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P2W, meaning?
This talk of P2W... Does it mean it's P2W in the sense that you kind of have to pay the monthly fee's worth to be on bar with everyone else, or does it mean the dude who puts hundreds of dollars into the game on monthly basis is the king? Because if it's the first, I have zero problems with that. People who try play a MMORPG without paying any money should be treated as second rate citizen, as far as I'm concerned. With latter I'm not ok at all, though.
Comments
Well said.
When the dust settles and everyone falls into their established status in the game, (if you could) Make a listing of the players ranked from most powerful to least. Then compare that list with how much they spend per month on the game. And if a connection can be made between the 2 lists, well, then it's Pay 2 Win, Of course no company is ever going to release that info, but they know it.
First one is p2p (pay to play), second is p2w ( pay to win, or more you pay more powerful or more advantage you have in game). Archeage is typical p2w. Some people will argue that p2w games are only if you can't get items that are in cash shop with in game playing, but that is rare, most game publisher are smarter and they give option to get cash shop items with long grind in game or you can take easier path and just buy them with real money. In typical p2w games like Runes of magic, Perfect World, Runescape... you can also buy items that they sell in cash shop with ingame money if you grind lot.
Second thing that make some game p2w is useful of items, for example, gw2 have cash shop but it is not p2w because nothing in their cash shop won't give any significant advantage over players who doesn't buy that item, they won't be better in pvp, they won't have any advantage in pve, there are only cosmetic item and some minor convenience items.
So what make Archeage typical p2w. Archeage is hard gear dependent game, that mean endgame gear is hard to get and it give significant advantage over lower quality gear. You will need months and months to get best gear. And best gear in game is crafted one that can be bought with gold from auction, or you can buy materials for it and craft it. Only limiting factor is labor points and ingame gold and both can be bought in cash shop. So more you spend in cash shop, you will have more gold or materials that you need for better gear in game and that will give you more advantage in game over players who don't spend so much.
Alright, thanks. Sound like it's going to be completely stupid, and what stops them from making it worse whenever they decide they need more money... what did I expect though.
Why companies don't get it? Why? Or is it me who doesn't get something? Why don't they put a cap on how much it's useful to spend money on advantageous items in a month through some mechanic(s). Then have the cosmetic and convenience stuff in addition to that where one can blow as much as money as they want. It can't be impossible for these people who create virtual worlds out of scratch, can it? It's logical, keep players happy etc. Especially in niche-ish game like this where not having P2W is valued by people.
I'm frustrated and done with this shit. This industry should be driven by game designers, artists, creative people, clever people... but what we have is simple minded business men that only understand more money in their pocket -> better, and coders, that only understand more efficient and convenient -> better. That's how it feels like.
Agreed, kind of. People who actually contribute to the hard working people behind the game should definitely be compensated in game more than someone who contributes nothing.
They are out to make a fast buck. I think everything is secondary to them at this point. I'm not even sure they care if their game is around for any length of time. Maybe just get in and out with as much money as possible as quick as possible (e.g. a get rich quick scheme).
Doesn't seem like there is much work being done on bugs. Everything being addressed seems to be focused on bringing as much revenue in as quickly as possible.
Those free players can also purchase themselves a noble title if they work hard enough though. (Since we can buy Patron status with in game currency)
ArcheAge is the new land of opportunities! It's even having its own landrush! :O
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
I like this, with one caveat. That's that there can never be a Cinderella story about a peasant becoming a King. That's a real big one in my book. Are the items in the game, which provide some advantage in the game, available through gameplay? Like if someone was investing 20 hours a day in the game, could they be the same status as someone who is playing an hour a day and just throwing $50 a month at it? If not, then I'd consider it P2W. If they can, it's not P2W, regardless what the drop rate is.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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What a nonsense. Trion has become a respected company. There are no signs of them stopping development on their first MMO Rift. Rift was praised for possibly the smoothest MMO launch ever, and their F2P model for that game, is seen as one of the best.
Since Rift they developed Glyph that they want to turn into a gaming platform, a la Steam. Revoking titles from their Glyph platform is clearly not on their minds. And Archeage will be there for a long time.
Having said that, their business model for Archeage can use some improvements, but certainly not for the reasons given by grimal.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
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Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
My vision would be like this...
True cheap-out F2player:
Always somewhat disadvantaged. One who play 4 hours a week, probably moreso. One who plays 14 hours a week, less so. One who play even more is able to be mostly on bar with someone who pays for advantageous items, excluding maybe housing stuff, and stuff like that, that is advatageous, but not directly in PvP power or so. Of course they miss out on paid convenience and cosmetic stuff completely.
P2player:
Has option to spend upto about 10-20 dollars a month to advantageous items, if they want to (can also buy nothing some months, this is the potential flexible beauty of the F2P system, people are less likely to stop playing completely when they have less money to spend, business men take notes). After that cap, they are simply not able to buy more, or the advantage of those purchases is game mechanically zero. This can be given gameplay value in such way that the variety of purchasable items effect different areas of the game and thus decision on what to spend monthly fee on has strategic depth, makes things interesting, not just flick Visa and bring on the standard set of goodies. Whales can still spend bazillion money on convenience and cosmetic items. I would allow $100 super special time limited mounts with +5% speed bonus, if other conditions are met.
That's the general idea, numbers can be changed. Am I the stupid one here? I don't think so, I have some experience playing and paying for these games, moreso than the business men who make these decisions. I haven't even played a proper F2P game. This is not my personal ideal system, I allow system like this and see how it makes business sense. Ideally I pay 15 or w/e dollar a month without any microtransactions even available, because of how real money is then pretty much completely isolated from in-game happenings, but I'm willing to settle for less pleasing system considering the state of the industry.
Meanwhile in Wildstar, ESO, and Final Fantasy free players can work hard to join the top of the "does not exist" ranks. Pretty silly logic getting shared on MMORPG today.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Way I see it, the Monthly Patron Fee is Pay to Play (which is fine in and of itself), with the "No patron at all" mode being basically "Slum Citizen/Freeloader" or something like that. The game was clearly intended to be paid for to really get into the meat of it (even without labor points, you need to subscribe for a farm plot, etc), so at best the "100% free" option is like, a shallow trial dip that just goes up to the max levels or... well, Slum Citizen/Freeloader.
So the Monthly Patron Fee is just P2P, not P2W. And the Free option is.... um... somewhere between Free Trial and Bum.
Where the P2W aspect comes in is Labor Potions (now with reduced cooldown so they have a significant effect rather than a somewhat insignicant one) and lottery boxes that can hold valuable useful items. At this point, it becomes P2W because some guys can dump thousands upon thousands of dollars and have a significant advantage over those other subscribers (we'll ignore the Free Trailers/Bums in this case). At this point, no matter how much you play, you'll lose to those guys who dump in thousands and also play a lot. And that's a pretty big thing in a game with competitive PvP, etc.
And there WILL be people who will dump thousands of dollars to do this. They're in every F2P (even the bad ones!). It's one of the reasons why companies are so willing to damage the integrity of their game with P2W features in the first place. The fact that a few subscribers will quit because they got owned by some guys who dumped thousands into the game means almost nothing from a business stand point because that business has some guys dumping thousands into their game.
The excuse that someone can get the best equipment without paying thousands won't work when/if the company is smart enough to always release a new tier of equipment that's technically obtainable without paying but in practice the "whales" will have it long before everyone else, and by the time everyone else has it, a NEW tier of equipment will come out, which will ensure that the whales are the top dogs and always on top of everyone else. At least, that's how the smart/savvy companies (one of which Trion probably is if what I hear about RIft is any indication) handle it in my experience.