- Being a non-patron directly put you at a disadvantage.
but
- Giving advantage to cash shop LP pot buyers over regular subscribers kill any incentive to subscribe.
solution? look for another game with better monetization system in place. Trion/XL seem to want to put their hands on people´s pockets on their own, regardless of player status (patron or not).
The monetization system from Korea doesnt work in the west. Trion knows that, but XL seem to want to push it anyway at the cost of their own game´s success, and Trion seems ok with that for some reason.
Originally posted by fivoroth You know what? It is me, the subscriber who only pays £9 a month that wins in your scenario. You know why? Because I spent £9 on the game and was still able to enjoy it without any restrictions whereas that guy spent like £1000-1200 on the game in a month. That means I win. I will have a spare £1191 which I can invest in my pension/shares or I can spend it on a holiday/new fancy toys or getting drunk in a club. In my book this is a clear win for me haha.
Actually it is a win - win situation. You are getting your money worth and (hopefully) he as well.
I'm not bothered that Trion has to earn money, alright, game is F2P but they have the sub option, that's fine with me. But to "force" subscribers, who are already paying the monthly price, to pay extra to get max efficiency, is just so fucking greedy. That coupled with lies that people actually wanted this (that survey lol), makes me furious.
Welcome to the new MMO genre.
Pre-alpha, closed/open Alpha, closed/open Beta... none of it has meaning anymore.
Choose any of the above, then pay for acces, and on top of that, subscriptions and cash shops.
There's even an upcoming Kickstarter MMO that's going to charge monthly just to stay in the alpha/beta.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Your math is wrong OP. You get 6 character slots but only 4 per server. Unless this has changed in the last 2 weeks, I haven't logged on in awhile (suffering burn out and this is the last game I want that happening in). So you would have to get another account, which I guess is also a form of P2W.
I am pretty happy I decided to give this one a pass. I was actually thinking of getting back into Defiance and buying the DLC but after reading a lot of this and reading about Defiance server issues I may just say goodbye completely to Trion and their products.
Up to you, but labor pot cooldowns have near zero impact on P2W. Dedicated players have always had the option of aggregating labor much more efficiently using extra accounts. It's just not sexy enough for the trolls.
Originally posted by hammarus Your math is wrong OP. You get 6 character slots but only 4 per server. Unless this has changed in the last 2 weeks, I haven't logged on in awhile (suffering burn out and this is the last game I want that happening in). So you would have to get another account, which I guess is also a form of P2W.Meh. I don't care.
I've given the game a shot and the character limit still say's the same, the game seem's ok, not bad to play but I only got a little way in a like you, i'd rather wait til this is released to go nuts on it, then when 0LP, try one of the other mmo's I have. ;-)
As touched upon by various members in other threads, with 3rd party sites now, EVERY mmo is basically P2W, it's just how much that person want's to risk a ban etc.
I've paid pre-order with almost every mmo I have played and in that we get the headstart, sometimes beta access, items etc.
Now they have figured this out (and with so many now playing mmo's) they offer Founders etc, you get the same, plus more time to just play the game (depending how much you spend), more items, in-game cash etc
I'm not for or against them really, I'd rather they didn't charge so much and I might use one hehe
They need to identify who is in it to test & who is in it to just play though, this has been a problem for along time, so you can see why they basically said 'give us xxx cash and you can play not test'
Look. Trion clearly knows all this. They also must realize that this business model will just accelerate the problem that all FFA PvP MMOs have had, which is the griefers will do everything possible to secure their early advantages so that they can spend the rest of the useful lifetime of the game griefing those at a serious disadvantage. That's not an anti-pvp statement, it's just a statement of fact.
So, what is the most logical conclusion? Trion has decided to milk the flash in the pan for absolutely as much as they can before the game implodes. They aren't in it for long term, growing success, they are in it for the short term cash grab.
The game has a lot of cool features, many of which will probably make it into Trion games down the road, but this game is just meant to provide a short term cash infusion, rather than be their next big title.
I would have paid and played for at least a month or two if this wasn't so obvious to me. Sad thing is that a sandboxy game with these features probably could have been a long term success with some tweaks and a more fair business model. I think Trion passed on that potential for what must look like a more sure, quick turn around, bet.
It makes me laugh reading what some of you are writing. Saying you don't care about the labour potions, " those that want to spend, can spend what ever they want." That's where you need to understand, there are A LOT of people that are going to pay to take advantage of the labour thingy. And before you know it, 2-3 weeks in to the game, the economy is broken. ArcheAge is a waste of time, it only exist to grab your money for a fake satisfaction, like most F2P / P2W titles out there. Only Blizzard got it right with WoW, and since Devs / Pubs are too lazy and know they'll never get WoW numbers, they try to extract as much cash as possible with a P2W cash shop. So yeah, it makes sense if a F2P MMO generates more cash than WoW, but that's only because a dozen of retards are putting 20K$+ a year on the cash shop. Think I'm joking? Just look at Atlantica Online, some have put over 100K$ since release, yes 100,000 (5 zeroes) . By the looks of it, ArcheAge is aiming to be the next Atlantica Online, a game where there are actually more gold bots than legit players.
So yeah, to conclude, I'm really sick and tired of all these Eastern MMO garbage ruining our Western Devs, but we never know with EQ:N, might be our only hope on something decent to good until 2020.
Xp boosts and items like LP pots do hurt the games. Consider the replay ability of today's mmorpgs. The game will only be relevant for a brief window, then the next best thing comes along. One only has a brief window of time to actually be relevant, if you don't buy exp potions, lp pots, or whatever other "indirect" pay to win gizmo from the cash shops, your just never going to impact the game like you really want to, you're always going to be lagging behind. It doesn't bother me that AA, is using an "indirect" pay 2 win model, I know we all have a choice to play or not, but I felt the need to reply here because some of you don't have the right perspective with respect to how a cash shop can mask a pay to win model, the essence of time, and just how something so minute as exp potions have ramifications on the betterment of gaming.
Originally posted by lugal I don't see how having more LP's means you win. So what if somebody has more. They can't win anything with it. Let the suckers spend money on anything beyond a sub for a game. Then just enjoy what the game offers you.
In Korea the game is dying because single guilds dominate multiple servers through LP in both economy and pvp. If they ruined a server they move on to the next server to dominate that by spending more money for LP.
Once you are in the so called end-game and you want to start the main end game activity which is delivering trade packs you realize that you will never get as much as a single trade pack delivered because one guild dominates the sea and trade ports, then you will understand how LP gives you an advantage.
You won't get access to the crafting stations in PvP zones to craft your high level gear either because said dominating guild will kill anyone trying to get there.
At that point the game is over for you since you won't progress any more and never get even close to BiS. You can just pack up your things and move on. There is NOTHING you can do about it.
The LP system is pay 2 win no matter how you like to spin it.
Originally posted by lugal I don't see how having more LP's means you win. So what if somebody has more. They can't win anything with it. Let the suckers spend money on anything beyond a sub for a game. Then just enjoy what the game offers you.
In Korea the game is dying because single guilds dominate multiple servers through LP in both economy and pvp. If they ruined a server they move on to the next server to dominate that by spending more money for LP.
Once you are in the so called end-game and you want to start the main end game activity which is delivering trade packs you realize that you will never get as much as a single trade pack delivered because one guild dominates the sea and trade ports, then you will understand how LP gives you an advantage.
You won't get access to the crafting stations in PvP zones to craft your high level gear either because said dominating guild will kill anyone trying to get there.
At that point the game is over for you since you won't progress any more and never get even close to BiS. You can just pack up your things and move on. There is NOTHING you can do about it.
The LP system is pay 2 win no matter how you like to spin it.
I might be wrong, but they I assume would have a good control over the higher end of crafting for a short period of time.
mining would be about the only craft you could master with straight labor. Materials will limit the rest of the trade skills. OP is just blowing smoke up the asses of the ignorant. LP pots are not cost effective
Save yourself money and just buy 100 patron accounts for less money and get 144,000 LP a day offline
I am probably wrong about this, but I don't think the korean version has a sub option. There is no LP regen, but a weekly LP reset, and the cash shop sells LP pots. I have no idea if there is a CD on them or not, and I have no idea if LP costs are adjusted lower in the korean version to account for the lack of regen.
Even with differences between the two regions I still think the same will happen over here. It may just happen at a slower rate.
Your math is wrong OP. You get 6 character slots but only 4 per server. Unless this has changed in the last 2 weeks, I haven't logged on in awhile (suffering burn out and this is the last game I want that happening in). So you would have to get another account, which I guess is also a form of P2W.
Meh. I don't care.
It isnt my math, but labour is account wide, you can just make 2 on a different server it doesnt matter.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Originally posted by lugal I don't see how having more LP's means you win. So what if somebody has more. They can't win anything with it. Let the suckers spend money on anything beyond a sub for a game. Then just enjoy what the game offers you.
In Korea the game is dying because single guilds dominate multiple servers through LP in both economy and pvp. If they ruined a server they move on to the next server to dominate that by spending more money for LP.
Once you are in the so called end-game and you want to start the main end game activity which is delivering trade packs you realize that you will never get as much as a single trade pack delivered because one guild dominates the sea and trade ports, then you will understand how LP gives you an advantage.
You won't get access to the crafting stations in PvP zones to craft your high level gear either because said dominating guild will kill anyone trying to get there.
At that point the game is over for you since you won't progress any more and never get even close to BiS. You can just pack up your things and move on. There is NOTHING you can do about it.
The LP system is pay 2 win no matter how you like to spin it.
Could you explain to me how this wouldn't happen, if they were to remove the LP system altogether?
Oh sorry I see your point, you are all just upset because it wasn't done by the natural order of things, instead of money.
I get it, sorry.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Comments
It is a double edge sword.
- Being a non-patron directly put you at a disadvantage.
but
- Giving advantage to cash shop LP pot buyers over regular subscribers kill any incentive to subscribe.
solution? look for another game with better monetization system in place. Trion/XL seem to want to put their hands on people´s pockets on their own, regardless of player status (patron or not).
The monetization system from Korea doesnt work in the west. Trion knows that, but XL seem to want to push it anyway at the cost of their own game´s success, and Trion seems ok with that for some reason.
oh well.....
Actually it is a win - win situation. You are getting your money worth and (hopefully) he as well.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Your math is wrong OP. You get 6 character slots but only 4 per server. Unless this has changed in the last 2 weeks, I haven't logged on in awhile (suffering burn out and this is the last game I want that happening in). So you would have to get another account, which I guess is also a form of P2W.
Meh. I don't care.
Up to you, but labor pot cooldowns have near zero impact on P2W. Dedicated players have always had the option of aggregating labor much more efficiently using extra accounts. It's just not sexy enough for the trolls.
I've given the game a shot and the character limit still say's the same, the game seem's ok, not bad to play but I only got a little way in a like you, i'd rather wait til this is released to go nuts on it, then when 0LP, try one of the other mmo's I have. ;-)
As touched upon by various members in other threads, with 3rd party sites now, EVERY mmo is basically P2W, it's just how much that person want's to risk a ban etc.
I've paid pre-order with almost every mmo I have played and in that we get the headstart, sometimes beta access, items etc.
Now they have figured this out (and with so many now playing mmo's) they offer Founders etc, you get the same, plus more time to just play the game (depending how much you spend), more items, in-game cash etc
I'm not for or against them really, I'd rather they didn't charge so much and I might use one hehe
They need to identify who is in it to test & who is in it to just play though, this has been a problem for along time, so you can see why they basically said 'give us xxx cash and you can play not test'
Look. Trion clearly knows all this. They also must realize that this business model will just accelerate the problem that all FFA PvP MMOs have had, which is the griefers will do everything possible to secure their early advantages so that they can spend the rest of the useful lifetime of the game griefing those at a serious disadvantage. That's not an anti-pvp statement, it's just a statement of fact.
So, what is the most logical conclusion? Trion has decided to milk the flash in the pan for absolutely as much as they can before the game implodes. They aren't in it for long term, growing success, they are in it for the short term cash grab.
The game has a lot of cool features, many of which will probably make it into Trion games down the road, but this game is just meant to provide a short term cash infusion, rather than be their next big title.
I would have paid and played for at least a month or two if this wasn't so obvious to me. Sad thing is that a sandboxy game with these features probably could have been a long term success with some tweaks and a more fair business model. I think Trion passed on that potential for what must look like a more sure, quick turn around, bet.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
It makes me laugh reading what some of you are writing. Saying you don't care about the labour potions, " those that want to spend, can spend what ever they want." That's where you need to understand, there are A LOT of people that are going to pay to take advantage of the labour thingy. And before you know it, 2-3 weeks in to the game, the economy is broken. ArcheAge is a waste of time, it only exist to grab your money for a fake satisfaction, like most F2P / P2W titles out there. Only Blizzard got it right with WoW, and since Devs / Pubs are too lazy and know they'll never get WoW numbers, they try to extract as much cash as possible with a P2W cash shop. So yeah, it makes sense if a F2P MMO generates more cash than WoW, but that's only because a dozen of retards are putting 20K$+ a year on the cash shop. Think I'm joking? Just look at Atlantica Online, some have put over 100K$ since release, yes 100,000 (5 zeroes) . By the looks of it, ArcheAge is aiming to be the next Atlantica Online, a game where there are actually more gold bots than legit players.
So yeah, to conclude, I'm really sick and tired of all these Eastern MMO garbage ruining our Western Devs, but we never know with EQ:N, might be our only hope on something decent to good until 2020.
In Korea the game is dying because single guilds dominate multiple servers through LP in both economy and pvp. If they ruined a server they move on to the next server to dominate that by spending more money for LP.
Once you are in the so called end-game and you want to start the main end game activity which is delivering trade packs you realize that you will never get as much as a single trade pack delivered because one guild dominates the sea and trade ports, then you will understand how LP gives you an advantage.
You won't get access to the crafting stations in PvP zones to craft your high level gear either because said dominating guild will kill anyone trying to get there.
At that point the game is over for you since you won't progress any more and never get even close to BiS. You can just pack up your things and move on. There is NOTHING you can do about it.
The LP system is pay 2 win no matter how you like to spin it.
And that's with $15/mo?
mining would be about the only craft you could master with straight labor. Materials will limit the rest of the trade skills. OP is just blowing smoke up the asses of the ignorant. LP pots are not cost effective
Save yourself money and just buy 100 patron accounts for less money and get 144,000 LP a day offline
I miss DAoC
I am probably wrong about this, but I don't think the korean version has a sub option. There is no LP regen, but a weekly LP reset, and the cash shop sells LP pots. I have no idea if there is a CD on them or not, and I have no idea if LP costs are adjusted lower in the korean version to account for the lack of regen.
Even with differences between the two regions I still think the same will happen over here. It may just happen at a slower rate.
It isnt my math, but labour is account wide, you can just make 2 on a different server it doesnt matter.
Quotations Those Who make peaceful resolutions impossible, make violent resolutions inevitable. John F. Kennedy
Life... is the shit that happens while you wait for moments that never come - Lester Freeman
Lie to no one. If there 's somebody close to you, you'll ruin it with a lie. If they're a stranger, who the fuck are they you gotta lie to them? - Willy Nelson
Could you explain to me how this wouldn't happen, if they were to remove the LP system altogether?
Oh sorry I see your point, you are all just upset because it wasn't done by the natural order of things, instead of money.
I get it, sorry.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!