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Teso and GW2 vs AA
Talketzanto
Member UncommonPosts: 205
GW2 good pvp but no progression so not an mmo IMO......TESO good pvp if you like 50v50 (zerging gets boring fast)...also no real point in taking keeps other then a few small buffs.....
Both of these games have soft targeting but how hard is it to point your cursor at someone and attack? I dont think it adds skill to be honest....
AA I enjoy because pvp can be large scale or small scale....I like that its more then just pvp (you can actually take peoples trade packs and make money off it)....
I also enjoy the diversity in class makeup....More then most MMOs Ive played
One last thing Ive noticed is the skill lvl seems to be high in pvp with AA, at least for me (Ive killed most people 15+ lvls then me) which again in most games usually wont happen often
just my 2 cents
BTW this was suppose to be a response to a thread (I accidently made a new thread) SORRY
Comments
That being said, ESOs Cyrodiil is something special. I've went from "just another battle ground" (preplay), to this is how all game worlds should be (4 months in). Couple that with the most visceral mmorpg combat I've had the pleasure to experience, ESO is really hard to compete with.
OP you are confused on what an MMO is?
edit: Sorry, no disrespect.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I should of said AAA mmo...because mmo itself could mean farmville......There are certain things that AAA mmo's should provide and progression is one of them (aesthetic does not count imo)
so you discard GW2 and ESOs pvp because of the soft targetting and have no skill, but then praise AAs pvp for different reasons? AA pvp is traditional tab target, there is no skill involved there either. Just sayin.... Comparing games and saying X game has a flaw and then praise Y game which has the same flaw is just silly.
EDIT: all 3 games you mentioned are AAA mmos, you dont need WoW progression to be considered a AAA mmo.
Almost every game in existence has progression.. so we would need some other method of setting mmos apart..
Agreed. Just because it is different doesn't mean it's not an AAA MMO. It still an AAA game, and it still is massively multiplayer online. The game still has progression, but not in the way a lot of people want.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
There cannot be zerging in ESO! Numerous posters on here promised use ESO was superior because there was no zerging. You must be mistaken.
Explain to me how there is no progression in Guild Wars 2?
ESO and GW2 combat is superior to AA. It takes no skill whatsoever to Tab Target. None.
There is no progression in gw2. They tried with orizontal progression, failed. They tried with vertical progression, failed. GW2 is a great game; but there is no progression and no endgame.
Gw2 combat doesn't require more skill then AA's combat. One is action combat the other is tab target. If you are bad you are going to lose, no matter the format.
Theyre all games that fall short in many aspects. even combining all three with the missing portions of the others still wouldnt make a 'perfect' MMO.
AA wins because it is pure free to download then free to play. Sure its extremely limited underthose conditions but you can do everything everyone else can it just takes longer. Which used to be the goal of MMOs (to actually kills some time) GW2 is buy to play and a more complete game. A little grindy and a game where you will want to play multiple alts. (AA a SINGLE toon can max out every skill in the game so no real need for alts in the grand scheme). ESO a game that defied logic and held its subscription stance and that is why it is a distant third in this discussion. Premium box price as well as a premium sub price should really deliver much more than ESO does. it also doesnt have any more long term playability than the other two. Unless you want to grind out repeatable trash quests and get 'veteran' ranks.
1) Progression has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not something is an MMO.
2) Pressing TAB and locking onto a target permanently takes more skill?
3) While AA does offer the ability to mix all of the classes, let's be honest here. You can do it, but it doesnt work well in a lot of cases. If you really want to be effective you are still pretty much forced into certain builds because certain classes simply offer nothing additional to other classes and there is no synergy between the skills. SO sure, you can feel unique by avoiding those builds, but youre also going to be much weaker than someone who uses the right combinations to add bonuses to skills of classes that synergize.
The combat is much different in GW2 though. AA is almost like WoWs where you feel flatfooted. GW2, WS, and even TSW have like an extra dimension to combat from the dodging and/or rolling. To me it is much more in depth and imho more challenging in both PvP and PvE.
edit: I think we all feel a bit different about challenging combat. To me using tab target isn't really anymore difficult than non-tab target. Others might find that the hard part of the game I guess. Mine is the jumping, rolling, dodging, aiming and etc. that makes it challenging. GW2 has those elements.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I just said that you can call anything an MMO didn't I? Therefore to ME I think it needs some sort of progression otherwise its no different the a 1st person shooter such as COD (Which has more progression then GW2 now lol)
Are you saying that playing in 3rd person makes it an MMO? just because you can play online does not mean it should fall into that catagory anymore (its not 10 years ago when there were 3 games online)
I never once said that tab targeting took more skill, I said that I don't think soft targeting takes any MORE skill....its not like you have to have pinpoint accuracy to hit someone (You just have to be in the area of someone)...
On your last note ive seen many people with (odd) builds that rocked in pvp....Just because people throw around "darkrunner" and "primeval" does not mean there isn't counters to those classes. Those are just the cookie cutter classes that people think are ingenious.
I fought plenty of these "OP" classes that were much higher level then me and I won. So either Im far superior skill wise, or that bullshit about certain classes being viable is bullshit...
You can probably call it what "you" want. I think the rest of us (at least me) are going by the actual definition of what an mmo is, and not because it fails to apply to one of your criteria. MMO Definition.
I'm not sure where you are getting your information that you can't progress in GW2. What are you defining progression as? Raids for gear?
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Did you read that definition? I think most can agree its far to broad a statement nowadays.
Well tell me, how does GW2 progress? How would one make progression in the game?
Last I checked, when I logged on after not playing for a year I was at the same progression everyone else was...which was stationary! And please don't say "arena" progression..please don't
pvp=/=combat
Much more goes into good "pvp" than the combat system. I think this is what OP is touching on.
WoW has pvp and Wushu has pvp. Both have tab target combat systems. Wpvp, battlegorunds, and arena makes up WoW's tab target pvp system. Kidnapping, cart robbing, script stealing, guild wars, school wars, bounties and lots of other things make up Wushu's tab target pvp system.
Even though AA doesn't have a block button
for combat, I'm willing to give it a try once it launches because of the "pvp" I've heard about.
He's from the "all progression is stat progression" crowd, which is fundamentally absurd and closed minded.
There is another form of progression, and it's a beautiful form when done well. Combining aesthetics (which Guild Wars 2 accomplished) with an ever-expanding arsenal of sidegrade skills and available playstyles (which it did not), is arguably the best way to stimulate sandbox MMO gameplay while keeping gameplay interesting and fair.
We've seen this form of progression in games that function similarly to MMOs (such as Guild Wars 1), and it has been a large part of their success.
Oh, but wait, it isn't progression because your character isn't gaining +100 Strength and +35 Dexterity when they obtain their Magical Sword of Bullshit.
Yes I read it. GW2 is covered in it the definition.
You are being a bit dramatic too. You are trying to cover what is an obvious mistake on your part. GW2 is an MMO period.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Yea sorry Ide rather have +100 strength armor that is also "better looking then some other armor", over armor that is ONLY better looking then some others....Its so easy for these companies to make nice looking things without any thought about what stats to apply to them and not have to worry about balance. Your just making their jobs much easier and you bought into the crap they are putting out now.
PS: If you wanna log on once every few months then sure its best to not have people progression because you never fall behind which should not be the case
To me however AA is a piece of shit !
old school skill system that doesn't work unless you select a target, really ? WTF !!!
I could NOT uninstall fast enough, and they expect people to actually pay for that crap ?!
I'd rather play ESO than AA and I don't like ESO either but damn even ESO understood that times have changed.
DEVS need to learn from GW2, say what you want about it but it is a successful game for a good reason PERIOD.
No doubt about that sentence! I am a sucker and usually get all "MMO"s that release, but I for sure love the action combat more but always adjust! I'm sure you have played something like GW2 or WS, and then switched to something like WoW. I always try and roll the first few fights!
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Yes, I'm sorry I'd prefer to have a good game that is replayable on its own merits and changes based on a flexible character building system than a bad one that utilizes the same cliche, boring stat-based gear system that's been outdated for a decade.
But I'm just making their jobs much easier by buying into the crap they are putting out now. God forbid I enjoy the product I've received. God forbid.
Haha
In some games I guess it's nice for the game to "tell" me or inform me that I have progressed by showing me some graph, pie chart, or progress bar. However, in some games I have my own personal meter for progression that I can simply tell by judging on how well I handle and survive (or not) situations in PVP for example.
I'm the type of PVP'er who doesn't prefer better gear or better stats in order to beat enemy players. I simply prefer being on even footing with gear and stats and just simply winning by outsmarting/playing better. That's how I judge my progression. GW2, for me, takes away artificial PVP skill crutches that are often seen in other games in the form of gear and allows me to judge my personal skill progression through my actions. In other words, if my roaming group kills another roaming group in WvW, I know it wasn't because of gear or levels.
I can understand how a PVE'er can get bent out out of shape about GW2 not having raids, however I don't feel bad for those players. Why? Because GW2 wasn't intended for those players. It was intended for players like me who like action combat to where skill isn't trumped by gear which is just about every other MMO out there. I'm glad there is at least ONE MMO that caters to me and others like me.
"If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor
Stat based gear is out dated and a decade old? LoL that was good stuff man. Lets all just play a game where there is 0 progression and we are all equal! Peace and love :P