my friend and i were talking about this. we have both been playing mmos since UO and the one thing we keep coming back to is the community. now days you get trolls and pvp hungry people compaired to the helpful fun community of the past. We have tried every mmo as of late even AA and they all revolve around pay walls, and people form other factions going out of their way to ruin gameplay for others who are lower level (rift). To those who think they can make up their crummy raiding skills by challenging you to a 1v1 on CoD.
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Give me some flak if you like but how many of you have not been truly happy with an mmo in ages. I really think that for a lot of folks round here it is simply time to just get onto something new or possibly time to throw the towel in with MMOs altogether. I honestly don't think ESO / AA and many others are that bad at all. I will admit im not playing them but ive been playing MMOs for a fair time too and am burnt out.
All I see about games recently released is bad hate. I mean come on i see people on here barking on about ultima and games that are like from 14 / 15 years ago. Surely to god 15 years is a long enough stint with 1 genre.... no?
No! Don't you give up on me!!
I'm staying here, you hear me?!
I'll never leave your side!
I'm staying right here!
We're going to see this through! Together! You hear me?! TOGETHER!
Originally posted by DonY81 Give me some flak if you like but how many of you have not been truly happy with an mmo in ages. I really think that for a lot of folks round here it is simply time to just get onto something new or possibly time to throw the towel in with MMOs altogether. I honestly don't think ESO / AA and many others are that bad at all. I will admit im not playing them but ive been playing MMOs for a fair time too and am burnt out.All I see about games recently released is bad hate. I mean come on i see people on here barking on about ultima and games that are like from 14 / 15 years ago. Surely to god 15 years is a long enough stint with 1 genre.... no?
No! Don't you give up on me!!
I'm staying here, you hear me?!
I'll never leave your side!
I'm staying right here!
We're going to see this through! Together! You hear me?! TOGETHER!
lols thanks for the laugh
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
The newer players now are looking for "entertainment only" and anything that does not go right the first time, is a waste of their precious time. They can not understand that that in order to get immersed, like many of us used to do, there needs to be good AND bad times. Life is not one rosy experience after another.
nah .. what you don't understand is that "immersion" is not it cracks up to be, and others can choose "fun" (by their subjective definition) over immersion. Heck, many chose convenience over immersion .. otherwise, why is LFD/LFR, and lobby games so popular?
And bad time in entertainment? Please ... games are not life. Games are entertainment product, at least to me.
Interesting we both kinda noticed the same thing at the same time.
I just feel there is more to it than just burn out.
I've always said video games effect the brain the same way narcotics does.
They create endorphins which in turn effect serotonin levels.
They are addictive just like a narcotic.
I think what we are feeling and seeing are the results of years of video game addiction coming to a head.
The brain is working just the same way it does in a drug addict, you constantly need a bigger and bigger fix to get that serotonin release, and the problem is video games have nowhere to go.
Video games can't really increase the fix, so our brains and bodies are freaking out just like they do in a drug addict that can not get the fix they need.
That was pretty deep Psilic but interesting.
Ya, he is right in a way. It's like being an alcoholic, you start out with one or two to get that happy feeling, then you become more immune and have to drink more for the same feeling. Games can be the same way I suppose.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
I would love to quit my gaming addiction, and I really do try, its just hard to find a substitute, life does not really offer any alternative entertainment.
My life looks something like this; I work at a job during the day.
When I have free time I try to exercise or learn something/read.
After that there is a void, I try to fill that void with entertainment, like movies, series or games.
I've seen almost every anime and series available, even the 600episode stuff. I've seen about every movie thats interested me made the last 30 years.. I go to the theatre and sometimes I even go see musicals.. Still there is that void, what do you suggest i fill that void with, if not grinding a mmo? real drugs?
Why try to give it up if you enjoy it? Gaming is no more of a waste of time than the other hobbies you listed (except maybe reading depending on what you read.) No need to feel ashamed of doing it.
I hope you are using addiction in a very loose sense though. I hate when people minimize real chemical dependancy problems by using the term "addiction" for everything they may enjoy a lot and spend maybe too much time on.
I think the comparison to drug addiction is quite appropriate, many years ago I was a serious raiser in WOW, and slowly over time it created up to 5 nights a week, I told myself this was ok, I deserved my release from day to day and deluded myself that my wife and kids were unaffected, even though I could see they were. After a big arguement with my wife I realised things had gone far enough and forced myself to quit wow. for the next year I had what can only be described as withdrawal symptoms, other games felt dull, I dreamed of playing wow again etc etc, but eventually I started to enjoy other games, I no longer obsessed with being top of class on server or felt angry or as if I was 'fallIng' behind if I stopped playing for a bit - gaming became fun again.
I Came to realise that the competitive gear style of MMO (constant increase in gear power) is an incredibly decisive and addictive system, and games like Wow have refined it with a faster and faster rate of increased rewards (hits of gear upgrades) to feed the addiction.
Personally I now love games like GW2 because of the power based progression and the community I am in reflects this, guild chat is relaxed, and we play a lot of content for fun (all rewards are useful and contribute towards legendaries).
I feel fortunate that I broke the power addiction, and I'm still married
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
There is nothing wrong with being critical about MMos or games in general, the issue comes when people can't accept any game and view all games as an abomination. There are some MMOs out there I feel are just bad on far too many levels for me to like playing at all (GW2 and ESO come to mind in terms of AAA titles) though they even they have their own few elements I feel that can be good.
Personally I enjoy WIldstar a lot for its great combat system and over-all challenge it presents, though that doesn't stop me from feeling that it can make itself too tedious at parts, and feel that parts of the leveling experience can get stale due to lack of choice. Despite it i enjoy the game a lot as a recent example.
I do know though there are people out there some people do seem to be displeased with anything that is mentioned, bashing it down. A lot of the hate though tends to be from players who love to death one game and try bashing down anything they view as a threat. Hypocrites seem to be the most common person around, quick to bash a game and throw in bull "facts" to both defend their own game (aka the same type of marketting companies use to sell a game without much merit to it) and bash at the other game (such as the common "THe game is dead" and the like threads). Those types seem more common then those who don't seem to find much happiness with any MMO out there.
Interesting we both kinda noticed the same thing at the same time.
I just feel there is more to it than just burn out.
I've always said video games effect the brain the same way narcotics does.
They create endorphins which in turn effect serotonin levels.
They are addictive just like a narcotic.
I think what we are feeling and seeing are the results of years of video game addiction coming to a head.
The brain is working just the same way it does in a drug addict, you constantly need a bigger and bigger fix to get that serotonin release, and the problem is video games have nowhere to go.
Video games can't really increase the fix, so our brains and bodies are freaking out just like they do in a drug addict that can not get the fix they need.
This logic would only apply to those who are truly addicted, which studies have shown to be around less than 2% of the playerbase. Therefore, those who are not addicted, but are simply unhappy with the direction MMOs have gone in, are just that, unhappy with the direction MMOs have gone in.
Just like everything in pop culture styles will come and go, and eventually come back around again in a slightly altered version. Unfortunately for those who enjoyed MMOs from 10-15 years ago, they may have outgrown gaming altogether by the time in rolls around again.
Interesting we both kinda noticed the same thing at the same time.
I just feel there is more to it than just burn out.
I've always said video games effect the brain the same way narcotics does.
They create endorphins which in turn effect serotonin levels.
They are addictive just like a narcotic.
I think what we are feeling and seeing are the results of years of video game addiction coming to a head.
The brain is working just the same way it does in a drug addict, you constantly need a bigger and bigger fix to get that serotonin release, and the problem is video games have nowhere to go.
Video games can't really increase the fix, so our brains and bodies are freaking out just like they do in a drug addict that can not get the fix they need.
No, wrong its not he same in anyway at all , imo , and i have pretty dam good experience with both ..
For most people its just entertainment , much like watching TV or reading a book or go to a movie....
The hate is because the genre hasn't moved forward very much in 15 years. Every new game has been hyped to the max. Players are STILL naive enough to fall in love with a game by trailer-tasters and carefully worded comments from the devs.
Players just never learn - what the companies will finally release will be in no way significantly different from every mmo that has been released in the last 15 years. All they do is make the graphics prettier and stick a few more vanity items into the game to make the rubes think they are uber.
Originally posted by Grunty That's it folks. You've all been fired. Turn off your computers and go play Yahtzee.
Pssshhh. Yahtzee caters to the casual, instant gratification crowd and has poor socializing tools. How lame is that? Boardgames, card games and dice games are on a steady decline!
Bahahaha
@ OP I can always find something in the MMORPG landscape to enjoy.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The hate is because the genre hasn't moved forward very much in 15 years. Every new game has been hyped to the max. Players are STILL naive enough to fall in love with a game by trailer-tasters and carefully worded comments from the devs.
Players just never learn - what the companies will finally release will be in no way significantly different from every mmo that has been released in the last 15 years. All they do is make the graphics prettier and stick a few more vanity items into the game to make the rubes think they are uber.
WHy do we blame "hype"? it's marketing.... That has never made sense to me. WHo is naive enough to be led that astray?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
The curious hype-meter of mmorpg.com actually suggests some interesting titles and diversity. I'd say all these show interest eg the token Eastern Effort with AA, the TPS, the space-sim MO-, the voxel-terraforming, story bricks big pub, the RvRvR reboot, the indie tiny budget who could and the fantasy FP-action combat low fantasy...
It's not bad at all... after a 10 year drought. What's good is that it's hopefully going to fragment the market more instead of the One MMO To Rule Them All.
The main criticism of the last 10 year mmorpgs is for me: NARROW CHOICES due to an emphasis on EXPENSIVE GRAPHICS.
I have found myself playing mmo's quite a bit less these days than I did say just two years ago. Recently I have begun reading and watching some interesting youtubes featuring Richard Bartle.
The man is brilliant and for me it has been refreshing and very intriguing to sort of attempt to understand the entire idea of gaming in general.
It's personal preference and perceptions among other concepts that make each of our experience quite unique. While reading the OP's thread I wasn't necessarily angry, but more of a sort of darker gloomier feeling seemed to connect. I went and watched a portion of a Richard Bartle lecture on "gamification" and it's limitations and rather began to understand somewhat why I seemed rather down about mmo gaming in general. Bartle helps me put this hobby/ pass time of mine into perspective.
While I probably won't ever truly move on, I shall take breaks from time to time. Often it is a bit refreshing to go back to a character/alt I have made in an mmo I have not played in a while and discover what I have learned about playing mmo's in general. I found myself rejuvenated as I moved skills around on my ui thinking why in the world I had them the way I did. I found that a character I may have had difficulties with were simple due to my lack of attention to how that class was to be played at that time. I knew it must have been that I paid little or not attention to the definitions of the skills and what they did. After making my tweaks and moves in skills both damage and utility. I found that that character I almost deleted was now a lot more fun to play. Strange, but it was apparent that I played differently then than I do now. My knowledge base is keener now it seems from playing various mmo's that are slightly different in design.
Our experiences equal our learned knowledge and can translate when revisiting games we have not played in a while. I suppose, for me, it is the attempt to evolve as I gain experience. Additionally it how I deal with boredom and those downtime blues I tend to have during this time of year.
Thus, I have found myself feeling blue, but I have also discovered that if given a chance I can rekindle a bit of joy from rediscovery of old game mechanics. Richard Bartle brings a sort scholarly approach at understanding how these games we call mmorpg's were made. Like many things that seem rather convoluted or complex they all begin with a simple thought experiment. Thus i keep that idea mentally, when I review new games such as Archeage or Landmark, or Warlords of Draenor.
Seeing some very dark posts on the forum today, folks. You keep your head up and remember it's never as bad as it might be...
Alyn
You are brutally right. I've never seen that guy at Youtube but it happened a lot the same and I remain making some pseudo-philosophical approach to gaming and my way of doing it. From what games are your toons, and from what one is the one you twiked and got in a better shape re-ubicating keybinds?
Now we have so many mmorpgs but they are so simmilar that is difficult , anyway I don't want to go back to the UO era, where I started. I think we ara leaving the age of mmorpg stagnation.
I think change is on the horizon and there will be a split between the path followed after WoW and a revisit of Sandbox through hybrids. When I get bored of the genre I take a step back and wait for something new to come out.
The hate is because the genre hasn't moved forward very much in 15 years. Every new game has been hyped to the max. Players are STILL naive enough to fall in love with a game by trailer-tasters and carefully worded comments from the devs.
Players just never learn - what the companies will finally release will be in no way significantly different from every mmo that has been released in the last 15 years. All they do is make the graphics prettier and stick a few more vanity items into the game to make the rubes think they are uber.
WHy do we blame "hype"? it's marketing.... That has never made sense to me. WHo is naive enough to be led that astray?
About 90% of mmorpg players by the look of it. The gullible look at the shiny trailers and think "OMG I must play that!" when a skilful trailer can make even a turd look appetising. There are entire threads devoted to an unreleased game's haters and fanbois who take their stance based on nothing more than game trailers and developer bulletins.
As an example, look no further than the most recent game on the block - ArcheAge. People were waiting for it to enter Beta for a year or two with their tongues hanging out in yet more unwarranted anticipation. Judging by the majority of forums I've read the game is pretty unremarkable and the devs served up more of the same old stuff we've seen before. Yet again.
As an example, look no further than the most recent game on the block - ArcheAge. People were waiting for it to enter Beta for a year or two with their tongues hanging out in yet more unwarranted anticipation. Judging by the majority of forums I've read the game is pretty unremarkable and the devs served up more of the same old stuff we've seen before. Yet again.
It actually has a lot of unique features. I don't think it's anywhere close to perfect and can see some people being let down but saying it's "same old. Same old." is inaccurate. Mainly an issue with the starter areas not selling the game very well I think.
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal I think change is on the horizon and there will be a split between the path followed after WoW and a revisit of Sandbox through hybrids. When I get bored of the genre I take a step back and wait for something new to come out.
I doubt the market will go back to old and failed ideas.
It is more like to go in new directions .. MOBAs, instanced games, seamless matching games like Destiny.
Originally posted by Vermillion_Raventhal I think change is on the horizon and there will be a split between the path followed after WoW and a revisit of Sandbox through hybrids. When I get bored of the genre I take a step back and wait for something new to come out.
I doubt the market will go back to old and failed ideas.
It is more like to go in new directions .. MOBAs, instanced games, seamless matching games like Destiny.
I didn't say old games. I said hybrids of old and new. Its already starting with smaller developers and SOE. Big developers aren't making anything new right now. So when they announce we will know the direction if any.
I didn't say old games. I said hybrids of old and new. Its already starting with smaller developers and SOE. Big developers aren't making anything new right now. So when they announce we will know the direction if any.
What do you mean?
Activision has announced Destiny. Blizz has anounced a MOBA and a card game. That is the direction.
Comments
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No! Don't you give up on me!!
I'm staying here, you hear me?!
I'll never leave your side!
I'm staying right here!
We're going to see this through! Together! You hear me?! TOGETHER!
No! Don't you give up on me!!
I'm staying here, you hear me?!
I'll never leave your side!
I'm staying right here!
We're going to see this through! Together! You hear me?! TOGETHER!
lols thanks for the laughfree 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
Click here for trove referral, bonuses to both!
nah .. what you don't understand is that "immersion" is not it cracks up to be, and others can choose "fun" (by their subjective definition) over immersion. Heck, many chose convenience over immersion .. otherwise, why is LFD/LFR, and lobby games so popular?
And bad time in entertainment? Please ... games are not life. Games are entertainment product, at least to me.
Ya, he is right in a way. It's like being an alcoholic, you start out with one or two to get that happy feeling, then you become more immune and have to drink more for the same feeling. Games can be the same way I suppose.
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Why try to give it up if you enjoy it? Gaming is no more of a waste of time than the other hobbies you listed (except maybe reading depending on what you read.) No need to feel ashamed of doing it.
I hope you are using addiction in a very loose sense though. I hate when people minimize real chemical dependancy problems by using the term "addiction" for everything they may enjoy a lot and spend maybe too much time on.
I Came to realise that the competitive gear style of MMO (constant increase in gear power) is an incredibly decisive and addictive system, and games like Wow have refined it with a faster and faster rate of increased rewards (hits of gear upgrades) to feed the addiction.
Personally I now love games like GW2 because of the power based progression and the community I am in reflects this, guild chat is relaxed, and we play a lot of content for fun (all rewards are useful and contribute towards legendaries).
I feel fortunate that I broke the power addiction, and I'm still married
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D
There is nothing wrong with being critical about MMos or games in general, the issue comes when people can't accept any game and view all games as an abomination. There are some MMOs out there I feel are just bad on far too many levels for me to like playing at all (GW2 and ESO come to mind in terms of AAA titles) though they even they have their own few elements I feel that can be good.
Personally I enjoy WIldstar a lot for its great combat system and over-all challenge it presents, though that doesn't stop me from feeling that it can make itself too tedious at parts, and feel that parts of the leveling experience can get stale due to lack of choice. Despite it i enjoy the game a lot as a recent example.
I do know though there are people out there some people do seem to be displeased with anything that is mentioned, bashing it down. A lot of the hate though tends to be from players who love to death one game and try bashing down anything they view as a threat. Hypocrites seem to be the most common person around, quick to bash a game and throw in bull "facts" to both defend their own game (aka the same type of marketting companies use to sell a game without much merit to it) and bash at the other game (such as the common "THe game is dead" and the like threads). Those types seem more common then those who don't seem to find much happiness with any MMO out there.
I'm not addicted... I can quit anytime I want.
Love the ignorance where someone across the world thinks he has some sort of influence over others.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
No, wrong its not he same in anyway at all , imo , and i have pretty dam good experience with both ..
For most people its just entertainment , much like watching TV or reading a book or go to a movie....
The hate is because the genre hasn't moved forward very much in 15 years. Every new game has been hyped to the max. Players are STILL naive enough to fall in love with a game by trailer-tasters and carefully worded comments from the devs.
Players just never learn - what the companies will finally release will be in no way significantly different from every mmo that has been released in the last 15 years. All they do is make the graphics prettier and stick a few more vanity items into the game to make the rubes think they are uber.
Bahahaha
@ OP I can always find something in the MMORPG landscape to enjoy.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
WHy do we blame "hype"? it's marketing.... That has never made sense to me. WHo is naive enough to be led that astray?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
1. Everquest Next
2. Star Citizen
3. Archeage
4. Gloria Victus
5. Camelot Unchained
6. The Repopulation
7. Warhammer 40,000: Eternal Crusade
The curious hype-meter of mmorpg.com actually suggests some interesting titles and diversity. I'd say all these show interest eg the token Eastern Effort with AA, the TPS, the space-sim MO-, the voxel-terraforming, story bricks big pub, the RvRvR reboot, the indie tiny budget who could and the fantasy FP-action combat low fantasy...
It's not bad at all... after a 10 year drought. What's good is that it's hopefully going to fragment the market more instead of the One MMO To Rule Them All.
The main criticism of the last 10 year mmorpgs is for me: NARROW CHOICES due to an emphasis on EXPENSIVE GRAPHICS.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Let's play Fallen Earth (blind, 300 episodes)
Let's play Guild Wars 2 (blind, 45 episodes)
You are brutally right. I've never seen that guy at Youtube but it happened a lot the same and I remain making some pseudo-philosophical approach to gaming and my way of doing it. From what games are your toons, and from what one is the one you twiked and got in a better shape re-ubicating keybinds?
Now we have so many mmorpgs but they are so simmilar that is difficult , anyway I don't want to go back to the UO era, where I started. I think we ara leaving the age of mmorpg stagnation.
It is a question of fangs.
About 90% of mmorpg players by the look of it. The gullible look at the shiny trailers and think "OMG I must play that!" when a skilful trailer can make even a turd look appetising. There are entire threads devoted to an unreleased game's haters and fanbois who take their stance based on nothing more than game trailers and developer bulletins.
As an example, look no further than the most recent game on the block - ArcheAge. People were waiting for it to enter Beta for a year or two with their tongues hanging out in yet more unwarranted anticipation. Judging by the majority of forums I've read the game is pretty unremarkable and the devs served up more of the same old stuff we've seen before. Yet again.
It actually has a lot of unique features. I don't think it's anywhere close to perfect and can see some people being let down but saying it's "same old. Same old." is inaccurate. Mainly an issue with the starter areas not selling the game very well I think.
I doubt the market will go back to old and failed ideas.
It is more like to go in new directions .. MOBAs, instanced games, seamless matching games like Destiny.
I didn't say old games. I said hybrids of old and new. Its already starting with smaller developers and SOE. Big developers aren't making anything new right now. So when they announce we will know the direction if any.
What do you mean?
Activision has announced Destiny. Blizz has anounced a MOBA and a card game. That is the direction.
gaming will change once the large companies stop making murder simulators.
I had plenty of fun shooting stuff over the past several decades but enugh already for christ sake.
A new murder simulator with cloud programming, match making and predicitive programming is not a real change. its a tweak
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.