This debate takes place for every game, Fanboys vs. disappointed gamers. It's always the same, and degenerates into worthlesss chaos.
My questions for both sides are these, So what? Yes it is undisputable that if you pay you get an advantage. It took a boatload of money to create this game, isn't the publisher entitled to recoup it's money, and perhaps even (say it isn't so) make a profit?
You completely miss the point here that this whole thing is destroying the economy.
I don't know, if you want to spend $1500 a month to be #1, I don't mind. I'll still only pay $15 a month and maybe just maybe, kick your butt in PvP.
What makes you think that all rich players are bad in PvP?
Equally skilled, Cash Shop player VS normal player, the former will win 100% of fights.
I fail to see this logic. In an actual pay to win game, you are correct. Some guy buys the "Sword of Uberdeath +10" for $100 and wins against free players. But tell me again how a cash shop player is supposed to throw his LP at a non cash shop player and win?
Anyone on the internet that claims Labor is pay to win has never actually played Archeage. Labor is used for crafting and non combat related activities, at no time will it give you an advantage in PVP. Im an unemployed Vet that plays 16 hours a day, I do have the advantage in PVP. My 16 hours a day play times will trump all your money any day of the week. Think up a new argument and try again.
Originally posted by Ludwik As was said in the other thread,
Someone's always going to be at the top of the food chain.
It will either be the p2w whales or the live-in-mom's basement crowd.
One scenario the game gets proper funding. Other scenario the game gets no funding.
As someone who's not going to be at the top of the food chain, I'd much rather a whale be there than a no-lifer.
A p2w game is better than no game.
p2w and no game at all are not the only two options.
Originally posted by Wylf
This debate takes place for every game, Fanboys vs. disappointed gamers. It's always the same, and degenerates into worthlesss chaos.
My questions for both sides are these, So what? Yes it is undisputable that if you pay you get an advantage. It took a boatload of money to create this game, isn't the publisher entitled to recoup it's money, and perhaps even (say it isn't so) make a profit?
Sure they are. However, as customers, we're entitled to voice our opinions on their monetization systems. The need for a company to make money doesn't excuse any possible method for doing so. It is only the acceptance of customers which excuses an attempt to make money. In this case, it seems that very many customers are not willing to excuse Trion for what they are doing.
I do not see the point in this? Most of the time, end game pvp will be with a group, so easy solution is just to make friends with people who want to dump endless amounts of money on the game. Sucks to be you if you're anti-social.
Sure they are. However, as customers, we're entitled to voice our opinions on their monetization systems. The need for a company to make money doesn't excuse any possible method for doing so. It is only the acceptance of customers which excuses an attempt to make money. In this case, it seems that very many customers are not willing to excuse Trion for what they are doing.
Who says they're all customers ? From the stories being told most of these people don't sound like they even have an account let alone ever tried the game. All these "what if someone did this" arguments don't mean much once the game launches and the real customers are actually in the game not on some forum making up bull shit scenarios.
Exactly how are you supposed to burn 30 000+ labor points a day?
Seems to me this whole argument is irrelevant. It may need some fine-tuning, but if the system allows the *average* patron to play and not worry too much about LP... then who cares?
From what I've heard is that you can sell those 30k(?)purchased labor pots for in game gold, then use that in game gold to buy anything.
You completely miss the point here that this whole thing is destroying the economy.
I don't know, if you want to spend $1500 a month to be #1, I don't mind. I'll still only pay $15 a month and maybe just maybe, kick your butt in PvP.
What makes you think that all rich players are bad in PvP?
Equally skilled, Cash Shop player VS normal player, the former will win 100% of fights.
I fail to see this logic. In an actual pay to win game, you are correct. Some guy buys the "Sword of Uberdeath +10" for $100 and wins against free players. But tell me again how a cash shop player is supposed to throw his LP at a non cash shop player and win?
Anyone on the internet that claims Labor is pay to win has never actually played Archeage. Labor is used for crafting and non combat related activities, at no time will it give you an advantage in PVP. Im an unemployed Vet that plays 16 hours a day, I do have the advantage in PVP. My 16 hours a day play times will trump all your money any day of the week. Think up a new argument and try again.
P2W? I don't know , but defo a massive advantage.
It seems the best gear is made from crafting and cost a shit load of LP to make, the person chugging potion will be able to make the gear much more easily and quicker than those who don't. Buy a ton load of the creates and success rate boosts for good measure and his or guild is laughing. When players who don't use the shop try to PvP their asses will be handed to them because the CS player has already made top gear while also having had more chances and more oppertuniteys to min/max his gear, this is much worse when looking at big guild because they will have dedicated chars for crafting that will max out the labor on crafting/gathering only.
IF there are some crazy folks who can burn all that LP and buy all other items from the shop to make so manny great items a day then goodluck to them.. it would cost a crazy amount of money and thats good for the game, its also just a temp gain they would get for within a month the rest of the server has reached the same gear buy spending no money at all
Originally posted by Eladi IF there are some crazy folks who can burn all that LP and buy all other items from the shop to make so manny great items a day then goodluck to them.. it would cost a crazy amount of money and thats good for the game, its also just a temp gain they would get for within a month the rest of the server has reached the same gear buy spending no money at all
Dude, its not just first month. There will be content patches and new gear to farm / buy in cash shop.
P2W players = always top of the food chain. Everyone else is just filler.
Sure they are. However, as customers, we're entitled to voice our opinions on their monetization systems. The need for a company to make money doesn't excuse any possible method for doing so. It is only the acceptance of customers which excuses an attempt to make money. In this case, it seems that very many customers are not willing to excuse Trion for what they are doing.
Who says they're all customers ? From the stories being told most of these people don't sound like they even have an account let alone ever tried the game. All these "what if someone did this" arguments don't mean much once the game launches and the real customers are actually in the game not on some forum making up bull shit scenarios.
How on God's green earth can you read what I wrote and then decide to argue against the idea that ALL customers are upset about this? How does that even work?
Judging by the threads here, on reddit and in the official forums there are a great many people who do not like this.
Sure they are. However, as customers, we're entitled to voice our opinions on their monetization systems. The need for a company to make money doesn't excuse any possible method for doing so. It is only the acceptance of customers which excuses an attempt to make money. In this case, it seems that very many customers are not willing to excuse Trion for what they are doing.
Who says they're all customers ? From the stories being told most of these people don't sound like they even have an account let alone ever tried the game. All these "what if someone did this" arguments don't mean much once the game launches and the real customers are actually in the game not on some forum making up bull shit scenarios.
How on God's green earth can you read what I wrote and then decide to argue against the idea that ALL customers are upset about this? How does that even work?
Judging by the threads here, on reddit and in the official forums there are a great many people who do not like this.
If on September 16th the servers are empty, then clearly people are upset. If however, they are full and have queues... all these complaints are nothing more than rants without substance. They may dislike something, doesn't mean they will stop playing. And in the end, that's all they care about... whether people are playing.
Originally posted by Albatroes I do not see the point in this? Most of the time, end game pvp will be with a group, so easy solution is just to make friends with people who want to dump endless amounts of money on the game. Sucks to be you if you're anti-social.
What if you just want to be social with people who aren't whales? I'm not even sure if Archeage will be P2W (I hope not) but it's amusing to see ridiculous arguments like this ready to justify it even if it does go in that direction.
Sure they are. However, as customers, we're entitled to voice our opinions on their monetization systems. The need for a company to make money doesn't excuse any possible method for doing so. It is only the acceptance of customers which excuses an attempt to make money. In this case, it seems that very many customers are not willing to excuse Trion for what they are doing.
Who says they're all customers ? From the stories being told most of these people don't sound like they even have an account let alone ever tried the game. All these "what if someone did this" arguments don't mean much once the game launches and the real customers are actually in the game not on some forum making up bull shit scenarios.
How on God's green earth can you read what I wrote and then decide to argue against the idea that ALL customers are upset about this? How does that even work?
Judging by the threads here, on reddit and in the official forums there are a great many people who do not like this.
If on September 16th the servers are empty, then clearly people are upset. If however, they are full and have queues... all these complaints are nothing more than rants without substance. They may dislike something, doesn't mean they will stop playing. And in the end, that's all they care about... whether people are playing.
The open beta does not have queues so i doubt release will have it since Founders already get a head start and are sitting at end game with best gear through LP pots when everyone else joins.
Sure they are. However, as customers, we're entitled to voice our opinions on their monetization systems. The need for a company to make money doesn't excuse any possible method for doing so. It is only the acceptance of customers which excuses an attempt to make money. In this case, it seems that very many customers are not willing to excuse Trion for what they are doing.
Who says they're all customers ? From the stories being told most of these people don't sound like they even have an account let alone ever tried the game. All these "what if someone did this" arguments don't mean much once the game launches and the real customers are actually in the game not on some forum making up bull shit scenarios.
How on God's green earth can you read what I wrote and then decide to argue against the idea that ALL customers are upset about this? How does that even work?
Judging by the threads here, on reddit and in the official forums there are a great many people who do not like this.
If on September 16th the servers are empty, then clearly people are upset. If however, they are full and have queues... all these complaints are nothing more than rants without substance. They may dislike something, doesn't mean they will stop playing. And in the end, that's all they care about... whether people are playing.
The open beta does not have queues so i doubt release will have it since Founders already get a head start and are sitting at end game with best gear through LP pots when everyone else joins.
Sure they are. However, as customers, we're entitled to voice our opinions on their monetization systems. The need for a company to make money doesn't excuse any possible method for doing so. It is only the acceptance of customers which excuses an attempt to make money. In this case, it seems that very many customers are not willing to excuse Trion for what they are doing.
Who says they're all customers ? From the stories being told most of these people don't sound like they even have an account let alone ever tried the game. All these "what if someone did this" arguments don't mean much once the game launches and the real customers are actually in the game not on some forum making up bull shit scenarios.
How on God's green earth can you read what I wrote and then decide to argue against the idea that ALL customers are upset about this? How does that even work?
Judging by the threads here, on reddit and in the official forums there are a great many people who do not like this.
If on September 16th the servers are empty, then clearly people are upset. If however, they are full and have queues... all these complaints are nothing more than rants without substance. They may dislike something, doesn't mean they will stop playing. And in the end, that's all they care about... whether people are playing.
The open beta does not have queues so i doubt release will have it since Founders already get a head start and are sitting at end game with best gear through LP pots when everyone else joins.
You obviously don't know how the game works and/or haven't played very much. No one will have all the materials for end game stuff in 4 days. Even with pots. This statement is ridiculous and you are just perpetuating false ideas.
1. No queues since first day and only the first hour. Not even worth mentioning. No queues on the Weekend so far. Pretty smooth soft release i have to give them that.
2. Yes you can easily be max level and have gear if you spend in the cash shop. 4 days and 100k LP per whale is more than enough. You just have no idea how the top guilds have planned ahead. They are racing for domination and have strict plans for everyone in the guild. Piece of cake really.
----
PS: Since no one is actually able to dispute the fact that the game is 90% Pay2Win i consider this thread closed. I shall be waiting for the fallout threads after the release and the inevitable fading of game in a couple of months.
Sure they are. However, as customers, we're entitled to voice our opinions on their monetization systems. The need for a company to make money doesn't excuse any possible method for doing so. It is only the acceptance of customers which excuses an attempt to make money. In this case, it seems that very many customers are not willing to excuse Trion for what they are doing.
Who says they're all customers ? From the stories being told most of these people don't sound like they even have an account let alone ever tried the game. All these "what if someone did this" arguments don't mean much once the game launches and the real customers are actually in the game not on some forum making up bull shit scenarios.
How on God's green earth can you read what I wrote and then decide to argue against the idea that ALL customers are upset about this? How does that even work?
Judging by the threads here, on reddit and in the official forums there are a great many people who do not like this.
If on September 16th the servers are empty, then clearly people are upset. If however, they are full and have queues... all these complaints are nothing more than rants without substance. They may dislike something, doesn't mean they will stop playing. And in the end, that's all they care about... whether people are playing.
The open beta does not have queues so i doubt release will have it since Founders already get a head start and are sitting at end game with best gear through LP pots when everyone else joins.
you mean to tell me a game thats been hyped a ton, has ad banners everywhere has 6 whole servers full during an open beta...color me shocked sirs....just shocked.
a decent game with some potential being crapped on by devs who need to fill their pockets the shitty way.
Sure they are. However, as customers, we're entitled to voice our opinions on their monetization systems. The need for a company to make money doesn't excuse any possible method for doing so. It is only the acceptance of customers which excuses an attempt to make money. In this case, it seems that very many customers are not willing to excuse Trion for what they are doing.
Who says they're all customers ? From the stories being told most of these people don't sound like they even have an account let alone ever tried the game. All these "what if someone did this" arguments don't mean much once the game launches and the real customers are actually in the game not on some forum making up bull shit scenarios.
How on God's green earth can you read what I wrote and then decide to argue against the idea that ALL customers are upset about this? How does that even work?
Judging by the threads here, on reddit and in the official forums there are a great many people who do not like this.
If on September 16th the servers are empty, then clearly people are upset. If however, they are full and have queues... all these complaints are nothing more than rants without substance. They may dislike something, doesn't mean they will stop playing. And in the end, that's all they care about... whether people are playing.
The open beta does not have queues so i doubt release will have it since Founders already get a head start and are sitting at end game with best gear through LP pots when everyone else joins.
Why is it that the P2W Armageddon trolls never respond when someone points out you could get six times as much alt labor per dollar by just buying extra accounts?
Probably because they'd have nothing to complain about, since everyone knows publishers can't effectively stop people from buying multiple accounts anyway.
Originally posted by mcrippins As a person who will have ~50k credits starting out - I can promise you with 100% certainty that I will not be purchasing even a single labor potion.
Exactly, I'll be saving all of my credits for 5 extra months of subscription.
I love how people think having all these labor points = tons of crafting. Have you played this game? Where are all these crafting mats coming from?
I played on a Russian server for 4 months. The server I joined was out for 6 months. I was F2P. Russia has much more P2W in the cash shop then we do. How did I do? I PVPed just fine. There was no OMG P2W getting one shot by everyone. 98% of the people complaining have no idea what they are talking about. So people can buy labor pots? SO CAN YOU. Buy them from the AH just like the rest of the people. Stop making up bullshit.
If you don't like the way the game works DON'T PLAY.
Comments
This debate takes place for every game, Fanboys vs. disappointed gamers. It's always the same, and degenerates into worthlesss chaos.
My questions for both sides are these, So what? Yes it is undisputable that if you pay you get an advantage. It took a boatload of money to create this game, isn't the publisher entitled to recoup it's money, and perhaps even (say it isn't so) make a profit?
I fail to see this logic. In an actual pay to win game, you are correct. Some guy buys the "Sword of Uberdeath +10" for $100 and wins against free players. But tell me again how a cash shop player is supposed to throw his LP at a non cash shop player and win?
Anyone on the internet that claims Labor is pay to win has never actually played Archeage. Labor is used for crafting and non combat related activities, at no time will it give you an advantage in PVP. Im an unemployed Vet that plays 16 hours a day, I do have the advantage in PVP. My 16 hours a day play times will trump all your money any day of the week. Think up a new argument and try again.
p2w and no game at all are not the only two options.
Sure they are. However, as customers, we're entitled to voice our opinions on their monetization systems. The need for a company to make money doesn't excuse any possible method for doing so. It is only the acceptance of customers which excuses an attempt to make money. In this case, it seems that very many customers are not willing to excuse Trion for what they are doing.
Who says they're all customers ? From the stories being told most of these people don't sound like they even have an account let alone ever tried the game. All these "what if someone did this" arguments don't mean much once the game launches and the real customers are actually in the game not on some forum making up bull shit scenarios.
From what I've heard is that you can sell those 30k(?)purchased labor pots for in game gold, then use that in game gold to buy anything.
P2W? I don't know , but defo a massive advantage.
It seems the best gear is made from crafting and cost a shit load of LP to make, the person chugging potion will be able to make the gear much more easily and quicker than those who don't. Buy a ton load of the creates and success rate boosts for good measure and his or guild is laughing. When players who don't use the shop try to PvP their asses will be handed to them because the CS player has already made top gear while also having had more chances and more oppertuniteys to min/max his gear, this is much worse when looking at big guild because they will have dedicated chars for crafting that will max out the labor on crafting/gathering only.
Dude, its not just first month. There will be content patches and new gear to farm / buy in cash shop.
P2W players = always top of the food chain. Everyone else is just filler.
How on God's green earth can you read what I wrote and then decide to argue against the idea that ALL customers are upset about this? How does that even work?
Judging by the threads here, on reddit and in the official forums there are a great many people who do not like this.
If on September 16th the servers are empty, then clearly people are upset. If however, they are full and have queues... all these complaints are nothing more than rants without substance. They may dislike something, doesn't mean they will stop playing. And in the end, that's all they care about... whether people are playing.
What if you just want to be social with people who aren't whales? I'm not even sure if Archeage will be P2W (I hope not) but it's amusing to see ridiculous arguments like this ready to justify it even if it does go in that direction.
The open beta does not have queues so i doubt release will have it since Founders already get a head start and are sitting at end game with best gear through LP pots when everyone else joins.
There have been...
I think it may be time to add more servers
No New Servers?!?
Not Enough Servers At Launch
POLL: Do we need more servers?
You obviously don't know how the game works and/or haven't played very much. No one will have all the materials for end game stuff in 4 days. Even with pots. This statement is ridiculous and you are just perpetuating false ideas.
1. No queues since first day and only the first hour. Not even worth mentioning. No queues on the Weekend so far. Pretty smooth soft release i have to give them that.
2. Yes you can easily be max level and have gear if you spend in the cash shop. 4 days and 100k LP per whale is more than enough. You just have no idea how the top guilds have planned ahead. They are racing for domination and have strict plans for everyone in the guild. Piece of cake really.
----
PS: Since no one is actually able to dispute the fact that the game is 90% Pay2Win i consider this thread closed. I shall be waiting for the fallout threads after the release and the inevitable fading of game in a couple of months.
----
ArchAge: Pay - Craft - Win
Lots of people are not even interested to play this beta since they are polishing their plans for release.
And.. I expect all the "streamers" guilds back as well.
Next thing: if you want labor cheap sub with multiple accounts don't spend on labor potions.
Create multiple accounts, buy on each and everyone of them if the cool down is too high on these pots and you are willing to rush for cash.
There'll be always a solution.
Feel free to partake in this survey made by players: http://forums.archeagegame.com/showthread.php?37125-Give-your-feedback-on-Reddit-Survey-(CASH-SHOP)
Can confirm it was the same for EU servers.
you mean to tell me a game thats been hyped a ton, has ad banners everywhere has 6 whole servers full during an open beta...color me shocked sirs....just shocked.
a decent game with some potential being crapped on by devs who need to fill their pockets the shitty way.
For the first hour then crickets, nothing the whole weekend so far.
Why is it that the P2W Armageddon trolls never respond when someone points out you could get six times as much alt labor per dollar by just buying extra accounts?
Probably because they'd have nothing to complain about, since everyone knows publishers can't effectively stop people from buying multiple accounts anyway.
Exactly, I'll be saving all of my credits for 5 extra months of subscription.
I love how people think having all these labor points = tons of crafting. Have you played this game? Where are all these crafting mats coming from?
I played on a Russian server for 4 months. The server I joined was out for 6 months. I was F2P. Russia has much more P2W in the cash shop then we do. How did I do? I PVPed just fine. There was no OMG P2W getting one shot by everyone. 98% of the people complaining have no idea what they are talking about. So people can buy labor pots? SO CAN YOU. Buy them from the AH just like the rest of the people. Stop making up bullshit.
If you don't like the way the game works DON'T PLAY.