what kills eve online for you.

Yalexy

Started playing in late 2004 and stopped playin gin early 2011. Somewhere around 7 years spend, mostly in 0.0 and mainly PvP.

In the beginning EvE was epic. We had fleets of some 50-100 ships max and nothing more than battleships. Hauling shit into and out of 0.0 took large fleets to protect the haulers and later freighters, and it took lot's of time and efforts to build an empire in 0.0.

What killed EvE over the time was, that it was getting easier and easier to control large chunks of space. First the carriers and dreads, then the mothers and titans and the final nail in the coffin was the dreaded jump-freighters and jump-generators.

It also didn't help that 0.0 got spammed with stations that are indestructible.

EvE is still a great game, but only if you're happy with small-scale hit and run roaming, not owning any space yourself.
If you have a couple of really good buddies to roam around with in frigs or cruisers, then EvE is still alot of fun, but unfortunately that doesn't satisfy me enough to keep playing.

Anyways... it was the best seven years of playing a MMO for me, and no other MMO will ever come close to it.

PsYcHoGBR

Originally posted by Ianb4all

Originally posted by BadSpock

What kills EVE for me is:

-the "balance" between ship classes/sizes:

i.e. frigates will do zero damage to anything bigger than a cruiser, and anything bigger than a destroyer has to rely on drones to fight frigates - it's stupid. The RPG/MMO rules and progression of the game kill the immersion and FUN.

-lack of free flight:

I'm not talking about a joystick etc. flight model, I'm talking about how the game world is broken up into thousands of separate instances, and you only jump between them via stargates - no different than say GW2 and the portals between zones. I want the space in between stars to hide, to plot faster-than-light courses around black holes and curving around the gravity wells of red stars. I want to sneak smuggled goods through planetary blockades by warping into the system from between the twin stars and dropping out of FTL mere kilometers from the atmosphere... you know, REAL sci-fi stuff.

You fix/change those two things, you have an ENTIRELY different, and better game IMO.

Games like Star Citizen and Elite: Dangerous are promising a more open galaxy to explore, trade, and conquer - but I don't want a flight-stick starfighter simulation - I want to command the crew of a large frigate/cruiser/freighter etc. in an open galaxy.

No Star Wars or Star Trek game has come close to this yet either. 

The sci-fi nerd in me would play such a game until the end of my days, and I'd pay a hefty price and monthly fee willingly to do so.

A MMO in the lines of "Freelancer" would make me drool till the end days...I loved that game - you had your normal routes then you had all the pirate factions and their "secret " jump gates and wormholes to other areas so you could smuggle contraband! as well as free flight - I spent  months playing that game till every square inch of every solar system was explored- I amassed such a tremendous amount of wealth- brought all the types of ships I could -found every single secret wreck that had all those "special" weapons- unlocked all the rare ships as well!

 

Imagine a mmo on the scale of eve online like freelancer with updated graphics and such.... it is the mmo sci fi space based game I have been dreaming of and waiting for  and yet noone has come close to even making it!!!!

 

You might want to look at Elite Dangerous.

 

http://www.elitedangerous.com/

 

Eridanix

Nothing kills EVE for me; it could be better, of course, much better but with a lot of effot I'm achieving things I'm proud of.

Of course I would add the forementioned Brutal Sound System, that BOOOM!!! you when you are using or near batlles; I woudl make cap ships and the mega ships slower, but not much, only a little bit, and when it comes to mind and the game is in good wealth itself I would, if I was a CCP exec to buy CryEngine licese and build an Incarna II with a lot of features and social activities and bizarre ones, and add with that same engine a land shooter conected to the EVE plot. 

That's not impossible to do; CCP have wits; leave Carbon alone guys, its a good advice, buy a license for CryEngine and develope an unbeteable game in all fronts. 

In the meanwhile, I'm happy in EVE. I'm a busy person and cannot be playing 12 hours a day to be equal to people who does nothing in life but to level. I think EVE is a game that is in part designede for people who has a life and obligations and that we are able to understand things, so as we have problems too and everything that people playing simple grinders cannot understand. 

So that, my advice as my work consist on take decisions, I will work for free now to give CCP a good one: CryEngine license. Take your time on doing things, people will not let EVE alone and create Incarna II and a massive well-designed shooter that is in real time with the rest of EVE. Incarna II shall be a kind of bizarre thing with a lot of freedom and creatiity and remember, people in CryEngine will help you 24/7 if you want it to allow you to build the game you want to do. 

Nothing more and nothing less. That will happen because time is running in our favor. 

With all its flaws, EVE is what it is, and I'm happy there. 

 

Loktofeit

Originally posted by BadSpock

What kills EVE for me is:

-the "balance" between ship classes/sizes:

i.e. frigates will do zero damage to anything bigger than a cruiser, and anything bigger than a destroyer has to rely on drones to fight frigates - it's stupid. The RPG/MMO rules and progression of the game kill the immersion and FUN.

 

In a frigate vs bigger-than-cruiser scenario, you should be tackling, not attacking. Let your team's bigger guns fight the battlecruiser or whatever.

That's a major difference between EVE Online and most other MMOs. That frigate you flew and the ore you mined in your first week have use and value throughout the game, even to veteran players. In most other MMOs, they'd be useless after the first day. EVE actually deviates from RPG/MMO rules and progression significantly in that regard.

 

Bladestrom

Lol I didn't appreciate you could jump mega fleets about easily - what idiot thought that would lead to good strategic play, that's going to screw up any game.

mgilbrtsn

To be honest, I don't even get past the tutorial.  It all seems a bit unintuitive to me.  Simply put, I'm to lazy to put in the time to figure it all out.

LeGrosGamerV2

The "waiting game" combat style, the outnumbering, the bragging and trash talking because a fleet of 500 took down a gang of 3.  EVE-Online used to be mature, but now only filled with kids that only care about kill boards.   I used to be a 7 year EVE vet, stopped playing completely on 2010 and never looked back since.    Quite a shame, because EVE is the best MMO out there even as we speak, but the community makes it one of  the worst MMO's.   

Talonsin

I don’t think it is any one thing.  My list would be:

1. It attracts some of the worst people the gaming community has to offer.

2. High security space is more dangerous than Null-security space. 

3. Large coalitions own low-sec and it is extremely hard to get enough people together to try and carve out a piece of it for yourself.  It is much easier to just rent from the big guys and be a puppet.

4. Null is boring, I have mined there for years and never been attacked.  Go to an ice field in high and watch all the miners get popped

5. It takes forever to do anything in the game.  Fleet is called at 8:00pm, wait for 30 minutes to have enough people, spent 15 minutes jumping a few gates, wait while scout checks next system, wait for this, wait for that.  It is very hard to just jump in and play for 30 minutes and get anything done.  As an older person with a job and family, I cant devote hours per evening to a game.

6. There is no such thing as a fair fight.  Most fights are blobs and he with the biggest wins.

 

For me it comes down to the game requiring too much of my time to do anything and having to deal with people of the lowest possible moral code.  Why pay money for that? 

Kyleran

Originally posted by Bladestrom
Lol I didn't appreciate you could jump mega fleets about easily - what idiot thought that would lead to good strategic play, that's going to screw up any game.

Easily?  You ever been part of a large fleet action, easily is not a word I would associate with it.

Originally posted by LeGrosGamerV2
The "waiting game" combat style, the outnumbering, the bragging and trash talking because a fleet of 500 took down a gang of 3.  EVE-Online used to be mature, but now only filled with kids that only care about kill boards.   I used to be a 7 year EVE vet, stopped playing completely on 2010 and never looked back since.    Quite a shame, because EVE is the best MMO out there even as we speak, but the community makes it one of  the worst MMO's.   

So you haven't played in over 4 years?  Maybe you have no idea what EVE is really like today?

Some of what you say is true, however as you said, it is still one of the best MMO's out there regardless and you are only depriving yourself by not playing it.

 

 

Kyleran

Originally posted by Talonsin

I don’t think it is any one thing.  My list would be:

1. It attracts some of the worst people the gaming community has to offer. 

It also attracts some of the best, chose your friends wisely.

2. High security space is more dangerous than Null-security space. 

At times, yes, but in my two months back no one's killed me yet, despite being through three war decs and a couple of suicide gank attempts.

3. Large coalitions own low-sec and it is extremely hard to get enough people together to try and carve out a piece of it for yourself.  It is much easier to just rent from the big guys and be a puppet.

I think you mean null sec, however my current alliance is preparing to carve out a space for themselves in low sec, should be an interesting experiment. Bet it won't be dull.  No need to be a puppet unless you want to be.

4. Null is boring, I have mined there for years and never been attacked.  Go to an ice field in high and watch all the miners get popped.

Lucky you, can't say the same, lost a number of ships out there, more than I ever have in high sec and miners who get popped in high sec ice fields are doing it wrong, Procurers and Skiffs, not Hulks and Retrievers folks.

5. It takes forever to do anything in the game.  Fleet is called at 8:00pm, wait for 30 minutes to have enough people, spent 15 minutes jumping a few gates, wait while scout checks next system, wait for this, wait for that.  It is very hard to just jump in and play for 30 minutes and get anything done.  As an older person with a job and family, I cant devote hours per evening to a game.

Now this I can completely agree with, also one of my greatest frustrations is not being able to devote the time it takes to really join the big fleet actions, stupid day job.

6. There is no such thing as a fair fight.  Most fights are blobs and he with the biggest wins.

 If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you are definitely doing it wrong. - EVE is a war, not a sport, so there can only be one acceptable outcome, total annilaltion of your opponent, with minimal losses to your side.

For me it comes down to the game requiring too much of my time to do anything and having to deal with people of the lowest possible moral code.  Why pay money for that? 

Fair enough reasons though, understand why they aggravate you and keep you from playing, some of them tend to drive me from the game periodically, mostly number 5.

 

Roguewiz

Originally posted by zzax

Combat is what kills eve online for me.

Its the best and most polished mmo I have ever played. Everything about this game is perfect, yet I still dont play it because of the slow and mind numbing combat.

Pretty much sums it up for me.  I like the concept, features, and customization; abhor the tediousness and the combat.

SoaringBarnacle

Originally posted by Kyleran

 If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you are definitely doing it wrong. - EVE is a war, not a sport, so there can only be one acceptable outcome, total annilaltion of your opponent, with minimal losses to your side.

 

 

That's the most retarded of argument used by gankbears: they say people need to chill out and not rage when they get ganked because that's "only a game", while justifying absolutely unbalanced engagements by stating "hurr durr  in war everything goes".

So, is it a game or a hate and rage simulator in which you minimize your potential rage and maximize your opponents' ?

Also, which kind of game pushes people into seeing it as zero-sum, i.e., you only have fun if your opponent doesn't ?

I swear I see more humanity, care for others and psychological coherence when clubbing on absurd minimal techno amongst shirtless gays all high and wired on a dozen type of drugs.

DKLond

I love the overarching sandbox design, but I despise the moment-to-moment gameplay and massive lack of meaningful exploration. Pointing and clicking is not my idea of flying in an immersive space game - and having such a limited visual variety in terms of areas and space stations/cities severely hurts the kind of attention I'm willing to invest.

So, I sort of love the concept but I despise the implementation.

Loktofeit

Originally posted by SoaringBarnacle

Originally posted by Kyleran

 If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you are definitely doing it wrong. - EVE is a war, not a sport, so there can only be one acceptable outcome, total annilaltion of your opponent, with minimal losses to your side.

That's the most retarded of argument used by gankbears: they say people need to chill out and not rage when they get ganked because that's "only a game", while justifying absolutely unbalanced engagements by stating "hurr durr  in war everything goes".

So, is it a game or a hate and rage simulator in which you minimize your potential rage and maximize your opponents' ?

Also, which kind of game pushes people into seeing it as zero-sum, i.e., you only have fun if your opponent doesn't ?

I swear I see more humanity, care for others and psychological coherence when clubbing on absurd minimal techno amongst shirtless gays all high and wired on a dozen type of drugs.

 

This post fills me with wonder.

 

The first paragraph has me wondering if you'd be able to play RISK or Monopoly without risking severe psychological damage to yourself. 

The two questions have me wondering if you've played ANY competitive board game made before the turn of the century.

The last paragraph has me wondering if we used to frequent the same nightclubs, because you described pretty much any given night at the Limelight or the Palladium back in the 80's.

 

StarI

Archeage killed it for me at the moment.

Tho I'll probably go back to it once (if) I'm done with AA.

itchmon

i guerss nothing killed it for me because I still play it, but my biggest complaint about eve is that the Devs often will add a new system instead of fixing and deepening an existing (and only partly-done) system.

 

See also WiS, Planetary interaction, tech3

 

 

SoaringBarnacle

Originally posted by Loktofeit

This post fills me with wonder.

 

The first paragraph has me wondering if you'd be able to play RISK or Monopoly without risking severe psychological damage to yourself. 

The two questions have me wondering if you've played ANY competitive board game made before the turn of the century.

The last paragraph has me wondering if we used to frequent the same nightclubs, because you described pretty much any given night at the Limelight or the Palladium back in the 80's.

 

 

1) When you play a board game with other people, there is a tacit agreement that people are going to play relatively nice, and at least no go overboard in aggressive gameplay, so that everybody can have good clean fun. Otherwise, there is a risk not to be reinvited to the next session, as you get labeled as a no-fun type, or you might even get forcibly removed if you deliberately sabotage other people´s enjoyment, such as gankers do. They do it in EvE because there is no players' vote to exclude toxic participants, and those don't put their social reputation at risk.

Also the Risk / Monopoly or frequent FPS comparison with EvE is beyond stupid, as the time investment loss is negligible if not non-existent in those games, whereas in EvE griefers will go extreme length and preparation to make you lose months if not years of time investment.

 

2) Competition is for sports, or horses. Games are made to share a good time with others, and have fun together. However I can understand how people who do not cut it physically or intellectually devolve their free time to find every borderline exploit, grey area, or unregulated rule of engagement in an online video game, which is by definition filled with them, and indulge in all of it to the extreme to get a false sense of superiority out of their cheesing of mechanics.

 

3) Berghain this weekend. While it's supposed to be a temple of degeneracy, it's like a polar opposite of the EvE vibe, which is supposed to be a game, i.e. a group activity aimed at making people feel good, but which actually produces the opposite, a community of trolls, griefers, toxicity in which the general spirit is "if your opponent has fun, you're doing it wrong".

 

Also, care to try and answer the questions asked?

Phry

Originally posted by Loktofeit

Originally posted by SoaringBarnacle

Originally posted by Kyleran

 If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you are definitely doing it wrong. - EVE is a war, not a sport, so there can only be one acceptable outcome, total annilaltion of your opponent, with minimal losses to your side.

That's the most retarded of argument used by gankbears: they say people need to chill out and not rage when they get ganked because that's "only a game", while justifying absolutely unbalanced engagements by stating "hurr durr  in war everything goes".

So, is it a game or a hate and rage simulator in which you minimize your potential rage and maximize your opponents' ?

Also, which kind of game pushes people into seeing it as zero-sum, i.e., you only have fun if your opponent doesn't ?

I swear I see more humanity, care for others and psychological coherence when clubbing on absurd minimal techno amongst shirtless gays all high and wired on a dozen type of drugs.

 

This post fills me with wonder.

 

The first paragraph has me wondering if you'd be able to play RISK or Monopoly without risking severe psychological damage to yourself. 

The two questions have me wondering if you've played ANY competitive board game made before the turn of the century.

The last paragraph has me wondering if we used to frequent the same nightclubs, because you described pretty much any given night at the Limelight or the Palladium back in the 80's.

 

And he probably thinks tiddlywinks is too aggressive, and that you should be allowed to put them in by hand if you miss the cup, because you know, it just wouldn't be fair otherwise would it

fivoroth

There are too many things that I dislike about the game.

No interesting world to explore, being constantly in space is boring. Boring to explore and I am freaking ship.

Combat is boring. I appreciate is more about preparation than the actual combat but meh. Not enough action. Feels like one of the spreadsheets I use at work. BOoooooring.

Actually there are not that many things after all.

 

Loktofeit

Originally posted by SoaringBarnacle

Also, care to try and answer the questions asked?

Not really. You've already made up your mind. 

SoaringBarnacle

Then we'll have to agree that EvE can be fairly understood as a grief-centric game

Kyleran

Originally posted by SoaringBarnacle

Originally posted by Kyleran

 If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, you are definitely doing it wrong. - EVE is a war, not a sport, so there can only be one acceptable outcome, total annilaltion of your opponent, with minimal losses to your side.

 

 

That's the most retarded of argument used by gankbears: they say people need to chill out and not rage when they get ganked because that's "only a game", while justifying absolutely unbalanced engagements by stating "hurr durr  in war everything goes".

First, I am a carebear, my kill board stats clearly reflect this, though partly that's because I tend to fly a lot of logistics which don't get kill credits.  I have only been unexpectedly ganked one time in 5 years of playing, however I have lost ships when flying as part of either organized combat operations or when I was trying to sneak my way though low or null sec.  But I do believe that when I'm involved in combat, anything goes, when I fight I am not looking to give my opponents a sporting chance, nor do I expect any quarter from them either.

So, is it a game or a hate and rage simulator in which you minimize your potential rage and maximize your opponents' ?

It is a  war time simulator, very much like a naval simulation really, where logistics and planning are sometimes more important than actual firepower or raw numbers.  Where in the world do you come up with the idea that we fight just to aggravate our opponents?  Sure, we gloat over their losses, but suck it up when we're on the losing end, but at the end of the day we're fighting to win, not worry about anyone's emotional state.

Also, which kind of game pushes people into seeing it as zero-sum, i.e., you only have fun if your opponent doesn't ?

Pretty much every game or sport out there is zero sum, there is one winner, and one loser, and no one ever enjoys playing a game they always lose.  (ask the Tampa Bay Buccaneers how "fun" their season is turning out to be right now at 0-3)

But EVE is more than just a game.  The ships I fly represent a significant investment in game time and can be actually equated to real time cash, mine run in the $5-10 range, but the better ones easily are worth $75-90 worth of cash money if you measure it by ISK cost.

With real stakes on the table, I'm not interested in giving anyone a sporting chance, I want to bring my investment home in one piece, and loot the remains of theirs.

I enjoy playing MMORPG's like EVE, I do not have "fun", that's an entirely different thing (look it up) so I only care if my opponents die on the battlefield, their "fun" is not my concern.

I swear I see more humanity, care for others and psychological coherence when clubbing on absurd minimal techno amongst shirtless gays all high and wired on a dozen type of drugs.

You only see what you choose to see.  I play EVE, I've seen great and terrible things from players, but its clear you don't have a clue what it's really about.

SoaringBarnacle

Your detailed description of why and how you play EvE gives a clear explanation concerning the people who play this game, and their mindset, which you clearly are blissfully unaware of, bathing in its toxicity.

War-time simulator lol you guys need to seriously check yourselves before you break yourselves

Loktofeit

Originally posted by SoaringBarnacle

Your detailed description of why and how you play EvE gives a clear explanation concerning the people who play this game, and their mindset, which you clearly are blissfully unaware of, bathing in its toxicity.

War-time simulator lol you guys need to seriously check yourselves before you break yourselves

It's "wreck", sir. "Check yourselves before you wreck yourselves." 

 

Here, this might help: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_sFO6b1jD4

 

No need to thank me. Just enjoy the Ice Cube flow, yo. 

 

 

SoaringBarnacle

Ha, the old internet culture of dodging issues by derailing or concentrating on irrelevant details

What kills EvE for me is the grief-centric, killboard-revering, Schadenfreude-based, online psychopathic culture, also the alt usage which forces you to invest in them if you want to fly solo or weigh anything in any corp or alliance, and let's not forget the RMT going on behind the scenes which turns 0.0 drones into RL cash harvesters for the leader(s) of the alliance they fight for.

As the dude with the hilarious cat macro said there's a monetary element involved, and the sooner it is officially accepted and condoned by the community and CCP the sooner this game can realize its full potential: a vicious simulation of dudes scamming and destroying each other's investment with internet spaceships as a paint job.