Originally posted by MadFrenchie MMOs aren't declining, but they also aren't leading the way in online gaming.
Casual/Social games are and by a large margin. MOBAs are quickly becoming more popular than MMOs as well.
No problem. Just classified MOBAs as MMOs (as many industrial research sites), and MMO will suddenly look much better.
This is about the death of a style of gameplay. Adventure games died because they were not appealing to enough of the market, the same has happened to MMOs. What MMOs have become may well not appeal to enough of the market, and current 'MMOs' will die as well. MOBA's and other games like them may inherit the space that MMOs once held. Once a genre moves far enough from the mainstream it effectively dies, before you mention Sherlock Holmes again Nari, Adventure games need to be mainstream to be considered a vibrant genre, the days of Monkey Island are gone.
None of this is about making the best games you will notice, it is all about appealing to the maximum numbers of punters as possible, any genre that cannot do that is destined for the dustbin.
Yes .. and MMO .. at least the classical style is out of date, and i am not surprised if it goes the way of the point & click adventure. You do notice that "action adventure" (i.e. games like DMC & Gods of War) took the space of point & click adventure.
Same thing can happen to MMO. So something else will take MMO's market, and its name. I don't see a problem.
Let's build a fictional world and fill it with stuff for people to find and a few things to do.
Well people wanted more things to do and they brought in the scope for a 'full personal experience'.
Console games, single player games, smaller scoped games do this better.
MMOs can raise again if they focused on the people who want to work together and take on something larger than they've ever seen before.
Simple and Short and accurate..
IMO.. I wish MMORPG's would go back to their niche community they once owned.. Gaming companies have really bastardized what MMO are in the chase of the almighty dollar.. As far as I'm concern it is PHYSICALLY impossible to create a game that can harness everything under the sun and sell it to everyone.. PvP and PvE are at opposites sides of the game play spectrum.. You can NOT create a game that focuses on PvE content while keeping balance with PvP classes.. In the same turn you can't have balance PvP without homogenizing PvE into boring blur.. There are certain things that make PvE exciting and fun.. Those things being CHARMING mobs for long periods of time, lengthy mez, kiting, illusions and FD to name a few..
So what devs are trying to give us is a Ford Pinto Limo with 4x4 wheel drive that goes from 0 to 100 in less then 6 seconds, for under $20,000.. But in reality we are dealt a Duck Dynasty duck blind that sits in a tree that only family can appreciate.. lol
As soon as you figure out a reliable way to build an MMORPG cheap enough that a niche community can support it, and will also not nitpick the holy hell out of it, be sure to let someone know.
**
Because there are a lot of little, 2D MMORPGs being put out right now. They don't get many people because even though "niche" players have a minimum expectation that cannot be met on the cheap. There are a few Fallout 2 based MMORPGs out there too, but again, the graphics fall well short of the minimum expectations. Perpetuum is a very well put together "indie" and "niche" game, but not many people play it because of the minimum expectations of the "indie" and "niche" audience.
World of Tanks and League of Legends are VERY niche games.. Eve is considered niche to many.. What were you saying again about profitability?
Are you using "niche" to mean "small" or "targeted audience", because the relevant part here is the size of the audience. WoT and LoL are niche games, but the audience for those games is huge. Same thing for Eve, but the audience isn't nearly as big. Eve has a pretty specific audience, but at the same time that audience is fairly large. Not WoT or LoL large, but it's certainly very large in the context of MMORPGs.
Your suggestion above doesn't say to appeal to a very large audience with very specific tastes. Your post above says to appeal to the original MMORPG audience, which wasn't very large. The size of the audience is going to be a problem. You can't build an MMORPG for three million dollars any longer. Those Kickstarter games that you are getting ready to mention are either being funded with additional millions of dollars from the people developing the games, or they are building tech demos, not games.
Well, you could build an MMORPG for three million dollars, but you would have to scale way back on the graphics. Possibly even going with the isometric view and not a standard third person view. Linkrealms is trying that but they don't seem to be getting whole lot of attention from those "original" MMORPG players. Maybe Das Tal will have better luck.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Scot Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by MadFrenchie MMOs aren't declining, but they also aren't leading the way in online gaming.
Casual/Social games are and by a large margin. MOBAs are quickly becoming more popular than MMOs as well.
No problem. Just classified MOBAs as MMOs (as many industrial research sites), and MMO will suddenly look much better.
This is about the death of a style of gameplay. Adventure games died because they were not appealing to enough of the market, the same has happened to MMOs. What MMOs have become may well not appeal to enough of the market, and current 'MMOs' will die as well. MOBA's and other games like them may inherit the space that MMOs once held. Once a genre moves far enough from the mainstream it effectively dies, before you mention Sherlock Holmes again Nari, Adventure games need to be mainstream to be considered a vibrant genre, the days of Monkey Island are gone.
None of this is about making the best games you will notice, it is all about appealing to the maximum numbers of punters as possible, any genre that cannot do that is destined for the dustbin.
Yes .. and MMO .. at least the classical style is out of date, and i am not surprised if it goes the way of the point & click adventure. You do notice that "action adventure" (i.e. games like DMC & Gods of War) took the space of point & click adventure.
Same thing can happen to MMO. So something else will take MMO's market, and its name. I don't see a problem.
Meh, I doubt traditional MMOs (that is, persistent massively multiplayer universes) are going the way of the dodo. It'll probably revert back to the market share it enjoyed before WoW, which won't bother those who are still interested in the genre by that time. And still won't make MOBAs MMOs in anything but marketing name.
Originally posted by MadFrenchie MMOs aren't declining, but they also aren't leading the way in online gaming.
Casual/Social games are and by a large margin. MOBAs are quickly becoming more popular than MMOs as well.
No problem. Just classified MOBAs as MMOs (as many industrial research sites), and MMO will suddenly look much better.
This is about the death of a style of gameplay. Adventure games died because they were not appealing to enough of the market, the same has happened to MMOs. What MMOs have become may well not appeal to enough of the market, and current 'MMOs' will die as well. MOBA's and other games like them may inherit the space that MMOs once held. Once a genre moves far enough from the mainstream it effectively dies, before you mention Sherlock Holmes again Nari, Adventure games need to be mainstream to be considered a vibrant genre, the days of Monkey Island are gone.
None of this is about making the best games you will notice, it is all about appealing to the maximum numbers of punters as possible, any genre that cannot do that is destined for the dustbin.
Yes .. and MMO .. at least the classical style is out of date, and i am not surprised if it goes the way of the point & click adventure. You do notice that "action adventure" (i.e. games like DMC & Gods of War) took the space of point & click adventure.
Same thing can happen to MMO. So something else will take MMO's market, and its name. I don't see a problem.
Meh, I doubt traditional MMOs (that is, persistent massively multiplayer universes) are going the way of the dodo. It'll probably revert back to the market share it enjoyed before WoW, which won't bother those who are still interested in the genre by that time. And still won't make MOBAs MMOs in anything but marketing name.
You see elements of the old school point and click adventures in modern games, although the puzzles aren't obscure and as difficult as the old monkey islands games. You still combine items, solve puzzles pick up objects talk to NPC's and use them to solve a puzzle, open a door or progress the story. RPGs are full of point and click elements and so are survival horror games.
Elements of other genres have already entered MMOs with mixed results. However MMOs have a problem that is difficult to resolve. The question of whether it should be a game first or a virtual world first and a game secondly is one that even consumers are unsure of. The more game elements that appear in an MMO the shallower and less immersive the experience is, but the fewer game elements there are the less there is to do. No developer has ever seem to be able to strike a balance between gameplay and immersion.
Meh, I doubt traditional MMOs (that is, persistent massively multiplayer universes) are going the way of the dodo. It'll probably revert back to the market share it enjoyed before WoW, which won't bother those who are still interested in the genre by that time. And still won't make MOBAs MMOs in anything but marketing name.
Not even Blizz is making another one. ESO is doing meh business. I doubt EQN is going to be a break out game (but it may).
MMO itself is a marketing name ... so if the original one is not that hot anymore, add in MOBA and it may even "revive" the genre.
Not even Blizz is making another one. ESO is doing meh business. I doubt EQN is going to be a break out game (but it may).
MMO itself is a marketing name ... so if the original one is not that hot anymore, add in MOBA and it may even "revive" the genre.
I'd be really happy if the industry crashed to a point where a million subs was once again considered a success. I'm sure we'd see better quality MMOs in that case made by people who actually wanted to make them rather than just chasing dollar signs.
I guess there'd be some job losses which of course sucks but I'm really disillusioned with the way the whole games industry has become and especially the MMO industry . It's too big and bloated and greedy. It needs a shock to end a lot of the BS practices and mediocre games we see lately.
Not even Blizz is making another one. ESO is doing meh business. I doubt EQN is going to be a break out game (but it may).
MMO itself is a marketing name ... so if the original one is not that hot anymore, add in MOBA and it may even "revive" the genre.
I'd be really happy if the industry crashed to a point where a million subs was once again considered a success. I'm sure we'd see better quality MMOs in that case made by people who actually wanted to make them rather than just chasing dollar signs.
I guess there'd be some job losses which of course sucks but I'm really disillusioned with the way the whole games industry has become and especially the MMO industry . It's too big and bloated and greedy. It needs a shock to end a lot of the BS practices and mediocre games we see lately.
"mediocre" is subjective. To me, and metacritics, there are lots of good games lately.
RoS, Wolfenstein, Titanfall (which i do not play but rated well anyway), hearthstone ...even Sniper Elite 3. I don't see anything wrong with the game industry. It is producing fun (to me) games in 2013, and 2014 .. and heck, i have not even counted any indie stuff yet.
"mediocre" is subjective. To me, and metacritics, there are lots of good games lately.
RoS, Wolfenstein, Titanfall (which i do not play but rated well anyway), hearthstone ...even Sniper Elite 3. I don't see anything wrong with the game industry. It is producing fun (to me) games in 2013, and 2014 .. and heck, i have not even counted any indie stuff yet.
Well said. I'll always remember games like UO fondly, but I have no shortage of games that I enjoy.
There's a ton of MMOs (and other games) that I still need to catch up on, and I've been having some casual fun with Hearthstone as well, now that I've finally tried it after reading some of your posts about it a while back (thanks!).
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Meh, I doubt traditional MMOs (that is, persistent massively multiplayer universes) are going the way of the dodo. It'll probably revert back to the market share it enjoyed before WoW, which won't bother those who are still interested in the genre by that time. And still won't make MOBAs MMOs in anything but marketing name.
Not even Blizz is making another one. ESO is doing meh business. I doubt EQN is going to be a break out game (but it may).
MMO itself is a marketing name ... so if the original one is not that hot anymore, add in MOBA and it may even "revive" the genre.
Blizzard is investing heavily in one though. Not just that one game, but an entire franchise surrounding the game, just like they did with Warcraft. Destiny is the next generation of Warcraft. MMORPGs aren't going away and they aren't in decline. They are becoming bigger and bigger productions.
One thing that is missing from the MMORPG genre that is there for other genres is the ability of much smaller studios to enter at the ground level. In this regard the MMORPG genre is declining. There are small scale or indie FPS, RPG, MOBA and Adventure games, and they are successful. Not so much with MMORPGs. The closest we can get to this in MMORPGs is Kickstarter backed games, and those are still multi-million dollar projects run by people with a decade or more experience in the industry. We need a change in the development tools available to MMORPG developers that is an order of magnitude beyond what is currently available. I'm not sure that can happen.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
hock to end a lot of the BS practices and mediocre games we see lately.
"mediocre" is subjective. To me, and metacritics, there are lots of good games lately.
RoS, Wolfenstein, Titanfall (which i do not play but rated well anyway), hearthstone ...even Sniper Elite 3. I don't see anything wrong with the game industry. It is producing fun (to me) games in 2013, and 2014 .. and heck, i have not even counted any indie stuff yet.
You're right it is subjective [I never claimed otherwise] and also I was generalizing about game quality. There are some newer games I enjoy although a lot that I do find mediocre/have little interest in playing.
However, I think the main problem with the industry comes down to business models. The fact that companies are no longer willing to simply sell a game or sell an MMO subscription but put cash shops in everything and charge huge prices for unfinished betas. That's what really makes me angry at some of these companies.Many people are willing to put up with this for now because it's still pretty new but I think if a crash does come it's going to be because consumers get sick of some of these shoddy gaming practices.
Not even Blizz is making another one. ESO is doing meh business. I doubt EQN is going to be a break out game (but it may).
MMO itself is a marketing name ... so if the original one is not that hot anymore, add in MOBA and it may even "revive" the genre.
I'd be really happy if the industry crashed to a point where a million subs was once again considered a success. I'm sure we'd see better quality MMOs in that case made by people who actually wanted to make them rather than just chasing dollar signs.
I guess there'd be some job losses which of course sucks but I'm really disillusioned with the way the whole games industry has become and especially the MMO industry . It's too big and bloated and greedy. It needs a shock to end a lot of the BS practices and mediocre games we see lately.
When the video game market crashed in the early 80s, it didn't stop mediocre games or horrible games. It didn't make producing games any less expensive either. It doesn't seem likely that it would make the production of an MMORPG any cheaper. If the cost doesn't change but the market suddenly contracts, why would people spend millions of dollars to enter the market?
Besides, a million subscribers is seen as a success right now. SWTOR would be twice as happy as they are right now if they had a million subscribers instead of a million players. LotRO would probably be really happy with a million subscribers too. Other than WoW, I can't think of an MMORPG that wouldn't be really, really happy with a million subscribers over the million or less F2P people currently populating their games.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
When the video game market crashed in the early 80s, it didn't stop mediocre games or horrible games. It didn't make producing games any less expensive either. It doesn't seem likely that it would make the production of an MMORPG any cheaper. If the cost doesn't change but the market suddenly contracts, why would people spend millions of dollars to enter the market?
Besides, a million subscribers is seen as a success right now. SWTOR would be twice as happy as they are right now if they had a million subscribers instead of a million players. LotRO would probably be really happy with a million subscribers too. Other than WoW, I can't think of an MMORPG that wouldn't be really, really happy with a million subscribers over the million or less F2P people currently populating their games.
My understanding is that games did improve in quality after the early 80s crash at least for a while. I'm also pretty sure that MMOs could be produced a lot cheaper than they are, they just wouldn't have professional actors voice acting them and maybe not quite as nice graphics. To some people that might make them worse games I suppose but I'm more of a gameplay person.
I agree with you that 1 million subs is good for an MMO but to some pundits here "not WoW killer" or "not competing directly with MOBAs" = failure.
Let's build a fictional world and fill it with stuff for people to find and a few things to do.
Well people wanted more things to do and they brought in the scope for a 'full personal experience'.
Console games, single player games, smaller scoped games do this better.
MMOs can raise again if they focused on the people who want to work together and take on something larger than they've ever seen before.
Simple and Short and accurate..
IMO.. I wish MMORPG's would go back to their niche community they once owned.. Gaming companies have really bastardized what MMO are in the chase of the almighty dollar.. As far as I'm concern it is PHYSICALLY impossible to create a game that can harness everything under the sun and sell it to everyone.. PvP and PvE are at opposites sides of the game play spectrum.. You can NOT create a game that focuses on PvE content while keeping balance with PvP classes.. In the same turn you can't have balance PvP without homogenizing PvE into boring blur.. There are certain things that make PvE exciting and fun.. Those things being CHARMING mobs for long periods of time, lengthy mez, kiting, illusions and FD to name a few..
So what devs are trying to give us is a Ford Pinto Limo with 4x4 wheel drive that goes from 0 to 100 in less then 6 seconds, for under $20,000.. But in reality we are dealt a Duck Dynasty duck blind that sits in a tree that only family can appreciate.. lol
As soon as you figure out a reliable way to build an MMORPG cheap enough that a niche community can support it, and will also not nitpick the holy hell out of it, be sure to let someone know.
**
Because there are a lot of little, 2D MMORPGs being put out right now. They don't get many people because even though "niche" players have a minimum expectation that cannot be met on the cheap. There are a few Fallout 2 based MMORPGs out there too, but again, the graphics fall well short of the minimum expectations. Perpetuum is a very well put together "indie" and "niche" game, but not many people play it because of the minimum expectations of the "indie" and "niche" audience.
World of Tanks and League of Legends are VERY niche games.. Eve is considered niche to many.. What were you saying again about profitability?
Are you using "niche" to mean "small" or "targeted audience", because the relevant part here is the size of the audience. WoT and LoL are niche games, but the audience for those games is huge. Same thing for Eve, but the audience isn't nearly as big. Eve has a pretty specific audience, but at the same time that audience is fairly large. Not WoT or LoL large, but it's certainly very large in the context of MMORPGs.
Your suggestion above doesn't say to appeal to a very large audience with very specific tastes. Your post above says to appeal to the original MMORPG audience, which wasn't very large. The size of the audience is going to be a problem. You can't build an MMORPG for three million dollars any longer. Those Kickstarter games that you are getting ready to mention are either being funded with additional millions of dollars from the people developing the games, or they are building tech demos, not games.
Well, you could build an MMORPG for three million dollars, but you would have to scale way back on the graphics. Possibly even going with the isometric view and not a standard third person view. Linkrealms is trying that but they don't seem to be getting whole lot of attention from those "original" MMORPG players. Maybe Das Tal will have better luck.
A MMO with the proper scope would not be a niche game persay, but a true MMORPG.
There are so many games using 'team tactics' as their draw. Shouldn't that be the primary goal for a MMO? MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE persistent world games should make better use of the multiplayer aspect than any other genre of game. But I get more solo content in MMOs now than I do most console games. On console games nearly every one of them, even The Last of Us had awesome team based gameplay that I wish I could get in a MMORPG to an extent.
I dunno. There's money out there to make the game, but I don't think developers and the community understand what the genre is any longer.
Besides, a million subscribers is seen as a success right now. SWTOR would be twice as happy as they are right now if they had a million subscribers instead of a million players. LotRO would probably be really happy with a million subscribers too. Other than WoW, I can't think of an MMORPG that wouldn't be really, really happy with a million subscribers over the million or less F2P people currently populating their games.
Indeed, and that's why you don't have to blame the games for the situation, but the greed of the actual generation who want everything for free. They download movies when once people paid for tapes and DVDs, they read illegal copies of books our generation used to buy in order to reward the author who wrote them. It's all easy when anonymous on the net, hidden behind a computer screen. It doesn't feel like your steal something. Yet, all those people are thieves. Just as much as those who steal a watch in a shop. And that's also why today's online games are full of leeches.
But we keep paying for MMO's I thought that would make the market grow, and improve the games?
I mean movies seem to be doing fine, every year new blockbusters hitting records, budgets increasing all the time, even though people download movies on piratebay, this goes for tv series aswell, just look at game of thrones, bigges budget a tv series has had, and i dont think 2015 series will be cheaper, this goes for music too, unless your metallica or some other napster band, the dj and live performance scene has exploded making artists richer then ever before, books i dont know enough about downloading? I still buy my books at a bookstore.
Besides, a million subscribers is seen as a success right now. SWTOR would be twice as happy as they are right now if they had a million subscribers instead of a million players. LotRO would probably be really happy with a million subscribers too. Other than WoW, I can't think of an MMORPG that wouldn't be really, really happy with a million subscribers over the million or less F2P people currently populating their games.
Indeed, and that's why you don't have to blame the games for the situation, but the greed of the actual generation who want everything for free. They download movies when once people paid for tapes and DVDs, they read illegal copies of books our generation used to buy in order to reward the author who wrote them. It's all easy when anonymous on the net, hidden behind a computer screen. It doesn't feel like your steal something. Yet, all those people are thieves. Just as much as those who steal a watch in a shop. And that's also why today's online games are full of leeches.
But we keep paying for MMO's I thought that would make the market grow, and improve the games?
I mean movies seem to be doing fine, every year new blockbusters hitting records, budgets increasing all the time, even though people download movies on piratebay, this goes for tv series aswell, just look at game of thrones, bigges budget a tv series has had, and i dont think 2015 series will be cheaper, this goes for music too, unless your metallica or some other napster band, the dj and live performance scene has exploded making artists richer then ever before, books i dont know enough about downloading? I still buy my books at a bookstore.
It is much easier to make a film than a game. And prob a lot cheaper too.
I have just recently decided to give up on MMO's for the foreseeable future. Just lost that spark to play them.
Nothing will ever give me that feeling of the first couple of months I had playing SWG back in 2003.
The communities are no where near what they once were. ( my opinion only )
The Devs don't interact with the community like they once did. ( Holding in game events announced & unannounced )
I hate the F2P model and the last MMO that I spent any real time in was SWTOR and they now have the worst model of any I have ever seen. Blocking content from actual subscribers behind an additional cash shop.
Life - I am nearing 40yr now have 3 kids 6yr and under and travel quite a bit for work.
All of these things combined is my reason for the decline of MMO's ...
And yet I always hold out hope for something new that will snare me in it's wonderful web...
Next on that list The Repopulation
I still support the industry and ultimately always pick up the newest releases and try them to no avail.
I dont think so. Good blockbuster movies often cost hundreds of millions of dollars. Average ones and bad ones cost less. Good blockbuster mmorpg games these days are costing hundreds of millions of dollars. Average ones and bad ones are cheaper. Actually I would say the costs now are very comparable.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
I don't think that the mmo market is on a decline, I think that many games are emty because there are alot of mmos out there. I feel that there are many clones of different games but there are also many games with huge differences between them.
I feel more like not everyone is playing wow these days, there are so many good mmos out there for almost every taste except yours then I guess.
Wow is still HUGE after 10 years, I hate the game but it's still a great one and it will never die.
Swtor that was dooomed is growing and also have a huge playerbase.
The list goes on and on with games like GW2, TSW, EVE, ESO, WS, Darkfall, Final fantasy and there are many many more. So I feel more like if the mmo market was on a decline how the hell can all these games exist. Just check the game list on this site and tell me that there are a few more mmos other then EQ and UO these days.
Comments
Even you must see the problem with this kind of 'reasoning.'
Yes .. and MMO .. at least the classical style is out of date, and i am not surprised if it goes the way of the point & click adventure. You do notice that "action adventure" (i.e. games like DMC & Gods of War) took the space of point & click adventure.
Same thing can happen to MMO. So something else will take MMO's market, and its name. I don't see a problem.
Are you using "niche" to mean "small" or "targeted audience", because the relevant part here is the size of the audience. WoT and LoL are niche games, but the audience for those games is huge. Same thing for Eve, but the audience isn't nearly as big. Eve has a pretty specific audience, but at the same time that audience is fairly large. Not WoT or LoL large, but it's certainly very large in the context of MMORPGs.
Your suggestion above doesn't say to appeal to a very large audience with very specific tastes. Your post above says to appeal to the original MMORPG audience, which wasn't very large. The size of the audience is going to be a problem. You can't build an MMORPG for three million dollars any longer. Those Kickstarter games that you are getting ready to mention are either being funded with additional millions of dollars from the people developing the games, or they are building tech demos, not games.
Well, you could build an MMORPG for three million dollars, but you would have to scale way back on the graphics. Possibly even going with the isometric view and not a standard third person view. Linkrealms is trying that but they don't seem to be getting whole lot of attention from those "original" MMORPG players. Maybe Das Tal will have better luck.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
No problem. Just classified MOBAs as MMOs (as many industrial research sites), and MMO will suddenly look much better.
This is about the death of a style of gameplay. Adventure games died because they were not appealing to enough of the market, the same has happened to MMOs. What MMOs have become may well not appeal to enough of the market, and current 'MMOs' will die as well. MOBA's and other games like them may inherit the space that MMOs once held. Once a genre moves far enough from the mainstream it effectively dies, before you mention Sherlock Holmes again Nari, Adventure games need to be mainstream to be considered a vibrant genre, the days of Monkey Island are gone.
None of this is about making the best games you will notice, it is all about appealing to the maximum numbers of punters as possible, any genre that cannot do that is destined for the dustbin.
Yes .. and MMO .. at least the classical style is out of date, and i am not surprised if it goes the way of the point & click adventure. You do notice that "action adventure" (i.e. games like DMC & Gods of War) took the space of point & click adventure.
Same thing can happen to MMO. So something else will take MMO's market, and its name. I don't see a problem.
Meh, I doubt traditional MMOs (that is, persistent massively multiplayer universes) are going the way of the dodo. It'll probably revert back to the market share it enjoyed before WoW, which won't bother those who are still interested in the genre by that time. And still won't make MOBAs MMOs in anything but marketing name.You see elements of the old school point and click adventures in modern games, although the puzzles aren't obscure and as difficult as the old monkey islands games. You still combine items, solve puzzles pick up objects talk to NPC's and use them to solve a puzzle, open a door or progress the story. RPGs are full of point and click elements and so are survival horror games.
Elements of other genres have already entered MMOs with mixed results. However MMOs have a problem that is difficult to resolve. The question of whether it should be a game first or a virtual world first and a game secondly is one that even consumers are unsure of. The more game elements that appear in an MMO the shallower and less immersive the experience is, but the fewer game elements there are the less there is to do. No developer has ever seem to be able to strike a balance between gameplay and immersion.
"Why "MMO's" are in a steady decline" ?
i tell you why: same shit with different names
Not even Blizz is making another one. ESO is doing meh business. I doubt EQN is going to be a break out game (but it may).
MMO itself is a marketing name ... so if the original one is not that hot anymore, add in MOBA and it may even "revive" the genre.
I'd be really happy if the industry crashed to a point where a million subs was once again considered a success. I'm sure we'd see better quality MMOs in that case made by people who actually wanted to make them rather than just chasing dollar signs.
I guess there'd be some job losses which of course sucks but I'm really disillusioned with the way the whole games industry has become and especially the MMO industry . It's too big and bloated and greedy. It needs a shock to end a lot of the BS practices and mediocre games we see lately.
"mediocre" is subjective. To me, and metacritics, there are lots of good games lately.
RoS, Wolfenstein, Titanfall (which i do not play but rated well anyway), hearthstone ...even Sniper Elite 3. I don't see anything wrong with the game industry. It is producing fun (to me) games in 2013, and 2014 .. and heck, i have not even counted any indie stuff yet.
Well said. I'll always remember games like UO fondly, but I have no shortage of games that I enjoy.
There's a ton of MMOs (and other games) that I still need to catch up on, and I've been having some casual fun with Hearthstone as well, now that I've finally tried it after reading some of your posts about it a while back (thanks!).
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Blizzard is investing heavily in one though. Not just that one game, but an entire franchise surrounding the game, just like they did with Warcraft. Destiny is the next generation of Warcraft. MMORPGs aren't going away and they aren't in decline. They are becoming bigger and bigger productions.
One thing that is missing from the MMORPG genre that is there for other genres is the ability of much smaller studios to enter at the ground level. In this regard the MMORPG genre is declining. There are small scale or indie FPS, RPG, MOBA and Adventure games, and they are successful. Not so much with MMORPGs. The closest we can get to this in MMORPGs is Kickstarter backed games, and those are still multi-million dollar projects run by people with a decade or more experience in the industry. We need a change in the development tools available to MMORPG developers that is an order of magnitude beyond what is currently available. I'm not sure that can happen.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
You're right it is subjective [I never claimed otherwise] and also I was generalizing about game quality. There are some newer games I enjoy although a lot that I do find mediocre/have little interest in playing.
However, I think the main problem with the industry comes down to business models. The fact that companies are no longer willing to simply sell a game or sell an MMO subscription but put cash shops in everything and charge huge prices for unfinished betas. That's what really makes me angry at some of these companies.Many people are willing to put up with this for now because it's still pretty new but I think if a crash does come it's going to be because consumers get sick of some of these shoddy gaming practices.
MMORPG = Many Men Online Role Playing Girls
/giggles
When the video game market crashed in the early 80s, it didn't stop mediocre games or horrible games. It didn't make producing games any less expensive either. It doesn't seem likely that it would make the production of an MMORPG any cheaper. If the cost doesn't change but the market suddenly contracts, why would people spend millions of dollars to enter the market?Besides, a million subscribers is seen as a success right now. SWTOR would be twice as happy as they are right now if they had a million subscribers instead of a million players. LotRO would probably be really happy with a million subscribers too. Other than WoW, I can't think of an MMORPG that wouldn't be really, really happy with a million subscribers over the million or less F2P people currently populating their games.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
My understanding is that games did improve in quality after the early 80s crash at least for a while. I'm also pretty sure that MMOs could be produced a lot cheaper than they are, they just wouldn't have professional actors voice acting them and maybe not quite as nice graphics. To some people that might make them worse games I suppose but I'm more of a gameplay person.
I agree with you that 1 million subs is good for an MMO but to some pundits here "not WoW killer" or "not competing directly with MOBAs" = failure.
A MMO with the proper scope would not be a niche game persay, but a true MMORPG.
There are so many games using 'team tactics' as their draw. Shouldn't that be the primary goal for a MMO? MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE persistent world games should make better use of the multiplayer aspect than any other genre of game. But I get more solo content in MMOs now than I do most console games. On console games nearly every one of them, even The Last of Us had awesome team based gameplay that I wish I could get in a MMORPG to an extent.
I dunno. There's money out there to make the game, but I don't think developers and the community understand what the genre is any longer.
a yo ho ho
Those two thoughts imo have absolutely no reasonto each other
But we keep paying for MMO's I thought that would make the market grow, and improve the games?
I mean movies seem to be doing fine, every year new blockbusters hitting records, budgets increasing all the time, even though people download movies on piratebay, this goes for tv series aswell, just look at game of thrones, bigges budget a tv series has had, and i dont think 2015 series will be cheaper, this goes for music too, unless your metallica or some other napster band, the dj and live performance scene has exploded making artists richer then ever before, books i dont know enough about downloading? I still buy my books at a bookstore.
Herald of innovation, Vanquisher of the old! - Awake a few hours almost everyday!
It is much easier to make a film than a game. And prob a lot cheaper too.
For me personally I blame LIFE.
I have just recently decided to give up on MMO's for the foreseeable future. Just lost that spark to play them.
Nothing will ever give me that feeling of the first couple of months I had playing SWG back in 2003.
The communities are no where near what they once were. ( my opinion only )
The Devs don't interact with the community like they once did. ( Holding in game events announced & unannounced )
I hate the F2P model and the last MMO that I spent any real time in was SWTOR and they now have the worst model of any I have ever seen. Blocking content from actual subscribers behind an additional cash shop.
Life - I am nearing 40yr now have 3 kids 6yr and under and travel quite a bit for work.
All of these things combined is my reason for the decline of MMO's ...
And yet I always hold out hope for something new that will snare me in it's wonderful web...
Next on that list The Repopulation
I still support the industry and ultimately always pick up the newest releases and try them to no avail.
The Secret World - 1 month
ESO - 1 month
WS - 1 month
SWTOR - 1 1/2 yr ( mainly b/c it's Star Wars)
I don't think that the mmo market is on a decline, I think that many games are emty because there are alot of mmos out there. I feel that there are many clones of different games but there are also many games with huge differences between them.
I feel more like not everyone is playing wow these days, there are so many good mmos out there for almost every taste except yours then I guess.
Wow is still HUGE after 10 years, I hate the game but it's still a great one and it will never die.
Swtor that was dooomed is growing and also have a huge playerbase.
The list goes on and on with games like GW2, TSW, EVE, ESO, WS, Darkfall, Final fantasy and there are many many more. So I feel more like if the mmo market was on a decline how the hell can all these games exist. Just check the game list on this site and tell me that there are a few more mmos other then EQ and UO these days.
Isn't H1Z1 pretty much promising exactly everything the OP is asking for?