intensely irritating that the things were locked onto me in mmo's. But I assume that is a pretty standard reaction to them.
I'm not really sure what I like the best. I change my mind daily. I really like action combat, but at the same time, I hate all of the running around and jumping that goes on in PVP. I really liked the PVE combat in ESO - it really kept me engaged in the fight no matter my role.
That being said, I really like the combat in FF14 too. I know some folks call it slow, but it seems very strategic to me. Using the right abilities at the right time kinda deal. You have to move also due to the AOE from mobs, so that's kinda fun. It does get a little repetitive and boring at times though.
Come to think of it... I remember liking the combat in Conan as well. So yeah.. I really don't know what I like or want. Seems to sum up the MMO genre as a whole huh? lol
I mean tab targeting is more mindless in my opinion. You just tab and spam buttons. At least turn based there's room for strategy and the AI can be tweeked to be more than a ball of HP to stand near.
Really preferring WildStar's right now. Very refreshing, the whole package. I also felt this way about Tera's but the game as a whole didn't hold me. However, tab-targeting brought me the most years of enjoyment (WoW) and while I'm bored with that type of system, mad respect for it as the original king (for me).
Originally posted by HerzySubconsciously I always wanted action combat in my MMOs. If I live or die should depend on my skill as a player of avoiding damage and not the RNG. There's still an element of RNG but dying doesn't feel cheap anymore.The animations improve because of this too. I raise my shield: damage is blocked, etc. Also, nothing irks me more than homing projectiles.
Homing Missiles is one of the few complaints I have with tab targeting
I remember way back when moving out of the way of ranged shots just out of instinct or from playing SP FPS games, and always finding it intensely irritating that the things were locked onto me in mmo's. But I assume that is a pretty standard reaction to them.
Yes RPGs are dice based. If you were playing D&D, and the DM rolls a hit on you; you can't just say "well I move out of the way." It is assumed you already tried to move out of the way, and failed. The graphic engine slows down the projectile so you can see it; not to be realistic.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon. In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Twitch combat is always my preference, but usually the games that do, everything else in the game sucks (looking at you TERA).
So I don't mind playing tab-targeting, it isn't my first choice though.
Action combat involves movement and cross-hair targetting, in games such as WS, ESO, TERA etc. However, it usually involves a number of melee classes and often involves telegraphing. It is generally more static than FPS with dodges only required when a big flashing warning tells you. It also usually involves a rotation based on key-assigned skills.
We've all played FPS/ TPS games and I think there is quite a clear difference in the fluidity of the combat. Where there are key-assigned skills they tend to be support and reactionary rather than a clear rotation. Mobs generally have better AI and the targeting is more involved than swinging in their general vicinity. There is usually some interaction with the environment which can be used as cover.
For obvious reasons FPS is much harder to incorporate into an mmo which is why we have seen few examples and only recently.
I would not put WS and ESO in the action combat section. They're both hybrid for a variety of reasons. No manual defenses (i.e. no right click to block attacks or iframe dodges). Both have a tab targeting system in the background that allow you to literally tab between enemies. And the only game that really uses telegraphing extensively is Wildstar and it's hideous and requires no skill at all. GW2 is also clearly a hybrid. They may have actiony elements, but they are not true action combat.
True action combat games like TERA and Vindictus have manual player controlled defenses instead of relying on gear stats. Aiming actually matters because there is literally no way to tab target lock onto a target (and you can easily miss because skills don't have a massive AoE range like in Wildstar but often much smaller, more realistic hitboxes). Mobs for the most part don't have big red circles showing you where they will hit - instead you have to watch their animations to figure out the tells and where the skill will hit so you can find a safe spot/learn proper timing to dodge/block. This also goes for other players - there are no mods telling you what skills they are casting or what class they are - you have to watch their animations to figure out who they are and what they're doing. Combat involves a wide variety of skills and not just a 6 skill "limited action set" and is often fast paced, requiring skillful usage of combos, the ability to cancel skills mid animation and change course instead of relying on a single rotation due to the changing nature of combat, and much more. In short action combat is more based on player skill and is much more active, putting the outcome in the hands of the player and not the computer.
I like the hybrid style in GW2, ESO, and WildStar.
I like the action combat of Neverwinter and TERA.
It all depends on how it's all designed. Fluidity, responsiveness, animations, etc.
Lately though, I've been leaning towards pure action and hybrid combat systems. But I in no way find tab-targeting unappealing.
I prefer action combat but I will agree on your classification of those games. Too many people played GW2, ESO, or Wildstar and think that is action combat, then go on to say how they dislike it. I, too, dislike the combat in those games. It wasn't done well for a variety of reasons. Too few skills, too spammy, not enough strategy, skill, and decision making required in combat, abilities are too huge and easy to hit with as well as being boring and uncreative, too much dodging along with casting on the move means my choices mean nothing since I can easily walk out of an enemy AoE while simultaneously casting the fireblast that will kill him (also the constant run and gun with tons of massive ugly telegraphed AoEs just makes the entire game feel weightless and messy), if my enemy casts a CC on me there are no skillful ways to prevent it from hitting me, etc. I could go on.
Twitch combat is always my preference, but usually the games that do, everything else in the game sucks (looking at you TERA).
So I don't mind playing tab-targeting, it isn't my first choice though.
Action combat involves movement and cross-hair targetting, in games such as WS, ESO, TERA etc. However, it usually involves a number of melee classes and often involves telegraphing. It is generally more static than FPS with dodges only required when a big flashing warning tells you. It also usually involves a rotation based on key-assigned skills.
We've all played FPS/ TPS games and I think there is quite a clear difference in the fluidity of the combat. Where there are key-assigned skills they tend to be support and reactionary rather than a clear rotation. Mobs generally have better AI and the targeting is more involved than swinging in their general vicinity. There is usually some interaction with the environment which can be used as cover.
For obvious reasons FPS is much harder to incorporate into an mmo which is why we have seen few examples and only recently.
I would not put WS and ESO in the action combat section. They're both hybrid for a variety of reasons. No manual defenses (i.e. no right click to block attacks or iframe dodges). Both have a tab targeting system in the background that allow you to literally tab between enemies. And the only game that really uses telegraphing extensively is Wildstar and it's hideous and requires no skill at all. GW2 is also clearly a hybrid. They may have actiony elements, but they are not true action combat.
True action combat games like TERA and Vindictus have manual player controlled defenses instead of relying on gear stats. Aiming actually matters because there is literally no way to tab target lock onto a target (and you can easily miss because skills don't have a massive AoE range like in Wildstar but often much smaller, more realistic hitboxes). Mobs for the most part don't have big red circles showing you where they will hit - instead you have to watch their animations to figure out the tells and where the skill will hit so you can find a safe spot/learn proper timing to dodge/block. This also goes for other players - there are no mods telling you what skills they are casting or what class they are - you have to watch their animations to figure out who they are and what they're doing. Combat involves a wide variety of skills and not just a 6 skill "limited action set" and is often fast paced, requiring skillful usage of combos, the ability to cancel skills mid animation and change course instead of relying on a single rotation due to the changing nature of combat, and much more. In short action combat is more based on player skill and is much more active, putting the outcome in the hands of the player and not the computer.
Please tell me what happens if you right click in ESO.. because in my book that is called "to block", and if you ask me ESO has a full action combat system.
I like Action and Shooter style the most, I dont mind tab targeting but its starting to feel old and boring. Tab targeting was ok back in the days when computer tech was not as advanced but mmos should now be able to have combat like single player action games with ease, and the korean developers seem to be the only ones who realize this mostly. Im looking forward to Black Desert and Destiny. The only tab target game I can stand these days is FFXIV and thats only because it has native gamepad support which makes the experience better for me personally.
I prefer turn-based, which is what I chose. I have no issues with tab-target either. It's a close runner-up. I can do either for extended periods of time, but action/fps is short-term only for me. I play and enjoy games with action/fps but only in short bursts. I can't play those long-term. I play MMORPGs to relax and unwind and action/fps doesn't lend itself to that for me.
Originally posted by Herzy Subconsciously I always wanted action combat in my MMOs. If I live or die should depend on my skill as a player of avoiding damage and not the RNG. There's still an element of RNG but dying doesn't feel cheap anymore.The animations improve because of this too. I raise my shield: damage is blocked, etc. Also, nothing irks me more than homing projectiles.
Homing Missiles is one of the few complaints I have with tab targeting
That's one of the best points of GW2 combat. You can target, but ranged attacks aren't homing and can be dodged.
While that is good and I liked it (for awhile) in GW2, it is still player skill, not character skill. If a tab target MMO could implement the dodge skill for missiles as well as melee, there would not be a problem. For some reason, they do not
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
I enjoyed Bloodline Champions targeting system, everything was a skill shot. It felt like I was playing Quake again, I loved it. It was a really under rated game IMO.
Comments
For MMOs, tab-targetting for sure. Twitch combat always leads to having 4 to 6 skills (boring, no strategy) and is very dependant on latency, ie: peeps with a good ping will have a clear advantage over others + MMOs always have lag problems anyways, primetime high latency / lag spikes etc.
Also FPS style combat usually uses...1rst person view (derp) and I don't like the narrow field of view but that's personal preferrence.
Yeah that's what I'm doing too, class story quests + warzones and dungeons to keep up with XP.
I would've burned out on questing after 2 days had I tried to do them all.
Love the combat too, it's just like WoW minus the auto attack, plus auto facing. Without the auto facing this would be my ideal combat system for MMOs.
I love three of them in the following order:
If I live or die should depend on my skill as a player of avoiding damage and not the RNG. There's still an element of RNG but dying doesn't feel cheap anymore.
The animations improve because of this too. I raise my shield: damage is blocked, etc.
Also, nothing irks me more than homing projectiles.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Yes totally agree with you.
I remember way back when moving out of the way of ranged shots just out of instinct or from playing SP FPS games, and always finding it intensely irritating that the things were locked onto me in mmo's. But I assume that is a pretty standard reaction to them.
I'm not really sure what I like the best. I change my mind daily. I really like action combat, but at the same time, I hate all of the running around and jumping that goes on in PVP. I really liked the PVE combat in ESO - it really kept me engaged in the fight no matter my role.
That being said, I really like the combat in FF14 too. I know some folks call it slow, but it seems very strategic to me. Using the right abilities at the right time kinda deal. You have to move also due to the AOE from mobs, so that's kinda fun. It does get a little repetitive and boring at times though.
Come to think of it... I remember liking the combat in Conan as well. So yeah.. I really don't know what I like or want. Seems to sum up the MMO genre as a whole huh? lol
I picked turn based just cuz it's different.
I mean tab targeting is more mindless in my opinion. You just tab and spam buttons. At least turn based there's room for strategy and the AI can be tweeked to be more than a ball of HP to stand near.
a yo ho ho
WildStar.
Combat's intense, FPS-style. The artwork's pretty creative and the animation's smooth.
And when I just need a quick session, I plug-in the PS3 for XCOM, which is turn-based strategy, hehe.
Wildstar FPS??? That's news to me.
Yes RPGs are dice based. If you were playing D&D, and the DM rolls a hit on you; you can't just say "well I move out of the way." It is assumed you already tried to move out of the way, and failed. The graphic engine slows down the projectile so you can see it; not to be realistic.
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.
In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Depends on the game, honestly.
I like the tab-targeting in Rift, SWTOR.
I like the hybrid style in GW2, ESO, and WildStar.
I like the action combat of Neverwinter and TERA.
It all depends on how it's all designed. Fluidity, responsiveness, animations, etc.
Lately though, I've been leaning towards pure action and hybrid combat systems. But I in no way find tab-targeting unappealing.
You should check out some combat video's of Black Desert. The combat looks just like dark souls combat. Key combo's to execute spells or attacks.
I like all combat types. But action combat the most if done well.
I would not put WS and ESO in the action combat section. They're both hybrid for a variety of reasons. No manual defenses (i.e. no right click to block attacks or iframe dodges). Both have a tab targeting system in the background that allow you to literally tab between enemies. And the only game that really uses telegraphing extensively is Wildstar and it's hideous and requires no skill at all. GW2 is also clearly a hybrid. They may have actiony elements, but they are not true action combat.
True action combat games like TERA and Vindictus have manual player controlled defenses instead of relying on gear stats. Aiming actually matters because there is literally no way to tab target lock onto a target (and you can easily miss because skills don't have a massive AoE range like in Wildstar but often much smaller, more realistic hitboxes). Mobs for the most part don't have big red circles showing you where they will hit - instead you have to watch their animations to figure out the tells and where the skill will hit so you can find a safe spot/learn proper timing to dodge/block. This also goes for other players - there are no mods telling you what skills they are casting or what class they are - you have to watch their animations to figure out who they are and what they're doing. Combat involves a wide variety of skills and not just a 6 skill "limited action set" and is often fast paced, requiring skillful usage of combos, the ability to cancel skills mid animation and change course instead of relying on a single rotation due to the changing nature of combat, and much more. In short action combat is more based on player skill and is much more active, putting the outcome in the hands of the player and not the computer.
I prefer action combat but I will agree on your classification of those games. Too many people played GW2, ESO, or Wildstar and think that is action combat, then go on to say how they dislike it. I, too, dislike the combat in those games. It wasn't done well for a variety of reasons. Too few skills, too spammy, not enough strategy, skill, and decision making required in combat, abilities are too huge and easy to hit with as well as being boring and uncreative, too much dodging along with casting on the move means my choices mean nothing since I can easily walk out of an enemy AoE while simultaneously casting the fireblast that will kill him (also the constant run and gun with tons of massive ugly telegraphed AoEs just makes the entire game feel weightless and messy), if my enemy casts a CC on me there are no skillful ways to prevent it from hitting me, etc. I could go on.
Please tell me what happens if you right click in ESO.. because in my book that is called "to block", and if you ask me ESO has a full action combat system.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR