Giving players that sub to a game more LP is not P2W. Somewhere along the way the term has been hijacked to mean that if you have to pay any money at all to play a game it's P2W. That's rubbish.
P2W means that people who have unlimited amounts of money can get huge edges in game. In AA that seems to be limited to purchasing LP pots once or twice a day. Although I wish there were no pots, that's not game breaking to me.
Requiring you to simply SUB to a game to get the full experience is not P2W but basic common sense business.
P2W has always meant paying for an advantage. What has happened is player tolerance levels for " fair " gameplay has dropped significantly because they have been playing nothing but microtransaction games. Players no longer want to accept that they have to take the long way to achieving the same thing as a paying customer.
What was " free " before is not free enough now.
Unfortunately you utterly missed the latter part of the definition of P2W, let me recite the whole thing for you:
P2W has always meant paying for an advantage >>that could not be acquired in-game in any other way than paying<<.
but out from what i have read, the LP system is more punishing for players that start the game out very Sandbox style, compared to the early players who started the game off more like a traditional THEMEPARK and grinding quest first to level 30 before doing their own sandbox adventure..
but out from what i have read, the LP system is more punishing for players that start the game out very Sandbox style, compared to the early players who started the game off more like a traditional THEMEPARK and grinding quest first to level 30 before doing their own sandbox adventure..
Yes but certain quests teach you about sandbox mechanics in AA or give you items useful to it or at least directions. If you aren't a patron yeah it's gonna be a bit hard getting by doing your own thing from the get go but such is life, I will try to breach into patron status from F2P via APEX with no investment to see if it can be done without too much hassle.
but out from what i have read, the LP system is more punishing for players that start the game out very Sandbox style, compared to the early players who started the game off more like a traditional THEMEPARK and grinding quest first to level 30 before doing their own sandbox adventure..
Yes but certain quests teach you about sandbox mechanics in AA or give you items useful to it or at least directions. If you aren't a patron yeah it's gonna be a bit hard getting by doing your own thing from the get go but such is life, I will try to breach into patron status from F2P via APEX with no investment to see if it can be done without too much hassle.
I will call it like I see it - BULLSHIT. The LP is skewed so much towards Patrons/Sub it isn't funny. I wouldn't complain at all but the LP is the basic mechanism to craft/do everything in the game - I mean everything. Want a farm - OH you are not a Patron well you cannot own land and you cannot build a house. It is a total P2W - where if you throw money down a rat hole you get the benefits.
I hope people enjoy this game - I am not playing - it reminds me too much of Allods Online.
but out from what i have read, the LP system is more punishing for players that start the game out very Sandbox style, compared to the early players who started the game off more like a traditional THEMEPARK and grinding quest first to level 30 before doing their own sandbox adventure..
Yes but certain quests teach you about sandbox mechanics in AA or give you items useful to it or at least directions. If you aren't a patron yeah it's gonna be a bit hard getting by doing your own thing from the get go but such is life, I will try to breach into patron status from F2P via APEX with no investment to see if it can be done without too much hassle.
I will call it like I see it - BULLSHIT. The LP is skewed so much towards Patrons/Sub it isn't funny. I wouldn't complain at all but the LP is the basic mechanism to craft/do everything in the game - I mean everything. Want a farm - OH you are not a Patron well you cannot own land and you cannot build a house. It is a total P2W - where if you throw money down a rat hole you get the benefits.
I hope people enjoy this game - I am not playing - it reminds me too much of Allods Online.
Start explaining what you mean by everything. Pretty sure the F2P system covers everything aside from intensive crafting and house ownership in its regeneration rate.
Also next time your try to use another game as an example try to do so in a way that does not make you look grossly uninformed as I've played Allods and in that game you couldn't take a dump without paying money, in AA basic functionality is maintained for free players and if they want sandbox level stuff (housing, farms, etc) without delving into the family stuff or having to you know: socialize then yeah they will have to either fork over some time to earn gold for APEX or some cash. The option is there unlike Allods last time I played...heh...calling as you see it... if you had said Spiral Knights you would've at least been within several AU of the game.
but out from what i have read, the LP system is more punishing for players that start the game out very Sandbox style, compared to the early players who started the game off more like a traditional THEMEPARK and grinding quest first to level 30 before doing their own sandbox adventure..
Yes but certain quests teach you about sandbox mechanics in AA or give you items useful to it or at least directions. If you aren't a patron yeah it's gonna be a bit hard getting by doing your own thing from the get go but such is life, I will try to breach into patron status from F2P via APEX with no investment to see if it can be done without too much hassle.
I will call it like I see it - BULLSHIT. The LP is skewed so much towards Patrons/Sub it isn't funny. I wouldn't complain at all but the LP is the basic mechanism to craft/do everything in the game - I mean everything. Want a farm - OH you are not a Patron well you cannot own land and you cannot build a house. It is a total P2W - where if you throw money down a rat hole you get the benefits.
I hope people enjoy this game - I am not playing - it reminds me too much of Allods Online.
Just wondering. Why would a Free to Play player get the same benefits as a Paying customer?
Just wondering. Why would a Free to Play player get the same benefits as a Paying customer?
I guess opening your mail or receiving your quest reward is too much to ask for as free player. I'm suprised they haven't started subtracting LP for walking around.
but out from what i have read, the LP system is more punishing for players that start the game out very Sandbox style, compared to the early players who started the game off more like a traditional THEMEPARK and grinding quest first to level 30 before doing their own sandbox adventure..
Yes but certain quests teach you about sandbox mechanics in AA or give you items useful to it or at least directions. If you aren't a patron yeah it's gonna be a bit hard getting by doing your own thing from the get go but such is life, I will try to breach into patron status from F2P via APEX with no investment to see if it can be done without too much hassle.
I will call it like I see it - BULLSHIT. The LP is skewed so much towards Patrons/Sub it isn't funny. I wouldn't complain at all but the LP is the basic mechanism to craft/do everything in the game - I mean everything. Want a farm - OH you are not a Patron well you cannot own land and you cannot build a house. It is a total P2W - where if you throw money down a rat hole you get the benefits.
I hope people enjoy this game - I am not playing - it reminds me too much of Allods Online.
Start explaining what you mean by everything. Pretty sure the F2P system covers everything aside from intensive crafting and house ownership in its regeneration rate.
Also next time your try to use another game as an example try to do so in a way that does not make you look grossly uninformed as I've played Allods and in that game you couldn't take a dump without paying money, in AA basic functionality is maintained for free players and if they want sandbox level stuff (housing, farms, etc) without delving into the family stuff or having to you know: socialize then yeah they will have to either fork over some time to earn gold for APEX or some cash. The option is there unlike Allods last time I played...heh...calling as you see it... if you had said Spiral Knights you would've at least been within several AU of the game.
This game will be pretty much like Allods Online, if Trion doesn't get it changed. It is the same problem - if you want to own land and a F2P player - you can buy a certificate so you can build. OH, don't forget you have to pay taxes, that is another CS certificate you have to buy (don't know if it is one time or every time - being suspicious I think every time). Then when you want to move on - you have to buy a certificate (from the CS) for every X valuation of property. Then if you want to build a different house - rinse and repeat. With this game there really isn't a F2P option if you want to craft.
As far as the 'Shared Farms' - I have played MMO's long enough to know I trust other players as far as I can spit. Anyone can harvest your stuff, they will EVENTUALLY be punished but anyone can.
It is starting to sound like Allods Online now - doesn't it?
Just wondering. Why would a Free to Play player get the same benefits as a Paying customer?
I guess opening your mail or receiving your quest reward is too much to ask for as free player. I'm suprised they haven't started subtracting LP for walking around.
Umm, you dont use LP for opening mail. Just for stuff you get off the AH.
Trion is looking at changing the LP cost of opening rewards.
but out from what i have read, the LP system is more punishing for players that start the game out very Sandbox style, compared to the early players who started the game off more like a traditional THEMEPARK and grinding quest first to level 30 before doing their own sandbox adventure..
Yes but certain quests teach you about sandbox mechanics in AA or give you items useful to it or at least directions. If you aren't a patron yeah it's gonna be a bit hard getting by doing your own thing from the get go but such is life, I will try to breach into patron status from F2P via APEX with no investment to see if it can be done without too much hassle.
I will call it like I see it - BULLSHIT. The LP is skewed so much towards Patrons/Sub it isn't funny. I wouldn't complain at all but the LP is the basic mechanism to craft/do everything in the game - I mean everything. Want a farm - OH you are not a Patron well you cannot own land and you cannot build a house. It is a total P2W - where if you throw money down a rat hole you get the benefits.
I hope people enjoy this game - I am not playing - it reminds me too much of Allods Online.
Start explaining what you mean by everything. Pretty sure the F2P system covers everything aside from intensive crafting and house ownership in its regeneration rate.
Also next time your try to use another game as an example try to do so in a way that does not make you look grossly uninformed as I've played Allods and in that game you couldn't take a dump without paying money, in AA basic functionality is maintained for free players and if they want sandbox level stuff (housing, farms, etc) without delving into the family stuff or having to you know: socialize then yeah they will have to either fork over some time to earn gold for APEX or some cash. The option is there unlike Allods last time I played...heh...calling as you see it... if you had said Spiral Knights you would've at least been within several AU of the game.
This game will be pretty much like Allods Online, if Trion doesn't get it changed. It is the same problem - if you want to own land and a F2P player - you can buy a certificate so you can build. OH, don't forget you have to pay taxes, that is another CS certificate you have to buy (don't know if it is one time or every time - being suspicious I think every time). Then when you want to move on - you have to buy a certificate (from the CS) for every X valuation of property. Then if you want to build a different house - rinse and repeat. With this game there really isn't a F2P option if you want to craft.
As far as the 'Shared Farms' - I have played MMO's long enough to know I trust other players as far as I can spit. Anyone can harvest your stuff, they will EVENTUALLY be punished but anyone can.
It is starting to sound like Allods Online now - doesn't it?
Yeah kinda... if you believe what you said.. you can't own land as a F2Per at all and as for your CS certificates they can either be crafted or bought (CS or AH). Spectacular lack of knowledge there. The one point you were right is in selling houses but yeah that's just how things go really (fairly sure you could buy those off the AH as well but if not and someone wants your house that badly you could ask them to acquire the paperwork and you deduct its price from the asking price for the house, I know mind blown how easy things can be when you actually stop gawking at a problem from one single angle).
As a general statement, this is incorrect. It all depends on what the game's mechanics allow you to do with multiple accounts. There are very few advantages over other players to be gained from a multiple account in WoW unless you are botting. I played SWG on a single account, I knew many who had 2 or even 3 accounts. But they didn't get any advantage over others from them. Ok, maybe a little, but not enough to justify the cost of it alone. Mostly, they were using them to widen their own experience in the game playing with different roles. On the other hand, I played Anarchy Online for years with 2 accounts. But, It didn't give me any advantages over other players instead, it did allow me to do things I needed to do without sitting in Old Athens spamming chat asking for buffs. Every game has to be weighed for what you can do in it.
At the end of it all calling it P2W or not is semantics really. Because what will really matter is what really happens in the game. Who will be the top players? Who will be the power gamers who control the flow and direction of the game? And how will they get there and will there be a connection to multiple accounts? If so, I really don't care if you called it P2W, P2L, P2P or whatever, what will have mattered was that the people who spent more money than you got ahead of you using advantages that they paid more for.
I just played normally like i would in other title like Aion etc.. opening loots, haversting and mining to get materials ready for the clipper or glider builds and was out of lp faster then light... so i stopped haversting and opening loot except for quest gear ... was afk for night (something i dont do as electric is a pricey at least if you have to pay yourself for it). So the next day i could acutally opening all my loot and buy the 10gp horse...
Clearing as harvesting / crafting even opening coin purse etc give quit a bit exp. Patron players can level alot faster just by spending labour points ... no biggy though.
I dont care too much about building a house&farm - but building a clipper will cost days of labour saving and afking... not cool.
Plus making "money" in the game for f2p players is serverly restriced as they can not sell via AH... and selling via chat is boring and certainly will be at a lower price - plus i hate shouting...
So "buying" apex for f2p will be hard as hell. Aion f2p did had a similar restriction - but for some odd reason making money for me in aion on a new f2p server was easy even as a noob to aion, due to no "labour" restriction via crafting - they had a minor restriction for gathering ...100 tries/items per day, if i remember correctly...which was fair imo and didnt seem to bother me.
I still got like 24month worth of unused sub items on my aion account - just by playing the auction house and buying & selling alchi pots...
...
Despite the labour shortage i did enjoy the cbt2 in Archeage - even if i didnt not manage get even 1/4 of my clipper raw materials at lvl30+...and still have 200+ unopend coin purses...and ended at zero labour.
Archeage is unfortunatly (though understandably) set up via labour system as p2w ..
No f2p player will be able to max the crafting level fast enough to get competive in making decent (PVP/E) gear - maybe in the long long term via the help of patron friends how gather from him, i have been successfull in p2w games without paying anything - but they didnt have any restriction regarding auction house or gathering/farming - eg runes of magic etc.
I do hope trion will fix a few things to try retain the majority of f2p players before they vanish to the next hot thing. (There are few more nice Pvp-titles incoming in 2015...)
Archeage and any other f2p game needs f2p and p2p players ... else its getting empty and boring... and servers get merged and merged and closed down ... look at vanguard, which just closed down last month- which could have been great pvp-game, but was but extremly badly launched and had near zero support and f2p model wasnt even worth looking at...i didnt even bother reinstalling it, despite havening enjoy it planing before.
Good luck and maybe see you in game at launch - hoping they change some stuff for the better
It really seems like many are throwing P2W as a blanket statement on this game, but it does not seem to fit. The whole idea of the player accounts as designed seems to encourage subscriptions. Is there really anything wrong with that? Isn't WoW the same way with level to 20 and then have to sub to continue? If that is how it still works. They encourage a subscription via that method. If anything, this is less restrictive because you can at least max level, without some of the benefits of subscription.
Labor point pots in the cash shop could be construed as P2W to some, although it mostly seems to be a time saver rather than a method to "win". Some may get ahead faster, but after a couple of months it seems that most people will be in a big melting pot of similar power.
It really seems like many are throwing P2W as a blanket statement on this game, but it does not seem to fit. The whole idea of the player accounts as designed seems to encourage subscriptions. Is there really anything wrong with that? Isn't WoW the same way with level to 20 and then have to sub to continue? If that is how it still works. They encourage a subscription via that method. If anything, this is less restrictive because you can at least max level, without some of the benefits of subscription.
Labor point pots in the cash shop could be construed as P2W to some, although it mostly seems to be a time saver rather than a method to "win". Some may get ahead faster, but after a couple of months it seems that most people will be in a big melting pot of similar power.
Yup. Some people seem to think that a F2P experience has to be EXACTLY the same as people who sub to the game. It's a mind-boggling mentality.
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Originally posted by vidiotkingSeems to me one of the biggest misconceptions regarding AA is LP. Labor Points.One needs them, badly. To farm, to craft, to open loot(this one MAY change), to get your gold out of the AH.At early levels you MAY find yourself needing to manage your LP because you won't have it capped at 5k.In later levels I don't think it will be an issue for MOST players. It has not been an issue for me at all.I'm talking about patron's here, not F2P players.I craft/farm about 4-6 hours a day and I never even come close to using 1/2 my LP.So to all the players who have concerns regarding LP, don't.
Here is the major problem:
Take someone limited play time. he gets in a couple nights a week, maybe a couple hours each night. he likes to craft, and its what he does most of his time logged in. because he barely plays, he logs in every day capped LPs, has no issue.
Now he gets a couple days off and he wants to play ArcheAge. By the end of the first day hes burned through his LP and isn't going to regen them fast enough to be able to get full enjoyment out of AA the second day.
Its a fun restricting system that's only purpose is monetization. there are better ways to limit market flooding.
OP is right that it wont affect most people, but that doesn't mean its not an atrocious system.
Originally posted by Pepeq But it still sounds like it merely takes longer, not that you can't do something, literally at all. If you don't have 600 LP to complete some quest, you complete it when you do... if that's a week or a month later, that's just time. You do other quests or other things in the meantime. You talk as if a F2P player will be unable to do anything at all within 4 hours of gameplay because they won't have enough LP. You literally cannot do anything in game because you don't have any LP... literally nothing at all? Or just nothing that you care to do?
I'm trying to understand if you're defending this system or just pointing the obvious out. Though as a whole a system that limits a player from doing what they want to do is a bad idea. This is especially true in the west. Final Fantasy XIV 1.0 had this system implemented, and it was one of the first things to go when the new team was put in. Though this is just speaking in general -- that such a system is incredibly bad if the point is to attract western players and keep them.
This reminds me too much of facebook games that take 20 hours to get enough resources to build a building; just mildly entertaining if you want to access it for five minutes a day to see your city or your farm. But in a MMO? In every game thus far that has had such a limitation, it has been poorly implemented. Doubly so if it restricts aspects of content, or even involves opening bags or taking gold out of the auction house.
Though as they say, a fool is soon parted with their money. Facebook games made a lot of money using that model, and selling the ability to open backs or open an auction house window will likely cause someone to go backrupt -- that is, if they didn't have the option for subscribers. Which gives credence to those asking why it isn't just P2P. I'd be all for this game just being pure P2P without the sleezy F2P aspects they're trying to pull on people (I can't even call it F2P myself). It's even to the point where subscribers might be limited on what they can do early one; one poster mentioned a 50% boost of LP increase as being a subscriber with a 10 hour waiting time to finish a quest for not being one (which means there's still quite a few hours he / she would have to wait anyway as a subscriber at that point).
Any amount of waiting for a subscriber is too much in particular in my opinion. Many did not want to wait for fatigue to wear off in Final Fantasy, and this is a much more extreme example of that. Speaking purely on a business level, one would think that they would want to draw them in early, make them addicted and then pull this nonsense with buying pots. But they don't even do that right. Match that with this naturally being a forced PvP game (which I'm not against -- I still play Ultima Online Felucca at times and have been since 1998), which significantly reduces the amount of players that would stay past the nonsense of LP as is and... you have a massive problem as a company that actually wants a profit.
It's just... I don't see much of a future for this game as a whole. Which is sad, because I'd like to see Trion have a winning game to make profit.
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It really seems like many are throwing P2W as a blanket statement on this game, but it does not seem to fit. The whole idea of the player accounts as designed seems to encourage subscriptions. Is there really anything wrong with that? Isn't WoW the same way with level to 20 and then have to sub to continue? If that is how it still works. They encourage a subscription via that method. If anything, this is less restrictive because you can at least max level, without some of the benefits of subscription.
Labor point pots in the cash shop could be construed as P2W to some, although it mostly seems to be a time saver rather than a method to "win". Some may get ahead faster, but after a couple of months it seems that most people will be in a big melting pot of similar power.
Yeah, "after a few months" everyone will catch-up to those who raced ahead by using LP potions.
However, nowadays the average MMO'er doesn't actually play any one game for more than 2 or 3 months before jumping to the next launch. So they will most likely not play enough to experience the level playing field that will eventually exist. Most F2P games are designed to exploit this fact, with many of the "must have" purchases concentrated in the starting levels of the game. Even the little tricks like "just login every day for 3 months and get this awesome mount totally FREE !" or buy it now in the CS for $15...
It's the player's emotional experience that counts, not the facts.
This game should had never been F2P. This system is ridiculous, and I feel sorry to those who are agreeing with it. If this system becomes the new norm it will eventually ruin all F2P games to the point of unplayable. I am staying the fuck away from this game, and hope this abomination doesn't spread to any future game.
It really seems like many are throwing P2W as a blanket statement on this game, but it does not seem to fit. The whole idea of the player accounts as designed seems to encourage subscriptions. Is there really anything wrong with that? Isn't WoW the same way with level to 20 and then have to sub to continue? If that is how it still works. They encourage a subscription via that method. If anything, this is less restrictive because you can at least max level, without some of the benefits of subscription.
Labor point pots in the cash shop could be construed as P2W to some, although it mostly seems to be a time saver rather than a method to "win". Some may get ahead faster, but after a couple of months it seems that most people will be in a big melting pot of similar power.
Yeah, "after a few months" everyone will catch-up to those who raced ahead by using LP potions.
However, nowadays the average MMO'er doesn't actually play any one game for more than 2 or 3 months before jumping to the next launch. So they will most likely not play enough to experience the level playing field that will eventually exist. Most F2P games are designed to exploit this fact, with many of the "must have" purchases concentrated in the starting levels of the game. Even the little tricks like "just login every day for 3 months and get this awesome mount totally FREE !" or buy it now in the CS for $15...
It's the player's emotional experience that counts, not the facts.
So if that is the case what does it matter?
If someone only plays for a month they really have little desire to try and max things out.
Originally posted by pacov This game should had never been F2P. This system is ridiculous, and I feel sorry to those who are agreeing with it. If this system becomes the new norm it will eventually ruin all F2P games to the point of unplayable. I am staying the fuck away from this game, and hope this abomination doesn't spread to any future game.
I hope all forms of free to play games die out and go back to sub or gtfo.
Its a cancer that is making the whole industry pay to enjoy instead of giving you acces to everything without the need to keep spending money to unlock certain parts of the game.
But hey its what the freeloaders wanted right ? free to play ? and studio's need to make moneh !!! so here you have it !!
Welcome to the new future of free to play, now deal with it.
As a general statement, this is incorrect. It all depends on what the game's mechanics allow you to do with multiple accounts. There are very few advantages over other players to be gained from a multiple account in WoW unless you are botting. I played SWG on a single account, I knew many who had 2 or even 3 accounts. But they didn't get any advantage over others from them. Ok, maybe a little, but not enough to justify the cost of it alone. Mostly, they were using them to widen their own experience in the game playing with different roles. On the other hand, I played Anarchy Online for years with 2 accounts. But, It didn't give me any advantages over other players instead, it did allow me to do things I needed to do without sitting in Old Athens spamming chat asking for buffs. Every game has to be weighed for what you can do in it.
At the end of it all calling it P2W or not is semantics really. Because what will really matter is what really happens in the game. Who will be the top players? Who will be the power gamers who control the flow and direction of the game? And how will they get there and will there be a connection to multiple accounts? If so, I really don't care if you called it P2W, P2L, P2P or whatever, what will have mattered was that the people who spent more money than you got ahead of you using advantages that they paid more for.
I had 2 accounts in SWG and it was a HUGE benefit to me, so our experiences are differenet. I almost doubled my income and had made almost 1 billion credits in 6 months. I could not have done that w/0 the second account. I needed the inventory and harvestors that the second account supplied. So, atleast in my case, that second account was P2W.
I don't know diddly about AO, but you totally contradict yourself about it saying it didn't give you an advantage, and then you explain how it did.
Had this thought last night. You could buy a second account AND "chug" LP pots.
Don't get me wrong. I do think LP pots are P2W'ish. I do think LP is very much like those FB/SmartPhone games that make you wait to play. I do prefer a "straight up" sub model.
I'm just saying that it hasn't effected me much if at all so far. That I havn't had to buy LP pots, and I don't think most players will have to either. I do concede that some people will have more problems w/ it than I do. Good examples of how this may happen to a player are given in this thread.
Comments
Unfortunately you utterly missed the latter part of the definition of P2W, let me recite the whole thing for you:
P2W has always meant paying for an advantage >>that could not be acquired in-game in any other way than paying<<.
Correct me if I am wrong:
but out from what i have read, the LP system is more punishing for players that start the game out very Sandbox style, compared to the early players who started the game off more like a traditional THEMEPARK and grinding quest first to level 30 before doing their own sandbox adventure..
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Yes but certain quests teach you about sandbox mechanics in AA or give you items useful to it or at least directions. If you aren't a patron yeah it's gonna be a bit hard getting by doing your own thing from the get go but such is life, I will try to breach into patron status from F2P via APEX with no investment to see if it can be done without too much hassle.
I will call it like I see it - BULLSHIT. The LP is skewed so much towards Patrons/Sub it isn't funny. I wouldn't complain at all but the LP is the basic mechanism to craft/do everything in the game - I mean everything. Want a farm - OH you are not a Patron well you cannot own land and you cannot build a house. It is a total P2W - where if you throw money down a rat hole you get the benefits.
I hope people enjoy this game - I am not playing - it reminds me too much of Allods Online.
Start explaining what you mean by everything. Pretty sure the F2P system covers everything aside from intensive crafting and house ownership in its regeneration rate.
Also next time your try to use another game as an example try to do so in a way that does not make you look grossly uninformed as I've played Allods and in that game you couldn't take a dump without paying money, in AA basic functionality is maintained for free players and if they want sandbox level stuff (housing, farms, etc) without delving into the family stuff or having to you know: socialize then yeah they will have to either fork over some time to earn gold for APEX or some cash. The option is there unlike Allods last time I played...heh...calling as you see it... if you had said Spiral Knights you would've at least been within several AU of the game.
Just wondering. Why would a Free to Play player get the same benefits as a Paying customer?
I guess opening your mail or receiving your quest reward is too much to ask for as free player. I'm suprised they haven't started subtracting LP for walking around.
This game will be pretty much like Allods Online, if Trion doesn't get it changed. It is the same problem - if you want to own land and a F2P player - you can buy a certificate so you can build. OH, don't forget you have to pay taxes, that is another CS certificate you have to buy (don't know if it is one time or every time - being suspicious I think every time). Then when you want to move on - you have to buy a certificate (from the CS) for every X valuation of property. Then if you want to build a different house - rinse and repeat. With this game there really isn't a F2P option if you want to craft.
As far as the 'Shared Farms' - I have played MMO's long enough to know I trust other players as far as I can spit. Anyone can harvest your stuff, they will EVENTUALLY be punished but anyone can.
It is starting to sound like Allods Online now - doesn't it?
Umm, you dont use LP for opening mail. Just for stuff you get off the AH.
Trion is looking at changing the LP cost of opening rewards.
Yeah kinda... if you believe what you said.. you can't own land as a F2Per at all and as for your CS certificates they can either be crafted or bought (CS or AH). Spectacular lack of knowledge there. The one point you were right is in selling houses but yeah that's just how things go really (fairly sure you could buy those off the AH as well but if not and someone wants your house that badly you could ask them to acquire the paperwork and you deduct its price from the asking price for the house, I know mind blown how easy things can be when you actually stop gawking at a problem from one single angle).
As a general statement, this is incorrect. It all depends on what the game's mechanics allow you to do with multiple accounts. There are very few advantages over other players to be gained from a multiple account in WoW unless you are botting. I played SWG on a single account, I knew many who had 2 or even 3 accounts. But they didn't get any advantage over others from them. Ok, maybe a little, but not enough to justify the cost of it alone. Mostly, they were using them to widen their own experience in the game playing with different roles. On the other hand, I played Anarchy Online for years with 2 accounts. But, It didn't give me any advantages over other players instead, it did allow me to do things I needed to do without sitting in Old Athens spamming chat asking for buffs. Every game has to be weighed for what you can do in it.
At the end of it all calling it P2W or not is semantics really. Because what will really matter is what really happens in the game. Who will be the top players? Who will be the power gamers who control the flow and direction of the game? And how will they get there and will there be a connection to multiple accounts? If so, I really don't care if you called it P2W, P2L, P2P or whatever, what will have mattered was that the people who spent more money than you got ahead of you using advantages that they paid more for.
So if it cost 1,000,000 gold for an LP pot it is ok, since it can be obtained with game currency.
I hope you know understand why acquiring cash shop items with game currency is irrelevant.
Or you could just wait, be part of a guild, have another account...
First the f2p variant caps at 2k labour points...
I just played normally like i would in other title like Aion etc.. opening loots, haversting and mining to get materials ready for the clipper or glider builds and was out of lp faster then light... so i stopped haversting and opening loot except for quest gear ... was afk for night (something i dont do as electric is a pricey at least if you have to pay yourself for it). So the next day i could acutally opening all my loot and buy the 10gp horse...
Clearing as harvesting / crafting even opening coin purse etc give quit a bit exp. Patron players can level alot faster just by spending labour points ... no biggy though.
I dont care too much about building a house&farm - but building a clipper will cost days of labour saving and afking... not cool.
Plus making "money" in the game for f2p players is serverly restriced as they can not sell via AH... and selling via chat is boring and certainly will be at a lower price - plus i hate shouting...
So "buying" apex for f2p will be hard as hell. Aion f2p did had a similar restriction - but for some odd reason making money for me in aion on a new f2p server was easy even as a noob to aion, due to no "labour" restriction via crafting - they had a minor restriction for gathering ...100 tries/items per day, if i remember correctly...which was fair imo and didnt seem to bother me.
I still got like 24month worth of unused sub items on my aion account - just by playing the auction house and buying & selling alchi pots...
...
Despite the labour shortage i did enjoy the cbt2 in Archeage - even if i didnt not manage get even 1/4 of my clipper raw materials at lvl30+...and still have 200+ unopend coin purses...and ended at zero labour.
Archeage is unfortunatly (though understandably) set up via labour system as p2w ..
No f2p player will be able to max the crafting level fast enough to get competive in making decent (PVP/E) gear - maybe in the long long term via the help of patron friends how gather from him, i have been successfull in p2w games without paying anything - but they didnt have any restriction regarding auction house or gathering/farming - eg runes of magic etc.
I do hope trion will fix a few things to try retain the majority of f2p players before they vanish to the next hot thing. (There are few more nice Pvp-titles incoming in 2015...)
Archeage and any other f2p game needs f2p and p2p players ... else its getting empty and boring... and servers get merged and merged and closed down ... look at vanguard, which just closed down last month- which could have been great pvp-game, but was but extremly badly launched and had near zero support and f2p model wasnt even worth looking at...i didnt even bother reinstalling it, despite havening enjoy it planing before.
Good luck and maybe see you in game at launch - hoping they change some stuff for the better
Mask
It really seems like many are throwing P2W as a blanket statement on this game, but it does not seem to fit. The whole idea of the player accounts as designed seems to encourage subscriptions. Is there really anything wrong with that? Isn't WoW the same way with level to 20 and then have to sub to continue? If that is how it still works. They encourage a subscription via that method. If anything, this is less restrictive because you can at least max level, without some of the benefits of subscription.
Labor point pots in the cash shop could be construed as P2W to some, although it mostly seems to be a time saver rather than a method to "win". Some may get ahead faster, but after a couple of months it seems that most people will be in a big melting pot of similar power.
Yup. Some people seem to think that a F2P experience has to be EXACTLY the same as people who sub to the game. It's a mind-boggling mentality.
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Here is the major problem:
Take someone limited play time. he gets in a couple nights a week, maybe a couple hours each night. he likes to craft, and its what he does most of his time logged in. because he barely plays, he logs in every day capped LPs, has no issue.
Now he gets a couple days off and he wants to play ArcheAge. By the end of the first day hes burned through his LP and isn't going to regen them fast enough to be able to get full enjoyment out of AA the second day.
Its a fun restricting system that's only purpose is monetization. there are better ways to limit market flooding.
OP is right that it wont affect most people, but that doesn't mean its not an atrocious system.
I'm trying to understand if you're defending this system or just pointing the obvious out. Though as a whole a system that limits a player from doing what they want to do is a bad idea. This is especially true in the west. Final Fantasy XIV 1.0 had this system implemented, and it was one of the first things to go when the new team was put in. Though this is just speaking in general -- that such a system is incredibly bad if the point is to attract western players and keep them.
This reminds me too much of facebook games that take 20 hours to get enough resources to build a building; just mildly entertaining if you want to access it for five minutes a day to see your city or your farm. But in a MMO? In every game thus far that has had such a limitation, it has been poorly implemented. Doubly so if it restricts aspects of content, or even involves opening bags or taking gold out of the auction house.
Though as they say, a fool is soon parted with their money. Facebook games made a lot of money using that model, and selling the ability to open backs or open an auction house window will likely cause someone to go backrupt -- that is, if they didn't have the option for subscribers. Which gives credence to those asking why it isn't just P2P. I'd be all for this game just being pure P2P without the sleezy F2P aspects they're trying to pull on people (I can't even call it F2P myself). It's even to the point where subscribers might be limited on what they can do early one; one poster mentioned a 50% boost of LP increase as being a subscriber with a 10 hour waiting time to finish a quest for not being one (which means there's still quite a few hours he / she would have to wait anyway as a subscriber at that point).
Any amount of waiting for a subscriber is too much in particular in my opinion. Many did not want to wait for fatigue to wear off in Final Fantasy, and this is a much more extreme example of that. Speaking purely on a business level, one would think that they would want to draw them in early, make them addicted and then pull this nonsense with buying pots. But they don't even do that right. Match that with this naturally being a forced PvP game (which I'm not against -- I still play Ultima Online Felucca at times and have been since 1998), which significantly reduces the amount of players that would stay past the nonsense of LP as is and... you have a massive problem as a company that actually wants a profit.
It's just... I don't see much of a future for this game as a whole. Which is sad, because I'd like to see Trion have a winning game to make profit.
i also want to note is that
in the beginning farm nodes or fish whatever the cast may be.. build you max LP up
every 100 lp spent is 10 lp to your max lp so burn that lp asap so you can get to max lp 5k and let it build up and what not..
Yeah, "after a few months" everyone will catch-up to those who raced ahead by using LP potions.
However, nowadays the average MMO'er doesn't actually play any one game for more than 2 or 3 months before jumping to the next launch. So they will most likely not play enough to experience the level playing field that will eventually exist. Most F2P games are designed to exploit this fact, with many of the "must have" purchases concentrated in the starting levels of the game. Even the little tricks like "just login every day for 3 months and get this awesome mount totally FREE !" or buy it now in the CS for $15...
It's the player's emotional experience that counts, not the facts.
So if that is the case what does it matter?
If someone only plays for a month they really have little desire to try and max things out.
I hope all forms of free to play games die out and go back to sub or gtfo.
Its a cancer that is making the whole industry pay to enjoy instead of giving you acces to everything without the need to keep spending money to unlock certain parts of the game.
But hey its what the freeloaders wanted right ? free to play ? and studio's need to make moneh !!! so here you have it !!
Welcome to the new future of free to play, now deal with it.
I had 2 accounts in SWG and it was a HUGE benefit to me, so our experiences are differenet. I almost doubled my income and had made almost 1 billion credits in 6 months. I could not have done that w/0 the second account. I needed the inventory and harvestors that the second account supplied. So, atleast in my case, that second account was P2W.
I don't know diddly about AO, but you totally contradict yourself about it saying it didn't give you an advantage, and then you explain how it did.
Had this thought last night. You could buy a second account AND "chug" LP pots.
/mindblown
Don't get me wrong. I do think LP pots are P2W'ish. I do think LP is very much like those FB/SmartPhone games that make you wait to play. I do prefer a "straight up" sub model.
I'm just saying that it hasn't effected me much if at all so far. That I havn't had to buy LP pots, and I don't think most players will have to either. I do concede that some people will have more problems w/ it than I do. Good examples of how this may happen to a player are given in this thread.
It's not game breaking for me.