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Backlash to Action Combat
MightyUnclean
Member EpicPosts: 3,531
I am curious about the future of action combat and tab-targeting in MMOs. My guess is that a lot of the recently released and currently being developed action MMOs were a direct result of GW2, which was thought by many to be a truly revolutionary game that could be a WoW-killer. That didn't come to pass, and unless I'm mistaken, none of the other action combat MMOs subsequently released have taken the top ranking spots in the West away from tab-target games like WoW, SWTOR and FFXIV. Am I correct in this? If this is the case, will future developers look at the continuing success of tab-target games and go back to this format with new games? I don't think that action combat will go away, but is there room in the future for both styles?
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I also no longer have any use for combat that requires you to hold down the right mouse button all the time for no good reason. At least give an option to lock mouselook.
Well I know what we won't see is any big new tactical turn-based games.
Dofus did well for years before it kept pushing in a graphical direction players didn't really like (at least in the English-speaking community) and also accumulated a reputation for poor customer service. But since no one was impressed enough with it and the single-player series Disgaea in their heyday, we won't see anyone emulating them now that they're not in the spotlight anymore.
As far as action combat goes, the games usually have secondary interface problems, like not being able to accept quests or access your inventory with the gamepad. An MMO isn't a real success as an action game unless I can play the whole damn thing with my gamepad.
Guild Wars 2 didn't invent action combat. Hasn't anyone played Space Invaders? Or at least The Legend of Zelda?
I'd argue that as combat goes in the history of games, it's the start combat, wait for combat to end without doing anything interesting, and then rinse and repeat that some MMORPGs have that is the outlier.
I'm talking about MMO's here.
Were they? GW2 is the game that I remember bringing action combat into the mainstream.
I think the OP was specifically talking about the future of implementing different forms of combat into MMO's other than tab target.
Personally, I don't care too much for TERA/GW/WS combat, I go to mobas for that kind of fast paced combat I prefer a more strategic approach.
Played-Everything
Playing-LoL
Aye, i remember the raging hype about AOC and directional combat they were preaching. Personally i think action combat in mmorpgs have been shit so far and I personally have no interest in it. But AOC brought action combat to the "mainstream" especially on this site i remember these forums on fire with people so overly hyped they cried tears after the game crashed and burned.
It's not an RPG to me if all that matters is how good and fast you can circle or bunny hop around. For that type of gameplay I go with FPS that does it way better.
For my mmorpg I think the stats of the character should be the key deciding factor, thus why tab targeting always seemed to do better to me.
It's quite possible to have FPSRPGs though. Skyrim for example defaults to a first-person perspective and the archery play is especially FPS-like, but it's definitely an RPG, and that combination is what many people were hoping for in ESO.
Depends how you define RPG. Some real purists would say what you just described makes it not an RPG.
I definitely think RPG should be more about the character than the player.
Also can someone explain to me why people think magic abilities should be dodgable? Dodging fireballs seems kind of silly to me.
What a lot of people forget is that GW2 has both combat systems. You can go the tab target route if you wish. I also don't think GW2's action combat system is that good. It is different then a typical mmo but I think Tera has a better system.
Also I do not want to have an fps combat system in an mmo. To me they are two different kinds of games. I also see no reason unless it is optional to have your character switch from 3rd person to 1st person in combat. If you can choose to have it do that then ok, but to me I have always liked my mmos to have the 3rd person view for combat.
First mmo I played with action combat was Phantasy Star Online on my Dreamcast. Also Tera launched before GW2. I would say that is action combat. GW2 is half tab target and half action. I wouldn't say GW2 is the reason some of the new mmos are going towards that combat style. A lot of people don't even think it's action combat. So, I think it's only you who might think this.
The reason you are seeing more action combat in MMOs is because technology is finally at a place where action combat works well without lag. 10 years ago, it would of been a lot harder for an mmo to have action combat. You are only going to see more and more action combat mmos coming out. In fact, I bet the majority of new mmos will either have an action combat system like Tera, ESO etc. Or a slight tab target combat system like GW2.
Personally though, I think there is room for both systems. I enjoy both. If I had to choose one or the other. I would take action combat. I like my mmos to require some actual skill. If I want to eat a sandwich while watching a movie, I'll play a tab target mmo.
I would like to play AA but it is tab-target and I just cannot do it. TerA had fun combat, but some of the combat mechanic changes they made over time lowered the overall enjoyment for me. Stagger can fuck off.
I was originally more of a FPS/TPS player before I played MMORPGs and I am moving back to them. I would still love to see a MMOFPS/TPS that supports thousands, no tens of thousands, no MILLIONS of players all playing together at once! Technology isn't there yet I guess.
Also, where's this idea come from that GW2 was action combat? Didn't the game feature tab-targeting and all spells automatically attacked whatever you targeted as long as faced the target? Besides AoE of course...
As for the OPs question, I hope not, but the developers will only go where the money is.
I have to agree. Stagger was such a bad decision Blue Hole made. I have no idea why they thought it was a good idea. I would love Tera combat even more if they took that shit out of it.
Ive been closely following GW2 since 2009 and its my favorite mmorpg to date, and this is the first time i read someone saying that people claimed it was a wow killer. It was never announced as a wow competitor. WoW competitors have subscriptions. GW2 can be played alongside WoW or other sub baserd mmos without any problem. It was never competing to WoW. SO i think you were the only one saying that. And GW2 isnt action combat, it has a mix of both systems creating a totally new combat mechanic (sort of tab target with auto target replacing the tab, but still not reticle based to really call it actiony)
It also has my favorite combat system, but i really enjoy traditional tab target and action combat if done well. I havent played an mmorpg with an almost perfect action combat system. I havent seen the first one. All the ones currently out there always have a major flaw that turns the action combat into a crappy not so actiony feature. But i think Traditional Tab Targer will never go away because when its well done it provides more tactical approaches to combat instead of just spamming mouse clicks all over the place.
I have to agree, at least give credit where credit is due and properly.
Giving full props to Guild Wars 2 is quite bias and as stated, not really action combat per say. Sure it's a good concept, but when people look back down the road they will remember Phantasy Star Online and Tera as the true grandfathers for MMORPG's in general and Guild Wars 2 as the hybrid that made it more popular on a mass scale.
I prefer action MMORPG myself, quite alot. Not into macro'ing, like to feel more in control, really looking forward to some more, but above all I know one thing for sure, I want the action combat to be more like the previously stated games and not like Guild Wars 2. I like reticule/proximity targetting.
I agree on that. I have no need for 40 skills, but I'd also like more than 5-8 skills. TerA felt pretty good skill count wise, depended on class some.
I understood it as they implemented it to counter unkillable healers, but they also buffed the shit out of pvp defenses over time, especially for healers. Remove stagger and decrease health/armor/pvp defense! I can say I definitely abused playing with a few d-stance warrior friends for the first six months of 3v3 arena.
I no longer play.
Yeah you've got a point although most evasion/reflex just gives damage reduction not total negation, so I always thought of it more as avoiding a direct hit rather than totally bunny hopping out of the way. Personally I think something like Skyrim or GW2 are still RPGs. I was just saying you could make the argument that they aren't if you want to look at an RPG as totally playing a character but I think most people would accept hybrid systems.
I will never tab-target. Period. I will never macro. Another period. It is action-combat or I won't play the game. And I´m 45 years old, so reading about "action combat being for kids with adhd" makes me always furious. But as an adult, I just ignore it.
These posts seem to be very USA/EU-centric. Asians do great action-games and because of them action-combat will never disappear. Thank God.