Originally posted by Neobloodline3d I'd rather face an enemy squarely and fight like men to the end. Cowards stab in the back or bring buddies to a one on one fight. One of the reasons Eve is such a craptacular game is because people melt down into the lowest form of play, there's no honor or sport for the most part. All the imagination the zit faced neckbearded bullies can muster is sitting in front of a gate with a pack of bully buddies and wring their hands together and giggle when someone warps a taxi in front of them. I really can't imagine what kind of man sits there and thinks of that as entertaining. That's exactly the definition of troll.
lol. I find this "bushido" style of gamer hilarious. We know what people are like and what they will do to get their kicks.
Who is the troll? The guy who rolled on a pvp server so he could get some ganks in while leveling or when there wasn't much else to do at the time. Or is it the guy who rolls on a pvp server expecting everyone to follow his honor code. Whining each and everytime he gets ganked on a pvp server or in a open world pvp game.
We are playing games, not simulating feudal japan.
is not really bushido,
its just tell us how the person really is, and how trust worth is teh person too, I find people who do random ganks for no reason, keep camping lower lvls people, scams like that means more they can't be trusted to do anything if they are not afraid of you for some reason, and they don't do it on RL for fear to break the law or get a nice punch in the face, since in a game chance for then have anything against then is pretty slim (unless you know him in RL and can go at his home to punch him) only chance is to shut him down heavily with your guild and all other people ban then on doing things in game, but nowadays is pretty easy to lvl another char or just pay for a name change....
Trolling is more being obnoxious towards other people to get a response, that in turn is continued by the person trolling. What you ask about here is more grieving and is still not a welcomed form of behavior in gaming.
Originally posted by Betaguy Corpse camping has been around for 20+ years it is not trolling but is considered grieving and can be reported.
tell me what game nowadays have corpse running?
WoW, EQ, EQ2, Rift, Probably a few others.
i'm asking for more new games the ones you mention are old, and rift I don't remember doing corpse runs
Since when has "victim must travel x distance" been any part of corpse camping. If it is, there was no corpse camping in UO ever, because the campers would ebolt their targets back to ghostville the second they rezzed. Travel wasn't even an option.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Only camping is pure trolling, though ganking someone who stands zero chance of winning is petty and pointless.
I also consider it a dealbreaker. I don't put money into games with open world pvp unless it's restricted to specific areas I can choose to enter or not without consequences to my gameplay.
But it's fine for people who enjoy that sort of game or who don't mind it. Everyone who does mind it needs to stop hating on the gankers and campers and stop giving money to the devs who consider that sort of thing content. That's the bottom line. Their bottom line. If you don't like open world pvp games, stop bloody buying them!
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
I think it can be both. Since there is no real counter (such as "police" or "guards") in most games, it really is just a form of committing digital murder without consequences. As such it just becomes chaos and in most cases breaks "emersion". It would make sense if there was a real reason to do it and if there could be real consequences if caught doing such.
All depends on motivation. Ganking a miner to steal his ore is not trolling. If he's putting himself in position to be ganked it's his fault.
On the other hand ganking him just to blow up his ship for the LOLs seems like more a form of trolling. People like that are often trying to get a reaction and make people mad the same way forum trolls do.
It really depends on the player's intentions and motivations which you really have no way of knowing unless they explicitly tell you. It could be RP reasons, competition for PVE content or inciting the other faction to get a skirmish going.
If I made a world pvp game I would give people the option to learn spells that got them out of ganking and camping situations. Being ganked and camped is to frustrating to the "victim" and ruins their enjoyment of the game play. They would not feel as harassed if they had a way out of their predicament. Like learn a spell that turns you into a dire wolf for 20 seconds and you have the option to mall your enemies or run away to a safe zone. Quests and mob drops can play a big part of this frustration. If you cannot advance your level or lore or achievement because other players are in the way it's no longer worth playing. Themeparks are bad for world pvp. Being startled out of a peaceful reverie when you just wanted to log in, drink a coffee, and relax looking at a cyber sunset over ocean waves next to a rich forest sucks. Some type of spell you could cast or a crow you could launch that would set off a quiet ding if someone was in your area might alleviate some of that stress (not dots on a mini map stupid way to note an approacher).
I consider it a reason to leave a game and never look back and/or never try the game if I know beforehand that it is a problem. There are too many entertainment options available out there for me... rather than for me to be some jerk's form of entertainment.
PvP server/game is a choice you make, knowing that you'll likely get ganked some. (By gank I mean killed by a higher-level, more powerful player with no possible chance of survival, just for their entertainment.) But isn't the extra stress and paranoia part of the fun? Resource collection is way more interesting if you have to do it in a hostile place with the threat of surprise combat, and more satisfying to successfully get out with useful materials.
Personally I level in PvP games/servers with pen and paper next to me, and I write down the names of everyone who ganks/camps me, with the intention of hunting down particularly rude players when I'm stronger. Another fun strategy if you have a top-level character is to log them out where you're resource gathering with your alt. If someone ganks your alt, switch characters and stomp them. Or even better, travel with a more powerful escort/friend. Wait, that requires grouping...I forgot this is 2014.
I get that many people don't like the surprise and inconvenient death - that's what PvE servers are for.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own. -- Herman Melville
Ganking people who can't defend themselves is not trolling, it is just bad game design.
Camping corpses or spots where noobs must go for hours is another matter then killing someone flagged as an opponent, then you are trying to sabotage the fun for others with intent, not just killing someone the game tell you is an enemy.
But you shouldn't be able to find people you can kill with zero percentage of failing, there is no risk and that takes out the best part of PvP. That is not the players but the games fault, mechanics designed for PvE should not be used in a PvP game.
Ganking people who can't defend themselves is not trolling, it is just bad game design.
Camping corpses or spots where noobs must go for hours is another matter then killing someone flagged as an opponent, then you are trying to sabotage the fun for others with intent, not just killing someone the game tell you is an enemy.
But you shouldn't be able to find people you can kill with zero percentage of failing, there is no risk and that takes out the best part of PvP. That is not the players but the games fault, mechanics designed for PvE should not be used in a PvP game.
Do you consider Open World Ganking (and or) Camping , to be a form of trolling?
In MMOs with Open World Player vs Player combat systems, would ganking players that may be doing other task, or even camping some player for any given reason be a form of trolling to you?
whoever conciders being killed in an open pvp world trolling, should not play in an open pvp world.
of cors, corpse camping is griefing - and with the masses of examples/games, there are alot of other ways to grief.
anyway, griefing is usualy within gamemechanics, and therefor, who knows if the devs didn't want it that way?
for me, i usualy don't attack, unless provoced. but having the possibility to do so, makes it more fun - and sometimes... it actually makes sense....
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Nothing wrong with ganking/jumping/sneak attracting in an open world pvp scenario - the name says it all . Along lines of what loke said, a game that is designed for pve and pvp and cannot seperate the 2 is poor game design. Griefing has got nothing to do with good gameplay, emergent or otherwise it's just poor control of malicious behaviour and used to/should have no place in gaming.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Do you consider Open World Ganking (and or) Camping , to be a form of trolling?
In MMOs with Open World Player vs Player combat systems, would ganking players that may be doing other task, or even camping some player for any given reason be a form of trolling to you?
whoever conciders being killed in an open pvp world trolling, should not play in an open pvp world.
of cors, corpse camping is griefing - and with the masses of examples/games, there are alot of other ways to grief.
anyway, griefing is usualy within gamemechanics, and therefor, who knows if the devs didn't want it that way?
for me, i usualy don't attack, unless provoced. but having the possibility to do so, makes it more fun - and sometimes... it actually makes sense....
There's a difference between serial campers/gankers and typical FFA PVP.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
WoW, EQ, EQ2, Rift, Probably a few others.
is not really bushido,
its just tell us how the person really is, and how trust worth is teh person too, I find people who do random ganks for no reason, keep camping lower lvls people, scams like that means more they can't be trusted to do anything if they are not afraid of you for some reason, and they don't do it on RL for fear to break the law or get a nice punch in the face, since in a game chance for then have anything against then is pretty slim (unless you know him in RL and can go at his home to punch him) only chance is to shut him down heavily with your guild and all other people ban then on doing things in game, but nowadays is pretty easy to lvl another char or just pay for a name change....
i'm asking for more new games the ones you mention are old, and rift I don't remember doing corpse runs
I thnk the word your looking for is called griefing. Trolling is a different thing....
I do not consider either greifing, one would be part of the game (if its allowed) and the other is someone that can not hang with the big boys.
Since when has "victim must travel x distance" been any part of corpse camping. If it is, there was no corpse camping in UO ever, because the campers would ebolt their targets back to ghostville the second they rezzed. Travel wasn't even an option.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Ganking, no.
Spawn camping's just for players with small e-peens. They suck at real PvP so they pick on newbies to up their score.
Only camping is pure trolling, though ganking someone who stands zero chance of winning is petty and pointless.
I also consider it a dealbreaker. I don't put money into games with open world pvp unless it's restricted to specific areas I can choose to enter or not without consequences to my gameplay.
But it's fine for people who enjoy that sort of game or who don't mind it. Everyone who does mind it needs to stop hating on the gankers and campers and stop giving money to the devs who consider that sort of thing content. That's the bottom line. Their bottom line. If you don't like open world pvp games, stop bloody buying them!
I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy, accompanied by an educational system which would be oriented toward social goals.
~Albert Einstein
I think it can be both. Since there is no real counter (such as "police" or "guards") in most games, it really is just a form of committing digital murder without consequences. As such it just becomes chaos and in most cases breaks "emersion". It would make sense if there was a real reason to do it and if there could be real consequences if caught doing such.
Let's party like it is 1863!
All depends on motivation. Ganking a miner to steal his ore is not trolling. If he's putting himself in position to be ganked it's his fault.
On the other hand ganking him just to blow up his ship for the LOLs seems like more a form of trolling. People like that are often trying to get a reaction and make people mad the same way forum trolls do.
It's bad design by devs.
If I made a world pvp game I would give people the option to learn spells that got them out of ganking and camping situations. Being ganked and camped is to frustrating to the "victim" and ruins their enjoyment of the game play. They would not feel as harassed if they had a way out of their predicament. Like learn a spell that turns you into a dire wolf for 20 seconds and you have the option to mall your enemies or run away to a safe zone. Quests and mob drops can play a big part of this frustration. If you cannot advance your level or lore or achievement because other players are in the way it's no longer worth playing. Themeparks are bad for world pvp. Being startled out of a peaceful reverie when you just wanted to log in, drink a coffee, and relax looking at a cyber sunset over ocean waves next to a rich forest sucks. Some type of spell you could cast or a crow you could launch that would set off a quiet ding if someone was in your area might alleviate some of that stress (not dots on a mini map stupid way to note an approacher).
In a nut shell games need to empower the victims.
No. It's not trying to avoid such a death. Stay off the main road.
I do, however, consider the lack-luster Battleground-PvP to be Developer trolling.
I'd disagree simply because the endgame is essentially the same. Fishing for a negative reaction.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
PvP server/game is a choice you make, knowing that you'll likely get ganked some. (By gank I mean killed by a higher-level, more powerful player with no possible chance of survival, just for their entertainment.) But isn't the extra stress and paranoia part of the fun? Resource collection is way more interesting if you have to do it in a hostile place with the threat of surprise combat, and more satisfying to successfully get out with useful materials.
Personally I level in PvP games/servers with pen and paper next to me, and I write down the names of everyone who ganks/camps me, with the intention of hunting down particularly rude players when I'm stronger. Another fun strategy if you have a top-level character is to log them out where you're resource gathering with your alt. If someone ganks your alt, switch characters and stomp them. Or even better, travel with a more powerful escort/friend. Wait, that requires grouping...I forgot this is 2014.
I get that many people don't like the surprise and inconvenient death - that's what PvE servers are for.
In a carebear themepark without territory control: yes - both
In a PvP-oriented game where you fight for territory: no, all goes
---
Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.
-- Herman Melville
Ganking people who can't defend themselves is not trolling, it is just bad game design.
Camping corpses or spots where noobs must go for hours is another matter then killing someone flagged as an opponent, then you are trying to sabotage the fun for others with intent, not just killing someone the game tell you is an enemy.
But you shouldn't be able to find people you can kill with zero percentage of failing, there is no risk and that takes out the best part of PvP. That is not the players but the games fault, mechanics designed for PvE should not be used in a PvP game.
Fully agreed.
Nothing to add here.
whoever conciders being killed in an open pvp world trolling, should not play in an open pvp world.
of cors, corpse camping is griefing - and with the masses of examples/games, there are alot of other ways to grief.
anyway, griefing is usualy within gamemechanics, and therefor, who knows if the devs didn't want it that way?
for me, i usualy don't attack, unless provoced. but having the possibility to do so, makes it more fun - and sometimes... it actually makes sense....
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
There's a difference between serial campers/gankers and typical FFA PVP.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson