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FFA pvp is a misleading description.
Lustmord
Member UncommonPosts: 1,114
I'd like to talk about FFA: "Free For All" pvp.
A lot of people are turned off by this idea, but it's really an inaccurate description. Let's look at the games that claim to be "FFA". Darkfall is a good example, but also upcoming Albion and Das Tal.
These games are not actually "Free For All" PvP. You have the option to kill anyone and everyone on sight, but in reality, if you try to go alone you will fail.
These games are actually very similar to traditional faction-based PvP, or RvR. The only difference is that it leaves it up to the players to create their own factions with guilds and alliances. You are still free to attack people in your alliance, but if you do, you will likely be quickly ejected from it.
Take a look at Darkfalls current political map. Just as some examples, Death controls much of the eastern side of the mainland, ExE controls Rubaiyat, and Knights Templar and SKD are sharing Niphilheim. These are player-driven realms. If 2 ExE cross each other on Ruby, they won't kill each other on sight. They are part of a player driven faction. They are also free to form alliances with other guilds to bolster their faction.
For this reason, "FFA" would be a better acronym for "Friendly Fire (for) All". And is friendly fire a bad thing in a game? I would argue No. Friendly Fire rewards skill and teamwork, while punishing mistakes and poor execution.
Comments
I think free for all is a pretty accurate description. I can attack anyone anywhere. Whether I am successful or not is a different story and FFA does not give any indication of that.
Yes, but you must understand what I'm saying.
Darkfall, for example, is "FFA PVP" but in reality it's no different than player-generated RvR.
If you play a FFA game of Dodgeball, it means everyone is trying to hit everyone else, and the last man standing wins.
In reality, these games are not played that way. They form teams, and they work as teams. So FFA is better described as Friendly Fire (for) All.
Exactly, if you're not part of their player-generated Alliance. It's no different from RvR.
It's no different from WoW's open world pvp, except players aren't forced into arbitrary factions just because they pick the same race. Instead, they create their own factions.
For this reason, "FFA" is actually better, because you're not forced to be on "the same side" as someone you hate, just because you both picked the same faction 2 years ago. It's more liquid, and dynamic, and player-driven... and personalities actually matter.
Has anyone ever been ninja looted by someone on their same faction?
That shit doesn't fly in FFA. If you get caught in some shady looting practices in FFA, there are consequences because you're not protected by game mechanics that prevent you from being "friendly fired" upon.
Darkfall, for example, is "FFA PVP" but in reality it's no different than player-generated RvR.
If you play a FFA game of Dodgeball, it means everyone is trying to hit everyone else, and the last man standing wins.
In reality, these games are not played that way. They form teams, and they work as teams. So FFA is better described as Friendly Fire (for) All.
I'm not misunderstanding, I'm not agreeing. In Darkfall I can attack anyone anywhere, even my own faction, whether I choose to or not is irrelevant, I can do it, whether I am successful or not is irrelevant I can do it, which is what free for all means.
I self identify as a monkey.
I am suggesting that game developers not call themselves FFA, and instead call themselves Player Created Factions (PCF) with friendly fire enabled, and they would get both a more accurate acronym, and a more positive response.I think Age of Wushu is a good Free For All while also keeping that sense of community to have some protection from fellow school members. But you can still be hunter and prey unless you make friends.
I think comparing a FFA mmo with a FFA dodgeball is not fair because in FFA dodgeball you are only playing a match while in a FFA mmo you are living in that world and anyone can be that backstabber. They are FFA, but it doesnt mean it has to happen every time in the mmo.
I just find your point irrelevant, therefore the definition is just fine as is.
Which means you can attack anyone anywhere... which is what free for all means. All you are doing is describing the exact same situation with more words, and it is not a better explanation, you are literally just using more words.
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I think it would have the same effect as calling a piece of shit a nugget of processed food. Once people discover what it really is, they'll still have the same distaste for it when it was called a piece of shit.
Full Definition of FREE-FOR-ALL
: a competition, dispute, or fight open to all comers and usually with no rules : brawl; also : a chaotic situation resembling a free-for-all especially in lacking rules or structure <the press conference deteriorated into a free–for–all>
The reason I post this is because whenever a FFA game is mentioned on this site, there's always a poster or two posting with the misconception that FFA means they are alone and everyone will be out to kill them.
This is NOT the reality in a FFA MMO. While players do have the option to attack you, many are governed by rules set in place by player etiquette. IE, DO NOT ATTACK YOUR TEAM.
These players say they would never play a "Free For All" game, but are perfectly happy in a game where literally 50% of the server is designated to kill on sight based on arbitrary server rulesets.
In FFA games, such as Darkfall, EvE, Albion, and Das Tal, there is clear political structure.
The FFA misconception could be easily cleared up with a better definition on how these games are structured. Having friendly fire enabled does not mean the game is FFA, and you will get nowhere by playing alone in these games.
You know what grinds my gear? sandbox has kinda become same word as FFA lately.
I like PVP but everything starting to look same in sandbox genre.
Is there any sandbox MMO in future which is not going with FFA pvp and full loot?
May as well just have a list of player made factions you can join at character creation of which you can't attack. But wait, then players will complain about lack of freedom, but wait, they were most likely not gonna attack their own faction anyways.
I'd rather just take 50% of the server as allies instead of less than 1%.
A perfect example of the carebear misconception. Thank you.Which means you can attack anyone anywhere... which is what free for all means. All you are doing is describing the exact same situation with more words, and it is not a better explanation, you are literally just using more words.
Full Definition of FREE-FOR-ALL: a competition, dispute, or fight open to all comers and usually with no rules : brawl; also : a chaotic situation resembling a free-for-all especially in lacking rules or structure <the press conference deteriorated into a freeforall>
The reason I post this is because whenever a FFA game is mentioned on this site, there's always a poster or two posting with the misconception that FFA means they are alone and everyone will be out to kill them.
This is NOT the reality in a FFA MMO. While players do have the option to attack you, many are governed by rules set in place by player etiquette. IE, DO NOT ATTACK YOUR TEAM.
These players say they would never play a "Free For All" game, but are perfectly happy in a game where literally 50% of the server is designated to kill on sight based on arbitrary server rulesets.
In FFA games, such as Darkfall, EvE, Albion, and Das Tal, there is clear political structure.
The FFA misconception could be easily cleared up with a better definition on how these games are structured. Having friendly fire enabled does not mean the game is FFA, and you will get nowhere by playing alone in these games.
Naw. No one thinks they will be alone all the time. They do think that they can be attacked anywhere anytime whether they are alone or not. And they are right.
There is no misconception. It means you can be attacked anywhere anytime by anyone.
People do attack their own team. It happens quite frequently, by accident, on purpose, for disputes... so once again they can be attacked anywhere, anytime by anyone.
There is no misconception. You are again just using more words to describe the exact same situation.
A perfect example of the carebear misconception. Thank you.
There is no misconception. That has occurred multiple multiple multiple times. Anytime someone actually brings up adding rules to a game like darkfall the respone is, people complaining about the lack of freedom.
No misconception, just history.
Basically when people start talking about mmorpgs and go ffa pvp this ffa that, before they get to the point I know they don't really have much clue and usually I'm not wrong.
Usually it's used by people who don't like the whatever idea they have about what ffa pvp is. People who don't like non-consensual pvp consequently have no real experience and only theoretical knowledge at best (usually very little) but ofc try to fight for their righteous view and convince anyone how anything non-consensual is a huge deterant that has no place in a game.
"Player etiquette" in an FFA PvP game.
No such animal.
What if no guild will take me, Lustmord? Is it FFA then?
See, the problem with this kind of "guild-centric" order is that there's really no incentive for anyone to be inclusive of anyone else. Guilds are exclusive by definition, and they are under no obligation to take everyone. They are exclusive, private clubs that exist for the sake of their members.
And that's really a development problem of the first rank. Because the devs have got to give the person who throws down money on the service something enjoyable. When they can't get it, because the few powerguilds who run things get picky and snooty, there's a problem that is beyond the scope of a developer to correct.
You mention that these guilds enforce etiquette, but etiquette seems to encompass a lot of requirements that are, quite frankly, unrealistic...things like mandatory VOIP use, having a character built a certain way, in-depth interviews and so forth. Which makes me wonder if these FFA games you are describing are accessible to all, or merely a select few who are willing to sacrifice their autonomy just to satisfy a guild's demands.
A lot of this kind of thing can be mitigated by centering PvP around NPC factions. NPC factions allow players to organize themselves, while giving players incentives to work with others who may not game the same way they do.
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