AA is a sub game.. its nearly impossible to enjoy the game while f2p.. which is fine.. but if you buy patron status(sub) i would expect to enjoy the game at his fullest. but this not the case..
False, you can enjoy the game to it's fullest with patron. If by fullest you mean having infinite labor then that's a broken game you have there mate.
Mmmm, no you're wrong about this. Fullest extent in this case means you're not handicapped compared to somebody else. How can I be playing the game to its fullest but then somebody is paying extra to play it at its even fullerest?
People who pay more, will be more equal than others, Simples!
It think it is painfully obvious that this game is just a desperate attempt by Trion to cash grab off of a game that isn't even theirs. The game is set up to grab as much cash off of people who are willing to throw money away for a massive advantage out of the gate. By the time this game is a few months old people will notice the game has no end game at all. Once you have your land developed and your gear crafted, there is really nothing to do. This game has already tanked in korea, japan and russia, that is why it went "F2P" in the first place. This desperate move by Trion won't pay off in the long run though they just had to do something because all of their other games have failed badly.
It seems to me that you should go in with your eyes open. I will play AA with the intent of spending very little money.
For those who bought the founders packs, it was an unnecessary expense, so you can't really consider that in any way nefarious on the part of Trion. From what I've seen and heard, this is by no means the worst situation as far as these things go. The only game I played that really made it onerous was Star Wars and I simply stopped playing. That is always the option. Trion will adjust it's funding plan accordingly. I do not blame a company for trying maximize their profits. The market will reward or punish them accordingly.
.....). Therefore Trion is ALREADY making money yet implemented these P2W items anyways.
....
The new archeum chests and labor pot cooldown change have no impact at all on "P2W".
You could ALWAYS just buy PLEX with $, sell it on the AH, then buy archeum on the AH.
As for labor, it's WAY cheaper to just buy a second Patron account than chain-smoke pots. And there's no way Trion could stop multi-accounters even if they wanted to.
Originally posted by Ragnar1337 ....By the time this game is a few months old people will notice the game has no end game at all. Once you have your land developed and your gear crafted, there is really nothing to do. ....
Then why was it virtually impossible to find unclaimed land 4 months after the start of Alpha, despite the uber guilds all having elite, pre-progression nerf gear?
Originally posted by obake90 Who cares if its P2P ! They need to make money. If you are complaining so much, play a different game.
No one is complaining about paying for a subscription, people complain that you pay subscription but you are still limited by Labor Points.
----
Up until now subscription meant you get full access to the game, no restrictions. With AA it means: A little more access than F2P but we still restrict your progression with Labor Points so you are "encouraged" to buy Labor Potions every 4 hours.
Originally posted by SEANMCAD
I think everyone that had $150 to spend knew damn well that they werent really testing and that it was a money grab as 'early access' and where totally ok with that.
people are not as stupid as we seem to think.
I beg to differ:
Originally posted by SirBalin The game is fun, they aren't making me spend money, I'm choosing to as I enjoy it...gg
No one said they do, i wonder why you even felt the need to post this as it makes no sense, has nothing to do with the topic and is a very weird thing to say in general.
False, you can enjoy the game to it's fullest with patron. If by fullest you mean having infinite labor then that's a broken game you have there mate.
I have to ask how exactly would the game be broken by taking away a monetization method that allows for more crafting/gathering? That would imply every MMO ever made before was broken... I can't think of a single other game that uses a monetized method such as this. If anything a system like this sounds to me like it would ruin the concept of playing as a pure crafter.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I hate how everyone shits all over marketing. I don't see what's wrongn with companies promoting their products. Marketing is not to blame for peoples stupidity.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
False, you can enjoy the game to it's fullest with patron. If by fullest you mean having infinite labor then that's a broken game you have there mate.
I have to ask how exactly would the game be broken by taking away a monetization method that allows for more crafting/gathering? That would imply every MMO ever made before was broken... I can't think of a single other game that uses a monetized method such as this. If anything a system like this sounds to me like it would ruin the concept of playing as a pure crafter.
Monetization method? They made it become a monetization method; but before it went f2p it wasn't. If you develop the game around labor points and you take them away then you have a broken game right there.
You can buy a Mercedes of $40,000. Its going to be a piece of shit Mercedes, but it will still have the label.
You can also buy Kroger or Wal-Mart brand stuff. Its going to taste like garbage, but it cost less. You can buy a movie ticket, but you must pay for popcorn.
The real anger shouldn't be that they are charging for premiums. The anger should stem from what do they do with the extra revenue. That is one reason why I left WoW many years ago. They do nothing to reinvest in the game.
You could pay to beta test EQ, WoW, DAOC, SB and every other old MMORPG. You just bought your keys online. Most titles from WoW on you could buy early access in one way or another. This is not some new thing.
that's fine, I don't mind to pay a few bucks a month to see if this game is great or not. I get it, I've cheaped out on FFXIV ARR, subbing for bot accounts on other games, and just not wanted to pay 15 bucks a month in the past for other mmos, but I don't mind spending 15 bucks + maybe something on the side for the cash shop for a handful of months to see the pay off. its fine I get hours upon hours of gameplay out of it. so its cool
IMPORTANT: Please keep all replies to my posts about GAMING. Please no negative or backhanded comments directed at me personally. If you are going to post a reply that includes how you feel about me, please don't bother replying & just ignore my post instead. I'm on this forum to talk about GAMING. Thank you.
Let's compare to Wildstar or ESO, they sold an overpromised themepark and a broken game to millions. Millions paid a box price and perhaps an additional month of subscription for these games. They made huge initial sales. They profited from hype.
Archeage is released absolutely free of charge. You can get into the game, check out some of it's features, and if you like it you can subscribe or commit $ to the game. I hope more games utilize this business plan. Trion are putting a game out that is completely transparent, you can try before you buy.
Trion/XL in time will determine whether or not the LP potions was a good idea, if people have too much of an advantage then others will leave and players/subs will drop. For those who are skeptical, why don't you just see what happens in a few months?
Now Playing: Bless / Summoners War Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
Let's compare to Wildstar or ESO, they sold an overpromised themepark and a broken game to millions. Millions paid a box price and perhaps an additional month of subscription for these games. They made huge initial sales. They profited from hype.
Archeage is released absolutely free of charge. You can get into the game, check out some of it's features, and if you like it you can subscribe or commit $ to the game. I hope more games utilize this business plan. Trion are putting a game out that is completely transparent, you can try before you buy.
Trion/XL in time will determine whether or not the LP potions was a good idea, if people have too much of an advantage then others will leave and players/subs will drop. For those who are skeptical, why don't you just see what happens in a few months?
This is MMORPG.com, where knee-jerk reactions and the sky is falling is the norm. Oh they will see what happens like the rest of us, but in the meantime, they want to be the first to state why the game will fail so that they can quote it later for posterity.
This is an "I told you so" website... wait long enough and someone will say, "I told you so."
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
@ some point the community manager of trion said..
THE CASHSHOP WILL ONLY SELL COSMETIC STUFF. which is simply not the case
I'd like you to find this mysterious post. Because I completely call "bull" on that. No F2P game will ever only sell cosmetic stuff because it would make it's cash shop valueless to everyone except select RPers and the "Barbi Doll" complexers.
Cash shops are there in F2P games to help enhance gameplay that the Free just doesn't do. That's why they sell storage boxes, cosmetic changes, XP boosts, land tax agreements, and so on.
Sure there is a Patron option, but not everyone is going to go for it and may only want pieces of what a subscription provided (only a bit of extra XP gain this month and that's it, for example). And they're the target of the cash shop.
Get over the self-entitled egomania that is going on with the "this game is P2W, I should be able to get everything without having to pay for it!" mentality that is consuming it right now!
Archeage is released absolutely free of charge. You can get into the game, check out some of it's features, and if you like it you can subscribe or commit $ to the game. I hope more games utilize this business plan. Trion are putting a game out that is completely transparent, you can try before you buy.
Trion/XL in time will determine whether or not the LP potions was a good idea, if people have too much of an advantage then others will leave and players/subs will drop. For those who are skeptical, why don't you just see what happens in a few months?
Best post on the thread. I think that Trion will take heed and adjust things as time goes on. These particular cash shop changes have evoked a pretty extreme response from the player community and I have confidence that things will be tweaked.
Personally I bought the silver founder pack and am pretty happy. It gives me my headstart to grab my land, a couple of founder items, a month of sub, an improved glider, credits. Money well spent and I don't feel ripped off or that it was a cash grab. I tend to play a game and judge whether I'm having fun or not. These changes don't make me completely happy but I have confidence Trion will take note. Now if the archeum drops in game aren't adjusted and my only recourse is to buy the chests off the cash shop, I will be a very unhappy camper. At that point, Trion would probably lose my business.
Patience is a virtue. Some folks have very little of that me thinks.
Op - as you said Trion cannot make a change to a single word in game or a single price in the cash shop as only XL can touch the game code.
Every item in the cash shop including a 4 hour labor potion existed in Korea first - fact.
So why are you blaming Trion for changes they had nothing to do with?
XL obviously gets to enforce changes they want in any region.
Neither the Korean nor Russian versions have a archeum supply box, which can contain valuable crafting resources and perhaps more imporantly, regrade tokens which increase your chances of making top gear significantly.
These boxes are the reason for the recent uproar (although making labor pots even worse didn't help)
I'd like you to find this mysterious post. Because I completely call "bull" on that. No F2P game will ever only sell cosmetic stuff because it would make it's cash shop valueless to everyone except select RPers and the "Barbi Doll" complexers.
Path of Exile cash shop is 100% cosmetic with the exception of stash tabs (which you really don't need because you get a LOT of stash space for free, but some people just like to hold onto everything). The developers stated that so far they're making pretty good money.
Sometimes Path of Exile offers a "special deal" where you can pay them to allow you to design a unique item or a monster or have your character in the game as a monster. From what people who've brought that deal reported, it's very restrictive though and they VERY closely monistor or outright control what makes it into the end game anyways (though many people are still satisfied with their use of money that way anyways)
....that said, its' true that most cash shops do have SOMETHING in there that's pay-to-win. Doesn't change the fact that archeage is mostly subscription based (doing things without patron status is ridiculous in this game compared to most other F2P models) yet still has a cash shop with this sort of thing.
I don't have a link to the post either where Trion promised a purely cosmetic cash shop, but the official forums had lots and LOTS of people bringing it up (it's another reason so many people are mad). Go search for it there if you want to. I hate handing things out to people that they could easily look up, themselves.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Apparently people on these forums think Trion Worlds is a register charity and should provide them everything for free. They don't seem to realize that not only did Trion pay for the publishing rights in the West they have development time to pay for translating text from Korean to English and whatever other languages it will be released in before they even turn a profit.
Oh, no... Trion is Satan incarnate... they charge for everything... the world will end!!!!
This argument only works for a true F2P game (as opposed to a P2P game). I'm hoping you only posted this argument because you don't know that Archeage for the most part in practice is P2P (F2P has a TON of restrictions far beyond normal F2P games). Therefore Trion is ALREADY making money yet implemented these P2W items anyways.
If you knew that already yet posted this argument anyways... um, that's a fail. But I'm hoping you simply didn't know that Archeage for the most part is subscription based in practice. (now subscription based AND with P2W cash shop! The worse of both worlds!)
It's a standard F2P model. I've seen this type of system for years. A company offering bonuses for a monthly subscription in addition to their cash shop. I'm playing one like that right now. So once again, they don't care if you don't like it. If you don't like it you're not their target audience.
I never said it wasn't standard. It actually is standard. Wartune, League of Angels, Knights' Fable, a bajillion other shovelware and maybe not-shovel ware games... they all have that system. I never said no one else did.
Doesn't mean it isn't a greedy vile and unbalanced system though (all the games I listed above are P2W and very much so)
I also never said they cared. In fact, if you track my posts on the subject, I've stated multiple times that they don't care. It only takes one whale to make up for thousands of lost subscribers to this sort of thing, after all.
Doesn't mean it isn't a greedy vile and unbalanced system that's P2W, though.
If anything, as I've stated in other posts on the matter, it's a very good business decision. There's a reason why even shovel ware games make millions off the model. Again, doesn't mean it isn't greedy, vile, unbalanced, or not p2W.
Comments
People who pay more, will be more equal than others, Simples!
It seems to me that you should go in with your eyes open. I will play AA with the intent of spending very little money.
For those who bought the founders packs, it was an unnecessary expense, so you can't really consider that in any way nefarious on the part of Trion. From what I've seen and heard, this is by no means the worst situation as far as these things go. The only game I played that really made it onerous was Star Wars and I simply stopped playing. That is always the option. Trion will adjust it's funding plan accordingly. I do not blame a company for trying maximize their profits. The market will reward or punish them accordingly.
I self identify as a monkey.
The new archeum chests and labor pot cooldown change have no impact at all on "P2W".
You could ALWAYS just buy PLEX with $, sell it on the AH, then buy archeum on the AH.
As for labor, it's WAY cheaper to just buy a second Patron account than chain-smoke pots. And there's no way Trion could stop multi-accounters even if they wanted to.
Then why was it virtually impossible to find unclaimed land 4 months after the start of Alpha, despite the uber guilds all having elite, pre-progression nerf gear?
No one is complaining about paying for a subscription, people complain that you pay subscription but you are still limited by Labor Points.
----
Up until now subscription meant you get full access to the game, no restrictions. With AA it means: A little more access than F2P but we still restrict your progression with Labor Points so you are "encouraged" to buy Labor Potions every 4 hours.
I beg to differ:
No one said they do, i wonder why you even felt the need to post this as it makes no sense, has nothing to do with the topic and is a very weird thing to say in general.
I have to ask how exactly would the game be broken by taking away a monetization method that allows for more crafting/gathering? That would imply every MMO ever made before was broken... I can't think of a single other game that uses a monetized method such as this. If anything a system like this sounds to me like it would ruin the concept of playing as a pure crafter.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Monetization method? They made it become a monetization method; but before it went f2p it wasn't. If you develop the game around labor points and you take them away then you have a broken game right there.
You can buy a Mercedes of $40,000. Its going to be a piece of shit Mercedes, but it will still have the label.
You can also buy Kroger or Wal-Mart brand stuff. Its going to taste like garbage, but it cost less. You can buy a movie ticket, but you must pay for popcorn.
The real anger shouldn't be that they are charging for premiums. The anger should stem from what do they do with the extra revenue. That is one reason why I left WoW many years ago. They do nothing to reinvest in the game.
You could pay to beta test EQ, WoW, DAOC, SB and every other old MMORPG. You just bought your keys online. Most titles from WoW on you could buy early access in one way or another. This is not some new thing.
that's fine, I don't mind to pay a few bucks a month to see if this game is great or not. I get it, I've cheaped out on FFXIV ARR, subbing for bot accounts on other games, and just not wanted to pay 15 bucks a month in the past for other mmos, but I don't mind spending 15 bucks + maybe something on the side for the cash shop for a handful of months to see the pay off. its fine I get hours upon hours of gameplay out of it. so its cool
Let's compare to Wildstar or ESO, they sold an overpromised themepark and a broken game to millions. Millions paid a box price and perhaps an additional month of subscription for these games. They made huge initial sales. They profited from hype.
Archeage is released absolutely free of charge. You can get into the game, check out some of it's features, and if you like it you can subscribe or commit $ to the game. I hope more games utilize this business plan. Trion are putting a game out that is completely transparent, you can try before you buy.
Trion/XL in time will determine whether or not the LP potions was a good idea, if people have too much of an advantage then others will leave and players/subs will drop. For those who are skeptical, why don't you just see what happens in a few months?
Looking forward to: Crowfall / Lost Ark / Black Desert Mobile
This is MMORPG.com, where knee-jerk reactions and the sky is falling is the norm. Oh they will see what happens like the rest of us, but in the meantime, they want to be the first to state why the game will fail so that they can quote it later for posterity.
This is an "I told you so" website... wait long enough and someone will say, "I told you so."
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
I'd like you to find this mysterious post. Because I completely call "bull" on that. No F2P game will ever only sell cosmetic stuff because it would make it's cash shop valueless to everyone except select RPers and the "Barbi Doll" complexers.
Cash shops are there in F2P games to help enhance gameplay that the Free just doesn't do. That's why they sell storage boxes, cosmetic changes, XP boosts, land tax agreements, and so on.
Sure there is a Patron option, but not everyone is going to go for it and may only want pieces of what a subscription provided (only a bit of extra XP gain this month and that's it, for example). And they're the target of the cash shop.
Get over the self-entitled egomania that is going on with the "this game is P2W, I should be able to get everything without having to pay for it!" mentality that is consuming it right now!
Make the cashshop will only sell cosmetic stuff like GW 2 does, and all ppl will happy.
l2p
Best post on the thread. I think that Trion will take heed and adjust things as time goes on. These particular cash shop changes have evoked a pretty extreme response from the player community and I have confidence that things will be tweaked.
Personally I bought the silver founder pack and am pretty happy. It gives me my headstart to grab my land, a couple of founder items, a month of sub, an improved glider, credits. Money well spent and I don't feel ripped off or that it was a cash grab. I tend to play a game and judge whether I'm having fun or not. These changes don't make me completely happy but I have confidence Trion will take note. Now if the archeum drops in game aren't adjusted and my only recourse is to buy the chests off the cash shop, I will be a very unhappy camper. At that point, Trion would probably lose my business.
Patience is a virtue. Some folks have very little of that me thinks.
Neither the Korean nor Russian versions have a archeum supply box, which can contain valuable crafting resources and perhaps more imporantly, regrade tokens which increase your chances of making top gear significantly.
These boxes are the reason for the recent uproar (although making labor pots even worse didn't help)
Path of Exile cash shop is 100% cosmetic with the exception of stash tabs (which you really don't need because you get a LOT of stash space for free, but some people just like to hold onto everything). The developers stated that so far they're making pretty good money.
Sometimes Path of Exile offers a "special deal" where you can pay them to allow you to design a unique item or a monster or have your character in the game as a monster. From what people who've brought that deal reported, it's very restrictive though and they VERY closely monistor or outright control what makes it into the end game anyways (though many people are still satisfied with their use of money that way anyways)
....that said, its' true that most cash shops do have SOMETHING in there that's pay-to-win. Doesn't change the fact that archeage is mostly subscription based (doing things without patron status is ridiculous in this game compared to most other F2P models) yet still has a cash shop with this sort of thing.
I don't have a link to the post either where Trion promised a purely cosmetic cash shop, but the official forums had lots and LOTS of people bringing it up (it's another reason so many people are mad). Go search for it there if you want to. I hate handing things out to people that they could easily look up, themselves.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
You're just grasping at straws with that and you know it (as shown by you're "they're not major" comment)
I never said it wasn't standard. It actually is standard. Wartune, League of Angels, Knights' Fable, a bajillion other shovelware and maybe not-shovel ware games... they all have that system. I never said no one else did.
Doesn't mean it isn't a greedy vile and unbalanced system though (all the games I listed above are P2W and very much so)
I also never said they cared. In fact, if you track my posts on the subject, I've stated multiple times that they don't care. It only takes one whale to make up for thousands of lost subscribers to this sort of thing, after all.
Doesn't mean it isn't a greedy vile and unbalanced system that's P2W, though.
If anything, as I've stated in other posts on the matter, it's a very good business decision. There's a reason why even shovel ware games make millions off the model. Again, doesn't mean it isn't greedy, vile, unbalanced, or not p2W.