Originally posted by PioneerStew [...] I essentially found the game irritating in its neediness and attention whoring and exhausting; for me no part of it was a fun experience.
I couldn't play for stretches of longer than 30 minutes before feeling exhausted by all the stuff happening on my screen. I think I made it to level 10.
A lot of the comments about that on this thread remind me of what this guy wrong a while ago:
Originally posted by FelixMajor
For me, playing Wildstar felt like I was dosed with an extreme case of ADHD, force fed extasy, and thrown into a forest with a paintball gun and hang glider.
It was intense, then that extasy wore off...then I acclimatized to my ADHD, ran out of paintballs, and a hole torn in my hang glider. I was left sitting there feeling dirty, sad, and hungover.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
I know swtor turned their fortunes around by going f2p, but I don't think even that decision would save this game. Honestly, who among you who have never tried Wildstar would actually be bothered to download and try the game? I know I wouldn't with so many other mmos around to occupy my time.
Is it now safe to say Wildstar was a bigger flop at release than swtor?
Without a doubt it is. Honestly, and I'm not a SWTOR defender, but it wasn't that terrible sales wise. Retention wise yes, but sales wise blew the doors off of Wildstar. It started tanking retention wise, and they did the smart thing and have flourished. But they have something going for them Wildstar never had and never will, one of the most popular IP's in history. SWTOR might have been a flop compared to expectations initially, but there was little doubt that it would eventually make its money back. Its done that and then some, because no matter what, fanbase for Star Wars is too strong. That fanbase was more than enough to keep the game afloat while the game and business model transitioned. Wildstar has no such following, no such chance.
Looking back ESO got railed on way harder than Wildstar. Everyone was expecting this mega flop there, but they much like SWTOR had the fan base to fall back on. ESO might not be a WoW killer. but with 700-800k subs it currently has, its in a very good position to be around for quite some time. Like TOR they expected more, but they are healthy and have enough of a base that if they choose to change their business model they have enough money coming in to do so.
I think Wildstar is the biggest flop of a AAA mmo I have seen in a long long time honestly to answer your question. SWTOR was only a flop compared to expectations (both internal and external) but actually sold a heap and is profitable.ESO was much the same despite being expected to be the bigger flop than Wildstar. I beta'd Wildstar and got so bored I couldn't get past 15. Free to play or not, I would never return to the game, and there is a lot of sentiment out there similar to mine. With that attitude, this game is in some serious trouble, because that means in a lot of peoples minds there is nothing they can ever do to right the ship.
So true. ESO and SWTOR's futures really are not in question at all. The massive IP fanbase could literally carry them forever and more new star wars media for this generation is only can help push that. I have good friends that no matter how bad Bioware austin botches something will say but its star wars guys cmon!!!
As for ESO which i am a fan of due to my playstyle,if they keep pushing updates and fixes consistently like they have in a year or so would be in a very stable profitable place.Also there is console money waiting to be had for them.
But as you said Wildstar doesn't really have that buffer,they need to sink or swim there is no lifeguard around for them.From a business standpoint they really have no choice but to play the F2P card.
At this stage I simply do not think that the F2P option will be adequate. Too many people have either avoided it or tried it and left due to its core mechanics and mantra.
It needs to do an FFARR imo.
hahaha there is that too.only problem is NCsoft square enix is not.
Indeed, but I just thought I would take the doom and gloom to new levels.
In fact I will ratchet it up a little more. Since NCSoft are unlikely to fund a rebuild (particularly given the absence of a proven IP) then surely the only option is to cut their losses and shut it down?
I know swtor turned their fortunes around by going f2p, but I don't think even that decision would save this game. Honestly, who among you who have never tried Wildstar would actually be bothered to download and try the game? I know I wouldn't with so many other mmos around to occupy my time.
Is it now safe to say Wildstar was a bigger flop at release than swtor?
Without a doubt it is. Honestly, and I'm not a SWTOR defender, but it wasn't that terrible sales wise. Retention wise yes, but sales wise blew the doors off of Wildstar. It started tanking retention wise, and they did the smart thing and have flourished. But they have something going for them Wildstar never had and never will, one of the most popular IP's in history. SWTOR might have been a flop compared to expectations initially, but there was little doubt that it would eventually make its money back. Its done that and then some, because no matter what, fanbase for Star Wars is too strong. That fanbase was more than enough to keep the game afloat while the game and business model transitioned. Wildstar has no such following, no such chance.
Looking back ESO got railed on way harder than Wildstar. Everyone was expecting this mega flop there, but they much like SWTOR had the fan base to fall back on. ESO might not be a WoW killer. but with 700-800k subs it currently has, its in a very good position to be around for quite some time. Like TOR they expected more, but they are healthy and have enough of a base that if they choose to change their business model they have enough money coming in to do so.
I think Wildstar is the biggest flop of a AAA mmo I have seen in a long long time honestly to answer your question. SWTOR was only a flop compared to expectations (both internal and external) but actually sold a heap and is profitable.ESO was much the same despite being expected to be the bigger flop than Wildstar. I beta'd Wildstar and got so bored I couldn't get past 15. Free to play or not, I would never return to the game, and there is a lot of sentiment out there similar to mine. With that attitude, this game is in some serious trouble, because that means in a lot of peoples minds there is nothing they can ever do to right the ship.
So true. ESO and SWTOR's futures really are not in question at all. The massive IP fanbase could literally carry them forever and more new star wars media for this generation is only can help push that. I have good friends that no matter how bad Bioware austin botches something will say but its star wars guys cmon!!!
As for ESO which i am a fan of due to my playstyle,if they keep pushing updates and fixes consistently like they have in a year or so would be in a very stable profitable place.Also there is console money waiting to be had for them.
But as you said Wildstar doesn't really have that buffer,they need to sink or swim there is no lifeguard around for them.From a business standpoint they really have no choice but to play the F2P card.
At this stage I simply do not think that the F2P option will be adequate. Too many people have either avoided it or tried it and left due to its core mechanics and mantra.
It needs to do an FFARR imo.
hahaha there is that too.only problem is NCsoft square enix is not.
Indeed, but I just thought I would take the doom and gloom to new levels.
In fact I will ratchet it up a little more. Since NCSoft are unlikely to fund a rebuild (particularly given the absence of a proven IP) then surely the only option is to cut their losses and shut it down?
You kid, but it's not like NCSoft doesn't have a proven track record of putting down games that underperformed... Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, City of Heroes, and that mecha game I can't recall the name of... Exteel or something?
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
I know swtor turned their fortunes around by going f2p, but I don't think even that decision would save this game. Honestly, who among you who have never tried Wildstar would actually be bothered to download and try the game? I know I wouldn't with so many other mmos around to occupy my time.
Is it now safe to say Wildstar was a bigger flop at release than swtor?
Without a doubt it is. Honestly, and I'm not a SWTOR defender, but it wasn't that terrible sales wise. Retention wise yes, but sales wise blew the doors off of Wildstar. It started tanking retention wise, and they did the smart thing and have flourished. But they have something going for them Wildstar never had and never will, one of the most popular IP's in history. SWTOR might have been a flop compared to expectations initially, but there was little doubt that it would eventually make its money back. Its done that and then some, because no matter what, fanbase for Star Wars is too strong. That fanbase was more than enough to keep the game afloat while the game and business model transitioned. Wildstar has no such following, no such chance.
Looking back ESO got railed on way harder than Wildstar. Everyone was expecting this mega flop there, but they much like SWTOR had the fan base to fall back on. ESO might not be a WoW killer. but with 700-800k subs it currently has, its in a very good position to be around for quite some time. Like TOR they expected more, but they are healthy and have enough of a base that if they choose to change their business model they have enough money coming in to do so.
I think Wildstar is the biggest flop of a AAA mmo I have seen in a long long time honestly to answer your question. SWTOR was only a flop compared to expectations (both internal and external) but actually sold a heap and is profitable.ESO was much the same despite being expected to be the bigger flop than Wildstar. I beta'd Wildstar and got so bored I couldn't get past 15. Free to play or not, I would never return to the game, and there is a lot of sentiment out there similar to mine. With that attitude, this game is in some serious trouble, because that means in a lot of peoples minds there is nothing they can ever do to right the ship.
So true. ESO and SWTOR's futures really are not in question at all. The massive IP fanbase could literally carry them forever and more new star wars media for this generation is only can help push that. I have good friends that no matter how bad Bioware austin botches something will say but its star wars guys cmon!!!
As for ESO which i am a fan of due to my playstyle,if they keep pushing updates and fixes consistently like they have in a year or so would be in a very stable profitable place.Also there is console money waiting to be had for them.
But as you said Wildstar doesn't really have that buffer,they need to sink or swim there is no lifeguard around for them.From a business standpoint they really have no choice but to play the F2P card.
At this stage I simply do not think that the F2P option will be adequate. Too many people have either avoided it or tried it and left due to its core mechanics and mantra.
It needs to do an FFARR imo.
hahaha there is that too.only problem is NCsoft square enix is not.
Indeed, but I just thought I would take the doom and gloom to new levels.
In fact I will ratchet it up a little more. Since NCSoft are unlikely to fund a rebuild (particularly given the absence of a proven IP) then surely the only option is to cut their losses and shut it down?
your point is still a very sound one i might add tho.At least i can blame my purchase on my room mate...yep thats my excuse!
I know swtor turned their fortunes around by going f2p, but I don't think even that decision would save this game. Honestly, who among you who have never tried Wildstar would actually be bothered to download and try the game? I know I wouldn't with so many other mmos around to occupy my time.
Is it now safe to say Wildstar was a bigger flop at release than swtor?
Without a doubt it is. Honestly, and I'm not a SWTOR defender, but it wasn't that terrible sales wise. Retention wise yes, but sales wise blew the doors off of Wildstar. It started tanking retention wise, and they did the smart thing and have flourished. But they have something going for them Wildstar never had and never will, one of the most popular IP's in history. SWTOR might have been a flop compared to expectations initially, but there was little doubt that it would eventually make its money back. Its done that and then some, because no matter what, fanbase for Star Wars is too strong. That fanbase was more than enough to keep the game afloat while the game and business model transitioned. Wildstar has no such following, no such chance.
Looking back ESO got railed on way harder than Wildstar. Everyone was expecting this mega flop there, but they much like SWTOR had the fan base to fall back on. ESO might not be a WoW killer. but with 700-800k subs it currently has, its in a very good position to be around for quite some time. Like TOR they expected more, but they are healthy and have enough of a base that if they choose to change their business model they have enough money coming in to do so.
I think Wildstar is the biggest flop of a AAA mmo I have seen in a long long time honestly to answer your question. SWTOR was only a flop compared to expectations (both internal and external) but actually sold a heap and is profitable.ESO was much the same despite being expected to be the bigger flop than Wildstar. I beta'd Wildstar and got so bored I couldn't get past 15. Free to play or not, I would never return to the game, and there is a lot of sentiment out there similar to mine. With that attitude, this game is in some serious trouble, because that means in a lot of peoples minds there is nothing they can ever do to right the ship.
So true. ESO and SWTOR's futures really are not in question at all. The massive IP fanbase could literally carry them forever and more new star wars media for this generation is only can help push that. I have good friends that no matter how bad Bioware austin botches something will say but its star wars guys cmon!!!
As for ESO which i am a fan of due to my playstyle,if they keep pushing updates and fixes consistently like they have in a year or so would be in a very stable profitable place.Also there is console money waiting to be had for them.
But as you said Wildstar doesn't really have that buffer,they need to sink or swim there is no lifeguard around for them.From a business standpoint they really have no choice but to play the F2P card.
At this stage I simply do not think that the F2P option will be adequate. Too many people have either avoided it or tried it and left due to its core mechanics and mantra.
It needs to do an FFARR imo.
hahaha there is that too.only problem is NCsoft square enix is not.
Indeed, but I just thought I would take the doom and gloom to new levels.
In fact I will ratchet it up a little more. Since NCSoft are unlikely to fund a rebuild (particularly given the absence of a proven IP) then surely the only option is to cut their losses and shut it down?
You kid, but it's not like NCSoft doesn't have a proven track record of putting down games that underperformed... Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, City of Heroes, and that mecha game I can't recall the name of... Exteel or something?
I was only half joking. I think all of the games you mentioned got at least 18 months though? Exteel, I forgot all about that, hadn't even noticed it had been shut down.
I know swtor turned their fortunes around by going f2p, but I don't think even that decision would save this game. Honestly, who among you who have never tried Wildstar would actually be bothered to download and try the game? I know I wouldn't with so many other mmos around to occupy my time.
Is it now safe to say Wildstar was a bigger flop at release than swtor?
Without a doubt it is. Honestly, and I'm not a SWTOR defender, but it wasn't that terrible sales wise. Retention wise yes, but sales wise blew the doors off of Wildstar. It started tanking retention wise, and they did the smart thing and have flourished. But they have something going for them Wildstar never had and never will, one of the most popular IP's in history. SWTOR might have been a flop compared to expectations initially, but there was little doubt that it would eventually make its money back. Its done that and then some, because no matter what, fanbase for Star Wars is too strong. That fanbase was more than enough to keep the game afloat while the game and business model transitioned. Wildstar has no such following, no such chance.
Looking back ESO got railed on way harder than Wildstar. Everyone was expecting this mega flop there, but they much like SWTOR had the fan base to fall back on. ESO might not be a WoW killer. but with 700-800k subs it currently has, its in a very good position to be around for quite some time. Like TOR they expected more, but they are healthy and have enough of a base that if they choose to change their business model they have enough money coming in to do so.
I think Wildstar is the biggest flop of a AAA mmo I have seen in a long long time honestly to answer your question. SWTOR was only a flop compared to expectations (both internal and external) but actually sold a heap and is profitable.ESO was much the same despite being expected to be the bigger flop than Wildstar. I beta'd Wildstar and got so bored I couldn't get past 15. Free to play or not, I would never return to the game, and there is a lot of sentiment out there similar to mine. With that attitude, this game is in some serious trouble, because that means in a lot of peoples minds there is nothing they can ever do to right the ship.
So true. ESO and SWTOR's futures really are not in question at all. The massive IP fanbase could literally carry them forever and more new star wars media for this generation is only can help push that. I have good friends that no matter how bad Bioware austin botches something will say but its star wars guys cmon!!!
As for ESO which i am a fan of due to my playstyle,if they keep pushing updates and fixes consistently like they have in a year or so would be in a very stable profitable place.Also there is console money waiting to be had for them.
But as you said Wildstar doesn't really have that buffer,they need to sink or swim there is no lifeguard around for them.From a business standpoint they really have no choice but to play the F2P card.
At this stage I simply do not think that the F2P option will be adequate. Too many people have either avoided it or tried it and left due to its core mechanics and mantra.
It needs to do an FFARR imo.
hahaha there is that too.only problem is NCsoft square enix is not.
Indeed, but I just thought I would take the doom and gloom to new levels.
In fact I will ratchet it up a little more. Since NCSoft are unlikely to fund a rebuild (particularly given the absence of a proven IP) then surely the only option is to cut their losses and shut it down?
You kid, but it's not like NCSoft doesn't have a proven track record of putting down games that underperformed... Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, City of Heroes, and that mecha game I can't recall the name of... Exteel or something?
I was only half joking. I think all of the games you mentioned got at least 18 months though? Exteel, I forgot all about that, hadn't even noticed it had been shut down.
City of Heroes was the only one that was around for long. I doubt any of the others lived to see their 18th month birthday.
Both TR and Auto Assault are on it. Looks like they are somewere around the 18 months mark, give or take a bit.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Lol this thread is so funny when I think about so many here lurking in the ESO forums trying to bring that game down only to cling onto what I said since beta would be a flop. Little by little the fans of this game, Forbes, and the staff of this site who over rated and over hyped this game are starting to look more and more....well... Insert adjective here______. It also is starting to make a lot of professional review sites look like they are completely out of touch with reality.
I know swtor turned their fortunes around by going f2p, but I don't think even that decision would save this game. Honestly, who among you who have never tried Wildstar would actually be bothered to download and try the game? I know I wouldn't with so many other mmos around to occupy my time.
Is it now safe to say Wildstar was a bigger flop at release than swtor?
Without a doubt it is. Honestly, and I'm not a SWTOR defender, but it wasn't that terrible sales wise. Retention wise yes, but sales wise blew the doors off of Wildstar. It started tanking retention wise, and they did the smart thing and have flourished. But they have something going for them Wildstar never had and never will, one of the most popular IP's in history. SWTOR might have been a flop compared to expectations initially, but there was little doubt that it would eventually make its money back. Its done that and then some, because no matter what, fanbase for Star Wars is too strong. That fanbase was more than enough to keep the game afloat while the game and business model transitioned. Wildstar has no such following, no such chance.
Looking back ESO got railed on way harder than Wildstar. Everyone was expecting this mega flop there, but they much like SWTOR had the fan base to fall back on. ESO might not be a WoW killer. but with 700-800k subs it currently has, its in a very good position to be around for quite some time. Like TOR they expected more, but they are healthy and have enough of a base that if they choose to change their business model they have enough money coming in to do so.
I think Wildstar is the biggest flop of a AAA mmo I have seen in a long long time honestly to answer your question. SWTOR was only a flop compared to expectations (both internal and external) but actually sold a heap and is profitable.ESO was much the same despite being expected to be the bigger flop than Wildstar. I beta'd Wildstar and got so bored I couldn't get past 15. Free to play or not, I would never return to the game, and there is a lot of sentiment out there similar to mine. With that attitude, this game is in some serious trouble, because that means in a lot of peoples minds there is nothing they can ever do to right the ship.
So true. ESO and SWTOR's futures really are not in question at all. The massive IP fanbase could literally carry them forever and more new star wars media for this generation is only can help push that. I have good friends that no matter how bad Bioware austin botches something will say but its star wars guys cmon!!!
As for ESO which i am a fan of due to my playstyle,if they keep pushing updates and fixes consistently like they have in a year or so would be in a very stable profitable place.Also there is console money waiting to be had for them.
But as you said Wildstar doesn't really have that buffer,they need to sink or swim there is no lifeguard around for them.From a business standpoint they really have no choice but to play the F2P card.
At this stage I simply do not think that the F2P option will be adequate. Too many people have either avoided it or tried it and left due to its core mechanics and mantra.
It needs to do an FFARR imo.
hahaha there is that too.only problem is NCsoft square enix is not.
Indeed, but I just thought I would take the doom and gloom to new levels.
In fact I will ratchet it up a little more. Since NCSoft are unlikely to fund a rebuild (particularly given the absence of a proven IP) then surely the only option is to cut their losses and shut it down?
You kid, but it's not like NCSoft doesn't have a proven track record of putting down games that underperformed... Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, City of Heroes, and that mecha game I can't recall the name of... Exteel or something?
I was only half joking. I think all of the games you mentioned got at least 18 months though? Exteel, I forgot all about that, hadn't even noticed it had been shut down.
City of Heroes was the only one that was around for long. I doubt any of the others lived to see their 18th month birthday.
Both TR and Auto Assault are on it. Looks like they are somewere around the 18 months mark, give or take a bit.
I would no question say wildstar's future looks really bad solely because of ncsoft.it's an mmo changes can always be made,publishers are not gonna throw money away tho to wait for you to become profitable tho.
Originally posted by keithian Lol this thread is so funny when I think about so many here lurking in the ESO forums trying to bring that game down only to cling onto what I said since beta would be a flop. Little by little the fans of this game, Forbes, and the staff of this site who over rated and over hyped this game are starting to look more and more....well... Insert adjective here______. It also is starting to make a lot of professional review sites look like they are completely out of touch with reality.
I know swtor turned their fortunes around by going f2p, but I don't think even that decision would save this game. Honestly, who among you who have never tried Wildstar would actually be bothered to download and try the game? I know I wouldn't with so many other mmos around to occupy my time.
Is it now safe to say Wildstar was a bigger flop at release than swtor?
Without a doubt it is. Honestly, and I'm not a SWTOR defender, but it wasn't that terrible sales wise. Retention wise yes, but sales wise blew the doors off of Wildstar. It started tanking retention wise, and they did the smart thing and have flourished. But they have something going for them Wildstar never had and never will, one of the most popular IP's in history. SWTOR might have been a flop compared to expectations initially, but there was little doubt that it would eventually make its money back. Its done that and then some, because no matter what, fanbase for Star Wars is too strong. That fanbase was more than enough to keep the game afloat while the game and business model transitioned. Wildstar has no such following, no such chance.
Looking back ESO got railed on way harder than Wildstar. Everyone was expecting this mega flop there, but they much like SWTOR had the fan base to fall back on. ESO might not be a WoW killer. but with 700-800k subs it currently has, its in a very good position to be around for quite some time. Like TOR they expected more, but they are healthy and have enough of a base that if they choose to change their business model they have enough money coming in to do so.
I think Wildstar is the biggest flop of a AAA mmo I have seen in a long long time honestly to answer your question. SWTOR was only a flop compared to expectations (both internal and external) but actually sold a heap and is profitable.ESO was much the same despite being expected to be the bigger flop than Wildstar. I beta'd Wildstar and got so bored I couldn't get past 15. Free to play or not, I would never return to the game, and there is a lot of sentiment out there similar to mine. With that attitude, this game is in some serious trouble, because that means in a lot of peoples minds there is nothing they can ever do to right the ship.
So true. ESO and SWTOR's futures really are not in question at all. The massive IP fanbase could literally carry them forever and more new star wars media for this generation is only can help push that. I have good friends that no matter how bad Bioware austin botches something will say but its star wars guys cmon!!!
As for ESO which i am a fan of due to my playstyle,if they keep pushing updates and fixes consistently like they have in a year or so would be in a very stable profitable place.Also there is console money waiting to be had for them.
But as you said Wildstar doesn't really have that buffer,they need to sink or swim there is no lifeguard around for them.From a business standpoint they really have no choice but to play the F2P card.
At this stage I simply do not think that the F2P option will be adequate. Too many people have either avoided it or tried it and left due to its core mechanics and mantra.
It needs to do an FFARR imo.
hahaha there is that too.only problem is NCsoft square enix is not.
Indeed, but I just thought I would take the doom and gloom to new levels.
In fact I will ratchet it up a little more. Since NCSoft are unlikely to fund a rebuild (particularly given the absence of a proven IP) then surely the only option is to cut their losses and shut it down?
You kid, but it's not like NCSoft doesn't have a proven track record of putting down games that underperformed... Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, City of Heroes, and that mecha game I can't recall the name of... Exteel or something?
I was only half joking. I think all of the games you mentioned got at least 18 months though? Exteel, I forgot all about that, hadn't even noticed it had been shut down.
I think some of the arguments used are a bit flawed, but based on the screenshots its fair to say that Wildstar may well be in trouble retention wise, but, rather than exemplifying ESO as a contrast, i would suggest that ESO is much in the same situation, there is as of yet, no evidence to suggest otherwise, but the games redeeming features is that firstly, its not an overly cartoonified game, which imo is an issue with Wildstar, but the graphics at least in ESO are far better, and secondly, that the mega server technology used means that even though the game has a low population, it is not as readily apparent as all that happens is the number of instances outside of cyrodiil is reduced to compensate, the only telling thing about it is that the campaigns in Cyrodiil are in much the same situation as the servers on Wildstar, and i have no reason to disbelieve the screenshots that have been posted either.
Rather than suggest this is a problem with subscription based games though, i think its more of a case that each game has issues in terms of gameplay, particularly end game as is highlighted by the lack of willingness to join the raiding in Wildstar, and for the lack of participation in the PVP in ESO, both games imo would have done well to concentrate more on the basic gameplay, and concentrated more on the PVE experience for the casual player, by the sound of it, both games have failed pretty badly at this, coincidentally, its something that WoW does really well, SW;TOR's content also is pretty good in terms of the PVE, though i think the end game in that game even, could use a lot of work and is probably no better than either ESO or Wildstar.
For the record i don't think ESO or Wildstar would benefit from going F2P, i think the underlying issues need to be addressed first, for me that means ESO has more going for it, just because i like the graphics better than the 'heavily stylised' cartoon graphics, which i totally abhor.
I would no question say wildstar's future looks really bad solely because of ncsoft.it's an mmo changes can always be made,publishers are not gonna throw money away tho to wait for you to become profitable tho.
Yep. When your game starts struggling, NCSoft's the last publisher you want to have as your overlord.
I'm pretty sure Carbine's devs must be dealing with some crazy high stress levels at the moment.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
Originally posted by keithian Lol this thread is so funny when I think about so many here lurking in the ESO forums trying to bring that game down only to cling onto what I said since beta would be a flop. Little by little the fans of this game, Forbes, and the staff of this site who over rated and over hyped this game are starting to look more and more foolish. It also is starting to make a lot of professional review sites look like they are completely out of touch with reality.
I saw this coming long before launch.
I said many times that 40-man raiding is going to flop! Flop hard! It's just a too darn pain and way too time consuming to get 40 people together. Let alone make them work together, without jumping to eachother's throat's after each inevitable wipe.
Carbine has been fooled by the tiny, extremely vocal, minority. Convincing them 40man hardcore RAID'ing is the thing!
And now the reality has sunk in, it's going to bankrupt them.
It's very sad really. As it's too late now for them to turn it around and overhaul the entire endgame.
Except for FFXIV:ARR (SE has very deep Pockets), you just don't get a second chance anymore these days. The market is way too saturated.
Originally posted by keithian Lol this thread is so funny when I think about so many here lurking in the ESO forums trying to bring that game down only to cling onto what I said since beta would be a flop. Little by little the fans of this game, Forbes, and the staff of this site who over rated and over hyped this game are starting to look more and more....well... Insert adjective here______. It also is starting to make a lot of professional review sites look like they are completely out of touch with reality.
I love me some ESO SON! :P seriously i do!
I agree with Keith regarding review sites. The metacritic score for Wildstar is 82; all this tells me is that these reviews were written long before the initial veneer wore off and the core mechanics shone through, i.e. far too early to have any meaning. I think these reviewers were blinded by all the flashing text and urgent timers.
Most reviews and the pre-release hype articles on sites such as this are overwhelmingly positive where a little objectivity (or at least presenting an alternative viewpoint) would serve the site's users much better. I think the player response to WS certainly shows that a little more objectivity is required.
Originally posted by keithian Lol this thread is so funny when I think about so many here lurking in the ESO forums trying to bring that game down only to cling onto what I said since beta would be a flop. Little by little the fans of this game, Forbes, and the staff of this site who over rated and over hyped this game are starting to look more and more....well... Insert adjective here______. It also is starting to make a lot of professional review sites look like they are completely out of touch with reality.
I love me some ESO SON! :P seriously i do!
I agree with Keith regarding review sites. The metacritic score for Wildstar is 82; all this tells me is that these reviews were written long before the initial veneer wore off and the core mechanics shone through, i.e. far too early to have any meaning. I think these reviewers were blinded by all the flashing text and urgent timers.
Most reviews and the pre-release hype articles on sites such as this are overwhelmingly positive where a little objectivity (or at least presenting an alternative viewpoint) would serve the site's users much better. I think the player response to WS certainly shows that a little more objectivity is required.
personally i find most mmo reviews to be a total joke,they make for a good laugh for me tho.I'd rather watch a favorite streamer play the game i would get more info out of that.
These are US servers and screen shot was taken at 7 pm.
Mother of God...
Wow this is pretty rough. The fact that the top PVP and PVE servers have now hit low pop status. I know this was posted in the official forums, but people need to understand that at the moment Carbine is leaving one "official" thread open regarding anything that has to do with population issues; all others will be closed.
The search /who command is pretty limited since it only returns 50 players in the search result, but it can be tailored if you search using only letter. Doing a search from A to Z will give a much clearer picture on how the population looks like in a particular server and add them up. It is the same exact method used to tally up FFXIV server populations but the limit goes up to 200 instead.
Rowsdower is one of the least populated servers currently (if not the lowest) and you can get a survey simply by doing a server-wide search instead. In this case the server has somewhere between 10 and 20 people online in the entire server during primetime.
All the other NA servers except for the top PVP and PVE servers hit around 100 players and sometimes as low as 50 players as the total number of people logged in per server. The fact that the top PVP and PVE servers hit low status this week is just... yeah Carbine needs to combine everything to 1 PVP and 1 PVE servers or up that megaserver tech real fast unless they are planning to announce that they are going F2P as well. Attunements needs to be fixed ASAP as well.
I know swtor turned their fortunes around by going f2p, but I don't think even that decision would save this game. Honestly, who among you who have never tried Wildstar would actually be bothered to download and try the game? I know I wouldn't with so many other mmos around to occupy my time.
Is it now safe to say Wildstar was a bigger flop at release than swtor?
Without a doubt it is. Honestly, and I'm not a SWTOR defender, but it wasn't that terrible sales wise. Retention wise yes, but sales wise blew the doors off of Wildstar. It started tanking retention wise, and they did the smart thing and have flourished. But they have something going for them Wildstar never had and never will, one of the most popular IP's in history. SWTOR might have been a flop compared to expectations initially, but there was little doubt that it would eventually make its money back. Its done that and then some, because no matter what, fanbase for Star Wars is too strong. That fanbase was more than enough to keep the game afloat while the game and business model transitioned. Wildstar has no such following, no such chance.
Looking back ESO got railed on way harder than Wildstar. Everyone was expecting this mega flop there, but they much like SWTOR had the fan base to fall back on. ESO might not be a WoW killer. but with 700-800k subs it currently has, its in a very good position to be around for quite some time. Like TOR they expected more, but they are healthy and have enough of a base that if they choose to change their business model they have enough money coming in to do so.
I think Wildstar is the biggest flop of a AAA mmo I have seen in a long long time honestly to answer your question. SWTOR was only a flop compared to expectations (both internal and external) but actually sold a heap and is profitable.ESO was much the same despite being expected to be the bigger flop than Wildstar. I beta'd Wildstar and got so bored I couldn't get past 15. Free to play or not, I would never return to the game, and there is a lot of sentiment out there similar to mine. With that attitude, this game is in some serious trouble, because that means in a lot of peoples minds there is nothing they can ever do to right the ship.
So true. ESO and SWTOR's futures really are not in question at all. The massive IP fanbase could literally carry them forever and more new star wars media for this generation is only can help push that. I have good friends that no matter how bad Bioware austin botches something will say but its star wars guys cmon!!!
As for ESO which i am a fan of due to my playstyle,if they keep pushing updates and fixes consistently like they have in a year or so would be in a very stable profitable place.Also there is console money waiting to be had for them.
But as you said Wildstar doesn't really have that buffer,they need to sink or swim there is no lifeguard around for them.From a business standpoint they really have no choice but to play the F2P card.
At this stage I simply do not think that the F2P option will be adequate. Too many people have either avoided it or tried it and left due to its core mechanics and mantra.
It needs to do an FFARR imo.
hahaha there is that too.only problem is NCsoft square enix is not.
Indeed, but I just thought I would take the doom and gloom to new levels.
In fact I will ratchet it up a little more. Since NCSoft are unlikely to fund a rebuild (particularly given the absence of a proven IP) then surely the only option is to cut their losses and shut it down?
You kid, but it's not like NCSoft doesn't have a proven track record of putting down games that underperformed... Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, City of Heroes, and that mecha game I can't recall the name of... Exteel or something?
I was only half joking. I think all of the games you mentioned got at least 18 months though? Exteel, I forgot all about that, hadn't even noticed it had been shut down.
I think some of the arguments used are a bit flawed, but based on the screenshots its fair to say that Wildstar may well be in trouble retention wise, but, rather than exemplifying ESO as a contrast, i would suggest that ESO is much in the same situation, there is as of yet, no evidence to suggest otherwise, but the games redeeming features is that firstly, its not an overly cartoonified game, which imo is an issue with Wildstar, but the graphics at least in ESO are far better, and secondly, that the mega server technology used means that even though the game has a low population, it is not as readily apparent as all that happens is the number of instances outside of cyrodiil is reduced to compensate, the only telling thing about it is that the campaigns in Cyrodiil are in much the same situation as the servers on Wildstar, and i have no reason to disbelieve the screenshots that have been posted either.
Rather than suggest this is a problem with subscription based games though, i think its more of a case that each game has issues in terms of gameplay, particularly end game as is highlighted by the lack of willingness to join the raiding in Wildstar, and for the lack of participation in the PVP in ESO, both games imo would have done well to concentrate more on the basic gameplay, and concentrated more on the PVE experience for the casual player, by the sound of it, both games have failed pretty badly at this, coincidentally, its something that WoW does really well, SW;TOR's content also is pretty good in terms of the PVE, though i think the end game in that game even, could use a lot of work and is probably no better than either ESO or Wildstar.
For the record i don't think ESO or Wildstar would benefit from going F2P, i think the underlying issues need to be addressed first, for me that means ESO has more going for it, just because i like the graphics better than the 'heavily stylised' cartoon graphics, which i totally abhor.
a Lot of really good points,as someone who enjoys ESO and supports the game mostly due to how the dev team does things compared to the other games. no question the issues that you mention with ESO definitely exist. Also agree that it's never about the sub it's about what a player expects in exchange for that sub an all players have vastly different expectations.
Everyone is entitled to there own opinion but no mmorpg has ever offered me the PVE experience ESO has,but on the other end of that grouping is a major issue in the game.I'm partially biased due to my solo nature,but for me eso offers me more for my sub than most games do.
An don't even get me started on WoW lol The day someone proves to me that WoW is enjoyable outside of its raid scene i would gladly sub to it! So as far as i'm concerned wildstar is no surprise to me cause i feel exactly the same about WoW.
But at the end of the day i'm paying for a service i dont care how shiny or dull your product is,what i wanna know is what are you as a company gonna do to keep it shiny or polish it up so its shiny.
That means just as much to me as if I can enjoy your product to begin with!
These are US servers and screen shot was taken at 7 pm.
Mother of God...
Wow this is pretty rough. The fact that the top PVP and PVE servers have now hit low pop status. I know this was posted in the official forums, but people need to understand that at the moment Carbine is leaving one "official" thread open regarding anything that has to do with population issues; all others will be closed.
The search /who command is pretty limited since it only returns 50 players in the search result, but it can be tailored if you search using only letter. Doing a search from A to Z will give a much clearer picture on how the population looks like in a particular server and add them up. It is the same exact method used to tally up FFXIV server populations but the limit goes up to 200 instead.
Rowsdower is one of the least populated servers currently (if not the lowest) and you can get a survey simply by doing a server-wide search instead. In this case the server has somewhere between 10 and 20 people online in the entire server during primetime.
All the other NA servers except for the top PVP and PVE servers hit around 100 players and sometimes as low as 50 players as the total number of people logged in per server. The fact that the top PVP and PVE servers hit low status this week is just... yeah Carbine needs to combine everything to 1 PVP and 1 PVE servers or up that megaserver tech real fast unless they are planning to announce that they are going F2P as well. Attunements needs to be fixed ASAP as well.
Dang, 13 players during prime time? That's less than a lot of multiplayer games out there.
I guess the majority of that server's population already transferred or outright quit.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
These are US servers and screen shot was taken at 7 pm.
Mother of God...
Wow this is pretty rough. The fact that the top PVP and PVE servers have now hit low pop status. I know this was posted in the official forums, but people need to understand that at the moment Carbine is leaving one "official" thread open regarding anything that has to do with population issues; all others will be closed.
The search /who command is pretty limited since it only returns 50 players in the search result, but it can be tailored if you search using only letter. Doing a search from A to Z will give a much clearer picture on how the population looks like in a particular server and add them up. It is the same exact method used to tally up FFXIV server populations but the limit goes up to 200 instead.
Rowsdower is one of the least populated servers currently (if not the lowest) and you can get a survey simply by doing a server-wide search instead. In this case the server has somewhere between 10 and 20 people online in the entire server during primetime.
All the other NA servers except for the top PVP and PVE servers hit around 100 players and sometimes as low as 50 players as the total number of people logged in per server. The fact that the top PVP and PVE servers hit low status this week is just... yeah Carbine needs to combine everything to 1 PVP and 1 PVE servers or up that megaserver tech real fast unless they are planning to announce that they are going F2P as well. Attunements needs to be fixed ASAP as well.
Dang, 13 players during prime time? That's less than a lot of multiplayer games out there.
I guess the majority of that server's population already transferred or outright quit.
and one of those is a level 1 with a random bunch of letters as a name.
These are US servers and screen shot was taken at 7 pm.
Mother of God...
Wow this is pretty rough. The fact that the top PVP and PVE servers have now hit low pop status. I know this was posted in the official forums, but people need to understand that at the moment Carbine is leaving one "official" thread open regarding anything that has to do with population issues; all others will be closed.
The search /who command is pretty limited since it only returns 50 players in the search result, but it can be tailored if you search using only letter. Doing a search from A to Z will give a much clearer picture on how the population looks like in a particular server and add them up. It is the same exact method used to tally up FFXIV server populations but the limit goes up to 200 instead.
Rowsdower is one of the least populated servers currently (if not the lowest) and you can get a survey simply by doing a server-wide search instead. In this case the server has somewhere between 10 and 20 people online in the entire server during primetime.
/snip
All the other NA servers except for the top PVP and PVE servers hit around 100 players and sometimes as low as 50 players as the total number of people logged in per server. The fact that the top PVP and PVE servers hit low status this week is just... yeah Carbine needs to combine everything to 1 PVP and 1 PVE servers or up that megaserver tech real fast unless they are planning to announce that they are going F2P as well. Attunements needs to be fixed ASAP as well.
Dang, 13 players during prime time? That's less than a lot of multiplayer games out there.
I guess the majority of that server's population already transferred or outright quit.
and one of those is a level 1 with a random bunch of letters as a name.
LOL, I hadn't noticed that guy! Guess he's either a free trial, or someone who's really lazy when it comes to names. (or a "bank" alt if that game warrants having those)
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
I really wanted to love this game I was so hyped for it before release and come release date was so excited but well a month after I wasn't playing anymore I still cant nail exactly the problem but I just wasn't having fun and was finding it a chore to log in I always play as healers and have tried all available in wildstar and didn't find any of them fun frustrating and annoying is the best I can do about then.
A game that looked like it was going to be so enjoyable turned out to be the most boring game I have played in a few years.
Honestly the reason I quit was that the combat was taking a horrible toll on my shoulder and elbow joints. It was simply too much ,they need to tone the action stuff down.
Would the game have been more successful without the hyperactive, action combat? That's what made me quit, not the concern of having to find a raid group.
Originally posted by MightyUnclean Would the game have been more successful without the hyperactive, action combat? That's what made me quit, not the concern of having to find a raid group.
Do you know what genuinely was the final straw for me. I was minding my own business questing, when for the 200th time that day some time trial started (entirely unwanted and uninitiated by me) and a clock appeared in the corner of my screen and started counting down and flashing in the most irritatingly distracting manner. I tried to ignore it, but then for the 200th time that day FAILED appeared in huge red letters across my screen. How could I fail? I didn't even want to do the fucking quest but it was forced upon me, and even then I chose not to partake. It had been building up for a while and there were several reasons, but that was the point I quit out and cancelled my subscription.
Depends when you look at a game. You can find any game with "Low" numbers during off hours. Pergo I'm on is still very full and crowded so I've never seen any issues with population.
dunno why there is so much discussion/philosophizing in this thread.
its just the way these things work. this means they are about to roll out their PLANNED F2P conversion, now that they maximized how much money they could out of the 1st wave of customers (unless they try to squeeze out a paid-for expansion before then).
LATHER. RINSE. REPEAT.
this is just the standard cycle of the standard char progression focused MMO.
Comments
A lot of the comments about that on this thread remind me of what this guy wrong a while ago:
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
Indeed, but I just thought I would take the doom and gloom to new levels.
In fact I will ratchet it up a little more. Since NCSoft are unlikely to fund a rebuild (particularly given the absence of a proven IP) then surely the only option is to cut their losses and shut it down?
You kid, but it's not like NCSoft doesn't have a proven track record of putting down games that underperformed... Tabula Rasa, Auto Assault, City of Heroes, and that mecha game I can't recall the name of... Exteel or something?
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
your point is still a very sound one i might add tho.At least i can blame my purchase on my room mate...yep thats my excuse!
I was only half joking. I think all of the games you mentioned got at least 18 months though? Exteel, I forgot all about that, hadn't even noticed it had been shut down.
City of Heroes was the only one that was around for long. I doubt any of the others lived to see their 18th month birthday.
I did a quick Google and found this article: http://mmohuts.com/editorials/the-biggest-mmorpg-flops
Both TR and Auto Assault are on it. Looks like they are somewere around the 18 months mark, give or take a bit.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
There Is Always Hope!
I would no question say wildstar's future looks really bad solely because of ncsoft.it's an mmo changes can always be made,publishers are not gonna throw money away tho to wait for you to become profitable tho.
I love me some ESO SON! :P seriously i do!
I think some of the arguments used are a bit flawed, but based on the screenshots its fair to say that Wildstar may well be in trouble retention wise, but, rather than exemplifying ESO as a contrast, i would suggest that ESO is much in the same situation, there is as of yet, no evidence to suggest otherwise, but the games redeeming features is that firstly, its not an overly cartoonified game, which imo is an issue with Wildstar, but the graphics at least in ESO are far better, and secondly, that the mega server technology used means that even though the game has a low population, it is not as readily apparent as all that happens is the number of instances outside of cyrodiil is reduced to compensate, the only telling thing about it is that the campaigns in Cyrodiil are in much the same situation as the servers on Wildstar, and i have no reason to disbelieve the screenshots that have been posted either.
Rather than suggest this is a problem with subscription based games though, i think its more of a case that each game has issues in terms of gameplay, particularly end game as is highlighted by the lack of willingness to join the raiding in Wildstar, and for the lack of participation in the PVP in ESO, both games imo would have done well to concentrate more on the basic gameplay, and concentrated more on the PVE experience for the casual player, by the sound of it, both games have failed pretty badly at this, coincidentally, its something that WoW does really well, SW;TOR's content also is pretty good in terms of the PVE, though i think the end game in that game even, could use a lot of work and is probably no better than either ESO or Wildstar.
For the record i don't think ESO or Wildstar would benefit from going F2P, i think the underlying issues need to be addressed first, for me that means ESO has more going for it, just because i like the graphics better than the 'heavily stylised' cartoon graphics, which i totally abhor.
Yep. When your game starts struggling, NCSoft's the last publisher you want to have as your overlord.
I'm pretty sure Carbine's devs must be dealing with some crazy high stress levels at the moment.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I saw this coming long before launch.
I said many times that 40-man raiding is going to flop! Flop hard! It's just a too darn pain and way too time consuming to get 40 people together. Let alone make them work together, without jumping to eachother's throat's after each inevitable wipe.
Carbine has been fooled by the tiny, extremely vocal, minority. Convincing them 40man hardcore RAID'ing is the thing!
And now the reality has sunk in, it's going to bankrupt them.
It's very sad really. As it's too late now for them to turn it around and overhaul the entire endgame.
Except for FFXIV:ARR (SE has very deep Pockets), you just don't get a second chance anymore these days. The market is way too saturated.
I agree with Keith regarding review sites. The metacritic score for Wildstar is 82; all this tells me is that these reviews were written long before the initial veneer wore off and the core mechanics shone through, i.e. far too early to have any meaning. I think these reviewers were blinded by all the flashing text and urgent timers.
Most reviews and the pre-release hype articles on sites such as this are overwhelmingly positive where a little objectivity (or at least presenting an alternative viewpoint) would serve the site's users much better. I think the player response to WS certainly shows that a little more objectivity is required.
personally i find most mmo reviews to be a total joke,they make for a good laugh for me tho.I'd rather watch a favorite streamer play the game i would get more info out of that.
Wow this is pretty rough. The fact that the top PVP and PVE servers have now hit low pop status. I know this was posted in the official forums, but people need to understand that at the moment Carbine is leaving one "official" thread open regarding anything that has to do with population issues; all others will be closed.
https://forums.wildstar-online.com/forums/index.php?/topic/110601-okay-they-are-looking-into-server-pop-issue/
The search /who command is pretty limited since it only returns 50 players in the search result, but it can be tailored if you search using only letter. Doing a search from A to Z will give a much clearer picture on how the population looks like in a particular server and add them up. It is the same exact method used to tally up FFXIV server populations but the limit goes up to 200 instead.
Rowsdower is one of the least populated servers currently (if not the lowest) and you can get a survey simply by doing a server-wide search instead. In this case the server has somewhere between 10 and 20 people online in the entire server during primetime.
All the other NA servers except for the top PVP and PVE servers hit around 100 players and sometimes as low as 50 players as the total number of people logged in per server. The fact that the top PVP and PVE servers hit low status this week is just... yeah Carbine needs to combine everything to 1 PVP and 1 PVE servers or up that megaserver tech real fast unless they are planning to announce that they are going F2P as well. Attunements needs to be fixed ASAP as well.
a Lot of really good points,as someone who enjoys ESO and supports the game mostly due to how the dev team does things compared to the other games. no question the issues that you mention with ESO definitely exist. Also agree that it's never about the sub it's about what a player expects in exchange for that sub an all players have vastly different expectations.
Everyone is entitled to there own opinion but no mmorpg has ever offered me the PVE experience ESO has,but on the other end of that grouping is a major issue in the game.I'm partially biased due to my solo nature,but for me eso offers me more for my sub than most games do.
An don't even get me started on WoW lol The day someone proves to me that WoW is enjoyable outside of its raid scene i would gladly sub to it! So as far as i'm concerned wildstar is no surprise to me cause i feel exactly the same about WoW.
But at the end of the day i'm paying for a service i dont care how shiny or dull your product is,what i wanna know is what are you as a company gonna do to keep it shiny or polish it up so its shiny.
That means just as much to me as if I can enjoy your product to begin with!
Dang, 13 players during prime time? That's less than a lot of multiplayer games out there.
I guess the majority of that server's population already transferred or outright quit.
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
and one of those is a level 1 with a random bunch of letters as a name.
LOL, I hadn't noticed that guy! Guess he's either a free trial, or someone who's really lazy when it comes to names. (or a "bank" alt if that game warrants having those)
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I really wanted to love this game I was so hyped for it before release and come release date was so excited but well a month after I wasn't playing anymore I still cant nail exactly the problem but I just wasn't having fun and was finding it a chore to log in I always play as healers and have tried all available in wildstar and didn't find any of them fun frustrating and annoying is the best I can do about then.
A game that looked like it was going to be so enjoyable turned out to be the most boring game I have played in a few years.
Do you know what genuinely was the final straw for me. I was minding my own business questing, when for the 200th time that day some time trial started (entirely unwanted and uninitiated by me) and a clock appeared in the corner of my screen and started counting down and flashing in the most irritatingly distracting manner. I tried to ignore it, but then for the 200th time that day FAILED appeared in huge red letters across my screen. How could I fail? I didn't even want to do the fucking quest but it was forced upon me, and even then I chose not to partake. It had been building up for a while and there were several reasons, but that was the point I quit out and cancelled my subscription.
dunno why there is so much discussion/philosophizing in this thread.
its just the way these things work. this means they are about to roll out their PLANNED F2P conversion, now that they maximized how much money they could out of the 1st wave of customers (unless they try to squeeze out a paid-for expansion before then).
LATHER. RINSE. REPEAT.
this is just the standard cycle of the standard char progression focused MMO.
nothing to see here.
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Corpus Callosum
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